Africa Ride (video) Any opinions?

[karroo]

Hi!!!

Just found this movie while surfing in the web... I am a low time as350 driver and this video left my hands sweat...
Comments please


http://www.biff.nl/images/filmpjes/Helicopter%20zuid%20Afrika.wmv

Regards

Artur


PS: I don´t know if this movie was posted before, if so disregard the topic.

[HeliMark]

Nothing very difficult in the way of flying.

But with paying passengers? I think not. There seems to have been several crashes of tour helicopters in the last several years that may have been caused by some flying like that.

[Heliport]

Thanks for posting karroo.
Good video. :ok:

Anyone on a dial-up connection might want to save to the hard drive first.

Heliport

[unhappyhamster]

certainly pushing the boundaries of ' when not if ! '

[MD900 Explorer]

Negative G pushovers and gung ho flying like that were great and fun, for the pilot and pax at the time...suprised not to see any hammerheads in there.... If the pilot was wanting an early grave, then flying like that would give it to him/her. :uhoh:

I saw a million forced landing sights there, just none of them any good....:ouch:

If there was Pax on board.... would they want to come back again .... I guess they would.. They take away a thrill and nothing less. The pilot has to live with the day that the donkey quits, and he killed 5 pax :{

I guess it is all a £$£$£$ game. Who lives longest to tell of most enjoyment and profit.... verus i chopper crash.... costing $$$ and lives..... Does it all mount up to a viable venture? :eek:


MD :sad:

[mtnmotion]

Well what can one say?

Same old circus,
different CLOWNS.....:(

[407 Driver]

two words .... servo transparency.....

There was a couple of times that he may have been in a world of hurt if those servos locked up !

[fishboy]

I have had servos lock in a 350, pretty scary:eek: . happened to me with an external load (faulty servo) would not be nice at all to have one lock up during some of that flight. Not to mention all of the other possible emergencies:uhoh: He's probably glad he can't be easily identified. But no amount of preaching will ever stop people flying this way. It's exciting!.... I personally don't fly like that with pax on board... but on my own.... who knows what goes on.
There will always be helicopter accidents, and tour pilots I'm sure get bored as hell doing the same route, day in, day out. It's really hard to force yourself into remembering that for the people in the back, it's exciting enough without all that rock'n'roll.:cool:
Enjoy it....but please live to tell the tale:)

[R22DRIVER]

I shat myself just watching that!!!

Is that guy just plain stupid or what??!!!! No wonder [pilots] like that give the press a field day when the donkey stops!!!

:mad:





The PPRuNe software deletes bad language for a reason - we don't want it.
Please don't get round it by adding *** to words.
Heliport

[Heliport]

Good question. :ok:

Hope we get some good answers - with reasons.

H.

[407 Driver]

Some of us are guilty of doing similar flights at some points in our careers. We lived through it, and that silly stage passed. We became better, smoother, more professional, more mature, OLDER pilots. A few didn't.
This guy s is probably not a bad pilot, but he did do something that some of us have learned not to do.

In my opinon, he did put the aircraft in a position that if the "known issue" of servo transparency developed, if only for an instant, he may have been in danger. That type of aircraft has been know to do that, so fly the type accordingly. Fly smoothly, and always leave yourself that exit. Flying agressively toward rocks could put you in a bad situation...IF something does happen.

[IntheTin]

Must say that if I was on holiday and went for a tour in a helicopter like that one, It would probably be one thing I wouldn't forget. Looked and sounded like the pax had a great flight though. We try strange things on holidays.
They don't understand the in's & out's of flying so don't really care for the difficult situations that the pilot may get himself & said pax into, if like 407 driver & fishboy pointed out about failing servo's or the donk failing.
Great vid all the same. Looked a lot of fun, bit hair raising, but fun!;)

[mikelimapapa]

You never know, it could have been the pax that asked for a thrill ride and the pilot was just giving them their moneys worth.......they did seem to be throughoutly enjoying it!

[doubleu-anker]

That video clip shows a classic and deadly case of overconfidence and low experience.

He has not only put himself in harm's way but even more disturbing, the lives of those poor passengers. It may look impressive but it just isn’t worth it.

I was down in that part of the world more than 20 years ago, engaging in similar operations, for a job. A huge investigation had been completed a few years previously into the amount of GA accidents that was prevailing. I read the findings and recommendations with interest. From what I experienced down there, "beat ups" were a way of life and commonplace. This cowboy approach to aviation IMHO could have been the cause of more accidents than some reports seemed to suggest.

Aggression and violent manauvers have no place in civil avaition. Best channelled into the military or the rugby field.

[[email protected]]

Some interesting flying with few options if the donk stops.

What is 'servo transparency'? I have searched the forums and the only place the phrase comes up is on this thread. Are you talking about the servos being unable to cope with the aerodynamic backloads at high speed/g (the Gazelle's jackstall) or something else?

[Heliport]

'Servo Transparency' is another name for Jack Stall. Servo Reversibility is another one.

As well as the Gazelle, it can happen in the AS350B, AS355E, and EC120B.

(Some say it can happen in any helicopter with hydraulics.)



H.

[407 Driver]

"servo transparency" is the exact terminology that Aerospatiale used in the 350B manual years ago when I flew that type. Not sure if they still use that term, I haven't read a Eurocopter 350 manual in years.

and Yes, it could happen to any aircraft with hydraulics.

[zhishengji751]

Some interesting flying with few options if the donk stops.
What is 'servo transparency'? I have searched the forums and the only place the phrase comes up is on this thread. Are you talking about the servos being unable to cope with the aerodynamic backloads at high speed/g (the Gazelle's jackstall) or something else?

Crab.. here is the earlier thread..
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=154199

I had to use 'Advanced Search' and change the 'Find Posts from' date.

cheers,
Greg

[[email protected]]

Thanks for the info chaps, I clearly wasn't using the search facility properly.

Having now read the thread it seems that the AS350 might suffer from 2 problems a. jackstall like the gazelle because the hydraulic servos are not man enough for the job. and b. another hydraulic problem that leaves the controls feeling 'locked' and can occur at high DA without neccesarily harsh handling being required.

I taught/demoed jackstall at CFS and Middle Wallop and it doesn't feel like the controls 'lock' - it feels like retreating blade stall since the highest aerodynamic back loads are on the retreating side and that is where the jack stalls. If the controls 'locked' you wouldn't be able to take the corrective action of reducing the severity of the manoeuvre to recover.

Answer - don't fly French helicopters.

[Stan Switek]

No way in hell I'd fly like that with passengers on board or even solo. I agree that type of flying is best left for combat.

[unhappyhamster]

Crab - are you being serious ?:confused:

[archos]

There comes the time in a Pilots life, when flying sound and safe - with or without passengers - will just do nicely. Let the stunts be done by those who get paid for doing them.

[SARREMF]

Sadly Crab was being serious - I too remember the Jack stall sortie. Interestingly, having flown the Squirrel, I cannot remember anyone mentioning SERVO TRANSPARENCY before! Come to that I can't find it in the aircrew manual either - oops suspect I should have handed that one in when I left!

[SARREMF]

Sorry, forgot to mention the video! Well, one word springs to mind - barking! Having taught mountain flying - lets face it, you can use the techniques on features like these - the guy clearly has 'issues' with his life expectancy.

Any body ever seen the video 'the failed aviator'? Its an american training video where the pilot/Dr talks about what pilots do as they get further in to their careers, the risks that they feel they can take, and the balance between experience and risk taking. Cracking video, when I watched it - it also covers the mid-life crisis saying about the 40 plus pilot with the red sports car [3 of us watching all had red sports cars] - I recognised in myself how stale I had become, I was in the zone where it would have been very easy to start increasing risks to pep up boring sorties. Fortunately, a change IS as good as a rest and I worked through it - stops you short though, when you realise it could so easily be you in this type of video doing antics like this all because you needed a bigger and bigger thrill!

That was then - a long time ago! Now, the thrill is a new delivery of paper clips! 1,2,3,4,5,6,...........

[bigmanatc]

I`m not a chopper driver....but I don`t see any real risky flying in this video.....seems fairly ..."tame " to me......maybe thats cause I`m from Africa and I`ve been in Vultures Retreat......as a pax......mind blowing.....

[imabell]

i follow a better route than that just getting to work each day:=

[Ned-Air2Air]

Interesting reading all these comments about that video.

Will let you in on a little secret, I have actually been on that flight, and shot it from inside that helo, and from outside from another helo.

The flight was not a one off for some tourists, but a regular thing for visitors to where the helo is based.

Yes the pilot is very very experienced and I know him well and would fly with him again in a heartbeat.

Not being a licenced pilot I will not, and would not comment on the right or wrong of his flying, can only vouch for what I know of the individual.

There are a few people here on the forum who know exactly who he is and know him very well.

Cheers

Ned

[Barndweller]

It all boils down to risk management.
All flying is risk management as is just about everything in life. As soon as the blades start turning, there is a risk factor. That factor increases and decreases dependant on the circumstances. It's up to the Pilot to decide whether the risk is appropriate to the task. It's also up to the pilot to make that decision on behalf of his passengers taking into account their best interests rather than their wishes.
As a professional pilot (350 rated) it is my opinion that there were several instances in this video where an engine failure or other serious malfunction including jack-stall would have resulted in the destruction of the aircraft and serious or fatal injury of those on board. We all know that Turbomecca, whilst reliable, are not perfect.
Now... What constitutes the passengers best interests under these circumstances?
We've all done things like that when we're crew only on board, however we have a duty to our passengers to know what is good for them even if they don't and to make a responsible decision with regard to the risks that we expose them to.
It's only a matter of time before someone finds a video like that in smouldering wreckage of such a flight.
BD

[strop]

WHAT IF, WHAT IF, WHAT IF. Bloody hell !! What if a tile fell off the space shuttle and hit you in the head ? should you stop walking out my front door each morning? For @#$& sake you may as well get a thrill out of live when you can! Not all of us want to be a boring stick in the mud prats. So what if they bite it, at least they go out having a blast. Life goes on, no one lives forever you know:E

[Bitmonx]

Strop......maybe not all of the pax wanted to have a roller coaster ride? Let's get it straight, it was a scenic flight (I assume). I believe your comment was a rather selfish one. We pilots must give all our customers the feeling that they are safe. I would like to know the comments of the pax of this particular flight if they would have given a full postflight briefing on what could have happened...
If a pilot wants to hot dog around he should charter the bird for himself and do whatever he wants over open ground. Then its all about having fun and not showing off!! :ok:

[SHortshaft]

A few points I would like to make about some of the comments on the ride:

1. The scenic flight business is very much dependent on ‘word of mouth’ advertising. We have seen it here on pprune where one rotorhead asks others who to fly with in Las Vegas or Hawaii.

2. I would think by the way most passengers had their cameras out that they had some idea of what they were in for; and probably that is why they were there.

3. ‘Non-scheduled public transport’, as we call ‘scenic flights’ in my part of the world, is regarded by insurers as inherently dangerous. It is excluded from most standard ‘travel insurance’ policies.

4. It can be argued that nothing in the video was dangerous unless there was an in-flight emergency. The same can be said for all forms of airline, sea, rail or road travel. Does the helicopter industry need another bout of self-flagellation?

5. If there is concern that a forced landing following a malfunction may lead to ‘issues’ then lets consider what issues need to be addressed if that forced landing was perfectly successful. It seems to me that they are flying over a pretty remote area where ‘rescue’ might be slow in coming. In which case should we be worried about the capability of the passengers to endure the survival phase before the rescue – I think not.

[Ned-Air2Air]

Shortshaft - Good points, and just for your info, the driving time from the main lodge of where that helo operates from, to anywhere on the property is about 30 mins and its all pretty accessible.

In addition the peelot in question follows the same route every time so those at the lodge know where he is going and he checks in by radio etc.

And yes the guests who go on this flight know pretty much what to expect as its explained to them at the lodge before they even get onto the helicopter.

Just thought you would like to know

[karroo]

Hi again!!

After one year, this is the first time a see this thread after I started.
1st of all I have to thanks all replys, threads like this just makes us better pilots. After reading this and other threads (fortunatly I read the one about jack stall before post this one) I realise one more time that generaly the problem it is not if you are doing well or wrong, question is if you know what are you doing. That ´s why we are always learning.
2nd Keep them coming.

Thanks again

[Mr.Challenger]

Hi Folks,

Cx this one out...

http://www.eblogx.de/index.php?action=video&clip=media/videos/tiefflug.wmv

Have Fun

[hotzenplotz]

The Pilot in the Africa video is taking his hands off the controls in several cases.

He seems to be too self-confident for my taste.

[scottishbeefer]

Strop - Congratulations! You have just become my COTM. It may well take someone of your intellect a while to work this abbreviation out.

Shortshaft - Sorry, you only came second. "Nothing Dangerous" (?!) You should take that act on tour, there may be some other like-minded individuals who would enjoy hearing more of your pearls.

Folks, I'm truly sorry that aviation has a pair of cowboys like you remotely associated with it.

[SASless]

Well boys....paint me Blue and hang a sign around my neck! I for one fail to see just what the feller did wrong. You climb onto a Ferris Wheel or Roller Coaster you expect it to be a thrill ride....exactly the same in this deal. For one....I "LOVE" whizzing about (or in some cases...merely clattering about) the treetops or below. I use my wits (what few that haven't been beaten out of me yet by Bell products) and never fly the route until I have done a recon (recce for you of the Tea Drinkers) and always prepare myself for flight by considering "what if's". I am also prepared to give it up at any time for any reason if things are not just right. All a paying passenger has to say...is "Whoa...Uncle!" and thrill ride ends.

The reason we do what we do is for the sheer enjoyment of it.....as the pay and benefits sure fail to measure up. I see this guy having a good time and doing it very professionally. The one thing I fault him for....is doing it in an A-Splat and not something really fast and agile like a MadDog. (Now that is a fun machine for such shenannigans!)

Anytime you fly a single engine machine...you take a risk of having a forced landing due to an engine failure...public transport flying and thrill ride giving are two different endeavours. I have done both ....and use completely different techniques for each.

As Ned has described....they do it in a professional manner....that is good enough for me.

The Puma video is good...and must have been good fun making. When the Statue of Limitations runs out...I might provide some done while flying a Huey a few years ago. Part of the sequence was on the Discovery Channel.

[IntheTin]

Loved the Puma vid. Great stuff. I'm sure to get grief for saying it, but thats what I imagined fun to be! :E

Great soundtrack too.

[scottishbeefer]

SAS my dear chap - you just edged SHortshaft out. I had presumed your vast number of posts somehow indicated you were a wise man of rotary aviation.

To be polite, this is not the case.

How sad that there may be unsuspecting PPruners out there who consider that your words have weight.

Watch those spurs don't catch the yaw pedals pardner.

[remote hook]

Apart from taking his hands off, and a couple of the line choices, I really don't see the issue.

If you chase animals around for capture, do film work, or many other jobs, you fly in those environments all the time. Know you're enivronment, know your limits and those of the machine you're flying.

RH

[scottishbeefer]

If by line choices you mean a vertical climb <50 yds from the cliff while facing it then I think we're on the same wavelength.

If by no issue you mean no issue with more than slightly risking the lives of the pax, who might have had the plan explained but would have no idea of the consequence of a mal - then we're not.

Chasing animals, filmwork etc don't tend to have too many fare-payers do they?

Kill yourselves by all means fellas (the chances are high - although I'm sure in your own estimation you're all great polers, no doubt you've got some great tales to tell eh?) - leave the public out of it.

[SASless]

Beefer,

You failed to read the post I fear....there is "cowboying" and there is "low flying". One is done impromptu and without due care and circumspection where the other is done with all consideration of the risks and ramifications of operating close to terrain and obstacles. If I also told you of having done it at night....I would imagine you would have a Grand Mal Seizure. Military pilots and some civilian pilots do this kind of flying daily and nightly...as a common way of doing business.

When one pushes the limits but does so with great care and circumspection....it is an altogether different thing than being the "cowboy". One can become a slave to regimentation and think all is well. I would hate to think I never had the sheer pleasure this kind of flying can provide.

I would suggest throwing water at a raging forest fire in the high mountains during summer time while flying a forty year old aircraft toting a 150 foot longline might also scare you away too. However, that is a common practice amongst my peers....and the one thing we all have in common usually is a lot of gray hair, raggedty beards, and lots and lots of flying away from airports.

If one is not comfortable doing challenging work with helicopters, then by all means stick to what you are comfortable with but do not suggest that those who do the utility flying do so without ability, professionalism, or a very healthy respect for safety. It is demanding work and most unforgiving of mistakes.

You might realize I hope, that flying a clean aircraft at high speed close to the ground is far easier and safer than hovering out of ground effect with a longline. Probably upon reflection and analysis of the various issues surrounding the kind of flying I am talking about here....you might come to a realization that doing it...and talking about it are two completely different things.

The common thread to this topic seems to be...those that have done this kind of flying seem not to be off put by the video...whereas those that have no exposure to it, all seem taken aback by it. Take yourself out to a fire and watch what goes on sometime....North Sea flying is a completely different kettle of fish.

But...in reality...I guess there are helicopter pilots...and there are Helicopter Pilots. The difference is definitely in "attitude" and "experience".

When I did my CAA medical....the Quack made a comment about my "Cowboy" boots (a very nice pair of Tony Lama's they wuz)....and I told him that just because I wore Cowboy boots....did not mean I flew like one. That was in 1976....and nothing has changed since then.

[scottishbeefer]

SAS - it was hard to tell in the video, but was there a drill on the front of that chopper? That was the only way that boy was going to get out of the engine coughing in front of a cliff.

Although I'm sure you find it hard to accept, some of the rest of us have also dragged our sorry asses out of bed to do some scary flying, generally with a real need. I totally accept your point about utility drivers, firefighting, long-liners et al - however, if you are going to try to tell me that video is a show piece for professional aviation then I refer you to your 2nd place.

I'm all for having a good time when airborne, just not at the expense of the lives of all the other folks on board. You can't really cover up lousy flying just by saying you take "due care etc". Or maybe you can?

Not sure the Grand Mal is inbound just yet old-timer. You and the other pilots that supposedly define the "real" drivers just carry on posting your drivel - hopefully one or two others will start to see through it.

I told you you'd have a tale to tell - keep up the good work!

Looking forward to your next endorsement of crap flying.

SB

[strop]

scottishbeefer,

I think you over rate your own importance ! Oh and maybe you could try and work this one out "TOSSA" :mad:

[SHortshaft]

Scottishbeefer,

Oh dear…down to 3rd in your COMT club awards. Guess I’ll have to try harder!

Can I have another go!

Have you thought that if you are really concerned about an engine failure (in a single engine turbine) then the only place you won’t be going, after the event in a low speed/high power climb, is straight ahead. If you manage to stop the yaw within the first 90 degrees then I reckon you are pretty much on the ball. The same goes for a tail rotor malfunction (that one is for Mr. Lappos).

But then as our French friends say “it never happens”!!!

There…is that worth 2nd?

[nigelh]

Scottish.....the most dangerous thing about you must be the chance of you falling asleep in that little cocoon you fly in !! I can only think that you are in the wrong line of work !! I used to fly crop dusting which involves flying straight at trees low level and usually at MAUW, some of the guys i flew with had 10,000 + hrs of that kind of flying without serious incident. The fact is it is all to do with competence and i could see nothing wrong in his flying ,videos always distort things and you needed to be there to know. As for taking his hands of the controls........unbelievable bad form ......he should have a bird up front to scratch them for him if he,s a true pro !!:E

[Bronx]

ScottishBeefer
SAS's vast number of posts? Number of posts doesn't mean anything. Some very experienced guys join in discussions a lot, some now and again. Some low timers post all the time, some mainly read and learn.
How sad that there may be unsuspecting PPruners out there who consider that your words have weight.
In case you missed it, this was posted by someone else about SASless, not by him.10,000+ hours including 2000 US Army instructing, two Chinook combat tours in Vietnam, four years flying Hueys in the National Guard and flying numerous types in various ops all over the world. It doesn't mean he's always right, nobody is, but it means he's entitled to more respect than you show when you say he's wrong. Ever thought of disagreeing with people without being so rude?

:rolleyes:

[remote hook]

Beef.
It sounds to me like you are one of those guys who flies around in white gloves trying hard not to spill your coffee.

Many of us routinly fly in environments where should the engine quit, the trailrotor let go, the hydraulics sieze, or any other mechanical failure occur, we are in a very precarious position. As SASless so eloquently points out, these are risks that are assessed, considered and delt with. If they are too great, which they often are, we don't go. There are countless routine jobs where the paying customer IS in considerable danger should things go wrong - but somehow we do them anyway, and the number accidents is small. I don't consider Forestry personel, Game Branch, or Geologists any different than the tourist. They are all people, and people who expect the machine to be operated in a safe, professioanl, and efficient manner - and to live through the flight.

This video aside, your attitude is one that demonstrates an acute lack of understanding and experience in these types of work. There many with far more time and experience than I, but your blanket criticism of Utility type operatioins is offensive and misguided. I personally invite you to the moutainous, and Northern regions of Canada to view these types of operations yourself. I'm sure others would be just as happy to have you over to NZ, AUS, PNG, the US, Africa, SE Asia and the many other places where helicopters are used for occasions other than straight and level.


RH

[overpitched]

Show me a high horse and I'll show you a pilot that wants to climb onto it !!!

[scottishbeefer]

So having agreed about the above, tell me again why you've got you're knickers in a twist?

Fee paying pax - wasn't that what we're talking about? Perhaps you need to read the whole post - not a blanket criticism of utility drivers was it?

I'm sure we've all scraped the treetops while getting paid for some useful flying or other - but if you do it with tourists on board, I'm afraid that makes you a schmuck.

Not overestimating my own importance at all - merely stating my opinion.

[[email protected]]

If we weren't show-offs by nature, we probably wouldn't be pilots - most military pilots go through the 'wazzing and zooming' phase a couple of years into their careers and often frighten themselves when they have a close call before backing off slightly and flying to what they perceive as an 'acceptable' risk level. The problem is that each of us has a different idea of 'acceptable' risk and it is partly due to ego and arrogance - the greater pilot you think you are, the more you believe you can handle anything and that nothing bad can happen to you (it's the same with driving a car, right up until you have a crash - then you slow down a bit).

The guy in the Africa video may be a good pilot but he assumes that because he has got away with it many times before that a. he will continue to get away with it and b. he's got to keep doing it anyway because that's what the tourists want.

The Puma stuff is a bit boring frankly - anyone can wazz at 5' over flat terrain with no obstacles, it's not skilfull but it is fun when you have your hands on the poles.

Horses for courses - I wouldn't fly fare-paying passengers in that manner repeatedly, and I certainly wouldn't let anyone video me doing it if I did it as a one-off. The pilot seems happy to continue - it's his risk assessment.
However, it would be interesting to see the comments from the 'pro' posters on this thread if we were discussing a pilot killing 3 pax in a heli crash because he was giving them an 'interesting ride' that went wrong.

[scottishbeefer]

Concur with Crab.

Just to wrap up my input to this thread, SAS - I'm sure you've been called worse, I have! No (significant) offence - just the impestuosity of (relative) youth.

Strop, let's just remind ourselves of your beautiful prose:

"WHAT IF, WHAT IF, WHAT IF. Bloody hell !! What if a tile fell off the space shuttle and hit you in the head ? should you stop walking out my front door each morning? For @#$& sake you may as well get a thrill out of live when you can! Not all of us want to be a boring stick in the mud prats. So what if they bite it, at least they go out having a blast. Life goes on, no one lives forever you know"

Try the Wannabe forum, find out how you can get your licence and then see if you like flying. Good luck fella - I think you might need it.

SB out

[strop]

scottishbeefer

Nice try.... but I'm happy with the way things are going after fifteen years of flying. Maybe you should find out how to get a brain of some use! Then you could pick a wind up ! :mad:

[R22DRIVER]

Top Puma Vid!!!!

Now thats what i call a fun flying video! I know the guy in Africa may be very experianced but flying hands off with Pax is a tad silly!!!

Get me in the Puma any day!!!!!

I bet those truck drivers Shat themsevles when that beast came thundering over them at 120kts!!:ok:

R22

[wishtobflying]

And then there's the story of some *ahem* Army aviators in the Northern Territory flying B47's (gives you an idea how old this story is), returning from training exercises over a long straight bit of highway, coming down from above and behind a car, matching the speed, until they were flying along directly over the car with the skids almost touching the roof, frightening the living daylights out of the occupants of the car. Imagine the embarrasment when they tried to do it again with a headwind, and in the old B47 weren't able to match the speed of the car - cue nonchalent peeling off to allow car to continue unmolested.

[nigelh]

R22

yes you can take your hands off in a REAL helicopter !! I hear that some people even fly with the cyclic between their knees !!:ooh: but again i think only in a real one...

[SASless]

I bet some hands are off the sticks while the boys are scarfing down their scran from the rigs...and that is for sure a longer time than seen in the video.

A "Look Ma...No Hands!" thingy is not to be compared to getting down a proper Nosh from the North Sea rigs.

[R22DRIVER]

Its alright for you guys flying hands off in your nice autopiloted helis!! But i wouldnt even dare in my 22! Ive seen more stability in a drinken hobo than in my little clunker!!!

No but seriously guys, flying hands off whilst manouvering like that with Pax is just asking for him to get bit in the ass!!!

R22:eek:

[bigmanatc]

Well....from an observers point of view....if the donkey quits...surely the main reaction is from the tail rotor which he`s feet were ready to counter and then the collective needs to get pushed down pretty quickly , he`s left hand is there already....so its he`s right hand here and that only needs to get to the cyclic...which is right there...and what reaction is the cyclic going to make to the donkey quitting...? not too much I think...
I have been on board an Aloutte whilst an instructor did a demo of an auto rotation...those days it was the real thing...fuel off...engine dies and down you go....have to land...no flaring at 50ft and going around.....anyway...the instructor...AW, a legend ....did it hands off the cyclic...knees only...and that included the turn into wind and descent....only used hands again for the touchdown...point was to show the student that its not such a sweat....to get him to relax....So I reckon all the hype is a bit over the top. Vultures Retreat is scary, if you lose the donkey in there you are in ****e...and thats part of a training syllabus.....this vid is tame.

[Tokunbo]

scottishbeefer,
hm.... beefer. OK big deal, you are or were a military QHI. Crab probably was it? Scottish hmmm flying big machines on really exciting 2 hour drones out to offshore platforms? Matbe I've got you wrong - maybe you longline with PDG out of Inverness? Know SASless, concur with his remarks. Even in military days remember when the crabs didn't come and get me out of a tight spot. SASless was well known in Vietnam. None of the pax looked to be anything other than happy, cameras always foreshorten distances, always looked to be plenty of places to put down. You should volunteer to take over the number 2 slot. Maybe you should be considering a career flying 747s - you don't seem to be cut from the cloth of which real helicopter pilots are made.

[nigelh]

A lot of pilots on this site seems to have this a fetish about engine failures and getting the collective down quickly !!! Firstly dare i say it, but most of these guys are much more likely to bang it into auto ...dump the lever etc for something other than a flame out. They will do it with partial loss of power, lights coming on or even just a thumpthrough the pedals:sad: :sad: The facts are that an engine failure just as you are hot dogging towards the cliff are one in a million and even if that did happen I for one would NOT be looking to drop the lever!!! The guy in the vid knows that he has ample time to do that because the first thing he will do is a sharp flare to a) stop belying towards cliff and b) to gain altitude. He may even use MORE collective to keep rrpm down. Then he will do a torque turn and auto down safely.....hopefully. Keeping collective up and using cyclic to convert speed to hight does not seem to be taught now but is the norm for low flying. IF you have your hand ON the collective you may be conditioned to dump it.......then you do crash & burn. IMHO