SAR: Ireland

[Captain Catastrophy]

Any truth in the rumour that one of the Irish Search and Rescue Contracts has or is about to change hands?

[InflowRoll]

Yes, apparently CHC are in the process of selling 'Bond Ireland', presumably to OLOG.

[maxvne]

So does this mean it will be operated by Bristow Helicopters? They used to have the contract a long time ago. I presume this is the Shannon based contract as the Dublin one is a new contract operated by Bond Helicopters.

[stikker]

can anyone shed light on the rumour that CHC are getting a third sar contract in ireland

thanks

[HOGE]

Based where??

[fishboy]

Scotia were looking for pilots & crew, two weeks ago for that operation, I can't remember where.

[Aerospit]

The advert in Flight International is for pilots and crewmen for both their Dublin and Shannon Bases, but it does say that they wish to increase their operations in Ireland. Whether that means Dublin and Shannon or possibly starting a new base (Cork?), it doesn't specify.

[Pac Rotors]

Just curious about CHC as they stated that they only wanted to be a top flight offshore company and yet they are still expanding their onshore operations.

[EFATO]

Don't forget that there is the possibility of BP having 4 offshore and 2 onshore SAR helicopters by 2002? Both Scotia and Bristows are keen to aquire this contract and need to have a SAR division able to produce trained crews as the contract progresses.

[stikker]

i heard the north sea project was cancelled

[Night Sun]

No it's not been cancelled but I've a feeling it's going to be a long long time before a BP SAR helicopter gets airborne.

[camelrider]

I understand that applications to tender for SAR in Waterford have recently been released

[army427]

Has anyone who applied for the vacancies advertised back in January heard anything yet? I meet the requirements and was hopeful, but have heard nothing since my initial application was acknowledged.

[Vfrpilotpb]

They are probobly waiting for Martin McGuiness to ok your army records !
Hope you dont mind
Piston Broke

[stikker]

I am also interested , from what I here they are under going some mamagement personnel changes at the moment and that might be disrupting progress. have you sar experience.

[army427]

vfrpilotpb,

I hadn't thought about that. Martin McGuinness, if you're reading this I'm very sorry about all the noise I made over your place but they made me do it!

Stikker,

Yes, 8 years SAR captain and 6800 hours total, but no S61 experience. I've got a couple of other options at the moment and will need to make a decision soon. Thought I'd have heard something by now.



[This message has been edited by army427 (edited 16 March 2001).]

[This message has been edited by army427 (edited 17 March 2001).]

[stikker]

you must be a old driver with those hours and sar. from what i been told no s61 is not a problem its the sar time that counts 15 west in a force 11 and 30m waves.

Ayudeme,por favor - Habla usted ingles - molestias de estomago

[army427]

¡Por favor Señor! 43 is not old! Well.....OK I guess if you are 25 it is.

I was told that SAR Captains need 250 hours S61 to satisfy contract. That is a problem if you have no S61 time.

¿Molestias de estomago? Ir a ver al médico.

[stikker]

i guess you heard from carlos before, the hours on type can be got in a very short period on the line in sola or aberdeen ,3 months tops. i suggest contact with the new director for chc ireland when he/she's appointed in a week or two .what type were you on

[AllyPally]

Army427 Do you have much night SAR exp as the Irish contracts are 24/7. Scotia has sold all its offshore pax S61s so there is no chance to gain S61 exp with the company on non SAR flying. I believe the company is looking for ex-Seaking or exp S61 SAR drivers for Capt slots but will take less exp for co-pilots.

[army427]

Stikker,

Thanks for the info. My SAR time is mainly AS365, Bell212 and Bell412.

Ally Pally,

900 hours night. The lack of S61 time does appear to be a problem. As I haven't heard anything from Scotia, I can only assume that they are waiting to hear from Seaking/S61 people.

[stikker]

and they like shuttle time also but as with s61/seaking drivers theres none available other then myself of course. 3 months in sola this summer sounds good

[army427]

Just heard that the selection procedure is delayed but still 'ongoing' and mine is still in the tray. Hope to see you in Sola.

[stikker]

The Irish parliment gave the go ahead for a third civil sar contract yesterday based in waterford

[Rameses III]

And Scotia has just given them a 7% pay rise plus an allowances increase in various areas to retain the workforce who kept leaving!

[chopperman]

7% pay rise? I work for Scotia and this is news to me. Please tell me more.

[Rameses III]

Sorry, that's the guys in Ireland who got that I've no idea what they're planning to do elsewhere.

[chopperman]

Thanks Rameses, 7% is a step in the right direction but it still isn't going to stop people leaving.

[stikker]

The pay award given to the pilots working in Ireland was part of a national wage agreement, an Irish government effort at controlling public sector pay. Government contract = public sector pay increases, and the union is free doesn’t that make you wonder.

[Heliport]

from the Irish Times. . New Coast Guard helicopter for south east. .The south east is to get an "all-weather" twenty four hour marine emergency response helicopter, it was announced today.. .Minister of State at the Department of the Marine, Mr Hugh Byrne, today announced the awarding of a five year contract with CHC (Ireland) Ltd to provide the service based in Waterford city.. .It is planned that it will be in place from July 1st next. However, from May 1st CHC will provide an interim service on a twelve hours per day basis until the start of the main contract.

The new helicopter is one of the most highly-specified marine emergency helicopters in the world. It has specialised direction finding equipment and forward looking infa-red, which can detect people in the water through heat transmission. . .This will allow it to carry out rescues in all weather conditions, day and night.. .The helicopter can carry up to 15 survivors, can transport fully-equipped fire fighting crews and has up to five hours endurance in the air. It has a maximum range of 468 nautical miles and a cruising speed of 110 knots.. ."I also think it is fitting at this time to remember the four gallant crewmen who tragically lost their lives in July 1999", Mr Byrne added.. .
Presumably the Irish Times thought their readership wouldn't be interested in the name of their new "one of the most highly-specified marine emergency helicopters in the world" - or perhaps the journo forgot to ask! :) :rolleyes:

[cyclic]

Me thinks it will be one of those cutting edge S61 thingies?

[ 14 February 2002: Message edited by: cyclic ]</p>

[Heliport]

'Can carry up to 15 survivors' gave a bit of a clue didn't it. :)

[maxvne]

Unfortunately there is still a pay problem as the boys in Ireland have not recieved the same pay rise as Aberdeen has, why not? If Jigsaw goes ahead it will be last one out turn off the lights and no SAR coverage for Ireland. Management should get there finger out and forsee this problem as HS and Denmark are striking regards the same problem.

[MarkD]

Apparently to save money... and there we all thought that the sale of mil facilities was ringfenced for equipment buys...

Obviously overspent on flash ad campaign - very nice actually - and nothing at all to do with the legals telling the pols that they would probably lose a court challenge to the tender process...

RTE News report
July 5, 2002

The Minister for Defence, Mr Michael Smith, TD, has announced a reduction in Defence expenditure this year.

In a statement, Mr Smith said the "painful decision" was to ensure that the overall expenditure would be in line with the original estimate for the year as a whole.

Mr Smith said plans to buy medium lift helicopters would be cancelled, but that the purchase of eight fixed wing trainer aircraft would go ahead.

He said it was expected that expenditure on compensation claims and overseas allowances would be about €12m less than expected.

[Gyros'toppled]

:mad:

The Irish minister for defence today pulled the plug on the contractual order of up to five SAR medium lift helis for the Irish Air Corps. In explaining the reason for this outragous decision he cited 'saving money'.

This, three years almost to the day after four aircrew lost their lives on the southern coast of Ireland flying their wholly inadequate Dauphin short range helis.

Promises Promises.............

For those who have any links or interest in Irish aviation this is devastating news for the Irish Air Corps.

Something is rotten in the state of Ireland...................

[akerosid]

Absolutely appalling news; one has to wonder about the future of military helicopters in Ireland as a result of this. Of course, it was down to a bungle; the S92 won the contract on foot of the offset deal for FLS, while apparently no other contractor had been allowed a chance for an offset. Political interference was a factor and the current minister (who apparently only kept his cabinet position by the skin of his teeth) was the one who made the decision. Of course, he'll stay on. The Dept. of Finance likes incompetent defence ministers; defence is always an easy target for cost cuts. Civil servants don't bear the responsibility for these cuts and it makes the figures balance.

But what must it do to (what's left of) Air Corps morale? I can only imagine this will be the last straw for many.

A very bad day for Irish aviation; just another kick in the face for the Air Corps(e).

[nosefirsteverytime]

well, they've lost one potential recruit here!:mad: :mad: :mad:

I'll go to the ruddy army!

But, then again, aviation in general is very much un heard of where I am, there's a few pilots alright, but if you want anything professional you need to go overseas....

[Gyros'toppled]

:mad:

Its a disgraceful decision. RTE should run archive material of Smith interviews after the Tramore crash, and follow them with his pious retort today. Its easy to trounce the Air Corps when you are starting a new five year term in office. That helicopter deal was announced on the back of the deaths of four aircrew on a beach in Waterford. How quickly they choose to forget.

"Carry on Gentlemen" in your outdated, ill equipped short range Dauphin. We know you will because you cant answer back. Stand aside while we sell your asses right out from under you.

Its three years since those four fine guys died in Tramore, almost to the day. I know that the families worked hard, in both printed and aired media to fight for something to show for their sons-brothers-fathers deaths. All of that is now for nothing.

It would not surprise me at all if this whole charade was a set up from the beginning. Tarnish the tender deal with some insider dealing - Endure the suit filings, and finally pull the plug. Its quite frankly, disgusting. It does nothing but sink the morale of the Air Corps even further into the dark ages.

What about Price Waterhouse ???

This Government has danced around the issue of SAR in this country for far too long. Its about simple economics.

EQUIP THE AIR CORPS WITH A SAR FLEET, spend 100m or more doing it, and they will, let me tell you Sir, they will serve for decades. They will repay that initial outlay in spades. In 10 years time, that 100m will seem like pennys for the value this country would receive in a first class SAR service, but no......
Instead, why not just fork out 10-15 million a year to a foriegn company and rent the service instead - ad infinitum, index linked, in fact in 10 years time CHC will probably be charging 100m a year !!
Yep, sounds like common sense economics to me. They are simply not going to do that because 5 years is too short in politics, Joe Public would never forgive them, and Joe has a long memory. They will throw the Air Corps crumbs to subsist, because Joe would not like to see the Corps die either. Let them plod away in the North West in their Dauphin, and sure, wont we give them a nice brand spanking new ministerial jet in the meantime. That should keep them busy !

Apologies - had to vent this frustration somewhere !!!!!

I lost four good friends in Tramore. This decision tells those men and their families that nothing came from their deaths. There was a glimmer, but it has sadly gone.

Thank you minister

"Carry on Gentlemen, carry on into the deep blue yonder"

[Arkroyal]

That's OK then. Ireland (and the rest of the Atlantic seaboard) can continue to rely on the RAF and RN

[canberra]

i worked in the edinburgh rescue co-ord centre, we reguarly had tasks in irish republic waters. what many people dont know is that there is a treaty between the uk and ireland over defence. ive even known the qra aircraft fly in to irish airspace, mind you there wasnt much the likes of charles haughey could have done to stop them!

[BHPS]

Sounds like CHC-Ireland will be staying longer in Ireland working the IMES contracts with the ageing S-61N then, unless they lose the contract to another operator who can provide long range heicopter SAR.

[Bunnion]

Thanks to Arkroyal for the typically British input. Actually Ireland has four dedicated SAR bases... three run by CHC Ireland using S61's and it appears that the Irish Aer Corps are going to lease a fourth (on the civvie register) to replce their Dauphins and crew it themselves. Occassionally the RAF or RN do come over due to their slightly longer range, but only about as often as the Americans do callouts from Mildenhall.

[[email protected]]

Only last week the Chivenor cab refuelled at Cork and went 250nm out to recover 2 burnt crew from the QE2 - it would be nice to see Irish SAR with a decent capability (I mean range not ability). However, even if the S-92 deal had gone through, from the figures quoted by Nick Lappos at the SARForce conference this year, they still wouldn't have had the legs to do that job.
Interestingly, a lot was made of the Irish contract as the first big sale of S-92 - now that it has fallen through, what is to be the sales pitch? Yellow Merlin with a 1000nm radius of action anyone?

[bluerabbit]

Following the minister's decision yesterday I feel, mr. smith has once again delivered on his promise!!!! ( well as far as he is concerned).
The first Air Corps review board for a medium range SAR aircraft was set up in the early eighties. Since then it has being review after review. When the most recent board was set up last year it had to report back to the minister by mid 2001. Unfortunately, it was already evident that he was once again was going to play the political game.
Since the tragic accident in tramore on the 2nd of july 1999, the sequence of events has been as follows:

1. post accident : minister announces new board to find replacement for dauphin SA365 Fi.

2. Board assembled in early 2001 to report back to the government with recommendation by mid 2001.

3. As with all these type of contracts, work was delayed. by sept. 2001 the board recommended that while all aircraft were suitable to fill the operational roles there was one aircaft which was found the most suitable !!!!!!

4. after a short period and rumours that the S-92 project were offering a package along with the sale of their aircraft, the Minister change the terms of reference of the contract procedures to get a best and final offer from all concerned. this was post Sept. 11th and was a very good move especially with the way the aviation market was been hit. unfotunately when the contract was offered to S-92, eurocopter, rightly so, put in a apppeal to the high court and the stale mate continued from there.
5. Obviously with the the slow down in the Irish economy and cut backs the first thing to go was going to be the medium range contract.

So from a political point of view where does this leave the minister. Well he did what he said he would do:

1. Set up a board.
2. Offer Contracts to whatever compny was found the most suitable.
3. It's not his fault that the whole thing was slowed up!!!!!
4. It was not his fault that just as a final decision is to be made by the high court, that his department was told to cut back it's budget !!!!!!! and therefore unfortunately, and with his deepest regret !!!!!!! he had to pull the plug on the biggest military acquistion in the history of the State!!!!!!!!!

It was not his fault!!!!!! , it's Politics!!!!!

It is interesting to note that while this contract was ongoing and in the media lime light , there was also a board set up by the department to look at up grading the dauphin's. It strange that when a organisation is so determined to get a new fleet of aircraft,that at the same time they are also sourcing the possiblilty of upgrading an aircraft that they had already agreed ( in the public arena!!!) should be got rid of.


So I feel disappointed for the whole SAR culture in Ireland today. People, wheather Coastal rescue, mountain rescue, RNLI, and the voluntary groups around the coast have all lost a great oppurtunity to enhance their voluntary operations in the hope of helping those in trouble.

So where does the Irish SAR operation from here ........
Thankfully CHC are there to cover the gaps and I congratulate them. They worked hard to get Waterford SAR up and running and now with their three bases and their leasing of a medium lift aircraft (S-61) to the Irish Air Corps, they are now regardless of what way our good friend !!!! Mr. smith wants to call it, the only SAR organisation in Ireland.

In closing, I also wish the Air Corps all the Best. They are hardworking professional and have and will do a very professional and worth while service for the State. it is a pity that those for whom they work for, haven't the same admiration.:o

[MarkD]

I agree with the folks who say that we are happy to depend on RN/RAF as we depend on UK for so many things - abortion, hazardous waste incineration, football players.

SAR is a NEED. We are apparently buying prop trainers instead - according to the Sunday Independent for air defence :confused: - which we could live without another while I think, or contract it out.

Bluerabbit - Smith has replaced one recently announced programme [trainers] for a previously announced. Why not last in first out? Someone in DoD must like CHC...

[Nick Lappos]

[email protected] said in this thread:

"Only last week the Chivenor cab refuelled at Cork and went 250nm out to recover 2 burnt crew from the QE2 - it would be nice to see Irish SAR with a decent capability (I mean range not ability). However, even if the S-92 deal had gone through, from the figures quoted by Nick Lappos at the SARForce conference this year, they still wouldn't have had the legs to do that job.
Interestingly, a lot was made of the Irish contract as the first big sale of S-92 - now that it has fallen through, what is to be the sales pitch? Yellow Merlin with a 1000nm radius of action anyone?"

Dear crab;

If you must quote me, try to remember what I said, OK?

I have published the actual slide shown at the SAR conference, which shows that the S-92 can reach out to 350 nm raduis, and at 250 nm radius can rescue 20 people! With external fuel, the S-92 has more range than the EH-101.

I will gladly collect on the beer I think you owe me!

Perhaps you were at the OTHER sar conference, the one at Yoevil? ;)

Here is the site:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/llappos/Image11.gif

[rjsquirrel]

The Irish deal smells kind of funny. The French went bughouse when the Sikorsky folks beat them on price (court papers are said to show millions lower S-92 total price), and also beat them on technical capability. They panicked at the thought of losing in Ireland after losing in Austria to the Blackhawk. Rumor has it they are also sweating the Canada helicopter program, where they told the Canadians that they were all wrong with the tender, which couldn't be met by the Super Puma. When all else fails, blamez le customer.

The Irish business deal about jobs was tossed to the press by the Eurocopter guys, who forgot to mention that they had also offered, in writing, to match the US deal, pound for pound!

The real loser is the Air Corps, who were sued by a losing supplier, as if you could be sued by a vegatable stand if you walked away without buying their fruit. It takes balls to do that and get away with it. Too bad their lawyers are better than their helicopters.

[Dogstar]

How many pilots and aircraft are there currently in the Irish Air Corps? What are service conditions pay and life like? Are there many foreigners flying in the emerald isle? Do people think that this blow will bring the Corps to its knees?

[[email protected]]

Nick, I thought I might draw a response with my post! I have just looked at your slide and the line drops short of 250nm on your graph. I also seem to remember that the external fuel tank option was not a standard S92 fit and would require extensive modification to the sponsons - presumably requiring further certification. Therefore to say that the S92 has more range than the Merlin is not true. To say it would have more range if you put bigger tanks on is like saying the Merlin could fly to 30 West if it had a refuelling probe - neither actually exist on production models. If you use an internal fuel option then you severely restrict the number of survivors you can rescue. The poor old Sea King can rescue 18 people at 250+ nm so the new toy isn't much of an improvement in capability.

Has anyone else bought or ordered the S92 yet?

Your round I believe

[zaplead]

Arkroyal,
As a British citizen with immense pride in our military SAR capability I am compelled to distance myself from your 'imperialistic' comments.
In the UK & Eire we have a SAR force with a heritage that has proven itself to be a world-leader.
Throughout the history of SAR this has been because to those involved have used their flexibility, ingenuity & determination to get the job done despite a lack of equipment or political backing.
As Dr Micheal Woods succinctly noted "Geography & politics have no meaning to those in distress".
In their recent audit by Price Waterhouse Cooper the Irish Coastguard statistics "compared favourable with comparable countries" & their performance was described as "excellent".
Assisting those is distress requires a team-effort right from the operator who takes the emergency call.
The focus must be on getting the job done & not on building kudo's.
You don't get any extra points for breaking records on a SAR mission.
Peace-time SAR has been borne out of humanity & part of that is the ideology that we will help anyone, at anytime, even those whose predicament is due to their own negligence.
In times of crisis we occasionally have to seek the help of those with resources that are complementary to our own.
Recognising when a task requires additional assistance to be accomplished safely & efficiently is an integral part of mission planning.
I believe in letting the politicians do the politics, leaving us to do what really matters.............. :)

[Nick Lappos]

[email protected],

The S-92 SAR aircraft has 2x185 gallon internal tanks, as does the Irish aircraft. This gives it over 350 NM radius of action, while still allowing between 16 and 20 internal seats, litter stowage and all mission equipment. The chart shows that, its the OTHER line, the one you didn't see.

Eyeglasses made in Yoevil, Crab?

I define the max range of an aircraft as its range at max fuel capacity, not by the size of its "normal" tanks. So does the rest of the world. The EH-101 has only a bit more useful load than a 92, and the 101 burns about 15 to 20% more fuel to go a mile, so it has less maximum range. One of the costs of lugging around a third engine, and of having a lower payload/gross weight factor.

The idea of what an aircraft can do is different if you decide that it must be in a brochure, or if it can do it. Bizarrely, I think what an aircraft can do is what it can do. We take sheet metal into one end of the plant, and fly it out the other end, so we become used to describing what we can do. The limitations of range are not the fuel tankage, they are the ability to fly efficiently at the weight. Most helicopters have a max range, with full payload devoted to fuel, of about 1000 NM. This is a physical limitation of the physics of the machine.

If you take an S-92 on the ramp, and put the aux fuel onto it until it has no more gross weight to spare, and you do the same with an EH-101, and then they fly out as far as they will go, the S-92 will go farther. It will also fly faster, as the best range speed for the 101 is 123 knots, and the 92 Vbr is 138. External fuel tanks have now been designed for 92, they look much like those on the H-53 family, leaving much internal room for the SAR mission.

OTOH, your comment about the Sea King shows that you do not appreciate what has occurred in design and safety features in the last 40 years. Do you have your kids drive around in a 1959 Chevy? No seat belts, air bags, anti-lock brakes, dual brakes, spill proof fuel tank, crashworthy bumpers, cast iron dashboard for your face, rigid steering wheel to spear you and finish you off? The measure of progress is doing more in many areas, not just one.

The safety improvements brought about by design and regulation improvements in the 4 decades between Sea King and S-92 are eye-watering, and easily swept away by comparisons like yours, usually made by politicians and lawyers, I must admit. This is the first time I have heard it from a pilot!

Crashworthiness of fuel and structure, Cat A from a rig, control system redundancies, critical parts redundancies, flaw and damage tolerant fatigue parts, bird strike resiliance, energy absorbing seats, the list is endless. I did a study of the paragraphs of the FAR requirements, virtually all devoted to safety, to see what changes have been made for each model from its design until today. S-61 (Sea King) - 80% changed, as-332/L2 (Super Puma) - 66% changed, EH-101 40% changed, and S-92 -2% changed.

Just because a helo looks new, or was built yesterday does not mean it has any modern safety features. The "grandfather" clauses of FAR do not require that modern features be retrofitted into the production line.

There are several customers for 92 now, with 21 aircraft so far committed. We certify this year. The EH-101 passed this point back in 1993, when it was new. Look back in 9 years, crab, and ask those questions. With some luck (and some modern safety features) we might both still be here! ;)

[Irlandés]

My heart really goes out to the Air Corps on this one. Although I never got the opportunity to join their ranks, their influence on me when I was younger was instrumental in me getting into the helicopter world. I used to have to cross the helipad (the prohibited shortcut) at Our Lady of Lourdes hospital in Dun Laoghaire on the way to school and many was the day there would be an Alouette III there bringing in accident victims to the back trauma unit. I used to be fascinated (still am!) by the whole thing. Normally I wouldn't bother the pilots who had enough on their plates but one day they had shut down and seemed fairly relaxed so I asked could I get in. I got the full tour! Their enthusiasm and professionalism really inspired me. And here I am 12 years later on the other side of the world flying helicopters.

Can't for the life of me understand the motivation behind Arkroyal's comments. :rolleyes: Or maybe after thirty years of studying human nature, I understand his comments all to well... :( It reminds me of a comment I overheard a US F-16 pilot saying at the Baldonnel airshow when the Silver Swallows were taxiing out to do their display. "Hey guys here come the Irish Air 'Force'... all of it!" Seemed funny at the time, but in the light of the Tramore accident, you've really got to wonder if they're getting the short end of the stick. And now this! :confused:

Irlandés

[[email protected]]

That told me then!


BTW Nick I had seen the other line - it did not specify anything regarding number of seats or role equipment - just a red line with 6 survivors taking up 1200lbs of payload.
The line of fuel on your payload graph is at 4000lbs both with 4900lbs of fuel and with the internal option of 7330lbs, why? How much payload is available at max normal fuel - I am assuming that at max normal plus internal fuel the aircraft is at Maximum Allowable Take off Weight of around 27000lbs.

I am sure the S92 is a fabulous aircraft, it's just a shame we ended up with the Merlin as a support helicopter as I feel yours would have been the best aircraft for that job. No one would like a modern, safe aircraft to fly in more than me but when an old design like the Sea King keeps getting the job done despite appalling serviceability, the bean counters will find other things to spend the money on.

One last question - is CAA certification more or less stringent than FAA and when were the latest FAA regs that the S92 meets/exceeds updated?


Apologies to all for sidetracking the thread somewhat, I can understand the Irish AAC spitting feathers over this about turn.

[Nick Lappos]

crab,

No sidetrack this is the fun stuff!

The payload range curve is maxed at the top by the gross weight of the aircraft, so at the top, the fuel is not at max, it is exactly the fuel needed to do the stated raduis mission, increasing toward the right corner until max fuel is reached, and then the "southeast" slope where max fuel takes you farther as the average mission weight of the machine is less.

That curve is for the S-92 with MGW at 26,150 pounds (note in the right corner the TO weight of 25,961). The H-92 has 28,300 MGW, so it gains 2150 pounds of fuel (and over 200 NM range).

S/H-92 is to be certified to FAR/JAR so it will match all of the requirements (BCAR now accepts JAR), additionally the transmissions, rotors and such are designed to US Army ballistic and other requirements since the components will go on the next model Black Hawk.

S/H-92 is being certified to FAR/JAR 29 amendment 44 (I checked and the certification basis for S/H-92 is amendment 45), which is current now (two administrative paragraphs were changed subsequently to remove old paragraphs, the design standards were not affected). We designed to future FAR to try and capture all the benefits, even though serious design started in 1995.I checked and the certification basis for S/H-92 is amendment 45

[MarkD]

Dogstar:

IAC types and numbers (http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/waf/ireland/irlaf2.htm)

Certainly what jumps out at one is the number of rotor types, which must surely have a cost in spares inventory, type training etc. Surely some consolidation must happen here, especially if a completely new type eventually joins the Air Corps such as S-92.

[not too dissimilar to what seemed like 80 different types at EI in the early 90's] :D

The fault of the tender process was not that offset was required, for a lot of countries drive such bargains, but merely that it was attempted to be shoehorned in at a late stage. Smith would have lost face if he did the right thing - immediate re-tender specifying offset, compensation paid to all previous entrants if no court actions on foot of the voiding of the previous deal.

[MarkD]

Sea King takes 13 days to fly across Canada (http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/GIS.Servlets.HTMLTemplate?current_row=2&tf=tgam/search/tgam/SearchFullStory.html&cf=tgam/search/tgam/SearchFullStory.cfg&configFileLoc=tgam/config&encoded_keywords=%22Sea+King%22&option=&start_row=2&start_row_offset1=&num_rows=1&search_results_start=1)

[Grey Area]

Lets not start a slagging match. As capable as the Irish SAR units are, the Irish military and civil contracted areas of responsibility are defined internationally. It is not for a lack of capability on the Irish part nor a neo-imperialistic power projection on the UK part but international agreement that see UK SAR efforts west of Eire.

http://www.kinloss-raf.co.uk/lodger/arcc/images/uksrr.jpg

[ase engineer]

Sorry to be late on the reply, but I only just discovered this interesting forum.
But in the interests of accuracy
"like saying the Merlin could fly to 30 West if it had a refuelling probe - neither actually exist on production models. " take a look at
http://www.gkn-whl.co.uk/gallery/eh101/images/eh-0034.jpg

and have a guess at what that pointy thing on the front of the Production RAF aircraft is.

[Hydraulic Palm Tree]

Nick

Why does your slide show that the payload is constant over 260 NM despite burning about 2 hours of gas?

Even your companies technical specs contradict what your graph shows.www.sikorsky.com/file/popup/1,,534,00.pdf (http://www.sikorsky.com/file/popup/1,,534,00.pdf) . It quotes a Max Gross Weight of 11,861Kg and you quote a TOW of 10,441 Kg with max internal fuel. By the gift of simple mathematics, the difference between the 2 figures = 1420Kg OR some 380 Kg less than you quote as available payload on your graph! This is indeed a marvellous Tardis like helicopter. Perhaps you should come and work for Wastelands as they could do with a new 'creative' marketing director!

Your quote of 250NM radius plus 30 Min reserve also seems fanciful since the company literature quotes max range with no reserves as 538NM. At range speed this would give you 469.5 NM range (235 NM radius) with 30 mins reserve at range and not endurance speed, but even so, it would flipping tight and is not quite the 250NM you suggest. You would also have to add on the 2.5 min per hoist op for the 20 survivors so we would now be looking at a maximum radius of action with hoisting 20 pax and 30 min reserves of about 180NM - DOH!

The 538NM Range quoted at 137kts = 3.92 hours of flying, therefore given this is to tanks dry, and your max internal fuel is 2,253Kg, this give a burn rate of about 575 Kg/hr - If this is true on an 12,000 kg aircraft, can we get those engines fitted to the CH47 as it is about 2/3 of the fuel used prorata by that beast.

Oh and by the way, the max radius of action on the Merlin will only be limited by the availability of inflight catering and a suitably equipped C130 tanker to give it some gas.

If you are going to get arsey with Crab, get your facts inline with your company's blurb - mine's a brandy by the way?

HPT

[Heliport]

Good to see you back on the forum, HPT.
Thought you'd left us!

[Weight and Balance]

Note to ase engineer:

I took a look at the picture. Don't try putting gas down that pointy thing on the front of the helicopter - the instrumentation engineer will be very upset ;).

Since the helicopter in the picture has a flight test style air data probe on the front, it is probably still involved in the test process, even if it is the first production unit.

[Nick Lappos]

Hydraulic Palm tree (BTW, Nice name!!),

Your questions indicate that when I apply at Westlands for that marketing assignment, you can be my right hand man for preparing marketing literature. If I can explain it to you, it is ready for prime time! Not that the info is self explanitory, but you mixed up max gross weight with mission takeoff weight, and then applied some common sense from other helicopters. This leads you to believe that I have pulled some slight of hand. Not so! I believe the data is there for you to see, let me try to explain.

The S-92 has a max gross weight of 26,150 lbs, the H-92 28,300 lbs. The empty weight of either varies based on mission equipment, of course. Equipped with all the military equipment of the UH-60L Black Hawk, including IR supressor, the H-92 weighs 15,800 lbs. That includes a dual autopilot, blade deice and lots of nav and comm. So, with 2 crew at 250 each, the H-92 has a zero fuel weight of about 16,300 pounds, and a payload of 28,300 minus 16,300 or 12,000 pounds. With a good load of SAR equipment, it would have an empty weight of about 17,000 lbs (1200 pounds of extra stuff above a military utility aircraft). This includes dual hoist, dual coupled auto approach, GPS nav, SAT comm and a bunch of equipment in the lockers in the cabin, enough to start several Boy Scout Camps. The H-92 SAR chart assumes that 17,000 empty weight. It says 23,000 lbs takeoff weight with main fuel (5,000 lbs). The SAR crew is assumed to be 4 people at 250 lbs apiece, so we have the 17,000 empty weight, 1,000 of crew, and 5,000 of fuel. So far, I get the beer, n'est-pas?

If we travel out at Vbr, the aircraft burns about 1300 to 1350 pounds per hour, mission average. 137 knots divided into 1300 pounds per hour is 9.5 pounds of fuel per nautical mile traveled. [That is the best way to figure out range, not hours and stuff, because you do not travel hours, you travel miles, right?]

BTW, if we had three engines or two main rotors, we would burn about 30% more gas, which leads me to realize why you are aghast at this miserly fuel consumption! Welcome to the 21st century, where gas milage counts.

Back to the mission, we burn about 10 pounds per NM, so the rest is easy, for 250 raduis, we need 5000 pounds of mission fuel, for 350 radius, we need 7,000 pounds. It is no coincidence that the main plus aux fuel is 7,300 pounds, which at the actual 9.5 lb/NM yields 350 NM radius with reserve.

Now, to answer your comments in detail:

Normal range is about 250 NM radius only when you carry little payload, you say "flippin tight" and so does the chart, which shows barely 245Nm only when no payload is carried. Pity you were "flippin tight" when you looked at the chart, otherwise you would have seen that it agreed with you. Try it next time in the morning, when things are clearer.

If you had actually read the last post where I discussed the chart, you would have seen that the 250 radius is best done with the aux fuel, where there is plenty of gas for the 250 trip, plus the time to hoist up those "flippin tight" party revelers who needed to to be winched into the H-92. When you travel out the 250 NM, having taken off with full main and aux fuel, you have burned down about 2400 pounds of gas (remember the 9.5 pounds per NM? 250 x 9.5= 2375 pounds down). That means that you enter the hover at 23,586 pounds (giving you 4,700 pounds of available payload to get to the 28,300 MGW). If you take 2.5 minutes per rescuee, 20 of them takes you 50 minutes. At 1550 pounds per hour in the hover, 50 minutes consumes about 1300 pounds of fuel, leaving you with 3656 pounds of fuel left (7331 takeoff, 2375 fuel outbound, 1300 fuel to hover = 3656 left for home and reserve). If you burn 9.5 pounds per mile, the 3656 will take you 384 miles to burnout. Leave off 70 Nm for reserve (half hour at Vbr) and you can return 314 NM and have lots of reserve.

Now, helicopter aerial refueling is great, Sikorsky invented it, and has built about 3,000 helicopters using it. The H-92 will have it in a bit, fear not.

Regarding max range, the figures are easy to arrive at. Recall the H-92 with Black Hawk equipment having 12,000 pounds of payload. If we take the main fuel at 5000, the remaining 7000 could be in Aux tanks at about 1 pound of tank weight per gallon of tank, so we waste 1,000 pounds with aux tanks, leaving 6000 of fuel. 5000 main fuel plus 6000 aux fuel is 11,000 pounds available. At 9.5 pounds per NM, we can go 1157 NM to burn out, or 1075 with reserve.


Now, all kidding aside Hydraulic Palm Tree, when I post something, I'd fly it, and you can take it to the bank. I made a living doing this for about 30 years, there is no achievement in publishing numbers that don't work!

Regarding the brandy, I would suggest Bourbon, Kentucky bonded. Next time I'm in the UK, lets get you, Crab and me together, we can bore each other silly with figures, buy alternating rounds, and get brilliant!:D

[widgeon]

I think Nick should take title "king of all media" from Howard Stern , nice article in this months Helicopters mag with Nick on page 30.
www.helicoptersmagazine.com

oops online version not current

[ase engineer]

It's an old photo, but it is the inflight refuelling probe, although you're right it is being used for something else.
Perhaps http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafbenson/images/0265.jpg or http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafbenson/images/0257.jpg show it better on an in service a/c and the background may be more interesting to our US readers. Where are they? Answers on a postcard please.

[Flight Safety]

Nick, why is there a difference in TOGW between the S-92 and the H-92? Will it be possible for a civilian to buy the 28,300 lb TOGW of the H-92? Will the H-92 be a full FAR/JAR part 29 (to amendment 44) machine, or will it have restrictions? Can a civilian buy an H-92, or will we be restricted to S-92s only?

(edited for a duplicate word)

[Nick Lappos]

Flight Safety,

The H-92 allows higher gross weight with some modifications to the fuselage structure, and use of dual engine military hover performance rather than single engine civil performance standards. The aircraft are otherwise quite similar, as the "civil" S-92 actually has a great deal of military qualified hardware, adapted from the Black Hawk.

The market will tell us if civil users want the higher gross weight, if so we will provide it. With up to 26 passengers or so, the civil aircraft can go 460 NM with Cat A and Jar reserves while still below the 26,150 S-92 weight.

Current plans call for qualifying the 28,300 pound GW to FAR/JAR amendment 45 (I said I would check and it is amendment 45 that the S/H-92 uses as its qualification basis.)

[Flight Safety]

Wow, fast answer, thanks Nick.

[Charles Smith]

without wishing to take advantage of your situation, have you read the thread regarding Australian Army Aviation recruiting?

CS

[Rotorbike]

The following news story appears on Rotorhub:

The Irish Government, surprised by the extent of negative public reaction to the cancellation of its medium-lift/SAR helicopter contract (originally awarded to the Sikorsky S92), is now investigating the feasibility of leasing. Adrian English reports that the preferred solution is that a commercial organisation will buy the machines and lease them to the Government, with the option of purchase in the long-term.

Considering that this is already happening with a CHC S61 on a leaseback deal to the Air Corps it isn't that surprising!!

[Bunnion]

Word is that the pilots flying SAR over in CHC Ireland are earning up to 40% less than their counterparts in Scotia, Norway and HS.
Could this be true.....? I know its cheap to live there but surely not that much...? Are they unionised or just mad...?

[Davey Emcee]

If you think it's cheap to live in Ireland it must be you thats mad

[EI_Sparks]

Yup, it's currently more expensive to live here than it is to live in St.Tropez :(

A recent survey has again shown that the cost of
living in Ireland is on the increase. The cost of
40 staple items in a Dublin suburb was EURO 296.31
but the same items cost only EURO 232.82 in
St. Tropez, the millionaire's playground in the
South of France. Even Guinness is more expensive
in Ireland, costing EURO 2.09 for a 500ml can in
Dublin but only EURO 1.32 in France.

[SASless]

If the price of Guinness is that high, the rest of the world best watch out....the Irish...having free time due to not being able to buy their native stout will soon take over the world. Is that not the only reason they haven't so far?

[whatsarunway]

i think it is that you must be mad to live in ireland !!

heard the rumour also but i think the lads have recently joined the union , let the games begin !

[Yarba]

Am told Ireland is very expensive to live and Dublin costs more than London or Stavanger. I also heard that they pay their pilots less there than on the North Sea, but that they're told that it's because the Irish Coastguard cannot afford to pay the money that the oil companies pay.
Trouble is unionisation has got pilots in the North Sea a big pay rise, but still CHC are going to fire/make redundant 12-15 pilots in UK after Bond getting the contract for BP - though that may just be an excuse.
I know a few guys who were offered work in Ireland with CHC, but CHC never got back to them. They think it may be tied in with one senior Brit in CHC management in South Africa who seems to upset a lot of people. Some of the guys who were looking for work overseas with CHC were very upset by his attitude and decided to stay where they were. He is supposed to return to UK this year, so perhaps Scotia will have more trouble there later in the year.
How is morale in CHC in general now, with the redundancies on the way and the loss of work to Bond? Are many pilots really thinking of working for Bond again?

[Decks]

No we are not mad over here but we are getting very upset. There have been many Brits here over the years, both front and rear crew and all would agree that its more expensive to live over here considering tax, housing, insurance etc.

It is totally unacceptable that all the other pilots in the company throughout Europe ( and their main competitors... Norsk and BHL) get paid a similar salary while we get paid significantly less while doing a more specialized job. We were all disappointed about BP but to suggest that it was only due to labour costs alone is nonsense. We all know that the oil companies wanted more competition and without doubt Bond will have to pay the market rate if they want people. The contracts here are as good as anywhere else and if the company arent making money then its certainly not the pilots fault as they had ****** all competition during the tendering. While no one wants action, most especially in SAR, the company will be drawing it on themselves if they dont pony up soon.

[Time Out]

An Irish coastguard helicopter has located a 35-year-old British woman who failed to return from a fishing trip off the Isle of Man yesterday.

A search was launched last night after the woman attempted to contact her husband by mobile phone, but the signal failed.


She was eventually located at around 1am using the infrared camera on board the Irish rescue helicopter, which was dispatched to help the British search operation.


A British helicopter and four lifeboats were also involved in the operation.


Source (http://www.online.ie/news/viewer.adp?article=3027747)

[McSkull]

Irish Air Corp lose out to CHC in North West



I Hear CHC are getting the deal here
3. Air Core North West service axed
----------------------------------------------------------------
Minister for Defence Michael Smith explains the reasons behind the decision to transfer search and rescue duties in the North West to a private company 28k - http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/1218/newsatone/news1pm3a.smil
McSkull
:ok:

[Hedski]

Inevitable from day one. Similar thoughts for UK with MoD seeing smaller running costs with HMCG Bristow partnership.
Question is how soon will Sligo be amended?

[circlip]

More to this one than meets the eye; tales of bullying, crew being placed under house arrest after questioning amount of torque being pulled during winching ops, un-serviceable equipment, in subordination and malingering by crew; that’s the story heard at a reputable drinking establishment at EIDW. Eventually the government pulls plug!
Perhaps someone closer to the coalface might supply a few details?

[Decks]

Quite a sad day for the Aer Corps it must be said. In all these situations people need to take a step back and decide what it is that needs to be changed in order to make things work and obviously this did not happen (or at least not effectively). There is no doubt more to the story than meets the eye.

[[email protected]]

Hedski, if they want a really cheap option they could get rid of SAR helicopters completely, there is nothing in the Chicago Convention that says you must provide them. The Dept for Transport only has to provide Search and Rescue facilities in its area of responsibility - these are unspecified facilities. The only reason the SAR helicopters exist is because the MoD provide immediate rescue cover for ejected or crashed Military aircrew - we only spend 0.5% of our working life doing these jobs because fortunately military crashes have reduced in frequency over the years. The rest of our working life might as well be spent being productive so the MoD allows the MCA, NHS, MRTS and police to request our assistance on appropriate rescues through ARRC Kinloss.

[tvpilot]

Resecue 116 (EI MES) landed just weast of wicklow town Ireland
shortly before 1.30 Today Saterday.

lifted casulaty to tallagh Hospital.

Any one have more info???

[Fatigue]

Any info on CHC Ireland?? Good, bad, pay, anyone there enjoy it, loathe it? Any information greatly appreciated! Many thanks.

[autosync]

When you take into account high tax, expensive housing and the general high price of everything due to massive inflation, add to it the fact that pay is considerably less then most other operators.
Then possibly having to live in Sligo or Cork, make sure you know beforehand what your getting into.
Rumour has it quite a few unhappy staff over there.
But at the end of the day it is work

[Bomber ARIS]

Don't worry. The chief pilot usually talks the job down to such an extent that it puts most people off.

What autosync says is on the money. If one then throws in the nature of the job; only two very near rigs to fly to and the amazingly low number of hours flown...........

But if you're happy to be an N2 co-piloto for the rest of your career and you enjoy the rain then go for it

[Twisted Rigging]

Is 'weast' a new pilot term?

It could come in useful at times.

[autosync]

Its just South of the north along the Weast side, they came all the way down to pick up the fallen climber to bring him down to the top of the hospital.

:}

[waffle]

One of the strengths of civvie SAR operations is that it tends to bring together a wide variety of experience and backgrounds.
The one thing that all of the flight crews (pilots and winchcrew) have in common is that they had to make sacrifices to get to where they are at. For some it was years of military service and all the assocaited B.S., while for others it was getting their parents to risk the family home to pay for their training. Either way a price had to be paid.
Most of the crews at CHC Ireland (and their families) appreciate the jobs they have.
When someone manipulates circumstance and in so doing threatens the security and long term prospects of a group of people, it is understandable that they wont like it. When an individual does this to enhance his pension and secure his golden handshake now they are gonna be pixxed off. When someone does this while aware of the employees views, well now I personally am at a loss. Completely gobsmacked.
Lets hope sense prevails and this dies a death before Sligo becomes another row.

[Decks]

The emotion on the pilot side of this is extremely intense. On the basis of what I have just read on the Ialpa CHC secure site, the union board should be very clear what their members want them to do.

[Fatigue]

Gentlemen, Ummm, would one of you like to enlighten the rest of us as to what you are writing about? Would love to know!
Regards,
Fatigue.

[waffle]

Fatigue, dont want this to turn into a character assasination. There have been enough of them already surrounding Sligo. Suffice to say someone not only wants to have their cake and eat it ( dont we all)....But not if it undermines those with whom we wish to work.
That seems to be the widespread view.

[thechopper]

why post something on a semipublic forum if you don't spill the beans. You are taking up precious space. If it's internal, keep it there, don't make us curious.

[Vfrpilotpb]

Waffle,

whatever your beef is we cannot work out, but let me just point something out to you, call me picky if you want, but,

You state "When somone has made sacrifice's, for some it was years of Military service, or getting Mater and Pater to fund your training",

Well forgive the power this early in the am, but quiet frankly "You need to get a life " sad old you, what a poor sad person you are, if you have skill then get out into the atmoshpere and find a use for it, don't whinge on about something that seems to have upset your Cornflakes that means absolutly naff all to the rest of us.

Military service was a choice for many in the last 40 years not a forced occupation, and if your parents had enough collateral to risk on some flight of fancy to train you then good for them, now get on and use it. :mad:

[Mars]

This is one of those threads that is usually seen in Jetblast and started by Tony Draper to ensure that he retains the record of the most prolific poster.

I agree with all of the previous posters - all that has been achieved is to irritate a (potentially) sympathetic group; either delete the thread or make it a worthwhile read.

[waffle]

Sorry if the thread is not entertaining you. It was not meant to. It was meant as a specific "friendly" message to someone who is contemplating a move which is very shortsighted and not in THEIR best interest. Those who are in the know ie all the pilots and winchcrew at CHC Ireland and the IAC know exactly what it means.

[Decks]

Waffle,
The union board know the position of the members of Ialpa and have expressed their opposition to the co. Time to park this one and leave it to the official mechanisms.
Decks.

[Fatigue]

Hey Waffle, check your pm's........

[thechopper]

Friendly or unfriendly messages are still best posted "eye 2 eye".
Call a "spade" a "spade" and an"a..hole" an "a..hole"; it helps in the longrun. Don't be shy.:{ :{

[NLTTGITWOAGS]

Hey Waffle,
Well, just when you wet everyones Rumour juices, you go cold and shy away from the story you so wonderfully set up!
So, there's trouble in the SAR world in Ireland again, tell us something new!!It would be amazing if there wasnt anything going on to gossip about.
Judging from your post, lets speculate.
Seems to invlove the pilots on this occassion,mmmm,prehaps something to do with unions being involved, possibly involvement of the Irish Aer Corps( RIP), lets guess!
Is it to do with an Aer corp pilot who wouldnt move from Sligo being offered a job?
Has the holy grail of " no direct entry Captains" been pushed under the table ?
Of course us ppruners not party to the "inner circle" will never know, but one day it will all leak , like it normally does, but hey then it will not be a rumour then , will it.

Never Let The Truth Get In The Way Of A Good Story

[Hueymeister]

Well, come on then...spill the beans. Last I heard..the AerCorps had decided to let go of the SAR Task, but the gov had no money in the pot to fund a private initiative...what's the gen?

[Nuada]

Good morning to all,

Any site residents working for Scotia on the irish SAR contracts?
I noted the Flight International adverts and am wondering if there is anyone on this forum who has the insiders perspective?
(ie. how many slots are CHC looking to fill?, what sort of shifting?, compensations schemes?, accomodations on tour?,
Captains or F.O.'s?, etc.)

It seems rather a rsah move by CHC as I thought that they used their North Sea ops to provide a stream of staffing for the SAR side of the house.

Is it more difficult for them to fill employment slots In Ireland or has the well gone a bit dry at the moment?

best to all,
a Wandering Celt

[Cdn driver]

Expect maybe this thread is a good a place as any to ask the question,

What chances or hirdles would a Canadian have to overcome to gain employment with one of the formentioned.

or, can it be done at all.

thks

Cdn D

[McSkull]

Saw this in the irish independent newspaper today.

http://www.loadzajobs.ie/includes/downloadMedia.asp?jobid=55850

http://www.loadzajobs.ie/includes/downloadMedia.asp?jobid=55853


more located here including "winch operator".

http://www.loadzajobs.ie/search_results.asp?selfSubmit=1&categories=&locations=&employment_type=&companyId=&recruiter_type=&Keyword=helicopter&roleId=&sort_by=&page=1&posted_in=&s1=&st1=

[Heli-Ice]

McSkull

Thank you for the heads up! :ok:

Heli-Ice

[tu154]

Has anyone who applied for this got a response yet? Or is a month and three weeks too optimistic?

[Flingingwings]

Yup had a reply.........
Wasn't the answer I wanted but hey ho :{

Quite pleased to get a response seeing that my IR isn't till later in the year.

Lets hope they're still looking :E

[tu154]

Thanks. No response for me, but I would have been at the end of the list, though I thought I would had at least had a thanks but no thanks. Oh well, onward etc.

[Wizzard]

"Today, 1st March, 2006, Vancouver, B.C., Canada: CHC Helicopter Corporation (“CHC”) (TSX: FLY.SV.A and FLY.MV.B; NYSE: FLI) announced today it has been named by The Irish Department of Transport (“The Irish Coast Guard”) as the ‘preferred bidder’ to provide commercial search and rescue helicopter services from four bases in Ireland commencing July 1, 2007.
CHC and the Irish Coast Guard will now negotiate details of the operation with a view to finalizing a contract for the provision of search and rescue services from Dublin, Sligo, Shannon and Waterford on a 24/7 basis. The awarding of this contract is not assured and remains subject to the finalization of terms and conditions with The Coast Guard.
CHC, through its Dublin-based subsidiary CHC Ireland, is the current provider of search and rescue and emergency helicopter services to The Irish Coast Guard. Commencing in 2007, CHC will also provide commercial search and rescue helicopter services to the United Kingdom Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) from bases in the UK. "
Is there no stopping these boys?:ok:

[Decks]

Great News. Congrats to all involved.

[doris day]

;) Certainly interested in joining in a couple of years.
When do you think Ireland will employ Winchmen/ Winch op paramedics. Don't want to lose skills as believe good box of tools to treat some patients. Understand there is no such term as paramedic in ROI, but think things are changing.
Also slightly worried about flying in hills without NVGs, likely to get those soon ?

[Sailor Vee]

May well be worth your while firing off a C.V. to CHC in Aberdeen, (normally first point of contact). NVGs are not, currently, looming on the horizon. Situation regarding Paramedic status under revision.

[DeltaFree]

Applied for a job last year, after prompting for a reply every couple of weeks and never getting any, I got another job after waiting 2 months. Nearly ten months have passed and still heard nothing. I guess they are too busy but certainly too late.

[leopold bloom]

If you have been disappointed applying for a job in Eire have a look at www.gfs.gov.hk, they are looking for crewmen.

[md902man]

Oh, and if you applied to CHC last year and didn't have an instrument rating, and passed the initial interview stage, it's highly likely that you'll still be sitting around with your thumb up your butt waiting for them to contact you and tell you any information at all. Very poor way to treat people. Give you an interview then have no contact at all regarding simulator testing. I was under the impression that CHC were a huge operation who could get the job done. It's going to be an interesting time when their new contracts come online and they have nice shiny aircraft but no-one to fly them. Also led to believe they are 15 pilots short at Aberdeen, 3 in England and now possibe shortages in Ireland. Not to mention the new SAR contracts and a couple of other things going on soon.

Happy job hunting.

[Return to sender]

CHC are always recruiting for Ireland they probably have a standing order with Flight Magazine!;)

[Airflowreversal_1]

Anybody knows what working for CHC Ireland is like? Would love to hear some experiences, both offshore at Cork and SAR. Also what the pay is like and how the social life is around the several bases in Ireland?

[Pink Panther]

As a CHC employee i find CHC's HR department in Aberdeen really leaves a lot to be desired, the phrase "don't hold your breath" comes to mind. I know people who have put CV's in for both rear crew and pilot positions, they still haven't had any reply from the company one way or another. Not very professional if you ask me.

[bondu]

Don't you find that ALL HR departments are the same? Certainly in the heli world anyway! :{
Bring back the old Personnel manager; at least it gives the impression that we are 'persons' not 'resources'! :*

bondu

[doris day]

:) Many thanks. They have my CV in Dub already and was posing for join next year however have decided to stay for 22. It is a bit like the Shawshank Redemption, becoming an institutionalised man. However am looking forward to moving to Ireland in next few years. Lack of NVGs still worrying but adapt and overcome. Looks like a good company to work for, thecrewroom banter is as i'm used to .

[Just Waiting]

I am one of the folks waiting for chc to be in touch after passing the interview last year and am curious...
How many others are waiting
How many have been taken on already
How many jobs are still needing pilots to fill them???
any one who works for chc know??

[Fatigue]

Hey there Justwaiting,

PM me if you need more info!

[Just Waiting]

have sent you a pm, thanks.

[callie dog]

Just Waiting,

Check your PM's

[Just Waiting]

callie dog,got your pm,
anybody else out there in the same situation?? pm me.

[Ships Cat]

A little Leprechaun has whispered about a SAR incident that may have occurred recently. It appears that the wire was cut or parted, the winch weight was recovered by a boat, and some damage was sustained to the aircraft. There may or may not have been some injury to other crew members.

Knowing the way this forum works, I am surprised that no-one has published it before, or am I just the victim of a colossal wind-up?

No, I didn't hear it on April 1st.

[ketchup]

Funny, overheard the same story last week, winch wire got caught in ship gear on deck, split and hit the -trailing edge- of the main rotor blade. Girl was SIC, nosed down and preparded for ditching but found they had control and headed for land. I 'think' it was in the galway bay area..... haven't seen an AAIU report yet.....

[EAGLESDARE]

CHC IRELAND MAY HAVE JUST RENEWED THE IRISH SAR CONTRACTS BUT MAJOR INDUSTRIAL STAFFING PROBLEMS LAY AHEAD FOR THEM. CURRENT ENGINEERING LEVELS ARE DOWN TO WELL BELOW ACCEPTABLE LIMITS TO PROVIDE A 24HR SAR SERVICE AND THE PILOTS UNION HAVE JUST CEASED PAY TALKS ARE ARE ENTERING IN TO A ARBITRATION PROCESS. I BELIEVE MOST OF THE EMPLOYEES ARE LOOKING TO RELOCATE TO THE UK WHICH WILL HAVE DRAMATIC AFFECTS TO THE RENEWED IRISH CONTRACTS.

[CRAZYBROADSWORD]

Interesting could this be the start of the long talked about lack of pilots and engineers or just the latest hot gossip.......................

[Hummingfrog]

This may just be a realignment of resources as CHC Scotia is advertising for SAR Captains and Copilots for The HMCG contract in the UK. They are also looking for Captains in Ireland so it looks as though the UK is a more popular place to work!!

CBS

There is no general shortage of pilots. What there is a shortage of experienced pilots to fill Captain slots.

HF

[GoodGrief]

Companies have neglected their responsibilities to create experienced pilots.
If you want twin rated IFR pilots then create them instead of putting people into large debts financing the ratings on their own.Only few can anyway.

Take on a 1000 hour pilot, pay for his IFR and the type rating, he has shown dedication in helicopter aviation and is most likely not running away after having been treated and trusted like a real person.

But what do I know?
Rather increase management pay then INVEST in loyal staff...

[Night Watchman]

Hummingfrog is absolutely correct the shortage is of experienced SAR drivers.

What is happening is that the transition from BHL to CHC and the new aircraft requires a slip crew. So effectively CHC require the same number of SAR crew for the slip crew as they would for a new base. They need 4 SAR Captains, 4 SAR P2's and 4 SAR crewmen. Obviously there isn't this sort of experience hanging around on street corners so my guess is that they'll start digging up old SAR S61 drivers to cover (defib on standby)!

To all the wanabees out there I would say that SAR is the future get in there if you can....

[Hummingfrog]

GoodGrief

The companies haven't neglected their responsibilities what has happened is that experienced offshore co-pilots have left the industry to do other things, be it fixed wing, EMS or Police. This has left a shortage of suitable candidates to promote to captain which is exacerbated by the increase in flying due to the high oil price, which requires more crews.

There seems to be no shortage of lower time pilots with IRs to fill co-pilot positions what there is a shortage of, as I said before, is pilots with suitable offshore/SAR experience. Even a pilot with a 1000hr experience of instructing is not much use until he has gained enough multi-crew IFR time in horrible weather.

HF

[Justintime80]

[quote= They need 4 SAR Captains, 4 SAR P2's and 4 SAR crewmen.[/quote]

Emmm How's that going to work then? "4 SAR Crewmen" no time off for these poor beggers then :hmm: 3 months without a break and they best not go sick.

[3D CAM]

Emmm How's that going to work then? "4 SAR Crewmen" no time off for these poor beggers then :hmm: 3 months without a break and they best not go sick.

How about a year; at least!! Four bases, all changing aircraft type back to back.... Oh deep joy.

[Helipolarbear]

To all the wanabees out there I would say that SAR is the future get in there if you can....

NW.....SAR is the future? Future for what exactly?
:cool:

[sarmanontheline]

Can anyone tell me what standard of medical qualification is BIEC and EIEC???
Any ideas this is what Rear Crew for UK are to be at??? :ok:

[fred scuttle182]

Expect to see a big recruiting campaign for UK SAR crews and engineers in the very near future, will they be on the same deal as their irish counterparts I wonder.Whats the chances of IRCG base(s) having to go to 12 hours due to crews good will been taken for granted.:ugh: