Twu?

[flashy]

Hi long time reader first time poster,

Just wondering if their were any QF boys who might be able to give some info on TWU fees and how it is working out?

With Aipa unable to bargain a decent payrise, with it's close :hmm: working relationship with the company, It might be time to look at the value for money of those union subs

Ta,

[Mud Skipper]

Flashy,

Havn't taken the step yet but also been considering. Believe it's about $200 or so a year.

I don't even think it's a cost issue though, I just would not want AIPA backing me in a stoush with the company when they appear, in my opinion, to be sleeping together.

EBA 7 is not looking good & with luck might get voted down.
Ideally we could sack the Com and start again rather than throwing out the baby with the bath water.... can't see this happening though.

An option I'm considering is to just become non-financial & donating the difference to say the Outback Air Museum.
That way they could not justify to themselves you are just penny pinching but actually protesting:D

[bonvol]

The QF pilots are collectively too apathetic to either sack the COM or move en masse to the TWU. A few have signed up with the TWU though.

One problem with a union representing only one group of pilots is the election of the Pres. In QF there is no popular vote with the Pres elected by COM.

In the heyday of the AFAP the Pres had to campaign for his election with the TAA, AN,EWA,IPEC pilots etc. A much more transparent system. No Pres ever defected to management that I can remember.

A normal career option for an AIPA Pres these days is to switch to the other side and get on the bonus gravy train. The apathetic line pilots have witnessed this a few times now, with associated repurcussions, but have yet to draw the line in the sand. Slow learners.

[rescue 1]

"no pres defected..." Bonvol, I think that some management types at VB were.

[Dark Knight]

The president of the AFAP was elected by the members of the annual covention and he certainly had to campaign amongst them for support and their votes.

Members of Convention were the elected representatives of each Branch committee.

However, Bonvol is correct that no President ever defected to management .

Interesting how the wheel keeps turning with pilots yet again joining the TWU. More importantly, in a related subject of `Racing to the Bottom' a few people should review and perhaps learn the history of pilot/ management relationships starting back to the 1930s. (not just here, read the excellent books & articles from ALPA)

And don't forget to pause for a thorough reading of Eastern Airlines, Continental, Pan Am, TWA, etc. with reference to the management practices taught in the `Frank Lorenzo School of Airline Management' where Strong & Dixon graduated with distinction. (Ansett management after Abeles failed miserably except those who went to QF)

Those who call for a strong, unified union need a monumental reality check as a union is only as stong as its memebers and their unity.

A union with weak memebers, a union without a united sense of direction, a union which within it has members who have demonstrated they care liitlle for their fellow man forming a cancer within, is doomed to failure.

Management recognising and understanding these weaknesses can, and will, exploit them ruthlessly.

It is little use whinging and whining about it if you are not prepared to pay.

Losers whine about the past and what could be, winners go home and fcuk the Prom Queen!

DK

[bonvol]

Dark Knight,

I'm not sure how the AFAP operates now but (scratches head) I seem to recollect troops casted a vote for the Pres (pre 89) as ordinary line drivers and convention just concerned itself with debating papers etc.

You may be right though, its a while ago.

As for the VB blokes, I don't think they qualify in the same manner as the QF combatants. At least the VB blokes went to different companies and had a good stint overseas in the interim.

[Dark Knight]

Bonvol

We are sort of both correct, the memory fades with time.

If I am correct prior to '89 Convention elected the President (of that I am sure having partaken in many `Nights of the Long Knives)' and with the industrial relations changes flowing from '89-90 then the officers of the AFAP were elected directly by the membership.

You are correct that no AFAP President ever defected to management, the main point of your posting, as you are correct rebutting the VB analogy.

DK

[Kaptin M]

Maybe no Presidents, but names such as http://pprune.org/forums/images/icons/x.gif Coyote Lenhttp://pprune.org/forums/images/icons/x.gif , and http://pprune.org/forums/images/icons/x.gif Wang Kinghttp://pprune.org/forums/images/icons/x.gif (BNE Branch Chairman) will remain etched in the black history of Australian aviation.
Was Mike Terrell ex-AFAP office bearer?

[Dark Knight]

KM

Please don't give coyote's a bad name, it was LJC as in `Judas'

Equally etched in memory is the result of the infamous `fat man' remark.

As between interogation and interview there is a big difference between defection & scabbing!

DK

[bonvol]

Steady Kap, I'm trying to eat my lunch.

I have recollections Mike was at some stage but will have to check.