Foreign Exchanges

[jimgriff]

When on a foreign exchange, has any bit of kit such as Helmet, Mask, "Maewest" seemed to be better or worse than what you were issued with in the RAF?

Did the bayonet oxy mask fittings seem better?

Was the ejection seat more comfortable?

Was the survival gear as good?

Was the growbag a better design? Why?

Anything stand out as brilliant? Anything bad?

just interested?

[Hueymeister]

Why? What's on the offing?

[jimgriff]

I was reading an article in the 2000 RAF yearbook about RAF pilots doing exchanges and vice versa.
I jut wondered if anyone has sat in a "foreign" cockpit and thought..."wow, thats a nice way of........."

more interested in the kit that the a/c.

Was it more comfy, cumbersome etc?
Did it strike you as answering something that had niggled you for a while?

The USN flotation gear is very fifferent from the RAF issue waistcoat lifejacket. Is it better? Is the RAF personal dingy better that the others out there?

Not a loaded question, just interested.

[Tarnished]

Jim,

Having done USAF and USN flights as well as my RAF experience I would say its horses for courses. There will always be a compromise between comfort, mobility and utility when viewed against protection and function. Some examples: the USAF/USN flying helemets and masks are much less cumbersome than the equivalent UK counterpart, BUT the level of protection afforded by the UK helemet (in accordance with the specification) is greater, both in terms on impact and blast loads ie the UK is qualified to more rigorous standards. Duty of care appears to have a higher weighting in UK considerations than in other areas.

Your average UK ADV pilot wouldn't bat an eyelid over 2 or 3 layers of thermal protection under and immersion suit under the g-suit and LSJ. But you try taking a pilot from the southern parts of europe and puting him in the same kit then that's a different story. The North Sea being a somewhat more hostile environment than the Spanish plain (with or without the rain!).

What is impressive from my experience it the level of protection afforded by the Typhoon kit, whilst still providing IMHO acceptable comfort and mobility. Equally the helmet has managed to incorporate all the electronic gubbins while maintaining or exceeding the current blast and impact requirements while increasing the mass by only about 100g over the current in service bone domes.

However, pilots being human (contrary to popular belief) like what they are familiar with, and don't like change - I've got my lucky flying gloves and no matter how many holes they have or how much oil is ingrained into them I don't want to change them!

Watching the US aviators strapping into the JSF cockpit rig with a Brit harness (as opposed to the US standard torso harness) is a joy to behold. Both do the same job, but in a different manner, you'd swear it was cryptonite to Superman.

Time to get back on my head.

T

[L J R]

...and yet I disagree in that I think nearly all of the US gear that I've utilised run rings around the UK kit of 'equivalent' requirements.



as stated earlier - horses for courses.


By the way - only 800 hrs UK kit and 5000hrs+ US equipment.


The UK flying socks are the superior breed, as are the finger torches when compare to US kit..

[Bravo2]

At the risk of being controversial by actually saying something positive about our fine force I think our kit is damn good... certainly compared to the Canadians' (which I believe is largely US). US helmets seem to be pretty flimsy.. I don't think they would stay on too long in an ejection. And the number of times other aircrew are sniffing around for our gloves..... speaks for itself.

[Trumpet_trousers]

...check your hotmail account!

[Tarnished]

TT

I'll have to leave work to do that........ well if I must.

T

[PPRuNeUser0172]

Brit kit seems better generally, the Candian helmet has very poor visibility for looking up and behind you ( not that I am ever defensive!) and the mask is a little cumbersome. The US style flying suits are better though as are the summer/winter jackets we get issued.

[jimgriff]

I saw some video of comparitive testing done with the Russian K36 ejection seat in a wind tunnel in the USA using the US helmet and mask and everytime the helmet seemed to come adrift or off. The Russian hemet had small colletted holes in the front of it to relieve this problem and it seemed to work well.

My set of USAF/N/MC nomex flight gloves always seem to cause my skin to itch to!!!:confused:

However, I think the current US survival kits in the seats are better than ours.

But what the hell do I know?:8

[wiggy]

IMHO ( based on a couple of thousand hours in UK kit and about a couple of hours in the US stuff, all a lifetime ago) I reckon the UK Sea survival kit (LSJ/Immersion suit/dinghy) was streets ahead of the US equivalent, but the US kit better in the dry land/escape and evasion situation.

As someone said, horses for courses.

[Al-Berr]

OZ/US helmets are indeed rubbish - flimsy and you need to use ear plugs. The plus is they are lightweight.

I believe our NBC kit is quite highly regarded.

[Hueymeister]

The US style helmet I wear at work is frankly awful...noise attenuation is terrible, and hang goggles on it and it wanders all over the place unless you practically garrotte yourself with the neck strap. The US style-based flying suit is comfortable, and looks good, but needs knee pads and I wouldn't trust it in front of a hair dryer let alone a flash fire. The leather jacket looks great, but definitely no good below 10 deg OAT. The US style nomex gloves are too thick...I've just got too used to wearing the british light weight leather gloves....which are referred to by my host nation as frog fa**y leather..or words to that effect!

My opinion after 3 years abroad is that we have some great kit, and some not-so great kit, but it is in the main better than the stuff I currently use.

[SSSETOWTF]

I'll take UK kit in just about every department over the stuff I've used with the USMC & USN.

Helmets - yes they're light, but as has already been said, when you put NVGs on they float all over your head. You have to wear foamies underneath cause it's useless for noise attenuation. And when you drop the mask you have to attach it to your LSJ with a press stud on the end of one of the adjusting straps - so you have to re-adjust it every time you fly. Not a huge deal, but I just think the UK mask is more comfortable and convenient.

The US torso harness is a TOTAL nosebleed. You feel like you're trussed up like a gimp, and you can't just decide one day that you want to wear a jacket under it, or an immersion suit etc - it has to be tweaked every time the weather changes.

The survival aids in peacetime are about comparable. But when you go on ops, the US don't give you much more than a gun and a couple of maps - no CSW for them. Still, I was just glad to have a -112B with a battery in my LSJ by about week 3 of OIF.

I've flown on a bunch of US seats and apart from the F-18, they seem to be noticeably worse than the UK ones. The AV8B seat/parachute/harness combo has killed a couple of people who've pulled the handle in the heart of the envelope. Good old Martin-Baker at home has saved a number of guys who jumped well outside the envelope. And as for the seats in things like the T-2 and T-38.... You spend most of your time in the circuit in a T-38 outside the envelope. If you push any negative g in the T-2 you fly out of the seat, the dinghy pack flies up too and can get stuck so that you end up sitting on top of it half in and half out of the seat pan. They insist on blowing the canopy off in one piece, which needs airflow, so even though the seat may be zero-zero, it ends up 0-70 or something cause otherwise the canopy goes straight up and you do a 'Goose'. And while I'm ranting, the T-2 command eject handle has a position where: back seat pulls handle, both seats go but front seat pulls, nothing happens. And some instructors like to fly around like that ie front seater has no ability to eject either himself or both of you. Explain the logic behind that one...

The USMC don't even have dinghies with covers on yet - you end up in a WW2 style rubber ring. What's that all about? Especially when they're quite happy to transpac without an MPA.

Caveat all of the above with the fact I'm still in the US so everything in the UK is rose-tinted.

[ctj]

Currently on exchange in oz. The flying suits are much more comfortable and lightweight, ideal for the climate around here and the mid/far east..Not tried it in the cooler climes of europe though. Prefer the UK kit in most other areas, gloves, maywest etc

[antipodean alligator]

I guess that the proof of the pudding is in the eating.....I'm still wearing my Brit Aircrew boots Mk 1A? (The ones that came out 2-3 yrs ago in 69 different sizes) and my leather flying gloves....Managed to scrounge another pair on Flag recently!

As far as the rest is concerned I found the Tonka G Pants just that - PANTS!

The day helmet was bloody marvellous compared to the HGU-55Ps that we fly with down here (USAF Crap!) but the old NVG helmet looked and felt as if it was designed for the Meteor or Javelin!

As for growbags the Pommie ones are perfect for Happy hour but the USAF/Aussie ones are generally better for their real purpose IMHO (except in the sandpit where the bag o'spuds style of the Brit suit was looser & more comfortable).

I'd wager that the K1W1s probably have the perfect mix - They tend to have 1960's Pommie stuff and a smattering of our/spam kit!!!

[saudipc-9]

Dirty,
Are you talking about the NFTC helmet or the one the guys are wearing on the Hornet Sqns? If fitted properly, which mine is, I don't have too much of a problem with it (NFTC). However, it did take me quite a number of trips to the helmet shop to get it just right. Seems the parts bought now are much more generic or one size fits all in an attempt to reduce costs! Typical!! As I flew with British kit for the past five years in Saudi I will say noise reduction is better with the UK helmet but it was far too heavy.

Hueymeister,
Kneepads? Do you spend alot of time on your knees:p ?

[Pontius Navigator]

The Kiwi pomme kit, made in NZ, went with the aircraft. The Strikemaster guys dressed UK and the A4 guys in the next shed dressed US. Different flying boots even.

That way neither aircraft maker could blame the wrong type of flying kit for the jet not working.

As far as helmets go, a friend of mine had a freiend who punched out of a Fulcrum. Got MDC splatter and blinded in one eye.

[PPRuNeUser0172]

Saudi

talking about the one from the cool pool.;) Agree that it is nice and light but quite restrictive as my head seems to turn around inside the helmet!

[Flak Jacket]

Deliverence is right the US suits look good (nicely tailored around the waist.....For the ladies!) but they don't have pockets! and the heel pockets are too small.