Rosters: how did it get so bad and what can be done.

[Guru]

I hope someone can explain how the roster get into the present state of affairs and what needs to be done to turn it round.

[water check]

.....where does one start...? It has gotten to this point of misery for one very simple reason. Our management has, over a period of 7 years (...7 years....for pete's sake...!), continued to devalue, denigrate and strip away the protections and 'reasonableness' that is necessary in the running of a 'proper' airline. Having done that, they are left with the present situation where people are demoralised, angry and frustrated. The only way the company can now operate the aircraft is to continue to abuse, threaten and cheat the very aircrew that they rely on to even have an 'airline'. The answer is simple. We have to make it more painful for them to continue with this present situation than it would be to fix things. The ONLY way to do that is to ensure that the aircraft are parked. That is the ONLY situation that will force the management to implement the changes necessary to get us back onside. I believe that a strong message needs to be sent on the 31 of March. Anyone who is operating on or 'over' that day needs to take a stand for their careers, profession and future career potential, and do the 'professional' thing and make sure that you are NOT flying with this terrible 'flu' that is going around, and due to get worse on THAT date..... The AOA needs our support, and the company has NO interest in changing the status quo until aircraft are parked. It is time for all of us to stand up to this appalling and untenable situation. We are being used, abused and generally treated with nothing short of contempt. Show them that they WILL not have an airline WITHOUT their aircrew being onside.

[E-whale]

Guru, I wasn't here the whole time, but I bet the story went something like this:

ONCE UPON A TIME........there was a very successful airline called Cathay Pacific. It was managed by honorable people and staffed by dedicated employees. The management had a long-term focus for the airline. The staff was treated fairly and had realistic expectations for the future. When a crisis came up such as a typhoon or a drop in passenger traffic, everyone worked together to come up with a solution that fit the long-term goals of both groups. It was a good balance for both management and the employee.

But alas, things change. In fact, the only thing you can count on in this business is change. Over the years there were changes in the management. Not just the individuals, but also in the character and focus of the management. The focus shifted from long-term to short-term goals only. These short-term goals were driven by a management bonus system that rewarded only the short-term result.

With that came indiscriminate cost cutting. Cost cutting is often necessary, but this management found out something amazing in the process. Pilots are honorable people and will do what is needed to protect their airline. So this management found, much to their surprise that getting some pay-cuts from the pilots was so very easy. The pilots took the first cut with only a little complaint. Then a tragic thing happened.........management got greedy. There were many many more pay-cuts and things like B-scale, ASL, COS-99, etc. They said, "That was so easy, let's do it again". And, they did do it again and again until you arrive at the present day situation.

The real tragedy in this story is that by continuing to be heavy handed and one sided in their policy, management has painted itself into a very dark and evil corner. By definition management is the art (well at some places it is an art) of getting people to cheerfully do what it is that you want them to do. However with this management it is pressure, fear and intimidation that rules. This management has destroyed any will the pilots had to help out the company. One simple example is that this is the only airline that ask it's pilots to take pay cut after pay cut and then still expects them to cheerfully work on G-days or fly over-time hours ............for free.

This dark corner that management have now found themselves in, is one that has an easy out. It is so simple. Stop the rhetoric. Drop the ego. Pay people fairly and let them have a little control over their lives. Give the pilots some incentive pay to work on a G-day or fly a bit of over-time and the crew control problem will disappear overnight. With the proper COS and incentive pay the pilots of this airline would be calling crew control and asking "do you have any trips I can fly".
And, then everyone would live happily ever after!
THE END
Guru, this obviously isn't the whole story.......maybe someday, someone will write the book. Until then, the only thing I can say is that I think it is now a matter of management saving face (and their jobs) more than the actual money.




[This message has been edited by E-whale (edited 16 March 2001).]

[Iago]

E-whale,
May I suggest a name for that book,"From First To Worst"

[Guru]

Thank you both for your posts. Obviously for those involved in the saga passions are running high and I am as sympathetic and understanding as an outsider can hope to be.

Can you perhaps ellaborate on the more technical details regarding the shortage at the moment? eg is it correct to say that the airline should employ enough pilots so that they are not required to work over-time just to maintain normal service? If CX does have enough pilots then why are the rosters in such a mess?

[Thrust]

Just as an aside Guru; The roster problems are rooted in several area's and it IS a complex issue.

One problem we have at present is that the roster follows a "cause and effect" chain of events. There is so little fat in the patterns rostered that if there is a disruption caused by aircraft tech problems, type switch or crew sickness the follow on is felt downstream for days to come. We have the highest utilization rates in the world for our Airbus A340's and are possibly close on the B747-400. This compounds the disruption.

If your individual roster is disrupted by the mentioned causes you can go for weeks before you get back onto your paper / published roster. The only thing guaranteed is your "G day" on the paper roster (with certain exceptions) so your working / real roster is like a constant reserve block with time out for G's. This as you can imagine does nothing for normal social life with family and friends. Thing's that management take for granted.

Perhaps someone else would like to take up gauntlet and explain some of the many other problem area's with rostering.


[This message has been edited by Thrust (edited 16 March 2001).]

[KaptainKangaroo]

So glad Cathay Pacific never gave me the time of day...PHEW !!!

Is this for real, or you guys just a bunch of whiners???

[Thrust]

The people that contribute to this forum Capt Kanga are the tip of the iceberg I can assure you. We may complain a bit but that's cos we aren't getting a fair deal.

Most people are lied to when they interviewed with CX and I'm sure many would not have signed on if they realised then that the lifestyle was like selling your soul to the devil. That last sentence is not an exageration but is true. Who would sign on for an outfit that said at the interview stage "you will get 8 days off a month and the rest of the time is a lucky dip where any destination on the network is possible up to time of departure". That's what is happening. Can you imagine leading a married life with this situation. It's intolerable and can't go on for much longer.

We aren't whiners..... just telling it how it is.


[This message has been edited by Thrust (edited 16 March 2001).]

[KaptainKangaroo]

I guess it's a different point of view for me since i do not work there. Here in the U.S, very few people get to fly an all-glass widebody jet while having just 1000 to 2000 hours of flight time, it seems to me like it's such a great job, but then again, I don't work there.

So how many sectors do you guys usually fly a day on the B777 or the A330?

Hope things will get better.

captkanga

[1-stripper]

KaptainKangaroo, we don't "fly all-glass widebody jet" as S/O no matter how many hours we got before joining CX. We are just radio operators.

[KaptainKangaroo]

1-striper,

That's pretty fun too !!

[still kickin']

Oh, now I get it. You actually are Kaptain Kangaroo. How's Mr. GreenJeans Kap'n.

[cheklapsap]

Back to the point.
What do you call a roster where you do not fly even one of the 10 flights rostered for the month?
What do you call a roster that is 'illegal' in its interpretation of the 'days off in seven' rule even before it's flown?
What do you call a roster that always has the ubiqitous 6 days of standby which inevitably results in total chaos for the rest of the month?
And then, you see next month's abomination and realise it's not a dream but a living f'ing nightmare!
Someone soon is going to call me and ask me to fight these mongrels. To whomsoever it is, believe me, I'll be there!
Call soon, there's lots more like me out here. Something has to be done!

[Screaming Lord]

"They" have to sacrifice someone after this total screw up, who will it be ???????????

[Übersturmfuhrer]

Two things:

1. "They" will never accept responsibility for anything. Deny, deny, deny. Factor in the "face" thing, and you'll get the idea.

2. There is no USAB Freighter deal. Freighter pay in the US is below USAB scales (significantly) which in itself is significantly below the majors salaries. Join USAB and earn $65K sitting RHS of a 74F. What a joke. The ONLY thing CXF is good for is getting an endorsement to go somewhere else. That's what all you "wannabees" should do. Eventually the clowns at the top will get the message. CXF doesn't belong in the grand scheme. It's an abomination.

[Guru]

Are you guys still sticking to the media blackout? I'm asking coz I've just read the article on the SCMP website. I think for someone without any background knowledge of the situation, just by reading that piece and 'careful' choice of quotes it doesn't paint a very good picture of the pilot group at Cathay.
What's the reason behind not giving the public your side of the story, or at least explaining why flights are being disrupted? If it's too intricate an issue to talk to someone like me about then I would understand.

[offblock1]

I am not with cx but interested. Does CX have a union and what status legally does this union have?Do they do all the contractual stuff, check if the rosters are legal or is all this not allowed in HKG with china around the door?If your contract says xyz is there a way of having xyz enforced? Can they set up a strike if the company breaks the contract?Does all this chaos also affect your basings in Europe, like CFX-CX in FRA,LHR,MAN etc..