PNG : Flying in Papua New Guinea

[faheel]

I just found this little snippet in the Courier Mail in Brisbane.
Does not look like a good company to work for does it? :sad:

Grieving widoow told to pay up for crashed
helicopter

15jun99

THE widow of a pilot killed in a Papua New Guinea air
crash was told she should pay for the wrecked helicopter.

Kristina Tannreuther said Pacific Helicopters managing
director Mal Smith told her that the helicopter was
under-insured "and I should pay him back because
Michael crashed it".

She said Mr Smith – who is standing as an Independent
candidate in a PNG byelection under the slogan "You
Shall Be Looked After" – had not even said he was sorry
for what happened or that her husband was a good pilot.

Ms Tannreuther has been paid just $14,000 insurance
under PNG workers compensation for the death of her
husband, Michael Geuder.

Captain Geuder, 45, of Dreamtime Beach, Kingscliff, died
on May 6 when his helicopter crashed on Mt Wilhelm in
the PNG Highlands. The only passenger, Rick Warnett, of
Cairns, survived.

German-born Captain Geuder, who had more than 6000
hours experience, moved to the Gold Coast to work for
Pacific Helicopters on a month-on, month-off basis.

Legal action is proceeding from another Gold Coast family
after the death of another Pacific pilot in a 1998 crash in
Indonesia.

Pacific employs 30 pilots and 12 engineers, most from
Queensland.

Ms Tannreuther said Mr Geuder was told by company
officials he had a death cover of $US100,000, a figure
confirmed by other pilots and company officials, including
former general manager Mike Conomos.

Mr Smith, speaking from Goroka, said yesterday: "Why
are you helping these people – she (Kristina) is a German
living in America. What next, are you going to do it for an
Israeli?"

In a previous written response, Mr Smith said the
company did have a personal accident policy of up to
$US100,000.

But he said it was not an individual death policy but an
accident policy which covered company expenses when a
mishap occurred such as an urgent medivac, medical
attention or flying a body home.

He said it was "suggested" to Capt Geuder that his salary
include a "death policy should he so wish and to organise
it in his own country of residence".

Ms Tannreuther denied this and in January last year,
Pacific Helicopters issued a memo to all staff advising
that the company provided "personal accident coverage
for the protection of you and your family" .

Pacific pilots and staff have sent a letter of protest to
the company saying they are "disgusted and alarmed at
the lack of sympathy displayed by senior management".

The letter said the matter had had "a devastating effect
on loyalty and morale throughout the company".

Mr Smith refused to provide a safety record of his
business to The Courier-Mail, saying every minor incident
over 25 years had been recorded and it would take too
long.

"I appreciate your sincerity towards German citizens
residing in America and working in Papua New Guinea and
hope this is of interest to Australian readers," he wrote.

[barsandstars]

Unbelievable!

Their reputation has never been great, and after this I guess they deserve this type of advertising to warn as many fellow aviators as possible. Pacific, you have to change.

[Bill212]

I hope you didn't mind me relaying your message. I know several pilots working for Pacific Helicopters in PNG.

Thank you for the information.

Best Regards
Bill

[George Semel]

That take's the cake, screwing a widow out of the insurance, then have the gall to send a bill for the helicopter. Sounds like a real Chicom operation. I have worked for some real winners but this one takes it.

[Island flyer]

Does any one have any info re their requirements please.

[VSQUARED]

Drop me an email I know their OZ Chief pilot and may be able to help. I have also operated in PNG and can give you some info on the country if required.

[Island flyer]

Thanks, managed to speak to them today,appreciate your reply

[MCA]

Hi all,
I have been hearing some conflicting reports about what’s happening up in Papa New Guinea. I also herd that Pacific Helicopters has lost a few top slingers to Bolivian contracts. Any one know what’s really happening?

Cheers

[ 23 August 2001: Message edited by: MCA ]

[Semi Rigid]

Not quite Bolivia. Bouganville or North Solomon's - whichever you prefer. UN work.

[Droopstop 21]

Pacific Helicopters had 2 pilots pinched by Hevi Llift for a quasi military contract on Bougainville Island. Heli Niugini had 2 of their long line pilots go to a seismic contract somewhere in South America. By the way,
it's Papua New Guinea!

Safe flying.

[Droopstop 21]

For MCA, The B212 pilot on Bougainville from Pacific will not be operating Russian gear on the Island, just the 212. The contract on Bougainville is with the Royal Australian Army, not the UN.

Fly Safe

[Jayfer]

Does anyone know how to get in touch with these guys?? Any info much appreciated!!

[Steve76]

Sure do,
Have a couple of mates working for them. If its about work you are probably going to find it hard. PNG is in a self-induced recession and most of these guys are happy just to have a job. E-mail me for more.

[GIMPOSH]

Jayfer. Drop me an E-Mail and I will see if I can help you there!!

JT

[w_ocker]

If that is Jayfer The Great of SE Queensland, then g'day. I'm sitting in your old ops seat at the mo and IT SUX. If you hear anything interesting from hevilift, let me know pls pls pls!

And Gimposh... there is only one with that name. Big Boy, Little Jim, and the Towel Head are all well and say g'day...( and now you know who I am.) ;)

[ 17 September 2001: Message edited by: w_ocker ]

[Arkroyal]

Is that the original Jayfer, of Joke Flight fame?

From a fellow JF member

[sling load]

Just an enquiry as to what fleet composition Hevi Lift PNG has.

[Steve76]

Gidday,

They use 206, 206L, 205, 212, Mil 8 & 17, Kamov32 and the odd Mil 26.

They have some fixed wing as well.

:cool:

[Rotorbike]

According to a 2000-01 Shepard's Civil Helicopter Handbook I have in front of me:

Bell 206L x 9
Bell 212 x 6
Kamov Ka-32 x 5
Mil Mi-17 x 3

Don't know how current that information is.....

:D :cool:

[sling load]

Thanks guys

[international hog driver]

Just looking for contact details of the above group, not looking for a job.

Do they still have the SA330's stored or flying?

Were the 330's any good above 8000ft DA?

Need some Info from the ol' 330 drivers.

[spinningwings]

I understand the "J"s are still hiding in the back of the hanger.

I thought that they did a pretty good job....certainly above 8000' there wasn't any competition from anything with Bell stamped on it (but there were no 214Bs up there!!) having said that it was a bit hard (!) to compete with the KV107s and the Kamov32s that were there as well ...those tandem rotors could LIFT!. ;)

[All Blacks]

Spinningwings

Just an update on the 107 front, Columbia actually changed this out to a 234 some time ago.

AB

[Captain Lai Hai]

The puma's have been out of action for a very long time and
I've heard they breed chickens in them now
Those 3 Puma's did very well for Smithy but as previously mentioned above were no competition for the russian stuff

I think one of the former pilots is now working for East Asia out of Macau

Em tasol

[All Blacks]

Hey Capt Lai Hai

How are GFS going with their new toys. Is Trevor still the only expat there now and I hear the B3s of HHK are going very well.

AB

[vertalop]

The 330Js are better at altitude than at lower levels since the fuel consumption comes down to something reasonable! The performance does not drop off with altitude as much as on the 332, probably because everything is so relatively inefficient at sea level. You have to be very cautious when pulling pitch if the engines have spooled down below 76% in the descent otherwise you will be rewarded by a rather long stall and not much increase in power. My years flying the 330 in PNG highlands must have been the best 'seat of the pants' flying I will ever do.
What a shame if those three machines have ended up as chicken houses :(
Here are a few photos of those good old days:
P2-PHZ at O'Malley Peaks relay station, 11,000ft AMSL, 23rd May 1986, VR-BIG (On contract from Bristow) over Lake Kutabu with a cement hopper (C1986)
and the hangar with 2X330J and a BV107 of Colombia Helicopters
http://209.196.171.35/images/png_ar5.jpghttp://209.196.171.35/images/png_ar4.jpg
http://209.196.171.35/images/png1.jpg

[All Blacks]

Vertalop

Thats a heck of a big concrete bucket under the Puma. How much does it hold. The shot with the Vertol there of Columbias, is that the same place where the Chinook is based now.

AB

[vertalop]

AB,

Sorry, can't remember the technical details of the rig bits and pieces. I think it weighed about 4500lbs empty, if they managed to get all the cement out. The max we could lift at 5000ft was about 5000lbs with enough fuel to do the trip and not much more. If the load didn't want to fly at a reasonable speed a bit of creative thinking was needed!!

I am not in touch with where the operations have moved to now.

Vert

[Captain Lai Hai]

GFS have just started operating the new EC 155's (5 I think) in addition to the 2 Super Puma's which they've had on line for a while
Very nice equipment and it should be I suppose at close to US$ 80 mil although I've heard the Puma's are having big reliability problems at the moment.
Local private operators are asking the question why HK needs such overkill ( including over 400 hundred employees) for such a small area especially with the concern the HK Gov. has with budget deficits and a very slow economy.

Trev is still with them but mainly in a C&T role I believe.
Nice guy very professional
If you knew the money he is on you would weep but he deserves every cent from what I've heard its like to be working there

Chinese bosses generally do not have a good reputation by westerners standards for the way they treat their workers

Vertalop what years were you with Pacific?

[spinningwings]

Ahhhh .....the memories of POROMA Camp!!!!! ...( noise, smell, more noise, guts ache, even more noise ...)>... and that was before the Russkies arrived!

[sprocket]

All Blacks: That big bucket looks more like the beer rations on its way to the “Poroma (by the sea) Yacht Club” :D

Vertalop: Great pics, I was there up to the end of ’86, after Tari. [In fact, the bottom pic looks a bit like Tari].
Is that Lake Kutubu in the background ? – I remember there were native burial sites in the cliffs around the edge.

There was also a waterfall in that area that just disappeared into a big hole in the ground. Never did see where it came out.

[gulliBell]

The Pacific 330's were torched in the GKA hanger last year, the culprit being a disguntled former employee as it turned out. The insurance company was suspicious and wanted to know where all the missing bits and pieces that were unaccountered for in the ashes, but they paid up in the end. The 330's are no more, and Mal got his insurance money. As for NC, yes, he is still in Macau, I'm sure he monitors this forum.

[international hog driver]

Thanks fellas, the questions have been answered, it only leeds to more questions.

We already have our hands on KA-32s for the job, but we still require a 330 (or 2) so if anyone knows if there are any hiding in the back of a hanger somewhere mail me.

Cheers and Happy New Year.

[All Blacks]

The latest on the Pumas is as follows. Two were destroyed in the fire that a disgruntled employee is rumoured to have set. The third one escaped becoming charcoal as is currently for sale, but Mal wants too much for it.

Some guy from Eurocopter came down to look at it but because it has been so long since it has flown the reality is it would probably cost more to get it flying again than it would to buy a new aircraft.

I am currently here in Pt Moresby and this came from Otto the base manager here, so there you have it folks, straight from the horses mouth, so to speak.

AB

[Captain Lai Hai]

Nev

Please give my regards to Otto.

Last time I spoke to him was just after the hijacking in POM when some bandits forced him to land on one of the banks to assist their comrades in a bank job that cost them the ultimate price in the end
10 points for the idea but 0 for the execution which was the conclusion for some of them LOL

PS Sounds like GOV. Mal hasn't changed

[All Blacks]

Otto was saying things are pretty quiet there now. Hevilift is the biggest operator and Pacific are down to around 10 machines. Hevilift have also offloaded the KA-32s to Heli Niugini and are now using Mi-8s (trying to get them certified - but thats pushing sh!t uphill).

The Columbia Chinook operation is going well. Spent the last three days with them doing a drill rig move for Santos from Kuri up to the top of the escarpments. Used at Heli Niugini 206L as photo ship. Wouldnt have wanted an engine failure over that countryside:eek:

PNG Police 407 is hangarbound awaiting parts from what I was told. Heli Niugini is busy with a lot of seismic work. Many reckon Islands wont be around for much longer and rumour has it Mal is not interested in Pacific that much anymore and it wont be long before the doors are shut. Remember these are heresay so take it for what its worth.

AB

[bellsux]

Just heard that John Twitt from Pacific Helicopters had a fatal accident out of Lae in Papua New Guinea last Friday. Apparently his Lama crashed near Bumbu and sunk in 10m of water whilst doing a job for the US Army's Central Identification Laboratory. The three Army passengers survived the accident. I personally only met John a few times whilst in PNG but he seemed a very decent sort of guy.

[Steve76]

I read elsewhere that a machine of PACIFICS crashed out of Lae last week.
Does anyone know who the pilot was and any further details?
Thanks.... I have mates out there.

[Ian Corrigible]

From ArmyLINK:

HICKAM AFB, Hawaii (Army News Service, May 9, 2003) - A helicopter contracted by the U.S. Army Central Identification Laboratory carrying five personnel crashed into the ocean off the coastline of Lae, Papua New Guinea, May 8.

A 13-member CILHI team was in Papua New Guinea to excavate the crash site of a World War II B-24 bomber. Aboard the helicopter that crashed were three personnel from the U.S. Army Central Identification Laboratory, a representative from the Papua New Guinea National Museum and a Pacific Helicopter pilot.

The pilot was killed, one of the CILHI personnel was injured and is in stable condition at Angau Memorial Hospital, Lae, and the others are in good condition.

The helicopter had just taken off and was a few minutes into flight when it crashed. The aircraft was en route to the site of the 1943 plane crash, which the team was surveying before moving in its recovery personnel and equipment.

The weather was not believed to be a contributing factor in the crash, officials said.

The CILHI team in Papua New Guinea consists of a team leader, team sergeant, two medics, two forensic anthropologists, an explosive ordnance disposal technician, a photographer, a communication technician, a mechanic and several mortuary affairs specialists.

Nine service members were believed to have been on board the II B-24D aircraft that went down in 1943. CILHI located the crash site in the mountains near Yalumet Village in the Morobe Province during an investigation in April 2002.

A representative from the Morobe Provincial Government Protocol Office turned over personal affects believed to be associated with the crash site in March of 2002. The representative later escorted a CILHI investigative team to the crash site that is located at an elevation of about 10,800 feet.

The B-24 bomber and its crew are believed to have belonged to the 43rd Bomb Group, 63rd Bomb Squadron. The aircraft left Dobodura, New Guinea on an armed reconnaissance mission flying over Kavieng, New Ireland and was returning to Dobodura when it went missing. A pilot, co-pilot, navigator, bombardier, and five gunners were aboard when the aircraft crashed.

Following its helicopter crash, CILHI team has suspended operations and will be returning to Hawaii.

Over the years the lab has identified approximately 110 American WWII service members recovered in Papua New Guinea.

RIP.

[gulliBell]

Pilot ‘medical finding’

INVESTIGATORS in the helicopter crash at sea near Lae city last Friday suspect that the pilot may have been “medically incapacitated” while airborne.
Senior Aircraft Accident Investigator with the Bureau of Air Safety Investigations Alan Yarnold, who was in Lae at the weekend to carry out preliminary investigations on the crash, said there is strong suspicion the pilot may have suffered a medical condition soon after take off, which stopped him from controlling the aircraft.
The pilot, John Twitt, formerly of Melbourne, Australia, who had worked with the Pacific Helicopters for four years, was pronounced dead on arrival at the Angau Memorial Hospital, after CPR at the crash site failed.
His four passengers, including three US army officers and an officer from the PNG National Museum, survived.
Mr Yarnold said the term “medically incapacitated” was to mean any medical condition that would have stopped the pilot from controlling the aircraft, such as a stroke.
He said from Madang, where he is heading investigations into the two Islands Airways plane crashes recently, there had been nothing wrong with the helicopter and apparently no engine problems.
He said the US army officers on board the helicopter were very experienced men with many hours travel in helicopters and would have known if there was an engine problem. The pilot had not sounded any warning of the helicopter developing problems.
source:http://www.postcourier.com.pg/

[gulliBell]

Crash pilot's body in Sydney for autopsy

THE Air Safety Investigation Branch of the Transport Department will be carrying out further investigations after the results of an autopsy on the body of the Australian pilot are released late this week.
Senior Accident Investigator, Allan Yarnold said yesterday that the pilot identified as John Twit's body is currently in Sydney, New South Wales undergoing a post-mortem.
Mr Twit is from Melbourne, Australia and was employed by the Pacific Helicopters.
Mr Yarnold suspected that the pilot was incapacitated before the plane crashed into the sea and he was still alive when he was brought to the beach.
He was bleeding from his nose and a CPR was done to try and resuscitate him.
He was pronounced dead on arrival at the Angau Memorial Hospital.
His passengers - the three US army officers and an official from the National Museum were checked and released.
After an interview with the survivors, Mr Yarnold said from Madang yesterday that there was "no problem with the helicopter" and they got themselves out of the plane and swam to the surface of the sea.
"There was nothing mechanically wrong and no signs of engine problems," said Mr Yarnold.
He said the US Army Central Identification Laboratory team has been serving the force for years and they were highly experienced to handle themselves when they encountered such situations._
Mr Yarnold said the survivors told him that the pilot did notify them in the plane that there was danger and the plane would be crashing into the sea.
He said they also did not notice that the plane was going into the water until they realised that they in the water._
Assistant Commissioner of Police, commander Raphael Huafolo released a statement on Friday, saying the helicopter owned by Pacific Helicopters crashed into the sea off Sipaia village on the outskirts of Lae, Morobe province between 7.45am and 8.00am.
He said Mr Twit had died and Greg Fox, one of the US Army soliders was in critical condition and admitted at the Intensive Care Unit at Lae's Angau Memorial Hospital. He was recovering. The other three were checked and discharged.
The three US Army soldiers are members of the War relic Team operating in the country.
The US Embassy also released a statement yesterday saying that the army team has suspended operations and will be returning to Hawaii.
An official from the US Embassy, Theodore Pierce said yesterday that the crash would not jeopardise their commitment to excavate the crash site of a WWII B-24D aircraft that went down in 1943.
source:http://www.thenational.com.pg

[Nigel Osborn]

I knew a John Twitt who worked as a TAA traffic officer in Goroka in the late 60s and was keen to learn to fly. I guess he would be in his mid to late 50s now. What that be the same John? The one I knew was a great fun bloke but all very sad regardless.

[ApocalypseThen]

A witness on the beach reported that the area was in heavy rain at the time of the crash. The vision through the Lama's "bubble"
can be severely degraded under these conditions . A very
similar fatal Lama crash from low level occurred in Hong Kong
some years ago.

[rotorboy]

Anyone have current email/tel or web page for either Hevi-lift or Pacific helicopters. Someone said something the other day that they were now one. I cant find Hevi-lifts web page anymore.

Also any thoughts from people who have been there, would they go back. Was it a worth while experience?

Thanks

RB

[Captain Lai Hai]

Pacific Helicopter ops number 675 7321833

I don't know about a merger although there were discussions about it when I was there in the 90's
It seems the greed factor in management on both sides cut the idea short fairly quickly.

PNG is a spectactular country and the flying is very stimulating challenging and rewarding from sea level up to near 15000' isa plus 20 but it can be fatally unforgiving as well.

Have no desire to go back only because of the way the place is being run into the ground by those greedy lying politicians whose only concern is how they can rip off the white man and kill and pack rape any thing that moves.

Pacific Helicopters ,Hevilift, Heli New Guinea all very good operators with good equipment and maintenance attitudes.


Fly safe

[Jimmy Neutron]

Sometimes news travels a little slowly. I new John well whilst working at Islands/Nationair back in 1996. I had lost contact with him after leaving PNG but was always hopeful of crossing paths sometime in the future. The news of his death has saddened me deeply and left an unfinished chapter. I will forever regret not getting in contact with you and catching up on old times. For now with a drink in my hand, cheers! I will miss you mate! RIP

PS Does anyone know where John has been laid to rest? I would like to pay my respects to him.

[autosync]

Must check it out and add it to my collection.
Cheers for the heads up mate!

[wishtobeflying]

http://www.hevilift.com.au/ looks okay to me and has info on the Contact page. If it was hijacked it looks like they got their act together and fixed it in a hurry.

SLC.

[autosync]

Dammit, I was looking foward to that!

[Too Cloudy]

This is the current one www.cxl.com.pg/home/hevilift/default.asp

[The Nr Fairy]

What's so heavy at hevilift.com that they need helicopters ? Or is that too easy ? :D

[Steve76]

What's going on in PNG lately.

My sources have all left Hevilift complaining about management (as usual...) and I hear that Pacific and HeliN are going great guns?

Dave Chin is hanging around here at the moment. When do you guys want him back?;)

Is Dick Anderson still touring out of Rabaul?

Who is paying the best and what are the rotations like?

Thanks for the replies.

Steve

[rotorboy]

Steve,
If you find out let me know .I too am curious. We were just talking abou PNG yesterday. Base MGR was there in 89 and was getting me all fired up.....

I thought you were married!.. Png 'll be healthy for that:ok:

May want to leave that stuff for us young , non-girlfriend/partner, camp living, brush apes.



Or is EMS getting a little boring

:E

Is Pacific sill flying Lamas, do they have any Astars?

RB

[spinwing]

Is Dave Chinn still as big as his brother Dan...

did a "water bucket check" with Dave (or was it Dan?) just out of Poroma in a Hu 500 I think we went to 8500 or 9000' for that ....mmmmm the things we did/do! ... :cool:

[ylhelico]

Hey Bloke!

How are you doing? Do you like your new job? By the way, where is it? What is it?

Give us some news,

And have fun!

See ya!

Lavallee!

[Heliport]

BosNewsLife report Indonesia Christians Mourn U.S. Pilot as Investigations Continue into Helicopter Crash

JAKARTA, INDONESIA -- Investigations continue into the reasons of a helicopter crash which killed 30 year old American mission pilot Neil Roesler in Indonesia's remote eastern Papua province.
Early news reports said that the Bell helicopter owned by the Swiss evangelical Helimission went down during a storm in the mountainous Soba-Ninia district
The helicopter was last heard from at 4:15 pm (0915 GMT) Monday, about 15 minutes before it was due to land in Wamena town, Jonathan Raney, of Mission Aviation Fellowship (MAF) told reporters.

MAF and other missionary agencies and Freeport Indonesia mining firm's Airfast, began a search at first light Tuesday and recovered the body just after noon.
They spotted the downed chopper near Soba village in a mountain pass leading to the Wamena Valley, Raney said, adding he had no details on the pilot's mission or the cause of the crash, AFP reported.

Roesler was the only passenger on board. He leaves behind his wife Sandy and their two young children, who are two years and eight months old.

Much of Papua province is covered by vast tropical forests. There are few roads and air travel is common, news reports said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38651000/gif/_38651161_papua_indonesia_map150.gif

[Flying Lawyer]

Evangelical Alliance Mission announcement (excerpt): "With deep sorrow we inform you that Neil Roesler (30) went to be with His Lord Monday, Sept. 20, 2004.

Neil and Sandy were appointed as missionaries to in July 2000, seconded (on loan) to Helimission in Papua (Irian Jaya), Indonesia. Together with their two children Kaila (2) and Micah (8 mos.), Neil and Sandy had recently completed six months of language study in Bandung, Indonesia.

Neil communicated with the base in Wamena on Monday afternoon (Sept. 20), expecting to be home within an hour. The situation for air travel in and around Papua is always dangerous. On Monday, Neil’s flight took him to the South Coast, which means there are mountain passes to navigate to return home. Bad weather and clouds frequently delay flights and communications systems are often interrupted by mountain ranges and peaks.

At dawn on Tuesday morning the search and rescue operation for Neil began. On Tuesday evening, Sandy received word that Neil had been found. The helicopter Neil was piloting had crashed and he was killed on impact. Details are currently being investigated as supporting and involved organizations cooperate to determine the circumstances that led to the accident.

The funeral service for Neil Roesler was held Wednesday, Sept. 22, at 2:00 p.m. at the hanger in Wamena. All MAF flights in Irian Jaya were cancelled for the day. Many gathered in Sentani to be part of three caravans. By 12:15 many Indonesians had already gathered, at 1:30 the hanger was full with people standing outside.

Both Neil and Sandy attended high school together at Faith Academy in Manila, Philippines in the late 1980’s. Neil went on to receive a BS in Aviation Technology at Le Tourneau University in Texas.

A Memorial Fund to assist the Roesler family has been established. Those interested can help by sending contributions to the Neil Roesler Memorial Fund care of TEAM, PO Box 969, Wheaton, IL 60189. Please include Roesler Memorial in the memo line of checks made payable to TEAM."
A sad but heart-warming story - especially in these days when we read almost daily about man’s inhumanity to man.

Helimission is a non-denominational Christian organization that uses helicopters to provide aid in the most remote and isolated areas of the world, bringing physical relief to secluded villages by providing mobile medical clinics and supporting community development projects like water filtration systems, school and dispensary construction and disaster relief.


FL

[VeeAny]

Well put FL

Condolences to Neils Family & Friends


V.

[choppersafari]

Devastated to hear of the sad loss of Neil Roesler.

Helimission do such a fantastic work in the really remote places of this world - working entirely on donor funding and self funded missionary pilots and their families.

These pilots and their families are truly laying their lives down daily to serve those remote tribes, villages and communities both in practical caring and logistical support as well as in bringing the Gospel of new life in Jesus Christ to them.

At least Neil went out doing what he loved the most - flying helicopters and serving his Lord.

We pray for support and encouragment for his wife and young family, that they will always have a clear understanding of God's higher purpose and calling, that they will know that God has called their husband and father home to a better place, and that their heavenly Father will always be with them and will surely show them a new and exciting future in the years ahead.

His ways are higher than ours, but He loves us so dearly, even though sometimes we don't understand his ways ...

We are praying for you Sandy, Kaila and Micah ... Our hearts are with you and we salute you ...

Hope, indeed, has wings, and God will renew your strength ...

God Bless you, and also Andy McCain and his family with you in Indonesia, and all those serving the Lord in aviation around the world ...

[Col]

Amen...

(Choppersafari, I'm sure your words reflect the heart of many...)

[gooneydog]

Yes indeed very well said speaks for all of us with missionary aviation connections

[choppersafari]

Anyone hear or know any more detail about the circumstances around Neils accident?

Any other helo pilots out there flying in similar conditions regularly - bad wx in deep jungle valleys etc?

[Steve76]

Amen to all above.
Possibly the greatest sacrifice, is to die in service to fellow man. Still a tragedy none the less.
May the lord bring peace and blessing to his wife and children.

[Cyclic Hotline]

Some additional information here. (http://www.helicopterforums.com/cgi-local/talkrec.cgi?submit=lt&baseurl=http://www.helicopterforums.com/talkshop&msg_num=133077)

[MBJ]

I'm going to be a bit contentious here..

Of course it is sad, particularly for the poor guy's wife and kids.

However, (While waiting for the report on why this happened - if it is ever made public) I pose the question about experience levels within Helimission. Both Helimission and MAF have been known, in the past, to use very low time pilots who have to do their own maintenance.

I do not believe this is a safe practice in very demanding terrain and I would be interested to know what comment Helimission management have to make about this aspect of their operations?

[choppersafari]

MBJ, an interesting question on missionary pilots experience - not at all contentious ...

I cannot officially speak for MAF or Helimission, but have had a little contact with both organisations over the last while.

Generally the requirements for pilots in the mission field seem almost restrictively high when faced by the young aspiring pilot who only has that course in mind.

When making enquiries for especially the more credible organisations like MAF, JAARS, or Helimission, they say to anticipate 10 to 12 years of preparation from the time you begin training before you will actually serve as a missions pilot.

This is largely because of the remote and often hostile environments they will work in, generally isolated from modern conveniences, with bad wx and climate, mountains, jungles etc to contend with as the norm.

The maintenance engineer qualification requirement is because the base stations are most often too far away to send an aircraft to an AMO facility for the 100hr MPI or other routine maintenance. The pilots are certified AME's with min 3+ yrs on the benches ...

Helimission want a minimum of 500hrs with 100 turbine, and A&P maintenance licenses. MAF have a similar entry level fixed wing hours requirement, however with an Instrument Rating and a fair deal of instrument flight time thrown in. JAARS I think also want jungle flying training included.

Standards are necessarily high too because of the responsibility of the work, and because they emphasise integrity and excellence as part of their calling to serve the Lord and do His work.

Many mission pilots have either military aviation backgrounds or aeronautical science degrees as well (Neil Roesler had an AS degree from Le Tourneau).

Those guys are doing a great work out there - they work under tough conditions, and as self funded missionaries having to believe God for their salaries and daily needs while many other pilots regularly change companies searching for better pay.

It is a long road of preparation and training for no significant pay in order to serve their Lord and fellow man! It is certainly a calling!! Says something about the type of person flying in the mission aviation field...

500hrs/100 turbine entry may not be high time, but would you consider it low time?

Maybe under Papua conditions ... debatable, although there are high time monkeys flying around and low time professionals in the aviation industry - attitude and professional approach counts for quite a bit ... although granted there is no substitue for hard experience ... a good balance between hours and attitude is maybe the key to get through the earlier years of a flying career ...

Any comments ...

[MBJ]

....500hrs/100 turbine entry may not be high time, but would you consider it low time?... although granted there is no substitue for hard experience ... a good balance between hours and attitude is maybe the key to get through the earlier years of a flying career ...

Any comments ...
------------------------------------
You are quite right about quality of time - lots of hours may mean very little BUT I do consider 500 hours/ 100 turbine as very low indeed for this area. Especially if there is no experienced supervision locally.

I also understand the push to have dual qualified pilots, but if you're fixing it, then flying it, then trying to get home before dark/ when the weather's bad..you can see where that leads.

There is no answer that doesn't cost money, but I wonder whether a bit more outlay for commercial mechanics/engineers to take the pressure off the drivers may not be a worthwhile investment?

I'm not sure what the checkride routine is - 6 monthly with an experienced outsider? (Although I know that's just a snapshot of someone's handling abilities and not judgement)

Anyway, I don't know the details of the location and it may just be bad luck but I had to ask.

[choppersafari]

MBJ, and others ...

500hr/100 turbine minimum -> 1500hr more realistic ... without doubt more is better ...

We never did consider Neil to be in question - as you say we haven't heard any details around his accident - nor do we know his experience etc. ... just seems he was highly spoken of by his colleagues ... as you say, maybe it was simply unfortunate circumstances ...

However this does open some interesting thought on experience requirements for this kind of work ...

Helo drivers are not bashing down the doors to get into the mission field - the work is restricted to a small group of men and women who feel specifically called in terms of their christian belief and commitment. That narrows the field of avaiable pilots, and yet the demand is huge.

Given this, groups like Helimission have to still carefully select their pilots. In my experience they clearly make their decision to take on pilots based on specific flying experience and training first, as well as christian training and commitment, and personal character.

They are not overly enamoured by mere enthusiasm or desire to fly, or even the pressing needs in the mission field. A good example is the Tanzania base where BJ and Robin Patterson have recently had to close the base while they go on 6 months furlough (after a 3 year stint) because there were no suitable pilots available to relieve them.

I think Helimisson take a pragmatic approach to safety and excellence, in spite of the needs in the field.

I would like to assume they conduct regular check rides and safety checks on the various bases. It would be good to hear from them on this ...

Papua is quite extreme, and I assume that any company working there would have lower time (-1000hr) pilots under some supervision for a certain acclimatisation period

engineer/pilots ... makes you a better (or more informed) pilot ... and I assume the missions guys do the routine maintenance and leave the heavier stuff for the commercial guys ...

Even so, looking more broadly, how many times have we heard of employers in the industry allowing lower time pilots into potentially hectic work because there is no one else available at the time, and the work must go on ...

It happens still ... I've been there occasionally, feeling at the limits of my experience, and so have many others ... as long as it is not too extreme I suppose we are generally thankful for the new opportunity, apply what we have learned, and pray we get through without messing up ...

Anyone have any thoughts or stories on facing this shaded area of the experience graph while building experience ... ??

SOME MORE LINKS RE: NEIL ROESLER

http://www.faith.edu.ph/home/index.php?id=572

http://www.faith.edu.ph/home/index.php?id=574



http://www.faith.edu.ph/home/typo3temp/f9e337c76e.jpg

Thanks for the links.
I've added a link to the photograph of Neil with his family.
Very sad loss.

Heliport

[Pilot's Widow]

In 1968 my husband was killed in a helicopter accident at Ok Tedi, in the Western Province of Papua New Guinea, on the border of Irian Jaya - he was contracted to Kennecotts, flying a Bell 47. He had previously worked for two years in Bougainville for CRA (Bougainville copper mining).

He left a wee boy of under three years, an unborn daughter, and myself.

I was later given a poem by a friend, and I quote:

'What think you now of your braw goodman?'
Ah, woe is me!
My heart was high when I began,
my heart was high, and my answer ran,
'More than ever he is to me.'
But when I laid him on his bed -
ah, woe is me! -
and spread the free-cloth over his head,
and sat me down beside the dead,
O, but my heart grew sair in me.
It's well for men to be heroes grand -
ah, woe is me!
But a woman's hearth is her country, and
a desolate home is a desolate land,
and he was all the world to me.

'How John Brown Won His Diadem', from
Men of the Covenant, Alexander Smellie

I am a Christian, I have not remarried. The consequences of death made our Lord weep. It's easy to say that in the future there will be some sort of hope but, for now, the devastation for that widow and the awful feeling of loss is something that few can really understand.

From my own experience I know that God is faithful, and He is there. But right now, there must be only emptiness and confusion for Neil's family.

I pray for their comfort in the darkness.

FB

[Nigel Osborn]

Pilot's widow

I knew your late husband quite well in the Navy and was also flying in PNG when that terrible accident happened. It was a great shock to all of us in PNG at that time.
I'm glad to read that you are still well and have coped with your loss.

[Heliport]

Pilot's Widow

Thank you very much for writing about your own experience, and for sharing the poem with us.


Heliport
Moderator

[Steve76]

That has to be the most saddening reply I have ever read.

Is 500hrs enough?

The answer is an emphatic NO. A fair portion of that time is Fixed Wing and to consider it remotely close to safe, to send a 500hr pilot into foreign mountainous terrain is blatently irresponsible.

I see guys with 1200hrs who struggle to fly around the gas patch. 500hrs in 10k mountains in a JR. Scares me.

If the Lords work is so important, would it not be more suitable to find the funding and pay a professional experienced mountain pilot to fly the aircraft.

What has this accident caused? The loss of one machine at a cost of $500K and an immeasurable cost to a wife and family.

Money for more experience is what it all comes down to. Explain that to his son in the future.

Time to realise that the Lord cares nothing for the cost and if the mission is worth the effort, it is probably worth some of Caesars coins.

Reality check.
Apologies to his family if reading this causes grief. Not intended, just the opinion of another father/pilot.

[choppersafari]

Steve76

Can only agree with you – more is better ... as I intimated earlier 1500hr more realistic for Papua and similar terrain/envt flying. But in defence of the recent Papua accident, who says Neil was taken on in Papua at 500hr minimum …?

The minimum entry for HM, MAF etc. is as I understand it generic, not specific to the task, and there are a variety of places and environments missions orgs work in around the world which are far less demanding …

Just to clarify … in the case of the helimission pilot, as well as any other professional pilot, we can’t assume some of the 500hr minimum is fixed wing … many helo pilots have no f/w experience and in any case heli hours should be separated from f/w hours when considering heli specific work, surely …

Most often the mission organisations, like other credible aviation orgs, would apply entry level experience to entry level work as a pilot ... many companies take on 500hr pilots to do certain work requiring that experience level, combined with an evaluation of the type of individual concerned, in-house trng, check rides etc. ... as you know some pilots will always be cowboys, some not ... . In his and HM’s defence, I like to believe Neil had sufficient experience and was ready for the task at hand ...

In all fairness we don't know what Neil’s actual experience level was ... I imagine he was experienced enough and deemed qualified for that kind of flying, to have been flying there.

Sounds like that particular flight was a combination of unanticipated rapid change in wx, unfortunate circumstances, maybe judgment error under pressure, and who knows what else ... he was 15 minutes from home ... what a tragedy … maybe one that could have been avoided ... but even 15 000hr pilots crash in the mountains ... so it might not have been entirely experience related …

Steve76, your input is great, enjoy reading your other postings too … however maybe the implication that some missions organisations are taking short cuts to save costs is a little harsh, especially immediately in the wake of the recent tragedy … they generally take their training and standards very seriously …

Given that, you are absolutely correct - 500hr is low time for that kind of work, but my understanding of the average HM pilot in those areas is that they average 1500+ hrs, and the standards are generally high …

It would be good to hear from past or present missions helicopter pilots to get a more informed picture … there must be some of you out there somewhere on pprune … !

[VP8]

An evening with Bryan Pill. (pilot with Mission Aviation Fellowship)

Location: Andrewsfield Flying Club Essex
Time: Wednesday 20th October 19.30

Andrewsfield is located on the old A120 between Great Dunmow and Braintree at Stebbing.

Bryan is a pilot with Mission Aviation Fellowship, an organisation supporting the work of aid and devlopment agencies in remote, deprived and needy areas of the world.

Presently flying in Chad, Bryan has flown Cessna and floatplanes in Africa and Bangladesh. He helps provide a lifeline for medical care, adequate food, clean water and Christian hope.

Bryan will be speaking about his life, work, adventures and experiences with MAF.

VEEPS :ok:

[choppersafari]

This thread seems to be getting off it's original focus ... For more on this important line of helicopter experience/qualifications ... Steve76 has started a very thought provoking thread on helicopter experience ... CATIRL on Rotorheads ... sort of follows on from this .... worth looking at ... :ok:

HELIPORT, I trust it is OK to redirect this ... please let me know if I'm out of line here ...

Blue Skies! :O

[CaptHook]

I have been a missionary pilot for almost 30 years. I am rated in both fixed and rotor wing and have an A&P. I flew in Viet Nam and was a grad from Embry-Riddle in 1975 . I flew 10 years on the island of Borneo, Indonesia - started the first helicopter program on that island, and another 9 years in Paupa, Indonesia or the Western half of New Guinea.

All of this to say that my background is typical of most pilots in Mission Aviation Fellowship(MAF) today. Ex-military and airline pilots and new pilots coming from colleges with BS degrees in Missionary Aviation. We have 200 families that fly in over 24 countries around the world and into some of the most remote areas and shortest airstips in the world. I cannot speak for Helimission, and they do work in places where we fly, but I wanted to speak about MAF and their part in the aviation community. As part of the training department here at MAF, I always tell our new pilots that we are not bush pilots, but professional pilots flying in the bush.

Just to get to our doorstep for an evaluation ride, they have four year degrees, Bible school training and a long weeding -out process with application, psychological tests, medical tests and a Commerical and Instrument, an Airframe&Powerplant rating. Fixed-wing single engine pilots need mim. 400 hours - multi need 1800 total,500 multi,and two years MAF field experience or 1200 hours of MAF type field experience. helicopter need 500 hours, 2000 hour total and two years experience on the field or MAF type of field experience, and same goes for our Caravan pilots.
We have a Chief Pilot on every field, Aircraft Operations Manual, SOP Manual, Airstrip Directory for each field, our own Safety department that monitors 60 years of operations on computer and all operations up to Part 121 Standards, although we operate as Part 91. We have maint and overhaul centers around the world and full time A&P's to help with the large maint on our aircraft. All pilots must pass our evaluation ride and go through our pilot orientation and standardization training.
Each pilot must take a six month check ride and every four years re-strandardization training in the U.S. All pilots must have one year of language school for the country they will fly in and go through all factory schools for type of aircraft they will be flying and working on. Each pilot gets a six-month field checkout, riding with an experienced field pilot and then will fly only cargo runs during airstrip and route checks. After the six months, our pilots are restricted to certain weather and flight conditions for one year . After 60 years, I feel MAF's Safety record speaks for itself, considering the terrain, airstrips and weather conditions we fly in each day.

I feel one of the most important things we do as missionay pilots are the field check-outs and then the restrictions we place on each pilot as they develop time on the field. The go-no-go is watched over by a Chief Pilot or one of our instructor pilots that watch over each new pilot in country. Untill they learn the weather patterns and the mountain terrian where they fly, you cannot let a new pilot loose too soon. The pilot may even have a lot of time in the aircraft but not a lot of time in the terrian and weather of that area. Our type of flying is in a very specialized environment and each new pilot must understand that they need Wide Margins to fly and stay alive in that environment..
Our hope is that MAF takes the lead and becomes a model for all the other missionary aviation organizations operating in remote areas of the world. This type of flying is not for everyone. It also takes a lot of time and training to get to the foriegn field. I feel the difference we are making in safety for this type of flying is in our high standards for field check-out and controlled margins for new pilots on the field. There is no doubt we run a risk by just flying in this kind of environment, but even more for just that reason we must do the best flight and maint. training that we can do to provide the safest flying to those who use our services around the world.

[Heliport]

Welcome to Rotorheads CaptHook.

Interesting post. :ok:

[choppersafari]

CaptHook - MAF Pilot ... :ok:

Outstanding! So good to get an informed reply from someone who has been there a long time ... thanks for the insight ... enjoyed your post ... look forward to reading more from you and other missions pilots ... (I'm working towards being there one day too - long road, no shortcuts!) ... :ok:

[tinpis]

Anyone here flying for this mob in the early-mid 80's?

[spinwing]

Errrr ....Yeeeeessss ...why?



:O :O

[imabell]

i was there back then, out in tabubil in the star mountains.

ok tedi gold.

[tinpis]

Thanks guys check your PMs:ok:

[sling load]

Hevilift PNG and Regional Aviation have signed a Joint Venture Agreement effective 31st March 2005. They have entered a 50/50 partnership and for PNG operations will be called Hevilift (all fixed and rotary wing assets) and Regional for operations outside of PNG.

The new Hevilift will be run by the present MD of Regional.
Good luck to all the people there at Hevilift,

SL

[212bushman]

SL, yes there is a merger being negotiated, how accurate would you rate your information ?:hmm:

[Hippolite]

Media statement below:

To all our valued present and future clients:

The Shareholders and Directors of Hevilift and Regional Aviation ( Regional Air, Regional Pacific Airlines and Air Loyautie) take this opportunity to announce the completion of successful Joint Venture negotiations resulting in the signing of a Heads of Agreement between the organisations.

In this agreement and as of the 31st of March 2005 Regional Aviation will enter into a
J/V arrangement with Hevilift. As part of this agreement Paul Booij will be appointed Managing Director of the new J/V aviation entity.

In PNG the newly formed J/V Company will be known as “Hevilift”, the remaining entities within the new J/V aviation group will remain as they presently trade. All J/V aircraft will eventually sport the Regional Logo and colour scheme.

We are extremely delighted with this announcement and we both look forward to developing the Regional Aviation and Hevilift fixed and Rotary wing assets. These assets presently stand at Eight 300 series Twin Otters, Seven Bell 206L-3 Helicopters, Four Bell 212 Helicopters, Two Beach King Air Aircraft, Two Mil 8MTV Helicopters and one EMB120 Brasilia aircraft. The Group facilities in PNG include Port Moresby, Mt Hagen and Madang , with further facilities in Cairns Australia, Honiara in the Solomon Islands and Noumea in New Caledonia.

We are in the process of contacting each and every client to discuss in depth the benefits of this Joint Venture and how we can improve the delivery of aviation services and support.

HH



:cool:

[Heliport]

Threads merged.

Heliport

[belly tank]

Found this for anyone interested:

18 February 2005

Helicopter Pilots
PNG
Touring 30/30
Min Req:
Hold CPL(H)
3500 hrs Heli
1000 turbine
500 Bell 206 series
Preference:
Prev PNG exp
PNG CPL Heli
EndorsedBell 206
External Load exp (Long line to 60m)
High Altitude or mountain exp
Email:
Chief Pilot Rotary Wing
[email protected]
or
Hevilift (PNG) Ltd
PO Box 49
Mount Hagen
WHP 281
Papua New Guinea

[Time Out]

I understand that Hevilift aircrew and engineers have been given a month's notice. This is apparently to sort things legally. Strange though, no mention of re-hiring yet. Wouldn't you think most of the same people would be re-hired by the new mob, under normal circumstances?

[Steve76]

Most of the oldtimers from HL have left already. They are working for Columbia, Pacific and Canadian companies.

[800]

Can anyone point me in the right direction for web links or suppliers for PNG aviation charts and/or procedures?
Does PNG have any equivalent to Aus ERSA, AIP or charts etc.
thanks
800

[warrigal]

Smoke signals!!!

[Arm out the window]

They do have charts etc, sorry I don't have much info any more (haven't been up there since about 2000), but from memory there is:
- an overall airspace chart with control zone boundaries and area divisions
- a radio frequencies chart with the HF and VHF frequencies for all the different areas
- larger scale charts for the terminal areas.

They have AIP type info which should be obtainable from the PNG Civil Aviation Authority (? hope that's the right name) in Moresby (I used the RAAFie documents that had the appropriate info reprinted, so haven't used the originals).

Full reporting flight planning is required, and there's a PNG-specific form to use. Generally, HF is used for position reporting and SARWATCH, and VHF for traffic in the local areas. If operating in controlled airspace (only around Moresby and Nadzab I think), it's VHF and being controlled.
Places like Madang, Mt Hagen etc have a tower and a traffic zone, but you don't need a clearance to fly in the airspace, just to take off and land (if I'm remembering right). You must report entering the zone though.
The air traffickers are pretty good in my experience, but the accent can take some getting used to.

There are heaps of NOTAMS amending frequencies, AD serviceability etc, including some weird ones (like 'armed men seen in vicinity of aerodrome, caution...')

In the hills, many of the gaps are named, and you can expect a fair bit of traffic around them.

Airfields are classified differently depending on dimensions, and tyre pressure / weight of aircraft that can use them.

That's a quick starter off the top of my head - hopefully guys like Chimbu Chuckles, etc, them's that's been there and done that, may chime in with some info, depending what you want.

Cheers

[800]

thanks muchly for the info

800

[bladebanger]

Warrigal

That has to be an all time classic response. About the only thing up there that works.

BB.

[maxspeed]

800, PM me if you would like me to e-mail you all the reg's (1.2MB)

[Too Cloudy]

Could also try the new (ish) CAA PNG website. Although a fair bit of it is still under construction, most of the new regs, some airspace procedures and a few other bits are included.

Try http://www.casr.gov.pg/

[bigchopper7669]

i have only done about 500hrs over there, but as long as you make very basic radio calls (think back to PPL) it is very difficult to get in trouble over there. There are many companies operating there but all the frequencies will be well published and it is all CTAF'S . Basically don't sweat it it's all very basic. Hope this is of some help

[ShyTorque]

Oh - I thought this was going to be about PNGs (Passive Night Goggles), which we used to night fly with before NVGs were invented......... :O

[Whirlygig]

Well, that dates you! :O

Cheers

Whirls

[bigchopper7669]

Sorry ,
I didn't read all the thread , i thought you were talking about flying in Papua New Guinea !

[Arm out the window]

800, there are some old and bold PNG types who frequent the D&G questions forum, so if you don't get what you're after, a post on there might do the trick.

[Disguise Delimit]

Vacancies exist for helo pilots in PNG for freelance pilots for 1-3 and 1-6 month stints, flying b206.

Need over 2,000 hrs experience, PNG licence is a bonus, and 5 yrs of sling work and high altitude time. Need to be able to adapt to difficult living on the job site.

PM me and i will give you the contact details - don't bother asking me questions here, I probably can't answer them. Just doing a favour for a rello.:ok:

[Granny]

Gee- What a deal! 1 to 6 month stint, the Russians will jump at that one.

[Disguise Delimit]

"Come on, this is just a cheap copy of Steve 76s April fools day posting, surely!"

No it's not, and don't call me Shirley.

Probably paid in Kina, don't really know. As i said, I am just doing a relative a favour by throwing out the burley, someone else will pull on the line if they get a nibble.

[Disguise Delimit]

Only a few enquiries so far, so I am bringing this one back to the front page for a second run.

Come on, where are the mountain men? (Away, mountain women I suppose...)

[maxeemum]

Hell no, I'd rather iron my D - - K!

:{

Max

[Bushrat]

I am an experienced helicopter engineer and am thinking of doing some contracts in PNG...can some one fill me in on conditions, what the different companys are like and what the going rate is for experienced enginners...I am endorsed on most of the lights and intermediates in the country and have 20 years experience....please post replys or PM me

Cheers

BR

[gulliBell]

1. There is plenty of work available for LAME's in PNG at the moment;
2. Daily rates in the order of $550-600+ AU if you are experienced (which then gets taxed at various rates);
3. Some companies feed you on top of that;
4. Can almost write your own monthly pay cheque if you've got E&I on your licence;
5. Touring for expats is usually on an equal time basis, 21/21 or 28/28;
6. PNG is a developing country so "anticipate" in that regard;
7. Like many jobs, alot is what you make of it.

[Bravohotel]

Bushrat...check your PM

[HeliJayB]

I apologize in advance if this subject has been discussed previously. I did try to search the subject first.

Interested in reading first hand experiences of pilots working/flying in PNG ( Papua New Guinea). Weather, good/bad companies, going pay rate, type of work, etc...

Thanks

[Wings Of Fury]

Hi HeliJayb,

I flew fixed wing Aircraft there, awesome experience. :ok:

Don't know much about flying helicopters there, but I know there is work there for the crazy brave! And the weather, well in some or most parts of the highlands and the coast, the weather every afternoon deteriorates very very quickly. :eek:

Maybe try re-posting in one or both of the Dunnunda & Godzone forums,

All the best with it.

[Heliringer]

G'day all,

I have been thinking about working in PNG and would like to know about rosters, pay and general stuff you do on your tour. I don't know anyone who has flown there or I would ask them.
Thanks for any info/ideas

[gulliBell]

Typically:
30 days ON 26 days OFF (equal time tours) i.e. travel day, then 28 working days, then travel day, then 26 days off;
$300 to $350 AU per day S/E, $400 per day M/E;
Minimum experience requirements usually apply (3000 hours + turbine);
Background in vertical reference work highly regarded.

[heliduck]

Bloody Hell, I hope they pay the day rate while your at home on days off as well!! Are my expectations too high for thinking that the salaries would be a bit higher than that, considering the terrain, conditions & dodging the machetes from the Chimbus & Angans?

[gulliBell]

Just to qualify, day rate means per day worked. If you are casual you'll get paid the number of days worked times the daily rate. If you are full time touring you receive a pay cheque each month that amounts to the daily rate times the number of work days in the year (196) divided by 12. Any extra days worked above this get paid at the daily rate. Should also mention, if you can speak Kiwi that's highly regarded as well (there are many times more Kiwi's working in PNG now than Aussies :oh:). Some of the operators feed you whilst on tour, some don't. They all pay for your most economic air ticket to and from work, and any related expenses.

[heliduck]

That makes sense. The rates are nearly always lower where there's a high ratio of Kiwis - "It's not all about the money, Hey bro!!".

[TukTuk BoomBoom]

Well i worked in PNG and you can say what you want about kiwis but they work a lot harder than most of the aussies i met over there.
There seemed to be a whole class of 45+ aussies who were either piss wrecks or there for the black pussy.
I was not impressed with the general level of workmanship either, i thought thats where you went when you knew your stuff but it also seems to be a slackers retirement home.
Rough gear.
And theres bugger all to do there after hours except drink, thats if youre lucky enough to be in a camp with booze.
I dont think PNG is the place to go anymore like it once was, why dont you try Africa or the middle east? Or just general aussie flying work is now pretty well paid.
There used to be a huge gap in pay between working in PNG and Oz. Dont forget to ask how much tax youll be paying there either, it can be as high as 50%.

[gulliBell]

I can echo those comments. But don't fret about that tax rate, PNG tax rates are on the way down...now way down to about 43% I think :ugh:

[lifer1]

I agree with the previous couple of comments re the wk in PNG.I flew there for 11 yrs so are reasonably qualified to comment.The money diff between the land of the unexpected and OZ is not that different but taking into acct you only wk 6ish months of the year it is better however as previously stated it's not like it used to be.
The actual flying there is still great and with the right attitude you can learn a hell of a lot there about flying and yourself at times.
For the faint hearted it is NOT and over my time there I saw a lot come and go,sometimes sadly in a box as it is not a forgiving environment with the wrong attitude ,no matter how many hrs you have beleive me.
No I don't fly there anymore but done a couple of contract tours last year after several years away ,loved the flying but the place is still a endurance test on paitence and is still slipping .
With regards to the pisswrecks ,I belive these individuals are simply"ünemployable" anywhere else and so are stuck in that rut of "the path of least resistance"so stay on.
And it isn't just pilots,some of the engineers are in the same boat regarding their profesional and personal abilities and can also be labeled "pisswrecks".
As someone said there are a lot of other options around these days as long as you don't mind traveling a little further.
Safe flying to you ALL.

[nutty04]

Hi Guys

Firstly an appology as I am new to the internet and have only just mastered the google machine so you will have to bare with me.

Im just wondering what is happening in PNG at the moment. Are they keeping busy over there or has it slowed down over there due to these horrible economic times. I read in another thread about Hevilift that they are firing guys but are they hiring guys there or anywhere else. Also which companies are good to work for?

I have about 1600hrs, 1000hrs Ag, 1400hrs in a B206, 50hrs long lining and mainly only operated in the hills up to about 6500ft. Would this be enough to get a foot in the door?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Nutty:ok:

[EBCAU]

1600 hrs, especially since most of it is turbine, might have been enough for a foot in the door in the last year or two. You might have missed the bus though.
The global recession is having its effect. There are more experienced pilots starting to look towards PNG again. Something they didn't need to do in the last few years.
Nobody knows what is happening up there in the future. Will investment in oil and mining falter, or will it carry on in anticipation of the recovery? Will the proposed LNG pipeline happen, and give a shot in the arm to industry?

Only time will tell. Good luck.

[R.OCKAPE]

Heavylift +675 5451240

Pacific Helicopters +675 7321833

HeliNuigini +675 3211476

Islands Aviation + 675 325 4055

Southwest (Carson and Pratt) + 675 5491278

[nutty04]

Thanks for the info guys. From what I can gather Pacific have a full compliment of pilots and Hevi-Lift are not hiring due to economic down turn but maybe thats a polite way of saying you don't have enough hours go away. I havent heard back from the other companies.

Thanks again

Nutty

[canukeng]

what is best base to live on in png?
Goroka?
Hagen?
POM?
Moro?
Any reason why?

[spinwing]

Mmmmm ....

Tricky this ....

I would suggest Moro ..... Hagen dangerous ...especially at night (the locals do not wear reflectors :}) as is Port Moresby .... Goroka probably Ok ... but watch yourself ....

Cheers :E

[Granny]

I think the best spot is the depatures lounge at Jackson's airport with a cold SP in hand!

[Steve76]

E: none of the above
Hevilift have a great bar in Hagen. If able - that is the best.

[boogar]

I agree with Granny, that departure lounge at Jackson airport is a pretty special place. Haven't found anywhere better yet!!!!!!!!!

[canukeng]

Thank you. I had heard Moro might be a bigger base with better facilities????

[boogar]

Yep Moro has it all!!!!! a dry camp so get a few skin fulls prior to arrival is always the best bet if you like to drink. Remember to take your jandals if you like to take a shower at the end of the day and get clean without the fungle infections between your toes!!! and something to wipe the seat if you like to sit down and relax for 5 min every day without getting covered in someone elses #*#* and urine, although us heli pilots get quite good at hovering if you know what I mean. (I'm sure the locals can't sit square on that seat or realize that the seat actually has a hinge on it) The water there always quenches your thirst but after a couple of weeks if your not use to it ,some imodium is always a real safe bet especially at 5000 feet and your busy at the top of a long line if you know what I mean! If you like sleeping with a pillow take your own as a lot of the rooms have no air con and the pillows smell like 10 year old sweat, and just about make you vomit! (i sleep without now) other than that it's an oasis in the middle of the jungle. I don't know why tourists aren't flocking there in their thousands. hope it goes well, cheers

[spinwing]

Mmmmm ...

Like a Canuck is gunna know what "Jandals" are .... :confused:

(Jandals=Kiwi speak for rubber flip flop sandals).

;)

[heliduck]

I found it interesting while I was in Canada to find out that most Canadians I worked with (I was in the northern bush, not the southern cities) actually call them "thongs", the same as Aussies do. It has only been recently that the use of the American terminology of "flip-flop" has become widespread.

[spinwing]

Mmmmm ...

Yes ... I did have a moment there when composing my post ... the thought of some of our North American bretheren trying to figure out how to wear our thongs the same way they would wear their thongs ..... I had a quick laugh then got on with it! :confused:


;)