Gapan - Pilot Aptitude Assessment

[VFE]

Hi folks,
I was just wondering if any of you are sitting the GAPAN tests at RAF Cranwell on Thursday 15th March?
I will be there so if anyone else is then it would be nice to know!

Also, does anyone have any tips/advice for these tests aimed at self-sponsorers? Is the day just as outlined in the info pack or are there any little surprises that one could practice for? I hear computer games are a help.

Thanks, VFE.

[This message has been edited by VFE (edited 09 March 2001).]

[Final Destination]

Hi VFE, I sat the GAPAN/RAF tests last october and I passed with quite a high score and I didn't have any practice and it was my first time ever doing anything like that.
If you would like anymore info send me an e-mail and I will give you all the knowledge you will need.Cheers FD

[TimC]

I've just been through OASC for raf selection. I wasn't selected http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif. I have some info on the aptitudes on my website www.timc.clara.net (http://www.timc.clara.net) though there probably isnt any more info on there than youve already received. Personally I thought the test for pilot was fairly easy (I got an excellent score, but I wasn't applying for pilot!). Just know what the different instuments mean and the digit recall one gets quite hard towards the end, was about 15 digits at the end!

Good Luck! :)

[VFE]

Thanks FD and TimC for your replies.

Anyone else?

Regards, VFE.

[Lauraskybaby]

I did the RAF aptitude tests once when I was 16 and failed and then again last year and passed. The first time, I did the whole lot - for all four branches and was offered a 6th form schol in ATC - not quite what I had in mind!

The digit recall one can be quite hard but I got the best result on that. Just remember the digits in smaller chunks - say them over quickly in your head in a tune - like for 7 digits, remember the first 3 and then the last four. Makes it much, much easier than being confused by a big bunch of numbers!

I remember being pretty baffled the first time - but if you have a clear head when you go in, it helps. They're not particularly hard and I didn't do much preperation - but I did practice quite a lot for the numerical questions which you can work out on paper. That helped. But hey, best of luck. What is this GAPAN thing you're going for?

[hasell]

Hey VFE,
I was thinking of attending the GAPAN tests on the 15th but cannot make it. Would appreciate any feedback on what you thought of the whole experience once you've been.

Cheers mate!

btw. good luck.

[VFE]

No probs hasell.

[hasell]

VFE,
Incidently are these the same GAPAN tests that where sent out with other literature by pilotassist.com (or pilotassist.co.uk) and the cost of doing the tests being £150?

[VFE]

That is correct hasell.

[FartPower]

Have many of you gone to Gapan for the Aptitude Tests?

I am thinking of going along since I am thinking about raising some serious cash to pay for the big dream to come true.

I know some people have probably been there through Airline Sponsorship testing procedures, but has anyone gone there under their own will and been through the personal grilling? If so do you think it was worth the 150 squid ??

------------------
to crab, or not to crab....?

[VFE]

FartPower,
I went to the one in March and it was an interesting day. You get a debrief afterwards with a volenteer pilot of the Guild.
Worth £150? Not much to spend when you consider the amounts you are looking at for a CPL is it? Having said that, never be put off your dream by a poor result - as the Guild say themselves, it is only an indication and nobody will find out what you scored when it comes to job hunting after training.

If you want anymore info then just drop me an e-mail.

All the best, VFE.

[Autofly]

Just to add to what VFE said, you get a nice certificate to put in your CV/file/whatever. I did them as part of the Airtours selection last year (fell as the last hurdle) and now I put it down on all the airline applications I make. I agree that it is well worth it.

good luck

AF

[Dizzy]

I went in March. I thoroughly enjoyed the half-day.
I was very sheepish about stumping up the £150 for an hour and a half of tests, but that said, the interview by the Guild members afterwards was worth the £150 without the tests?????
The Guild members were extremely helpful and very approachable types.
My verdict - do it! I will be spending tons of money as a result, but hey - you only live once and life has no rehearsal.
It could save you a stack of money in the long run - or boost your confidence if you get the result you're looking for.
Either way - best of luck Buddy!

[FartPower]

Thanx for the advice - I think I will have my application in by the end of the day!

I attended a few of the aptitude tests last year, but didnt get any further. It was a bit demoralising, with no real indications of why I didnt get through - but I am sure you have also been through this.

But with every flying lesson (PPL) I am more convinced that this is what I want to do...

[15500.00]

Hi all
If anyone recieved any sponsorships last year from GAPAN please reply and let me know how you are getting on and what you hope to do next.

Many Thanks

[Mustbee]

Hi

Has anybody on this Forum undertaken the GAPAN Aptitude Tests (brief details on the GAPAN web-site for those who don't know about them)?

If you have, can you please give me some information on what they involve.

Regards

Mustbee

[VFE]

It involves exactly what GAPAN say it involves. There are no extra tests sprung on you and it is all relatively informal and relaxed.
I would say the best way to prepare is to get into the habbit of remembering numbers and play plenty of arcade/computer games to improve your reaction and co-ordination skills.

Good luck,

VFE.

[This message has been edited by VFE (edited 11 June 2001).]

[Mustbee]

Thanks for the advice VFE. I'm off to the Arcade!

[VFE]

Bummer huh? :)

[Lightning ace]

Completed the test in May. Got a high average.
You've just ot to practice remembering numbers and good coordination. Be relaxed and alert.
Also please try to remember this is RAF Cranwell, not a youth club. So dress with respect no shell suits please. It just lets us civies down. There is usally a group a RAF hopefuls there as well. All is three piece suits etc.

And DON'T turn up late.

[lone eagle]

Anyone got any idea about how many places there are avialable on this GAPAN scheme (presuming we are talking about the ATPL scheme) and how many people apply?

Cheers,

LE.

[WGW]

One, Lots.

[Autofly]

As far as I know there is only one place ...... dunno how many apply. Another thing to bear in mind is you can only do the GAPAN tests twice! Given that Airtours use them in their selection process too, which on do you apply for. I got down to final interview last year with Airtours and stuffed it up ...... with only one more go at the GAPAN tests and one place on the scheme, I know which one i'll be applying to again this year.

For everyones info, there's a good article in this months Flyer about the GAPAN tests. Worth standing in WH Smiths for 5 mins for anyhow.

Autofly

[Deputy Dog]

Has anyone failed the apps but still gone on to airling job ? I havn't done GAPAN test but I don't think it would be put off in the end if I failed.

Also, if you are able to get jar ppl + rt licence (in a reasonable amount of time), does that not suggest an aptitude for flying ??

[buster172]

I am attending the tests on the 19th, just wondered if any one here coming along ?

I dont think you can practice for them, you either have it or you dont, but can anyone offer any advice ? obviously I want to do the best I can.

Any info gratefully recieved.

[Mister Geezer]

Hi Buster!

Glad to hear you are off to the Gapan tests! Let me know how you get on.

All the best

Regards

MG :)

[Wor]

HI Buster172


I will be there as well, should be a fun time, met a couple of people recently at Pilot assist who sat it 2 months ago and say that you can't do much to get a better score, it is there to measure your potential, not experience!!! So all in the same boat. Know a couple of others who said they are going so worst case we can all have a beer afterwards!!! Ha Ha

Only thing I can think of to practice is the memory part when they put ever increasing series of numbers up for you to remember!!!

c u there

Wor

[buster172]

Thanks for the posts,

I have a friend who did the tests last time, he did really well so Im feeling the pressure already !

Wor, deffinately be up for a drink, I think Im going to need one. It's the first real step towards my goal after gaining my PPL, and Im looking forward to meeting fellow PPruners.

Hope to see you there, and good luck.

[skysoarer]

The GAPAN tests are now tuned to be around 96% accurate, so it'd be wise to do them just to satisfy your curiosity. I hope do be doing them in the next month to satisfy mine; they are generally accurate up until 150hrs experience when that does start to influence the result.

SS

[Polar_stereographic]

DD,

If the outcome of the tests makes no diference to you, save yourself the money and go and enjoy a couple of hours in the circuit with it.

I'm no great fan of these tests. As I understand it, if you can get through a ME IR without too much dificulty, you should be up to employment standards as I'm told it's probably the hardest hurdle to jump as far as raw ability is concerned.

Any one have diferent views on this?

PS

[BEagle]

More and more airline employers are showing interest in GAPAN's aptitude testing. The correlation between GAPAN and other methodologies is very high and if you do well at a GAPAN session, you should do well in the future.

But if you're really serious about an airline career, take the Class 1 medical BEFORE spending money on anything else. You can have the best aptitude scores in the world, but if you can't pass the medical then it'll be endex for you, I'm afraid.

[scroggs]

You would be very unwise to ignore the results of the GAPAN tests. No test is infallible, but these are very good. If they say you don't have the aptitude to make it, they're probably right. That doesn't mean you won't achieve a frozen ATPL - anyone can pass anything if they spend long enough trying. It also doesn't mean you won't get a job, especially with an employer lower down the 'food chain' who can't afford to be too fussy about who he employs. It does, however, mean that you will present a serious training risk once you get to the time-limited high-intensity type and line training in a serious airline. More and more airlines are insisting on some kind of aptitude testing, for this reason, and a failure at GAPAN is a major disincentive for them employing you.
Not everyone can do this job - nor should everyone, regardless of their ambitions. Some things you just have to accept. Accept it now, before you become an accident statistic.....!

[skysoarer]

Hang on...
Gapan tests : £150 - £200
ME IR : Nigh on £10k, just for that bit?

I know what I'd do ... but scroggs is right ... do the class 1 first, then Gapan tests. Of course the latter one is up to you.

SS

[Deputy Dog]

So guys, do most people do this or what ? and if you fail, there is a 96% chance that you will not make it as a comercial pilot (because they are 96% accurate)???
Can you improve your aptitude by practicing these skills ?? (This is true for IQ tests)

regards

DD

[Kray]

If the Gapan ones are the same as the RAF OASC ones, being a pilot already definitly makes them easier. I personally think practise does make them easier. You can try a few out at www.raf-careers.com (http://www.raf-careers.com) but make sure you click on the 'old missions', not the new 3d ones. I don't think the new ones are as good. Practice them for weeks, it gets your mind and body into the flow of handling that sort of test. I passed OASC (pilot), inc all aptitude tests, if anyone wants personal advice, email me.

[ 13 July 2001: Message edited by: Kray ]

[togaroo]

The GAPAN tests are worth doing, as has been mentioned, even just for some assurance that you are capable of making the grade. Scroggs is correct in saying that the tests are designed to see if you are capable of handling information required to pass sim and line flying checks in a busy environment such as commercial flying on big jets. Failing the GAPAN tests doesnt mean that you cannot make it onto the flight deck, but remember that as there is continual assessmnet throughout your flying career, you will need to keep up the level of work required to pass your CPL all the way through your career. So if you are scared of being assessed, then you are not going to like commercial flying, as there is always someone looking over your shoulder.

I have done the tests and found them ok, just take your time and make sure that you understand what it is that they are asking you to do. You dont need to have any flying knowledge.

150 quid is a drop in the ocean compared to the mountain of money that you are going to spend on training. Better to have an idea now than at the end.

The GAPAN interview thrown in is also valuable, as it does not only take the brains to make a pilot but you have to have a personality. Remember someone is going to be sat next to you for a long time and will want to get along with you, as well the rest of the crew.

Take the plunge and do it.

[scroggs]

Kray has missed the point of these tests, whether for the RAF or for yourself. This is not an obstacle to be negotiated, like an exam, it is supposed to be an objective assessment of your suitability for flying and your chances of passing the whole panoply of flying training assessments up to and including line release. Practising like mad to 'pass' the aptitudes is just deceiving yourself! As someone said at the top of the thread, these tests are valid only for those with little flying - or computer games - experience. Unlike in Flight Sim 2000, you won't get a second chance to miss the ground in your Scruggs Wonderjet Mk3 - and you could well find yourself in that situation. I reiterate the point I made earlier; not everyone can or should be a pilot - just as we can't all be pop stars, or professional footballers. There are many who should apply their talents in fields other than flying....

[VFE]

I did the tests earlier this year and got an average grade. I was a little dissapointed by the general nature of the grading system. They do have a breakdown of the scores but you don't get to see it or take it away. Shame really because it would be invaluable to see what areas you fell down on.

I got the impression of a laid back approach to the day and that they are there to help you in anyway possible. The so called 'interview' was an informal chat and I got on really well with the GAPAN rep who was an ex-BA Captain. We chatted about alot of things not just flying and the result was that I got an insiders honest opinion - and it was a positive one.

£150 is nothing compared to the dosh you are looking at spending so to not take the test shows foolishness if nothing else!

I think it helps to spend some time playing computer games to improve your co-ordination. £6 said his careers advisor told him to go and sit in the amusement arcade and play! Bummer huh? ;)

GAPAN rent the facilities off the RAF and therefore don't have any say about the way the tests are conducted but one thing that would be good to see is some sort of written test too. There is a GAP there!(d'oh!)

VFE.

[bow5]

Just thought i'd add my two penneth in here.

The aptitude tests are very accurate and give a good indication of your apptitude and how you will get on with ATPL training.

After all, they are the RAF's tests that have been developed over a number of years and are designed to tell them if applicants have the basic aptitude to fly a plane.

If anyone was to fail them, it would be worth thinking long and hard about your future.

Don't know if this has already been posted but this is what I remember from when I did them for the RAF:

1) General hand-foot-eye co-ordination: follow a cross around the screen using rudder pedals for left and right and a stick for up and down.
2) Hand-eye co-ord: Follow a line of dots up a screen using the stick for left and right.
3) Spatial awareness: This is basic interpretation of instruments. They give you an instrument panel and 4 pictures of an aircraft - pick the one that matches.
4) Memory: They flash numbers at you for 3-5 seconds - you remember it and enter the number. The higher you go the better. It goes up to 14 numbers if I remember correctly. I found trying to remember the first 5 and last 5 then get as much of the middle as possible.

The full bank of RAF tests goes on for ever but from what i've heard this is all that you do for GAPAN.

As far as practising for them goes I would recommend playing a flight sim for a while. Obviously this won't do much for your co-ordination but it will help with the instrument interpretation. You can obviously practise the number retention as well.

[G SXTY]

Any other ppruners keeping me company at the GAPAN apptitude tests on 27/09?

[bumpfich]

Is this is for JN Somers Scholarship?

[ 23 August 2001: Message edited by: bumpfich ]

[G SXTY]

Negative. It involves attending the RAF's OASC at Cranwell and sitting various apptitude tests (as used by the RAF, BA, Virgin, no less).

Afterwards you get a comprehensive debrief, with some frank advice about your apptitude / suitability for further training. The idea is to prevent self-sponsored students throwing £50k at an ATPL and then finding they can't get through airline apptitude testing sessions.

At £150, it buys a lot of peace of mind. Check out www.gapan.org (http://www.gapan.org) for more info.

[monkeyboy]

G SXTY, I'll be there. Wear a pink carnation to identify yourself. :-)

MB

[G SXTY]

Wilco young man, I’ll practice the funny handshake as well. :) Do you want a lift?

[Blindside]

Good afternoon G-SXTY

Out of interest, if in their opinion you didn't quite have what it takes, would you take their advice and stop dreaming about a commercial career??

Very best regards

[G SXTY]

Greetings Blindside! Has the sun tan worn off yet, or have you still got that Tom Cruise strut? :D

You’ve asked a very, very interesting question. My instructor reckons that if I can solo in under 11 hours, flying once a fortnight in cacky UK wx, I can probably fly as well as the next man. However, I’m a bit more cautious, and would feel a lot better for a second opinion – particularly as these tests are the ones used by some major employers. I’m a bit nervous, because I’ve always done poorly in non-aviation psychometric testing – you know, the usual trick-cyclist thing; “Would you rather be a hamster or a baboon?” :rolleyes:

However, I’d like to think that the RAF’s tests have a bit more scientific weight (any thoughts on this WWW?) so I’d take them a lot more seriously. Even if I didn’t believe in them, BA do, so I’d be a bit daft to ignore the results completely. In addition, the debrief afterwards should be a useful experience, giving me some guidance and a bit of interview practice.

Anyway, to get round to answering your question. If they told me that I’m a complete t*sser and they'd have to take my car keys off me for my own safety, I’d have to do some serious soul-searching about whether I’m chasing an unachievable dream, and whether I’d be better off sticking to a PPL. After all, I’d feel a bit gutted being told the same thing £50k down the road. However, I badly want an office window at FL350. I mean badly as in going to sleep thinking about it, dreaming about it and waking up thinking about it. Unless they tell me I’ve got the natural flying ability of a penguin, I’m going for it.

In short, every ATPL I’ve ever met has said the same thing, that sheer bloody-minded determination is the one thing that’ll get you through, so they’ll have to go some to put me off.

[kangy]

just a quick note,
I did the RAF tests last august with another freind of mine & thankfully got a high score. My freind however although he had a good score, it wasnt quite as good (soz gazza!) we both went together to get some licences & ratings and one thing was coming through that was quite interesting.... I managed to complete my multi in 7 hours and passed first time, whereas Mr X ended up taking about 13/14 and busted the first test. all through the physical training this has been the case. so the tests are not really saying you cant do it, (unless you get a really really bad score) but more the point that the higher score you get, the easier you'll probabl find it, the lower score you get, the harder you'll have to work to get that office window at FL350! I should be there too, so drop me a line or say hello! :D :D

[G SXTY]

Good point BBB.

I suspect that the GAPAN tests are no different to any other ability test or exam. Some people breeze through effortlessly, some find it harder and have to put in much more effort to get the same result, some are better off staying at home.

Not dissimilar to flying (funnily enough). A few lucky people were born with wings, some will always struggle, the rest are somewhere in between. Like I said before, I’m after peace of mind, and I’ll be happy with any diagnosis short of ‘complete incompetent.’

See you there!

[skysoarer]

I'll be completely incontinent by the end of that day at Cranwell me thinks....

I shall break my last dollar to be there on the 27th ... heck thats three days after my birthday ... another year gone! I have almost no idea what the current Gapan tests are like, although I only dropped one point in EPST's Compass test. I wonder how the two compare...

SS

[scroggs]

There's no hard and fast mark above which you'll make it and below which you won't. The tests give an indication of your chances of making it all the way to the end of professional training. They're not infallible (they can't measure determination!), and they don't completely filter out previous experience (flying or computers) but, nevertheless, they do correlate well with real-world experience.
I think that if you have a very low score and they tell you things aren't looking good, and then it takes you 40 hours of continuous training to go solo, you're probably better off investing your £50k elsewhere! But it's your money (eventually) and your call, no-one else can make the decision for you.

[ 24 August 2001: Message edited by: scroggs ]

[VFE]

Grab as much info from the informal chat with the GAPAN bod afterwards. I had an ex-BA Captain and he was the perfect chap for a down to earth, honest and valuable opinion. We had quite a chuckle actually! ;)

VFE.

PS: Stay cool and relaxed and you'll stand a much better chance of maximising your abilities.

[G SXTY]

Thanks for the comments chaps. Stand by for hearts being poured out in about a month . . . ;)

[kangy]

just another quick note for ya guys that are coming down... smart apperance, you wanna create a good impression with the GAPAN guys, believe it or not, they are quite powerful peeps that will remember if you turned up in jeans & a t-shirt! (you dont want that happening on your airline interview!!!!) :D

c u guys there!

[skysoarer]

BBB - would never have thought otherwise ... suit & tie it is. I shall be there on the 27th and need to find somewhere to stay the night before as it takes about 4hrs from here.

SS

[kangy]

theres a good little travelodge about 2 miles down the road from there, its cheap (about 40 quid if I remember right!) clean & somewhere to get a decent nights kip before hand! if you need any more info, drop me a line! :D

[skysoarer]

Thanks BBB! Have sent you email.

SS

[G SXTY]

Having recently sat these tests, I thought it would be useful for other wannabes to get an idea of what is involved.

GAPAN started running the scheme a few years ago to give self-sponsored students a chance to get an objective measure of their suitability for airline training. The website ( www.gapan.org (http://www.gapan.org) ) has got all the details, so I won’t repeat everything here, but basically they want to save people the grief of blowing upwards of £50k on training, only to find out that they can’t get through airline selection procedures. (Or even worse, make it to a right hand seat and then struggle throughout their careers).

The tests, which cost £150, are conducted at RAF Cranwell and – as WWW & others frequently point out, are recognised as the world standard in aptitude testing. I thought long and hard about the cost, as it could pay for another 1.5 hours in my log book (to go with my whopping 23 hour total) but decided that set against £50k plus, it was pretty small change. In any case I wanted the peace of mind of an impartial assessment - although I went solo in 10 hours and am told by my instructor that I’m ahead of the curve (and look good in a pair of RayBans :cool: ) its very difficult to be objective about ones own potential.

So, cheque duly sent, the big day came and G SXTY’s G60 zoomed up the A1, with a fellow Ppruner on board for company. Once everyone had arrived, we were given an introduction to GAPAN, as well as a thorough brief on the tests themselves. Candidates’ suitability for training is graded from HIGH, through HIGH AVERAGE, and AVERAGE to LOW. (A score of High Average or above would be required for RAF aircrew). A LOW grade would be a disappointment, but GAPAN point out that this shouldn’t necessarily deter you – Orville & Wilbur didn’t do too many aptitude tests. At the very least, you’ll have a clearer idea of your abilities. Anyway, without further ado, we trooped into the testing suite and were each sat at a computer terminal with keypad, joystick & rudder pedals. The on-screen instructions are clear, and you can take as much time as you need to understand them

The first tests examine eye / hand / foot co-ordination, firstly using a joystick & rudder pedals to keep a dot centred on a cross (while the computer tries to drag it away) and secondly using the joystick to align the dot with a series of dots that descend the screen. If you can fly an ILS approach in FS2000 in gusty conditions, you’ll be quite at home with these tests. Each one lasts a couple of minutes and requires a very delicate touch, as there is no springing or resistance in the controls. It’s quite draining, and the break before the next tests is very welcome.

The second set examine spatial reasoning, i.e. the ability to think in 3D. You are presented with an aircraft instrument panel containing the basic instruments (AI, compass, ASI, VSI & turn co-ordinator), are given 5 descriptions of an aircraft in flight, and have to chose the description that matches. Then its just the AI and compass, together with 5 pictures of aircraft – again you choose the one that matches the instruments. This is where the rather 1980s graphics are at their worst, and its sometimes quite difficult to decide which side (or even which end) of an aircraft you’re looking at. Then again, maybe its just my eyesight. :(

The next series tests short-term memory. A number string is shown for 5 seconds, and you have to type it back in when the screen goes blank. Up to 8 digits isn’t too bad, as you can memorise 2 strings of 4, but by the time it got to 11 digits, I was a quivering wreck underneath the desk. Hint: You get credit for each correct digit, with no negative marking, so you can at least memorise part of the number and guess the rest.

The final test is about speed / accuracy & prioritising tasks. You are given a grid with X & Y axis co-ordinates, and have to type in the coordinate to delete shapes as they appear randomly on the grid. To really make it fun, a priority shape appears every now and then, which you have to cancel first by pressing another button before the co-ordinates. This is another destruction test, as the shapes appear must faster than you could ever delete them. I would guess that the key is to keep plugging away and not allow yourself to get too flustered. I tried to concentrate just on one side of the grid and keep an eye out for the priorities, which made the task much easier to manage.

Once this is over, you can relax, go and grab a drink, and wait for everyone else to finish. There’s no marks for finishing first, so don’t worry if people start getting up and leaving while you’re only half way through.

When everyone has finished, you return to reception while the results are processed, and wait to be called in for a one to one interview. The debrief is with one of the GAPAN volunteers, all of whom are senior airline pilots with training and/or recruitment experience – i.e. the sort of people you want to listen to.

My interview was with none other than Capt. David Rowland, formerly B.A.’s Concorde Operations Manager. As pride of place in my video collection (the family one, that is ;)) is a flightdeck video of ‘Speedbird one’, driven by one David Rowland, I was chuffed to say the least. Needless to say, we spent about 5 minutes discussing the test results, and 20 minutes chatting about Concorde. . .

The aim is to give each candidate as much time as they need to talk through both the tests, and their options & plans. Its a great chance to have an informal chat with the type of person you’d normally only meet at a job interview, and this sort of advice & experience is worth a few bob on its own. I was fortunate enough to be graded ‘HIGH’ (as was my Ppruning passenger, so at least we were on speaking terms on the way home). In the words of Les Dawson, no-one goes away empty handed, and you get a letter from GAPAN confirming your grade, which is something well worth putting on CVs and taking to interviews.

So what does one get out of the day? For me, it was a chance to have a ‘dry run’ at the industry standard aptitude tests, a chance to discuss my plans with a very senior airline pilot, and an opportunity to meet a lot of like-minded people. Above all it was confirmation for my head that my heart was making the right career move. For all that, £150 seems like a pretty small price to pay.

If anyone wants to correct me on any of this, or add something I’ve forgotten, please feel free. Hopefully it’ll be a useful thread for anyone considering the tests, or who hasn’t heard of them before.
[Edited for out of control smilies :D ]

[ 24 October 2001: Message edited by: G SXTY ]

[ 24 October 2001: Message edited by: G SXTY ]

[BEagle]

I'm glad that you found the Guild's aptitude tests so useful - and I hope that you scored well.

Incidentally, another 'plus' you appear to have is good written English skills. Certain airlines put a lot of importance on written and oral communications skills which are often noted as being very poor.

I know that the members of the Guild's Education and Training Committee (who orgainse these tests) read PPRuNe and will be pleased to read your post!

Good luck with your aviation career - it'll be worth all the effort and expense when the smile comes to your face as you reach Vr for the first time in your first jet!!

[g10]

GAPAN tests aptitude, but where can i find out whether i'd pass the psychometric tests.

Heard many a story in these forums of pilots forking out for training only then to fail an airline psychometric test.

I think i've just failed a psychometric test for a customer services job at a bank...hopefully that doesn't mean i'd fail a pilot psychometric test.....

I'd appreciate any further information on this.

g10

[Sagey]

A really good post.

1 quick question if I may, for the cross test you said rudders and joystick are used. Is the rudder used for left and right movement and the joystick for up and down?

g10 you cannot fail a psychometric test, no such thing as failure. According to the bank you do not have the right personality/interests to work within their company. Companies look for different qualities, you just have to be honest when filling out the test and hope for the best.

Sagey

[Little Fly Girl]

Just wondering... Since the GAPAN aptitude tests are carried out at RAF Cranwell, am I right to assume that these tests are the same as which potential RAF pilots undergo too? May sound like a silly question, but a friend of mine who has recently become an RAF Pilot said that he had to solve many mathematical problems in the tests he sat? I may be confused (more than likely! ;) ) but I'd be interested to know all the same....

Any help appreciated, thanks guys! :D

LFG

[123.40]

I'm about to start a project on psychometric/apptitude tests for airline recruitment and I would appreciate any extra information anyone has on this topic. Before I started my training I had to sit a test called WOMBAT which had similar features to the GAPAN test described above. I scored reasonably well however I've always thought that it was a little easy and that the company would tell you what you wanted to hear anyway. The GAPAN test sounds excellent as they have nothing to gain by telling you that you are a natural.

Do you guys subscribe to the attitude that you should practice with aptitude/psychometric material before you get an airline test or that practice will not change you natural level of ability?

[G SXTY]

BEagle
Thanks for the kind words, and you’re right about that smile. If the grin I get at Vr in a C152 is anything to go by, I can’t wait to get my sweaty palms on a 737! :D

Sagey
Yes, the rudders control lateral movement and the joystick controls the vertical. It seems strange at first, but you very quickly get used to it.

Little Fly Girl
The GAPAN tests are tailored to airline training, as opposed to military. I believe that they just use a selection of the available tests, although someone like WWW could give you a lot more information on this subject.

123.40
GAPAN claim that you cannot prepare for these types of test, and previous flying experience is of no advantage. I’m a bit dubious, as I’m sure that a mis-spent youth in front of Flight Sim has sharpened my responses on the joystick, and I’m certain that flying experience has made interpreting instruments quicker and easier. That said, I think WWW has sat these tests about 8 times, and managed to improve his score by only a few percent, so perhaps the difference is all in the mind.

[monkeyboy]

Nice post, G SXTY!

Good luck with the rest of your PPL!

MB

[partagas]

Aspiring pilots - please do not give up until you have read this post!
I am a GAPAN member myself and fully endorse the efforts of the Guild in helping those interested in joining what may still be regarded as a profession.Regular visitors of this web site may question the validity of this status ; but one must be optimistic!
I do not not seek to undermine the objectives of those who administer these tests as they have first-hand experience of the disappointment suffered by those who longed for a career in flying but despite their best efforts fail to gain a professional licence, or who qualify only to struggle thereafter with recurrent checks. The tests are valid and efficacious BUT , do heed this all important CAVEAT.
Firstly in general terms ,despite claims to the contrary, performance on these types of tests will usually improve with practice and experience, just as pilot performance improves as a result of those influences.Would you expect it to be any different?
I did my primary training with the RAF on a University Air Squadron. Members were selected on the basis of searching interviews without the use of the aptitude tests the RAF normally employs and for the very good reason that the service wanted to recruit a broad spectrum of volunteer reserves who would be of future benefit. Many would discontinue civilian career aspirations and join up full time, others would leave the squadron to enter every other area of life but remain favourably disposed to the armed services. As a result I witnessed the efforts of individuals of greatly varying degrees of aptitude undergoing flying training.
Some students could plan a three leg navigation exercise in thirty minutes, others like myself would sweat for a whole morning.It may seem unbelievable but I can remember a number of us struggling to come to terms with the fact that whilst an ASI might read 100 kts the groundspeed could be different!Many of us could not even add up our mess bills at lunch reliably, but for other students Einsteins basic theory of relativity was, ...well, just basic.
Anyway the crunch came at the end of the course when the much feared,( but actually kind and fair) Central Flying School came to undertake the required "Standardisation " flights with the student pilots, -an assessment.
The results were very interesting. Of course those who embarked on the course with good aptitude generally performed well -the odd guy messed up due to nerves or bad luck
What about those " underwater basket weavers" who ought to have stuck to "reading weeks" and essays on "Towards a feminist poetics- did Jane Austen or George Elliot contribute more to the emergence of the woman novelist?"
A few fared badly, though none crashed! Most though ,after having plugged away and grappled with a task initially alien to their psyche, had modified their brains to cope and achieved gradings of average , high average or above average.
So for those of you who were disappointed with your so called aptitude profile please follow this advice. Go to your bookseller or library and obtain everything available on these types of test, even ones only mildly related.Take advantage of the advent of computer games and enhance your coordination skills , expand your mental capacity under pressure of time.
Allow yourself several months for the gains to show .Now try the aptitude tests again, if the results are disappointing and you know you have given it your best shot then maybe your brain is orientated in a way not disposed to aviation - look for a field that suits you better.However,dont arrive at the conclusion that you are not cut out for flying too hastily.

[ 25 October 2001: Message edited by: partagas ]

[ 25 October 2001: Message edited by: partagas ]

[G SXTY]

Thanks chaps!

MB
Did you get as much out of the day as I did?

Partagas
Absolutely. I went into the tests hoping to do well, but had considered the possibility of getting a poor grade. I also considered the advice of every commercial pilot I have ever met – that sheer bloody-minded determination is the thing that will get you through. Like most things in life, flying training is a combination of effort and ability, and the ratio of one t’other will always vary between individuals. As long as they combine to produce the result, job done.

Personally, unless I was judged to have the flying ability of a penguin, no test result was going to put me off.

[123.40]

I find that with a lot of things there just seems to be a knack - once it clicks it just seems so much easier. The question is -should people that are only naturals be allowed to fly wide bodied-jets? Personally I find that some things click straight away and others don't and I have to work hard to get them. Will the "natural" cope better when the "sh*t" hits the fan than the character who has worked hard to get it right?

Witht the WOMBAT I found that once it had clicked it was a lot easier - though I found that the figure rotation never really clicked so I'll have to do some work there :rolleyes: !

I suppose most wannabes roll these questions over a million times in there heads as well.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

G Sixty - thanks for that excellent post. I have placed this thread in the Wannabe Archive for posterity.

Thank you.


BillyFish2 - not a bad score at all mate - I've seen the tests...

Cheers, WWW

[AH64 APACHE]

Having met G-SXTY I can assure you that he is as eloquent in life as he is in the post. An excellent post G-SXTY and one worthy of the Pprune archive.
Hope all goes well in the big smoke and I have been meaning to e-mail you for a while - I am knee deep in ATPL stuff here and it is as hard as everyone said it would be. If I come back for chrimbo I will definitely meet up to give you the low down.
Good luck with the PPL - I am sure that you will get it with your HIGH skills!!!!
:cool:

As an amendum - I would agree with the post re aptitudes as as valuable as they are how do you go about destroying a dream because of a few tests. Imagine what we would have done during the war if we would only have taken 'excellent aptitude flyers'. It's amazing what the human body can get up to.
Regards
Apache

[cubby]

Excuse me
Could you tell me .
If you get a below average at GAPAN , are they suggesting that you will struggle with the training or are they saying that you wont be able to handle an airliner .
I had a 9 hour flight deck visit on an airbus A330 to the US . T.O to T.D. It looked easer than flying the old P32 Apache twin that I trained on . This I commented on to the Captain . He agreed . Of course I realise that there is more to it than just twiddling a few nobs.IE. Emergencies , Gliding practice to the Azores etc .
I have almost completed my Jar ATPL exams and would worry if I failed an aptitude test now .

Cubby.......

[SuperTed]

I really dont see why people in training organisations etc have to put a big cloud of uncertainity over someones career when they wish to make the transition from light twins to glass cockpit jets.

On the whole if someone can fly a light twin in IFR and dodgy weather conditions they can fly an A320 no problem. The only people who say that flying big jets is difficult I believe are some pilots who wish to make out that their job is much harder than people think and requires a lot more skill.

I fully believe that while an A320 or something similar is much more complex to understand in terms of the systems, to actually operate one is easier than a light twin.

The airline world is made hard by flying the aircraft close to its economic optimum. 30 years ago I think it would be a different story with many steam gauges found on the flight deck , but not today!

[G SXTY]

AH64
Careful mate, I’ve still got to squeeze my head into a C152. Carry on like that & I’ll need a C130!! :D :D :D

Cubby
No – flying isn’t brain surgery, and a low score in these tests doesn’t mean you’ll never fly an airliner. However, airlines would generally look to recruit people who show the best potential for soaking up training quickly (and therefore cheaply). That is what these tests are supposed to gauge, giving them an indication of an applicant’s potential.

But – and it’s a big but – there’s many, many ways to skin a cat. What will jump out from your CV more than anything else is hours. Chances are you won’t need to pass too many aptitude tests to instruct, and if you and me went for a FO position with GO, I had 300 hrs TT and a gold star from GAPAN, and you had 1000+ hours behind you as an instructor, who would be the more attractive candidate?

I suspect a lot of people look at aptitude tests (particularly for sponsorships) as something that can kill your career before it gets started. Aptitude tests are merely a tool in the recruitment process, nothing more, nothing less. Yes they are important, but they’re not the be all & end all.

Superted
Yep, I’ve had those jumpseat rides as well, when 99% of the flight was on autopilot, and I thought “I could push those switches.” I’ve even had an F100 FO tell me that he couldn’t land light aircraft properly because they were too twitchy compared to his Fokker . . . I think what you’re getting trained (and then paid) for upfront is those days when the super-dooper electrics don’t work properly, or the ILS is out, or the crosswind is right on the limit, etc etc.

They may be big docile beasties when everything is going well, but it always looks easy when someone knows what they’re doing. At 9 miles a minute (or 3 miles a minute on approach) I suspect most airliners would bite you extremely quickly if they got away from you.

[apple]

Chaps and chapess

What is a GAPAN Test and is it essential or indeed an accurate indicater to deciding whether one is "cut out" to be a airline pilot? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[Britmil]

It's exactly the same test given to potential pilot candidates in the RAF, RN and Army. I did one while I was still in the RAF so it didn't cost me anything, but as a civvy you will have to pay, not sure how much. There's several tests for measuring your aptitude for interpreting instruments and picking the correct statement, another one has you pick the most appropriate attitude picture for a given set of instruments.
Another one has you control a cursor with a built in lag trying to move it over a stream of dots flowing down the screen. There's a couple of other ones as well using the joystick/cursor and also some pedals which are slightly offset. As always there are time constraints.

They're not too difficult really, as a GAPAN bloke you'll get a certificate rating your chances of success in pilot training, rather than a pass fail like the military. I think they make military candidates do the nav test as well which is probably more reasoning + maths rather than hand eye.

I wouldn't put too much faith in the test, I heard of several UAS Studes who were highly rated on the UAS but couldn't pass the selection test and therfore couldn't get selected.

If you have no flying experience at all, get some lessons with and experienced FI, you'll soon know whether you have the aptitude and desire to carry on.

[G SXTY]

Check out:

<a href="http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=72&t=000065" target="_blank">http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=72&t=000065</a>

And I wouldn’t dismiss them too lightly. They’re widely regarded as the industry standard in aptitude testing, and BA used near identical tests back in the days when they sponsored people. Better to spend £150 on an objective appraisal at the outset, than blow thousands on training only to find out you can’t get through airlines’ aptitude tests . . .

That said, any decent instructor should have a pretty good idea of your abilities within the first few hours.

[frogone]

Does anyone know when the next GAPAN aptitude testing session is???

What's the best airport to fly into to get to Cranfield?

Cheers,

EIDW

[frogone]

Anyone??????????

EIDW

[G SXTY]

Contact <a href="http://www.gapan.org" target="_blank">www.gapan.org</a> . They’ll either have the dates on their website or you can give them a call.

Cranfield aerodrome is quite handy for Cranfield, <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> but I suspect you’re after somewhere a little bigger. East Midlands is the nearest airport, but the taxi fare would be awesome (you’d be better off hiring a car).

If you can come from the London area, the nearest station to Cranfield is Grantham (an hour or so from King’s Cross).

Good luck!

[niallcooney]

I'll make this quick... is it nessecary to do the RAF/GAPAN aptitude test to see whether one has the capability to become a good pilot? I'm booked to do one in March as I want to start my flight training and I'm not sure whether it's accurate or needed. Any thoughts?

[G SXTY]

I’ll make it a quick answer then. Try the wannabes archive - you’ll get chapter & verse there.

And yes, they are most definitely worth doing.

[scroggs]

Do it - and take note of the advice you are given when it's over. You're going to risk a great deal of money - probably someone else's (Bank, or whatever) - and you owe it to yourself and them to find out whether you're worth it.

[emu]

Say you already have a PPL, IMC etc. - Is it still worth it?

[G SXTY]

Yes.

Quick rule of thumb - . .PPL: £5k ish. .IMC: £2k ish

ATPL: £50k plus

You’ve still got an awful lot of money to spend / risk after getting your PPL/IMC. These tests are aimed specifically at measuring your suitability for airline training (i.e. your levels of coordination / observation / analysis / memory, etc).

Whether you think they’re worthwhile is irrelevant. The airlines take them seriously, so at some stage you are likely to sit them or something pretty similar. IMHO, its sensible to get an objective measure of your ability before you commit serious money - and at £150 for the day, you’d be daft not to.

No one would leave their class 1 medical until the end of their ATPL - would they?

[monkeyboy]

ATPLWannabe, listen to G-SXTY. He's speaking from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

I'd be surprised if you found somebody who DIDN'T advise taking them.

Good luck!

MB <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[niallcooney]

Thanx for all the advice guys, looks like I'll be doing mine in March!

[Fly home McDoo]

Is it worth doing them if you passed the BA tests?

F. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[monkeyboy]

I think so, yes.. .Don't forget there's also an element of peace of mind in there as well. By 'passing' - (I don't think you can fail them, you just fall into the lowest of the four bands) - you know yourself that you have a good chance of making it.

ATPLWannabe, I've just re-read your signature.. .You're a very funny person! <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[G SXTY]

Yep, I’m with MB on this one.

Another reason for doing these tests (in addition to anything else you may have sat) is the one to one debrief you get afterwards with one of the GAPAN members. It’s not often you’ll get a chance to sit down and have an informal chat with a senior training captain, and the sort of advice and experience on offer is probably worth the money on its own.

[vans]

To ATPL wannabe,. .I agree on taking the aptitude tests for experience but only for experience it would be rediculous to rely on them to see if you have what it takes to be an airline pilot. If you are truly commited to work hard you will become an ATPL holder. My friend failed the QF aptitude testing and is now Flying FA-18's for the RAAF !!!. .I don't beleive in ( have you got what it takes ). .so to speak...... .your skills to become an airline pilot come through training and determination to be the best!

[vans]

One more thing ATPLwanabe,. .Why are you taking advice from PPL holders and other so called 'Pilots' who know little more than you do about the industry!. .My recommendation is to do an introductory flight with an instructor and also speak to an airline Captain to get future information!!!. .The only way to become an airline pilot is to believe you can!

[scroggs]

Vans,. .I think I have a little more experience than you would credit me for - 10,000 hours TT (8500 on 4-engine heavies, 7000 pic, currently on B747) and an ex-RAF QFI. Whatever your friend's experience, I would still recommend taking the GAPAN aptitude tests.. .Edited 'cos I got my own hours wrong! (Oh, the shame!!!)

[ 27 February 2002: Message edited by: Scroggs ]</p>

[vans]

Scroggs,. .Sorry scroggs, didn't check your qualifications. I highly recommend Wannabe do the testing. .but surely you would agree that to base ones whole career on passing one aptitude test is not the way to go!

[scroggs]

Vans,. .I agree that the GAPAN aptitude test isn't, and can never be, definitive. An experienced QFI's judgement is also a very useful pointer. But I would counsel against the 'enough hard work and you'll get there' approach, as talent has a very large part to play - as I'm sure those who instructed your F/A 18 mate would agree!. .While it is certainly possible to get an ATPL by throwing enough time, work and money at it, that won't make you someone the airlines would want to employ. Now, and for probably the next 5 years, it's a buyers' market, and those who struggle through the ATPLs may well find themselves sucking the hind tit when it comes to jobs.. .If you were an employer, who would you employ? The talented individual who passed everything first go (and impressed in the interview and sim check), or the guy who took three attempts at everything? Determination is an important quality but, without talent, it's not worth much - in aviation, at least.. .When the airlines are screaming for pilots, it may be a different matter, of course...!

[captainkilner]

I'm thinking of going to one of these tests ,has anyone been to one ?. .. .If so, what's involved ?. .. .Is it worth it ?. .. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 06 March 2002, 23:11: Message edited by: Captain.K ]</small>

[Autofly]

Captian.K. .. .I think you mean the GAPAN tests - very good, have done them myself. There have been a serious amount of posts about this in the past and would suggest a search or you can mail me.. .. .Cheers. .Auto

[Rowley]

Hi K. .. .Look in the wannabees archive...there is a post in there about the GAPAN's.. .. .Have thought about it myself but £150 is a wad especially considering i am already comitted to the ATPL's!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" />

[scroggs]

Rowley,. .I take it from your post that you'd rather spend your £50,000 without knowing whether you have a realistic chance of passing airline training?. .Hmmm. I think you might want to revisit your priorities.....

[Rowley]

Do I detect sarcasm? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" /> . .. .I think you may find it aint £50,000. .. .£4000 G/S. .£15000 CPL/IR. .. .so £19000 altogether! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" /> £31000 cheaper than your guesstimate! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" /> . .. .Oh and btw i scored V High in all my morrisbey tests apart from one! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> ......I have the print out booklet with my results in.....so thats my piece of mind! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 07 March 2002, 13:56: Message edited by: Rowley ]</small>

[Rowley]

His advice and your advice is taken onboard....I may still do them if i can get the money.. .. .My second post is more about the way in which Scroggs' reply was worded. Suggesting a rather sarcastic/ obstroculous(sp) manner.. .. .Just because you can say something....it doesnt mean you should (Scroggs' words not mine). .. .Oh and btw i dont want to get into an argument about this....especially considering its way off the topic and is also a waste of valuable bandwidth! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" />

[G SXTY]

<a href="http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=72;t=000065" target="_blank">http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=72;t=000065</a>. .. .And in the great scheme of things, £150 is peanuts.

[BEagle]

Our GAPAN tests are proving very successful. They also have a very high degree of correlation with both Morrisby and military pilot aptitude assessment, although there are different degrees of correlation in some areas of miltary assessment for the obvious reason that the miltary will also require a pilot to have the potential of flghting as well as flying.. .. .My advice would be to make sure that you can pass a Class 1 medical first, then take the GAPAN tests. Yes - I know that, to quote Mandy Rice-Davies, some of you will say "He would say that, wouldn't he" - but the GAPAN tests are a very worthwhile investment for anyone thinking of a commercial aviation career.

[iainpoll]

Hi everyone, will anyone else be going to this Thursday's tests at RAF Cranfield? Nervous? Hope to see you there - good luck!

[andpmatthews]

I'm not going, but I have done one, there's no point in being nervous cause you can't change the outcome. Its a worthy £150 to find out wether your going to waste £50,000.. .. .All the best anyway!!!!

[phd]

Poly. .I think you will find it is called RAF Cranwell - do not turn up at Cranfield as you will be severely disappointed and embarrassed.. .-----------------------------------------------. .Pobody's nerfect

[David Balchin]

If your Going for the RAF you've got to do it,. .As the guy said, these no point being nervous. .but knowing computer interface logic can help (no matter what they say). .If your going to find out if you can hack it as an. .airline pilot, I think you'd spend the money better. .in a betting shop! These tests are there to provide jobs for the people running the tests (in my view) and I think you may be disheartend for no reason if you louse it up. if you just want to. .know if you can be a good pro.pilot then (if you haven't already) get some flying lessons in a taildragger,. .if you solo in less than 4hrs (if you already fly trikes) or 8hrs with no flying exp. your not going to have a problem, if your driving liecence has 10 points on it your not the sort they want. If you cannot make your mind up in a flash you'll not do well either. These are just some of the things that really matter and are used by some smarter airlines to find the right people. Best of luck!. . . . <small>[ 12 March 2002, 14:02: Message edited by: David Balchin ]</small>

[mike105]

Does anybody out there have information on the gapan aptitude tests,. .such as, are they computer generated on a pc or written?. .is there anyway to obtain past papers to have a look at the general layoutof the exam,. .would be greatful if anybody out there has any information about the tests

[captainkilner]

Mike105,. .. .If you look in the wannabe's archive there's loads of feedback on this subject.. .. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

[G SXTY]

Search ‘GAPAN’, ‘Aptitude Tests’ or the wannabes archive and you’ll find zillions of threads. This will get you started:. .. .<a href="http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=72;t=000065" target="_blank">http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=72;t=000065</a>

[iainpoll]

I know that this subject has been flogged to death recently, however having attended the test session on 14th March, I would just like to say that I feel this was a very worthwhile experience. Despite the cost, and the 4 hour drive, I received some very valuable advice from people 'in the know' and was lucky enough to drive home with a 'High Average' mark. The tests are draining, and require a lot of concentration, the digit recall and Matrix in particular! . .. .I would certainly urge anyone considering pilot training to take these tests, the £150 quid is worth it for the interview alone. You can't really loose, get a good result and your confidence receives a big boost, get a poor result and you get to save £50,000 to do somthing else.

[mike105]

anybody else sitting these tests at the raf in cranwell on april 15 and how are you revising for them. .regards mike

[GolfFoxtrot]

I was planning on going on later on in the year, but like you said Mike any revision advice would be very useful.. .. .GF

[captainkilner]

Guy's,. .. .I'm thinking of going in April but i thought it was on the Thursday 11th April.. .. .If you do a search on wannabes (i think !! correct me if i'm wrong someone !!!) for GAPAN or aptitude tests there's some good threads on there and what to expect.. .. .I rang GAPAN yesterday and i'm just waiting for the form to send off and i'll be there in April.. .. .Hope this helps.. .. .Captaink. .. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

[mike105]

anybody else out there doing these tests on the 11 th from Dublin,
just wondering which uk airport is the most convenient to fly too, to get to the RAF cranwell

[frogone]

Remember bout last Friday? 92?

DUB-LHR 1st Aer Lingus flight. Arr LHR 820.

LHR Express- Paddington.

Paddington tube to Kings Cross (Tube).

Walk to Kings Cross (Overground)- (bout 7 mins)

Kings Cross (Overground)- Grantham.

Get the GNER to Grantham, Departs 0920, 0930, 1010. Cost £22-£32.

Grantham- RAF Cranwell (Taxi bout STG£20 one way :( )

Sin Sin,

:D

[niallcooney]

British Midlands (Fokker F100... groan...) to East Midlands, bus to Nottingham, train from Nottingham-Grantham, taxi to Cranwell. Takes two nights.

[icebox]

Hi,

I am thinking to take the GAPAN aptitude tests which were mentioned on another thread.

Has anyone done them, and if so, how did you do? What did they entail?

Did a less than favourable result change your mind about becoming a pilot?

Regards
Ice.

[monkeyboy]

Have you tried the Search facility?

It was covered about 6 months ago when a few of us when up to do them.

MB:)

[r200biggles]

I went down to Cranwell to do the amptitude test. Costs £150. At the moment it runs once a month. You'll be in a group of about 20. After the briefing you all get put infront of a computer.

Rather than for me to describe all the tests, get them to send you the information - it will contail detail on all the test types. The tests are not too difficult. One example is controlling a cursor on the screen to go over as many travelling dots as possible in the given time. What happens is that you can only control the cursor left/right, the dots roll from top to bottom at reasonable speed. The dots move position so you've to move the cursor....

Another test is the memory test. You are given a series of digits, then you have to remember them an re-enter them in to the computer when the screen has blanked. It starts with giving you six digits, and finishes with 10 digits!!

If your overall score is < 90, then you get 'low chance.'
If your overall score is 120 <= 90, you get 'average chance.'
If your overall score is > 120 then 'high chance.'
Average chance of what? The tests are designed to asses your ability to complete pilot training....
The maximum score is 180. They will not tell you the score, just your grade. The afternoon is about three hours long, the tests are followed by a debrief. Your grade will be disscussed with you be a friendly membor of staff, I spoke to a retired BA Captain.

I got a high average. Your intelligence is not being tested, its your amptitude, something you simply have or you havent got.

If anyone has any questions just ask!

[G SXTY]

Student Pilot – I’m blushing! :)

IMHO, the GAPAN tests are more than just worthwhile - they should as much a part of your plan (and budget) as a class 1 medical.

It’s a strange type of person who would blow £50-60k on flight training, but not spend £150 on finding out whether airlines are likely to be interested in them at the end of it all. :confused:

[londonjedi]

Oh dear, People are bored aren't they! All this stuff about the spelling and gramma, so wot if anyone startz 2 make mistaks!!!
Enough of the joke now.

I would like to ask ANY AIRLINE PILOT what they think of the GAPAN test at Cranwell, does that actually measure your ability and probability as a COMPETENT PILOT?? It was said how if you fail the test FORGET the ATPL and take up driving a Train or something! For £150 to be told your crap by a cruddy compter is inaccurate in my view, I would love to hear opinions from others whom have taken the test.....
....what do you think of it?

[G SXTY]

Here’s an idea. Try going to an airline interview and telling them that “. . .£150 to be told your crap by a cruddy compter is inaccurate in my view. . .” Let us know how you get on.

But enough of the joke. The compter in question is owned and operated by the RAF, and is widely acknowledged to be the standard in aptitude tests. Airlines take them very seriously, and so should anyone who aspires to commercial flying - as important as a class 1 medical IMHO.

Not only do you get an objective (and well respected) assessment of your potential, you’ll also get a debrief from a senior training captain. You can – and should – treat this as a mock job interview. You’ll also get to meet lots of like minded people.

Compared to some of the things you’ll be spending money on during your training, £150 for all that seems a bit of a bargain.

[no sponsor]

The train driving test is hideous, so much so that you must get 100%. The three questions are:

- What does a red light indicate - a) Women of ill-repute; b) You need to stop; c) Don't know

- What do you do if you are tired in the morning - a) Ignore the alarm clock, and lay in bed; b)drag yourself out of bed, there are people depending on you; c) Take a sickie

- What would you do if it is raining - a)Do not step into the train cab. Rain and train tracks are a lethal combination b) So what? c)What is rain

As you can see, even the best minds have to be tested. (Answers are at the back of this evenings timetable from Liverpool Street)

[BoeingBoy]

So let's just put things in perspecitve!

I am a 48 year old Boeing 767 Captain with 17600 hours. I was a flying instructor at 19, a CAA TRE at 26 and at 29 I was a 737 Captain.

I left school at 15 with no academic qualifications whatsoever. I was absolutely useless at maths, I found my old school reports the other day, my highest ever maths score was 8/100!

My career was built on the old 'self improver' route, sadly no longer available to all of you thanks to not so nice men in grey suits driving Belgian registered Mercs.

But to answer the question. The GAPAN (I have been an Upper Freeman) tests were invented to provide some form of 'self assessment' for those who wanted to see if it was worthwhile spending the money involved. I applaud the idea but it is not to be taken too seriously.

Frankly, if you find your abilities to study adequately served by your motivation to learn, and it is motivation that will make you succeed, then you will get there in the end.

Above all stay flexible, if there is a job at the other end of the country that might give you what you want, then you quit your girlfriend, tell you mother that your'e leaving home, and you pack your bags and go.

Above all keep flying and keep current, given the choice of going to that factory to earn enough to afford that Instrument rating, or struggle as flying instructor, then keep struggling. You'll be in the right place to hear of the best opportunities to get the rating that bit cheaper and the jobs to follow.

At the end of the day you will be looked at for who your are, and what type rating you have. How well you fly is totally irrelevant in today's airline market. Once experienced you are only as good as your type rating.


The GAPAN tests will help you decide, but if your heart says you can do it, and you seem to be told that your progress is at least average, then given the motivation.......you'll make it.


Good Luck.

[Soggy]

I have been toying with the idea of doing a GAPAN test after a mate told me that it looks good on your flying CV!!
After making enquiries I have been advised that it is not really worth me doing it. I have clocked 140 hours and hold an IMC rating. An advisor reckoned they may not have me as the cut off limit is 150 hours for pilots.

So, I have decided not to bother!!

What I wonder though is this:-

The test is designed to establish a candidates suitability as a pilot by getting them to undertake certain tasks.

I have flown in cloud, IMC, alone... The multi-tasking involved here should more than cover any doubts anyone may have regarding suitability for doing an ATPL. (When I say anyone I mean me!!).

Who has done this test and whats it all about????
I am interested.

Soggy
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Kefuddle_UK]

I did it and got the high score (just thought I would drop that in). I had to question if they just gave the high score to everybody as I had my doubts, born of the surprise of doing well as I was convinced I would be a disaster!

The test is only for inexperienced wannabes. The test is actually corrupted if you have experience, as established pilots don't neccessarily do well on it. The reason being the controls in the test do not behave like real controls. The test's primary purpose is to perform a few checks on how your brain is wired up and if that wiring puts you in a category of people who would respond well to flight training. The test has been built on empirical evidence amassed by the RAF and is used by the RAF as part of its candidate selection process.

Hope that helps.

[Andy_R]

I did it last year and got the high score too (may as well squeeze that in too!!).
I would agree that it is to show the chances of you being able to pass flight training, though has little or no bearing on the theoretical ability of a candidate.
Tests include hand/eye/foot coordination, interpretation and numerical memory tests.
Not sure how valuable it is on your CV, though told it may help at a later stage when the begging bowl goes out to the bank manager!! However it does help to convince oneself that there is some "natural" ability in there somewhere :D

[G SXTY]

Try having a look at this:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=8817&referrerid=23370

[Andy_R]

G SXTY
What a wonderfully informative link. For anyone one who wishes to know exactly what the tests involve this is it.

[scroggs]

I would have thought that it's pretty obvious that any kind of testing to establish aptitude (or lack of it) for any occupation can only have any accuracy if the tests are carried out before any professional training is undertaken! This is one of the reasons why some employers want candidates who have little or no experience at the time of selection.

Aptitude tests are not trophies to boast on CVs, they are protection for your (or an employer's) money. There's little point in investing £50k plus in ATPL training if your aptitude is poor. That's not to say you couldn't pass an ATPL; anyone can, with enough time and money thrown at them. Unfortunately, employers need pilots who can be trained on complex aircraft within a very limited time, and who can be trusted with that equipment after their training. We all know people we wouldn't let out of our sight on a child's bike, and they're the ones that aptitude testing is designed to filter out.

Soggy, you may be God's gift to aviation. You may not, and an aptitude test before your training would have given you a clue which description fits you. It doesn't follow that because you have done a CPL, you are a good pilot.....

[Elvis21]

The GAPAN tests are purely to test your ability to grasp concepts quickly and correctly.
When I did them at RAF Cranwell you had to pass them just to get through to the next part of the interviews

[Kefuddle_UK]

Aptitude tests are not trophies to boast on CVs, they are protection for your (or an employer's) money. There's little point in investing £50k plus in ATPL training if your aptitude is poor.


Just to clarify. The GAPAN assessment does not guage your ability to deal with theory. It tests hand-eye, spacial awareness and your ability to cope with task overload. Therfore, this is only suitable to guage your probable ability to cope with the actual flight training particularly IR.

[Footsie]

I sat these tests at RAF Cranwell last Thursday along with about 20 other wannabes. Much to my amazement, I scored 'high' suitability for flight training.

I've read other posts on pprune and a lot of people also seem to score 'high'. My initial elation at the test result is now being tempered with the realisation that perhaps a 'high' is nothing special - perhaps a lot of those sitting get this result.

So to my question. Does a 'high' result from the GAPAN test mean anything? Would it be a waste of any aptitude I may have if I choose not to pursue this career?

I'm not naive - I know the state of the market and understand plenty about the downsides of this industry. But I told myself I'd decide whether to go further once I had my Class 1 Medical (obtained in Jan 2003) and a reasonable result from GAPAN, so now it's crunch time.

[High Wing Drifter]

I'm with you on this. I scored high and thought "That was worryingly easy!". I met one guy who got "Average" but everyone else seems to have gotten a "high"

FWIW, I don't think it seems like much to shout about.

[scroggs]

The GAPAN aptitude tests are a good - but not foolproof - indicator of your ability to untertake and pass flying training to a professional level within the normal timescale. Of course a 'high' aptitude result is nothing to get too excited about, because all the work is still ahead of you, but if you had a 'low' aptitude score perhaps you might think carefully before investing upwards of £50,000 on training that may well not lead to a job.

Think of these tests as a kind of reassurance that, if you put the work in, you have every chance of succeeding in qualifying for an airliner's flight deck. Just hope the jobs are there when you're ready!

As a last point, remember the RAF underwrites its entire aircrew recruiting policy with these tests, and they have found the correlation to be very significant.

Scroggs
Virgin/Wannabes Operator
[email protected]

[High Wing Drifter]

As a last point, remember the RAF underwrites its entire aircrew recruiting policy with these tests, and they have found the correlation to be very significant.
With a superset of these tests - yes. Just how much of a subset these tests are is not clear.

[Autofly]

I think that if the RAF have a good correlation between the GAPAN tests and a persons ability to complete flying training, we should not believe it any different for those taking the tests outside the RAF selection.

In addition, although stated that most candidates perform well, we must ask the question of who is taking the tests. If we took a small town or village and made everyone take the test then I don't believe all would be graded "high" or "average." With the tests exceeding 100 quid a go, most people paying for the tests out of their own pocket would probably have deem themselves to have a pretty good chance of passing therefore probably skewing the results indicating the tests are easy.

AF

[G SXTY]

My thoughts exactly Autofly.

Some of the joystick tests would be pretty familiar to anyone who has played with windy ILS approches in MS Flight Sim - precisely what a lot of wannabes would have been doing for years.

Indeed you could argue that by showing the initiative to seek out the GAPAN tests, and parting with £150 for the experience, candidates have already demonstrated above-average aptitude for training.

And I got 'high' too. Gissajob. :)

[FlyingForFun]

Maybe the people who don't score "high" decide that they'd be better off studying for some alternative career - so they don't hang around on PPRuNe, or in other pilots' circles, and we don't hear about them???

Just a thought.... I'll go back into my corner now.

FFF
-------------

[Mintflavour]

Has anybody sat the BA aptitude as well as the GAPAN, the comparrison would be interesting to know.

I have sat the BA aptitude twice but did not get any further. Past the computer part, and maths part, but the verbal reasoning....well I guess I did not reason correctly.

Im still confident and time will only tell


Mint

[High Wing Drifter]

Hey you! You in the corner (don't just love REM?). Personally speaking my view comes from speaking to people. PPRUNERs haven't really divulged much info about their GAPAN results.

[thebigyin]

I have passed other aptitude tests but also failed the BA tests - verbal reasoning too!

[Andy_R]

When I took GAPAN tests about 18 months ago, there were 38 people there, of which 3 got "high", 8 got "low" and the rest were in the middle.

Maybe it is a case of the ones that score low daren't say on our illustrious PPRuNe

[scroggs]

While verbal reasoning is part of most selection procedures, it is not really a test of aptitude. Verbal reasoning can be prepared for and significantly improved through self-study. It is not in itself an innate talent, it is the result of a process of education and logical development. You may have more aptitude for verbal reasoning than the next guy, but if he's studied it more than you he may well beat you in the exam.

The aptitude tests per se are a tool to assess your motor responses to certain stimulae. While your results can be improved through practice, the tests will still show who has acceptable aptitude - or, perhaps more significantly, they will show who has not!

Scroggs
Virgin/Wannabes Moderator
[email protected]

[Cool_Hand]

I sat the GAPAN tests in 1990 for the RAF, BA aptitudes in 2000 and GAPAN for myself in 2001. I passed all, but the differences...

The RAF set had a seperate set of navigation tests which involved lots of sums in a very short space of time, and a lot of time pressure reading from charts, but aside from that there wasn't much difference between that and GAPAN as paid for by Joe Public. The BA tests had some similar tests but also some interesting additions but all in all you could see they were all testing similar things, why would an airline pilot want to shoot down the enemy:confused:

But out of the crowd that I sat GAPAN with there were mostly Average High and Average scores (the scores being High, Average High, Average and Low).

From the several places where I've sat verbal reasoning and numerical reasoning, (pilot and engineering), they have all stated that there is no pass mark, though I'm sure a low mark would exclude you, but it gives them a good idea about you, are you an all rounder? or purely mathematical?.
But as Scroggs says I think it is more a tool to find who are not suitable rather than a tool to find who is most suitable.

If any thing they need some form of yardstick just to reduce numbers.

[Footsie]

Thanks for all your replies.

I agree that perhaps the main use of aptitude tests is to weed out those who score low. For everyone else, aptitude is one small part of what's needed to succeed in this game, along with perseverance, family support, financial resources, an overriding passion for flying, luck and friends in the right places.

[Tim_Q]

Mintflavour was asking about the difference between GAPAN and BA testing. I took the GAPAN / RAF tests last week too and also got a high.
I was chuffed about this as I was expecting maybe an average at best. My low expectations were mostly because I wasn't selected for interview after taking the BA tests and I had the same experience at Oxford. Both these were a while back now and I could not get feedback on either. Although I brushed it off at the time, this did had a negative mental impact on me (woe is me, I'm a failure) ;) ..seriously though, rejection is never good, so I wanted to do Gapan to find out my chances. Hence my delight at not failing miserably.

And the differences....
Airlines do not just test aptitude, they also do the mental/verbal reasoning type tests as well as those mind numbing personality test (200 odd questions?). These tests result in various graphs depicting 'you'. If your graph does not fit the company profile it's 'thank's but...' time. This type of testing is done more and more by all sorts of companies, it may seem unfair but that's life.

So, GAPAN / RAF test your abilities as a potential pilot, an airline will test whether you will fit into their company....as a pilot. And usually, the bar is set unusually high. This is because the interest is so high, they can basically afford to cherry pick but also don't have the resource to interview thousands of applicants so they weed out the best as soon as possible (again, sorry but that's life!).

The Gapan chaps are also very helpful and the most useful part of the whole day is the debrief after the test. These people are highly experienced pilots and are happy to answer any quesions you may have.

So, I'm glad I invested a day and £150 to go over to Cranwell, I was very worried for a while that I may come out with a low (apparently 20% do). Maybe you should be prepared for this beforehand (to hell with them I'll do it anyway or OK, lets forget the whole hairbrained idea) because the impression I got was that if you come out low they truly believe you shouldn't waste your money.

I seem to have ranted on but hope this helps others who are perhaps feeling dispondant after going to sponsorship selection and not making the grade. It doesn't mean you would make a crappy pilot! Only a small percentage get sponsorship (the lucky ******s) so don't give up on it! :)

So, well done Footsie, what's your next move? And good luck to anyone whose signed up for future tests, over all I think it's a very good idea.
T

[High Wing Drifter]

Tim,

You are obviously not the kind of chap who gives up at the first hurdle - good on you!

I fear rejection more than anything. I am quite used to a very, very high success rate in interviews and tests in my current career (IT - yawn). However, this pilot thing is by far the most challenging move I have made. Every step is slog and worry. If GAPAN can lift your spirits and give you renewed vigour, then I am pleased for you.

Hope you get there in the end mate.

Good Luck!

[BEagle]

I work on the same GAPAN committee as those who run the GAPAN aptitude tests and have had a good insight into their methods.

If you have scored well, you can rest assured that you will probably be very successful in your future civil aviation career. There is excellent correlation between GAPAN and Morrisby tests; the parameters assessed for the RAF differ somewhat from those assessed for GAPAN due to the different personal qualities needed. But a good result is definitely that; GAPAN's skill in identifying future airlline prospects is held in high esteem by the airlines - and even though people might have paid a fair amount of dosh to attend, if their performance was weak they would have been debriefed accordingly!

My heartiest congratulations to all of you who achieved high scores - you have the right stuff for the airlines!!

[High Wing Drifter]

My heartiest congratulations to all of you who achieved high scores - you have the right stuff for the airlines!!
Thanks :D

There is excellent correlation between GAPAN and Morrisby tests
Are we talking about the same thing? The Morrisby tests are psychometric tests. The GAPAN test is fiddling with joysticks and rapidly hitting buttons on keyboards (ok, a slight simplification).

I know you mean that people who do well in GAPANs do well in Morrisby tests but there is no way they test the same thing :confused:

http://www.gapan.org
http://www.morrisby.com/

[techdir]

Over the past year 32% of the candidates for the GAPAN Cranwell Aptitude Tests have achieved a ‘high’ rating whilst 26% have sadly got a ‘low’ rating. These latter ones are those whom we suggest might do well to reconsider their career plans. The balance (42%) of course were what we class as having an average chance of success. The validity of the tests has been well proven over many years and the doubters might like to know that they take the full RAF battery of five tests - there is no question of a subset for the civilian candidates.
Those with a high rating should be well pleased with themselves as they would also be acceptable for RAF training. The RAF retain the results on record in the event that the candidate decides to apply for RAF training. The tests predict the chance of success in training up to CPL/IR or RAF wings.

Chris Hodgkinson
Technical Director

[scroggs]

Chris, thanks very much for that clarification.

Scroggs
Virgin/Wannabes Moderator
[email protected]

[Just another student]

I found the GAPAN testing a very positive experience. The de-brief was well constructed and most importantly honest. The gentleman who spoke to me was an ex-BA training Captain, and as I sat in front of him I expected to hear the words 'not a chance' and 'forget about it' creep up. However I could not have been further from the truth, and I came out with an extremely positive outlook on the situation. Although it was only an indication on my chance of success, I hope it's spot on!

GAPAN testing in my view is worthwhile, and could save you quite a bit of money!

Good luck:D

[Fancy Navigator]

One thing I would like to find out, guys.....
What are the GAPAN tests like? Are they like the CTC ones, that is, the hand eye coordination, multi task, arithmetics, operating the aircraft tests (all computer-based).....? Or are they different?
I suppose you do not have Verbal Reasoning or MAths tests..??!!
Could you share your experience of these tests?
Thanks for your replies.....
:)

[Kefuddle_UK]

Fancy Nav,

No math or any psychometric style tests. Only hand-eye, anticipation, tasking (something they call "vigilance") and spatial awareness.

[jthall]

about 3 weeks ago i wrote about 40 letters to all airlines employing british pilots at present. Since then i have had about 10 replies( not bad i think?!). My letter basically asked the question of employability when i have a frozen ATPL (and about 200 hours). A couple of the letters i received back suggested to go for this aptitude test with GAPAN - they even suggested it was worth including in a CV to the airline when i come to apply in about 18months?!
However, i also took the COMPASS tests at CTC for easyJet selection about a month ago - these were really tricky!! Back when i was 17 i took the tests for RAF Flying scholarship (luckily passed) and these are the same as the GAPAN tests. In comparison the CTC tests were much more difficult - so the question i've asked my self is are CTC tests meant to put you off? OR are GAPAN tests not tough enough?? tricky one!! In reality i think easyJEts tests wanted the top 5% of the population (not me unfortunately) - whether this was a scam or not i dont know? (those tests cost me £164.50!! - and no certificate to say pass or fail).

So in conclusion, airlines obviously do take note of GAPAN test (i have written evidence).

[scroggs]

CTC's procedure is all about selection, rather than pure aptitude per se. While many of their applicants may have the aptitude to fly, CTC only have courses for 72 a year. Therefore they have to use more discriminating tests to whittle the hundreds down to 72. It's not a scam, just a normal selection process. You're comparing apples and pears!

Scroggs

[rumour reader]

Recently whilst researching aptitude tests I stumbled upon this...

http://195.92.224.73/j20/content/host.asp


Just wondered if any of you think I have the correct aptitude for flying? My first attempt score was 64300.

[Chuffer Chadley]

71749.

I think there must be something wrong with my computer- have you seen the high score table? People with double that score and more! They clearly need harder jobs!

Ciao!:cool:

[Andy_R]

64629

Makes the GAPAN tests seem easy!!

[Vin Diesel]

49646. No wonder they keep complaining about the bathroom at home!

[Fancy Navigator]

74756.....Hey, this is cool!!!:D wonder why I have not passed the COMPASS Test at CTC for the Easyjet/JMC Scheme....;) This fancy test is far more difficult..... LOL:D
Well.... Have fun guys :cool:

[BEagle]

There are considerable benefits in taking the GAPAN tests, because the accuracy of the scoring by their experienced testers is held in high esteem by the professional flying training industry. Feedback to GAPAN has shown that those who score well in the tests will acquit themselves well during their flying training. Furthermore, I understand that HSBC also recognise that a loan applicant with a good GAPAN test result represents a sound financial investment risk.

So, if you really want an honest and well-found assessment as to see whether you've got the 'right stuff' for a career in civil aviation, you would do well to consider taking the GAPAN tests. You can find further details at http://www.gapan.org/career/aptitude.htm .

[prat100_2000]

Can anybody give me an idea of what the GAPAN tests consist of? Am I right in thinking that 1) keep the dot on the train of dots 2) cross wires in the box, 3) remember number sequence 4) 2 fig. grid reference get rid of boxes etc? - or maybe I am completely wrong!

Are there specific Maths and English questions?

Cheers

[G SXTY]

Go back to the beginning of this thread...

[Sagey]

I sat the tests for the RN, and have a piece of blue paper saying that I would be suitable for flight training. Now I fell at the last hurdle with the RN, but would it be advisable to take the tests again through GAPAN or is that blue piece of paper equivalent.

Sagey

[niallcooney]

I got an 'average' (although I can't fly commercial in Europe due to my medical), does that mean I should stay away from an airliner in case it blows up?

Nial

[eire_boy]

Would you recommend completing the GAPAN test after or before completing the PPL but before proceeding to CPL? Are there any books that can help you prepare?

[nosewheelfirst]

It would be interesting to know what score counts as the divide between high and low as the RAF have been known to change the pass mark based on number requirements.
When applying for the uni air squardon I took the full RAF tests and just failed but I achieved a high enough grade to get into the squadron. I have had no problems with the flying training and have achieved high marks on my flying.
Aptitude tests are only 40% accurate and do not take into account your actual ability to work in the cockpit environment which is totaly different to sitting infront of a computer screen with a joystick.
Hopefully when I go for my bursary I will PASS these tests as thats all you need to do, the RAF dont have high or low scores so im interested in why GAPAN have high or low scores. Just a thought.

[BobFlyer]

Maybe this is not the right place to ask this. Could anybody that has taken the Aptitude Test at RAF Cranwell tell me at what time of day you left RAF Cranwell to travel home as I am trying to arrange the journey by Public Transport .

Thanks

[G SXTY]

1300 (ish) in my case, but it depends when your name gets called for the debrief.

I'd plan on about 1430 to be safe.

[BobFlyer]

is that about the time the last person leaves the place do you think ?also are you able to get taxies from RAF Cranwell ?

[G SXTY]

You're best off phoning Cranwell & asking them direct - get it from the horse's mouth. I'm sure they could give you names of local taxi firms as well.

[Malc]

I went and took the tests about 3 weeks ago. We were told prior to starting the tests that the last person to be de-briefed would be away no later then 16h00. Luckily I was the first one to be called for the debrief, and got away at just after 14h00.

Enjoy yourself at Cranwell, the tests and results are interesting, and the GAPAN people there really friendly and helpful.

[BobFlyer]

Been trying to decide now for a while now if it is worth pursuing
a career as an airline pilot after getting an average mark in the Gapan aptitude tests anybody any thoughts ?

Do you think I would find the training too difficult ?

Is there anybody else who got an average result continuing training ?

Any advice would be greatly Appreciated

[High Wing Drifter]

I believe average is not meant to rule out such a career. As well as getting opions here you really should get in contact with GAPAN and have a chat about it. They should have debriefed you on the day but sometimes you think of all the good questions after the event!

Good luck either way :ok:

[Cumulonimbus]

Bob

Agre with HWD here. Get in touch with GAPAN again and ask them all of the questions. Hopefully their de-brief will have given you greater detail about your prospects, together with an explanation of how to interpret the results of the test. I'm sure they will have done, otherwise the test would be pointless if it doesn't give you a clear indication of what it was trying to determine!

I've noted that they state their test, in their opinion, is only really accurate for someone with 150 hours or less (from memory).

Also beware of drawing conclusions from the terms 'average', 'below average' and 'above average'. These terms if used strictly in the context of reporting/feedback of psychometric tests convey a very different meaning to our understanding of these terms in every day life! By means of explanation, the term average in this context would apply to a band ranging from circa 20% - 80% percentile. What a huge difference to our understanding that someone who is just average is maybe an 'underperformer'! I never really understood why it was necessary to report back in these terms, but they demand that you do. Me, I'd prefer the exact result, so I could draw some meaningful conclusions.

Also understand that if their results are calculated and based upon a sufficient bank of results obtained by reference to tests conducted on pilots alone, as opposed to a random selection of human beings generally, then these terms have more bearing. To be classed as average from amongst a group of people with similar talents, aptitude, educational background etc, is by no means a kick in the teeth. Your average pilot is the vast majority of pilots who succesfully follow a career in their chosen profession. To be 'below' or 'above 'average', in this context would indicate that to be anything different is something to be shunned! Clearly you don't want to be below, but do you really want to be above either, beacuse you might then be considered abnormal??

It's confusing, I admit, but as HWD says, go back talk to them. Ask them directly, 'Am I wasting my money, should I follow a different career, what are my chances of succeeding as a pilot?' If they say 'average', go bang your head against a wall and demand your money back!

Good luck anyway

Cb

[wbryce]

Hi There,

What was the average based on? hand to eye coordination? or does mathematics play a big part in this?

Im intreasted in doing GAPAN tests, i was at the flyer exhibition show and GAPAN was there with some computer systems with PYSTECH Pyschometric testing software, with the hand to eye coordination im pretty above average.

What does GAPAN test you on to come to the conclusion that your average? (basic maths? or hand to eye coord?)


Ive also seen on BAE Systems website that they mention "BAE SYSTEMS can only accept those scores that fall under the high average result range. " Do you think this is mis-worded? i done a search on GAPAN and most of the ppruners say they get HIGH and not HIGH AVERAGE, ive still yet to come acoss someone posting that they got high average although im still ploughing my way through all the posts.

[High Wing Drifter]

They test you on hand-eye (as you identified), anticipation, spatial awareness, memory and multi-tasking. Basically, the inate skills you use when training for an IR.

There are no maths, verbal or other types of 'intelligence' tests.

[Malc]

I made a few notes during the group briefing prior to the GAPAN tests.

The max score is 180, a low result is <91, average is 91-120 and high is >120.

I can't remember exactly what percentage of candidates fell in the "average" category, but approx 70% rings a bell from memory - I didn't note this down.

GAPAN don't tell you the actual score, only the result category you fall into. I don't think that an "average" score should be a concern, by definition you have the same level of ability as most other people doing the test. Go for it!

[gomez]

I had a go at the basic GAPAN tests at the Flyer show and scored reasonably well (I think it was something like 6/10, 9/10, 8/10, 9/10)

I really want to know whether going up to Cranwell for the full test is worthwhile? What do people think? £150 is not much to spend if you are going to then go on and spend lots of k on training!

Has anyone done the test, done badly and still jumped in?

[High Wing Drifter]

Is it worth it? You gotta decide what you will do with the result. If you are prepared to bin any pretentions of becoming a pilot if the score does not match your confidence level then yes. The whole point of the GAPAN thing is to help you judge the value of ploughing all that cash into something that may not be a very realistic proposition.

What is the point of spending £150 to get a bad result and then ignore it?

[gomez]

Agree HWD. Ill have to completley honest with you and say that I beleive that (provided the test are computerised hand/eye based and nothing more) ill do OK in them and will only prove to myself that I do have necessary aptitude for flying. I have about 36 hours of a PPL at the moment so I do have some flying experience (albeit very little!).

I hope this doesn't sound a bit cocky but Id rather keep the £150 if I think that the tests aren't going to prove anything to me that I dont think I know already.............

[pilotpj]

Does anyone know (excuse my being naive) what the employment prospects are for graduates of the GAPAN ATPL Scholarphip. i.e. would it be easier go get a job? Are the opportunities different (by that I mean do you get approached by smaller operators/bizjets instead of the airlines?)

Just interested really - any past winners around? Care to share your expereiences post training?

PJ

[Valkyr]

Hi all,
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before but the Guild Of Air Pilots And Air Navigators (GAPAN) are currently handing out scholarships for pilot training funded by themselves. The Guild scholarships provide a unique opportunity for people who would like to become pilots or to further their qualifications as pilots. Available are full Private Pilot Licence (PPL) courses, Flying Instructor (FI(R)Aeroplanes) Rating courses, Flying Instructor (FI(R)Helicopters) Rating courses and J N Somers ATPL Scholarships. They also run Aptitude Test days at RAF Cranwell for £150. These tests may well save a lot of heartache together with the very considerable financial investment.

The website is http://www.gapan.org/ if anyone is interested.

I have decided to apply for the PPL course and an aptitude test day. I was wondering if anyone else had taken the GAPAN route and had any tips or opinions on it. Thanks a lot.

[ATP_Al]

Go for it!

I can't comment on the aptitude tests since I didn't do them, but I was awarded a GAPAN PPL scholarship in 2002. It covered the FULL cost of my PPL - all the flying, all test/exam/issue fees and full set of books and equipment to keep. All I had to pay for was a class II medical and perhaps a few landing fees. Since gaining my PPL I've contacted GAPAN for advice on several occasions, and they've been immensely helpful and supportive. And a scholarship looks great on your CV:ok:

What GAPAN are offering is free training with no strings attached, and asany regular on this forum will know, that doesn't happen very often! If you're eligible for any of the awards, get an application in. And make sure you spend plenty of time on it, as getting an interview is the hardest part of the selection process!

Good luck

Al

[High Wing Drifter]

Valkyr,

I did the apptitude test and all can say is it was enlightening. Just hope for a great or a terrible score, them's the only things that make the go/no-go decision easy.

The de-brief was 1st class and just what I needed at that early point. My momentory mentor was an a current corporate Jet captain. We didn't just talk about the test (hardly at all actually), but more about the industry, the way forward, what to concentrate on, what they look for, etc, etc.

Go for it!
HWD.

[Another St Ivian]

I fully back what ATP_Al has said, it is a fantastic scheme and is well worth applying for.
I was awarded a PPL Scholarship by GAPAN last year. It was a great experiance, it allowed me to gain my PPL for very little cost as well as presenting me with numerous other opportunities. They pay for pretty much everything, flying time, study materials, exam and license issue fees, ground school, etc. In fact the only things I remember paying for were the medical and landing fees.
The scheme opened up civil aviation to me in a way that I probably wouldn't have been able to do on my own at the moment, it was an experience that I doubt I will ever forget.
It also got my mug on the local paper and was a great 18th birthday present (my license was issued on my 18th birthday) :)

As I said....great scheme, apply for it as soon as possible :ok:

ASI

[G SXTY]

You'll find zillions of posts on GAPAN, but it never does any harm to give them another mention.

I didn’t manage to get the PPL scholarship, but I did attend one of their aptitude testing sessions, and cannot recommend the experience highly enough.

I did write a long description of what goes on at the sessions – will post a link when Danny gives us search back. ;)

[PPRuNe Towers]

Search is usually quietly popped back on line midnight to 10am UK times - just promise not to tell anyone.

Rob

[G SXTY]

I’ll sneak downstairs in the middle of the night and won’t tell a soul, scout’s honour. :)

[Valkyr]

Thanks for all your help. Really appreciate it.

G SXTY, I would be interested to see that report on the sessions you wrote if you could send me the link anyway.

Thanks again.

[G SXTY]

Here you go:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48069&highlight=GAPAN

Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions.

[Joe636]

Hi All!

I'm a 16 year old student just finished the GCSE exams (horay!) and moving on into higher education next term (Physics, Chem, Bio and Maths AS-levels if you're interested)

I was wondering if the GAPAN aptitude tests were available to all ages (well... 16 for me) and whether their scoring and accuracy changes depending on the age of the applicant, (rather like IQ tests).

Thanks very much!

Joe

(p.s. secondary question! Do you think my AS Lev subjects are a bit narrow based for airlines (i.e. all sciences)? Apparently these days employers (not specifically aviation related) have a tendency to look for applicants with a broad and interesting qualification... "array".)

[High Wing Drifter]

Joe,

Regarding the GAPAN test, the only source of reliable information for any specific questions will be from GAPAN themselves. I would contact them directly. GAPAN's web address is www.gapan.org.

As for qualifications, the only thing anybody really takes any notice of these days is a degree and, unless you want to be a fashion guru, a science/maths based one. Having a maths or science A level amongst other things always looks good too.

However, as with anything else, get the information direct; from your preferred employer(s) in this case. I strongly advise that you don't make plans or rest on assumptions born from hearsay.

[Joe636]

Thanks very much for the advice!

Joe :)

[High Wing Drifter]

Both Flyer and Today's Pilot ran articles about Airline aptitude this month. Both mentioned the GAPAN test. Both effectively said that if you get a high score in a GAPAN test then you are the right stuff.

Now I have done the GAPAN test (and received a high score...sorry had to drop that in) and for the life of me I cannot see anything in the test that actually relates to being a Captain, F/O or anything related to Airline flying specifically. What I think it does do is check that you are likely to get through the IR unscathed...but that is about it.

I think this whole aptitude thing is being a bit too hyped up now and is starting to miss the point. Any other views?

[AIRWAY]

I don't get it either. Maybe im stupid but i have heard stories here @ PPRuNe of people doing these tests, not doing so well during the exam but still got their licences and jobs.

[parris50]

I've never heard of anyone, until now, getting anything but the "high" score!

[scroggs]

The GAPAN test has nothing specifically to do with your prospects as an airline pilot, but it is a good indicator of your realistic chances of making it through your CPL/IR training. Aptitude assessment is not a matter of saying 'this guy's almost an airline pilot already'! It's far more about your ability to absorb information and put your learning to good effect within a very short timescale, as well as basic motor skills, spatial awareness etc.

There are many, many candidates who do not get high scores. Equally, there are many pilot trainees who eventually achieve a CPL/IR without a great deal of aptitude - and if I throw enough money and hours at almost anyone, they will pass eventually. However, they may very well not make good airline pilots. One of the advantages of having that GAPAN assessment is that, along with your history of first-time passes in minimum hours, you will be able to reassure your prospective employer that they will be able to train you on their aircraft at minimum cost and in minimum time. That, believe me, is important!

Scroggs

[G SXTY]

From the horse's mouth, aka Chris Hodgkinson, GAPAN Technical Director, 25/02/03:

High: 32%
Average: 42%
Low: 26%

Here's the full thread:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=81909&perpage=15&highlight=gapan&pagenumber=2

[parris50]

Perhaps in the flight schools, most of the students are "high". I'm glad, in a way, that there is a good spread of results. Gives the whole thing much more value.

[High Wing Drifter]

G SXTY,

Thanks for that. Those statistics are reassuring. I still think the test's function is being mis-reported though.

[Tallbloke]

Now that I have the magical Class 1, I am off up to Cranwell next Thursday for the aptitude test.

Firstly, I live near Exeter and am driving up on the day, if there is anyone from nearby who wants a lift, please let me know.

Secondly, could someone tell me if I will get some kind "hard copy" of the conclusions of the assessment panel please. I have had a look through the GAPAN site but I could not see the answer there, I wonder if past examinees could advise me please.

[Footsie]

Hi Tallbloke

When I did the GAPAN about two years ago, I received a letter at the end grading my result. The two pilots debriefing you at the end of the day present this to you and then you discuss it.

Hope it goes well for you.

[Deano777]

Hi Tallbloke

Im off to Cranwell too on the 17th, I have booked a hotel for the night before, I didnt bl**dy realise you had to be there at 11am and not earlier, and as I live Nr Bristol a car share would have been ideal, I have contemplated canceling my hotel room but its paid for now :{ :yuk: :{
Anyway

See you there :ok:

Dean

[karanou]

Just returned from todays assessment, and I feel this has got to be the best value for money you can spend on the rocky road to a career in commercial aviation, and in my opinion well worth attending.

My particular debrief was with the current Master of the Guild which was enlightening and very helpful

The debrief alone has got to be worth the entrance fee

A good effort Gapan

K..

[High Wing Drifter]

The debrief alone has got to be worth the entrance fee
Agreed! My debrief was positive, realistic and the voice of actual independant and relevant experience. The trouble is it isn't until all the other professionals one meets along the way say the same thing that you actually realise how good the initial GAPAN debrief was!

[Spike001]

Just wondering what does this test actually involve, as I'm planning on doing my ATPLs soon, so might be worth to do it?

Any info...

Cheers :ok:

[Deano777]

Spike

read this link

Clicky (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=8817&referrerid=23370)

I'll type my lowdown on it in a while, I attended GAPAN today

Dean

Actually

I cant really elaborate on what has already been typed in that post :\\ :{ :p

[Spike001]

Many thanks,

Exactly what I was after! :ok:

[esvdx]

One more piece of advise is to wear a suit.

The debriefs are with experienced ex/captains (mainly from BA) and they like to see a suit (I know this having not worn one!)

The aptitude tests are quite stressful but you can remove tie / your jacket to be comfortable if you think that will be helpful.

Regards

esvdx

[Tallbloke]

I have to say that I did not feel disadvantaged not wearing a suit, and my interviewers did not seem to be any the less forcoming, positive and friendly because of it.

The flipside is that for most of us, the sort of flying we aspire to involves wearing a uniform, so if you do feel uncomfortable in anything more than flip flops and a thong, it may not be so kindly looked upon. Wear something you are comfortable in though, some people obviously had not worn a suit for a very long time before yesterday, and many others could not do up a tie. It is very easy to look very scruffy in a suit!

I think the key thing to remember is to enjoy the tests. They are hard work (I was shattered after the aptitude test section and was glad of a break before the review section) and keep in mind what you want from the experience. The assessors are very honest and more than willing to give advice, which for me was the most beneficial part of the whole day.

Oh, and by the way, on the letter of invitation that I received from the Guild, the last paragraph beginsThere are no meal facilities but a drinks machine is available and snacks may be purchased at the shop on the main road opposite the Guardroom So to avoid any disappointment, make sure you either take something with you or eat beforehand.

[High Wing Drifter]

One more piece of advise is to wear a suit.
My advice is do not feel that you must be anything. Make sure you are relaxed. If you think wearing a suit helps then by all means. The tests are completely objective. Even if you turned up as a Goth you would still score the same :D

[Blinkz]

GAPAN isn't actually of any real use, its just peace of mind that they think that you have what it takes to pass a flying course.

I think FTE Jerez accept the test to go on their course.

[Tallbloke]

The purpose is to test your aptitude. They will let you know whether or not they feel you would make a pilot, simple as that. It is not compulsory, but at £150, it is perhaps the cheapest bit of gaining your CPL/IR. Personally I think it was money well spent.

[High Wing Drifter]

A good score can only help convince HSBC you are a good bet.

Not only that, but apparently, some airlines view a good score favourably...just don't quote me on that; if memory serves me well, I think Scroggs said as much too.

[zorrotfb]

FWIU these are similar in some repects to the RAF aptitude tests.

I first sat the RAF tests for a Flying Scholarship in which I was graded A and received the scholarship, they may have a differing scoring system now.

I then sat the full battery of tests for pilot/nav, 6 hours compared to the 2 or so for the scholarship and passed again.

Are these tests required or even looked at by potential employers or are they some sort of benchmark for one to go by before shelling out loads of moolah on professional training ?

If the former would RAF results count in lieu of a GAPAN score ?

[zorrotfb]

OK well has anyone done these tests and subsequently been asked by an employer either during or at pre-interview stage for any kind of result verification ?

From what I can see these tests are basically so that the individual can see if they are suitable for training or otherwise.

[sensible2k4]

Hi, I was at the Flyer Show yesterday. I tried the GAPAN test that they had, and was wondering what score on that would roughly relate to being able to getting a High mark in the real thing?



Once again it was a great show :)

[Wazzoo]

ummm, probably not quantifiable I guess. They only had a few tests there to give you a feel for things.

Short of saying a high mark at the exhibition indicates a high mark when you actually take the test I guess go more on the reaction of the guy supervising you. Did he say..ok..you did ok on that..struggled a bit on that. Or did he say..oh..you did well on that, better than most on those..etc!

You can always shell out £170 at take the full tests up at Cranwell if you want before apply properly.

[jamielatham]

sensible2k4

What score did you get?

Thanks


Jay

[sensible2k4]

I got 31 , wasnt very good at the hoops :(
The guys seemed quite happy and introduced me to some people who I had a good chat with.

[jamielatham]

31?

Thats put me at ease then, What did the Man say about the score?


Thanks


Jay

[High Wing Drifter]

If I recall correctly from my de-briefing, a High started in the mid-seveties (is the score an overall %). However, I don't recall a test with hoops. I seem to remember:

1) Capturing the dots

2) Targeting the dot with reversed controls that become increasingly unreliable.

3) 3D orientation

4) Instrument interpretation

5) Memory test

6) The vigilence test. A matrix of activities to overload you.

7)...um...can't remember. But I know there were seven.

Looking at the current blurb, there are now only five tests. I so guess hoops is a new one.

[sensible2k4]

The test we did was just a practise, doesnt involve anything from the real test, i dont think anyway. However it test some of the same kinds of things, What was your score?

Did they not talk to you afterwards?

[jamielatham]

I got 80%

They didnt talk to me afterwards, i just got up and went to look at the simulator...

Just wanted to know what the test was about realy, although the real one may not be alike...


Jay

[Cirrus_Clouds]

Hey all,
I have booked an aptitude test with GAPAN, just wondering if others have done this before and what type of tests I can expect to do on the day?

P.S. YES, I have done a search before anyone asks :E :ouch:


Cheers!

[mcgoo]

Hi, theres 6 tests iirc, one of them is remembering number sequences, eg. 6 numbers flash up for 2/3 seconds then you have to input them correctly in the right order, this goes up to about 14 numbers, theres one test where there is a series of dots on the screen in trails and you have to use a joystick to keep a white ball following the trail, one test is a 3d outline of an aircraft and 6 pictures of instruments and you have to select the set of instruments that matches the aircraft attitude. Theres a grid test where you have a grid matrix and you have to input the co-ordinates of certain coloured squares that appear while also cancelling other squares that flash randomly. Theres a test where you have to keep a cross on a target area using opposite controls ie moving joystick left moves cross right etc, and i can't remember the last test.

[grape]

Hi all,

I'm new here, and I was wondering if someone in this forum has been for an interview and aptitude test at GAPAN for a PPL flying scholarship?
I'd like to know some details on the types of tests and interview questions?
Any info/adivce is much appreciated.
Thanks,
Grape

[BEagle]

It is not compulsory for you to take any aptitude tests if you are applying for one of The Guild's PPL Scholarships; however, you would be well advised to consider taking The Guild's aptitude tests at RAF Cranwell if you have aspirations towards a career as a commercial pilot. See http://www.gapan.org/careers/aptitude.htm for more information. If you score well, the fact will certainly be of interest to the PPL scholarship assessors.

The 2006 competition for PPL scholarships has now closed, keep an eye out early next year for details of the 2007 competiton.

The PPL scholarship awards are made by a Selection Committee appointed by The Guild. From the large number of applications received, the Committee produces a short list of candidates; those who are short listed for the PPL Scholarships are required to attend at their own expense for an interview commencing early June at the London offices of The Guild. The interview is preceded by a short written examination to assess numeracy, literacy and mental agility.

Good luck!

[Cirrus_Clouds]

Thanks for the input guys!Are GAPAN tests just Co-ordination tests and don't cover any maths etc?

[Cirrus_Clouds]

This forum is really handy!

I did the GAPAN tests on 8th June and obtained a High Average score. I'm starting to wonder whether this is a high enough score for airline selection or sponsorship, but I guess decisions don't just come down to GAPAN tests, but other tests as well.

I was told before receiving my results, that people's scores tend to decrease after the age of 22 (made me laugh when I heard that lol! and thinking "great" ... not). The tests are also aimed at people who have little or no flying experience - I have a PPL and around 85 hrs.

[High Wing Drifter]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong and FWIW, but somewhere along the way I got the idea that with the full salvo of tests, "High Average" is the watermark for RAF flight crew. If so I would interpret such a score as very positive.

Again, FWIW WRT age. I did the GAPAN test aged 36 3/4 and got top marks. My personal perception is that it is a good indicator although I can't deny the IR has been a wake up call from the complacency I unknowingly slipped into, albeit for some interesting reasons (sometimes for reasons outside of my control) so keep on to of it :ugh:

[Londonboy29]

Chaps,
I'm currently doing bookwork to hopefully start modular route to ATPL in 2007.
I just have a couple of questions re: the Cabair site I have recently visited, and a GAPAN individual I met a flying show a while back:
1) They seem to be claiming that if you get a low score in the GAPAN/PILAPT, then you shouldn't bother about trying to become a pilot. Does this have any truth to it? (I'm basically trying to find out if the fact that they charge for these tests have anything to do with it)?
2) I'm guessing that during the PPL, a candidate should get an idea of there aptitude re: flying skills? Is this the case, or should one forget about trying for an ATPL unless they get a good score on GAPAN/PILAPT.
Any other thoughts on this area would be very much appreciated.
Many thanks.
LB

[dom462]

Can somebody tell me when the next test is? I'm about to start modular training at the end of january and would like to know if I can get a test beforehand. If not it'll have to be after my PPL. It says on their website the dates for 2007 the earliest being february. If they run every 2 months is there not one in december?

[Captain Melly]

The next GAPAN aptitude test is Thursday 7th December...if you go you'll have the honour of meeting me there!! :)

CM

[ATPLwhoops]

Hi all,

Can anyone enlighten me on the GAPAN aptitude test. Will be going soon and wanted a little bit of info. Also is there anyway you can revise / practice before the test?? Also what are the topics?


Thanks

ATPLWhoops

[ATPLwhoops]

Hi,

I will be attending the test Dec7th. Not really sure what to expect but i'm sure it will be a great day out. Meeting professionals to have a one-to-one outside of an interview enviroment.

Thanks

[dom462]

You can't revise for aptitude tests. The only preparation you can do is to get plenty of sleep the night before and go there with a clear and focused mind.

Hi all,

Can anyone enlighten me on the GAPAN aptitude test. Will be going soon and wanted a little bit of info. Also is there anyway you can revise / practice before the test?? Also what are the topics?


Thanks

ATPLWhoops

[Captain Melly]

Just wanted to say how worthwhile I found the pilot aptitude day at RAF Cranwell yesterday, and to thank all those volunteers from GAPAN who gave of their time so generously to give sound advice to us aspiring professional pilots.
Thanks! :)

[BEagle]

That's kind of you - hope it went well for you.

I will pass on your comments to those responsible at the Guild.

Good luck with your future career!

[Peelay]

what was this please?

[BEagle]

See http://www.gapan.org/careers/aptitude.htm

Good luck!

[Rj111]

While we're on the subject....

I was recently unsuccessful at CTC but i passed the apptitude test - though am still awaiting my results.

I am still interested in pursueing a career in aviation an i'm wondering whether it would be worthwhile taking this test. Is it more comprehensive than the Pilapts test?

[Andy_20]

Does anyone have any first hand experience of the Gapan tests held at RAF Cranwell? I would like to know about what tests are undertaken and kind of a whole day account of what you went through? any information much appreciated...

[G SXTY]

Have a read of this thread.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=163808

My post no. 57 describes the tests and the general experience. It was a few years ago, but I doubt it's changed very much.

[Alltheway]

Hi Final Destination,

I have my Assesment on Wednesday 11th OCT. Would you possibly let me know which tests are n the Battery please.

A Brief description so I can match with Cockpitweb's PILAPT would be fantastic if you get this in time.

Thanking you in advance.

[GAPAN]

The current battery comprises :- 2 capacity; 2 Spatial Awareness & 2 Co-ordination tests.

I gather someone has reported that you can practise for the tests and thereby do better than would normally be the case. To the best of our knowledge, and that of the experts at Cranwell, this is untrue.

The tests are NOT Pass/Fail, rather they give an indication as to the inate abilities in the three areas mentioned above as to the chance of success under training. However, a most important part is the subsequent session with one of our experienced trainers which rounds out the picture, determines enthusiasm, knowledge etc etc.

Technical Director
GAPAN

[Baatezu]

A minor question, out of curiosity I was seeing how well I do at remembering numbers but seem to have trouble determining how the actual test is conducted. So far the information I've found is more or less:

a) up to 10 digits in 5 seconds;
b) up to 12 digits in 5 seconds;
c) up to 15 digits in "2/3" seconds (!)

So which one (or what combination) is it? Because if it's a that's great, b not so much and c, well... :}

[TheBP]

I'll hopefully (only decided at the very last minute, shall be phoning up to confirm tomorrow!) be off to GAPAN's Aptitude Testing on 12th June.

Just wondering if there is anyone else on here who's going? I'm planning on driving from South West Worcestershire to Cranwell - if anyone lives close to a viable route, let me know as I could probably provide a lift.