Is Jetstar hurting the Qantas Brand?

[crystalballwannabe]

Just wondering if any research has been conducted to confirm the introduction of Jetstar has “tainted” the QF brand sufficient to reduce pax numbers on international flights?

Have heard QF will remain on Capitial City routes only with Jetstar covering the rest of the network in the not to distant future. I am tipping Jetstar will then be sold off so QF can focus all attention on the international side of things, albeit to late.

Watching with interest.

[Howard Hughes]

I am tipping Jetstar will then be sold off so QF can focus all attention on the international side of things

So that would be LHR, LAX, NRT and HKG?

If that's gonna be it, might as well close the doors now and sell off the whole bl**dy lot!!

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

[vneandbeyond]

British Airways obviously saw the mess QF was creating for itself and got the hell out!

[alidad]

Is Jetstar hurting the QF brand?

I think not; within five years Jetstar will be THE Qantas brand and there will be little or no mainline involvement within Australia.

[swh]

alidad,

See Qf retaining the Cityflyer brand in Australia for the high frequency routes.

See the mainline fleet consisting of only 738, A330, 744, A380.

See Qantaslink, Australian, and Jetstar taking over thinner routes with a lower cost base.

:rolleyes:

[ditzyboy]

The vast majority of JQ customers will continue to fly JQ as they travel on price alone. Most generally don't care how bad they felt is was last time - as long as they save a buck.

In terms of branding I think the two brands are distingiushed enough for there not to be a conflict. If someone was to have a bad experience on JQ (it could happen :rolleyes: ) I seriously doubt it will prevent them from flying on to LAX or PER on QF. In terms of product they are worlds apart. Whilst everyone knows JQ is owned by QF I think no one could mistake one for the other.

I would argue that JQ actually makes QF look better domestically! Notice how the travelling public don't whinge about QF catering anymore? On short flights you actually get LESS than before (though quality is better). On longer flights you get more but the quality is pathetic (no hot breakfast except East Coast- PER flights). You could use this logic in other areas too. Like poor delay handling and people not liking the boarding procedure... All these JQ stuff ups and inconveniences make QF look like more of an attractive option. One might be willing to spend the extra dollars next time? Even if one kept flying JQ you may still remember your last experience on QF was better.

[Keg]

A little short sighted swh. Very strong rumours of a 777 in the mix somewhere. Of course, you could be right and they may to AO instead of QF! :* ;)

[swh]

Keg,

I dont know the answer to that, know the 777 is not as attractive to Oz as it is to say EK, CX, and SQ due to more water being in the southern hemisphere.

With the reduction in the size of the network, where you you see them using them ?

Look at the total number of seats now across the qantas fleet, look at the network reduction, expansion of AO & JQ, addition of the 330 & 380, will they need the capacity ?

:confused:

[wirgin blew]

Being only a young bloke I dont remember things to well.
By creating Jetstar haven't QF turned back the clock to when TAA was around?
As I say I cant really remember how that was all setup but surely one of you old-timers could remind us all.

[hotnhigh]

From Australian Aviation..
'Passengers flying Qantas's traditional domestic services fell 8% as the airline replaced many of those flights with Jetstar flights,'
:{
And no 777's this week.
Perhaps they are finalising the terms for the new pilot contracts prior to announcing the new order?
But don't worry boys and girls it's all under control, your career aspirations are looking good:ouch:
Don't forget times are bloody tough. (As will be shown this Thursday!)

[QFinsider]

Maybe the not so "engaged staff" at QF are flying on DJ!!:E

Yeah and I'm sure AIPA's president heart skips a beat when he thinks of our massive gains in recent years!:yuk:

[Thumbs up]

LORD, Help me

Its just dawned on me

I must be one of those'OLD TIMERS'

:{ :ugh: :{

[Animalclub]

Wirgin Blew
TAA was set up around 1946 responsible to the Airline Commission for just domestic routes. Supposed to compete with Ansett but fares and schedules appeared to be the same.

Had to use aircraft that Ansett chose rather than what TAA wanted... otherwise Australia would have had domestic jet services a lot earlier.

Cabin service was reasonable... however one senior schedules man in TAA said that TAA's cabin service compared well with international carriers... yet he had never flown outside of Australia except to PNG on TAA. Dumb or what?

TAA used to operate international routes for QF where QF did not have suitable or any aircraft... e.g. Lae - Honiara, Lae - Hollandia and Perth - Cocos... and other international charter services e.g. Sydney - Jessleton via Lae for troop movements.

TAA was completely separate from QF... didn't even use each others catering services for some years.

You can guess at the wastage of manpower and equipment.

[MkVIII]

I do NOT think that J* has tarnished the QF name, simply because most punters have no idea they are related! I assure you that if you asked 8 out of 10 J* travellers if J* was a subsidiary of QF, they would have blank stares.

J* just hurts themselves - they don't need any help doing that! From VERY misleading sales advertisements (prime example was the one in today's paper - Rockhampton from $19....plus $43 in taxes of course - do they think they are fooling anyone except the illiterate?). And then the 3 tier boarding structure..... clever thinking J*.

Poor scheduling, poor in-flight service (shades of Qantas all over there!), and disgruntled pilots biding their time until something better comes along.

[Mr Seatback 2]

Poor inflight service in what regard?? Please elaborate...

[ditzyboy]

MkVIII -
Not only are all International fares ex-Aus advertised in this but it is common practice overseas. They do it in the States and Europe. Taxes and surcharges are on top. In the States you get NO HINT of the level of extra taxes until the final booking page. In Europe the system is the same as what is in place here. The level of extra charge is shown alongside the base fare. You would have to be pretty dense to look at a JQ add and think that $19 what you will pay. The presence of extra charges couldn't be clearer.

Having said that I do believe their is an issue with JQ saying the ROK airport passenger charge is X amount when it is actually less than that (OOL airport said same thing in the news). Dunno who they are trying to fool there.

What is your problem with advertising a fare as $19+43? Do you want JQ to raise the base fare just so the surcharges do not look as much?

About the 3-tier boarding system. It is orderly most of the time and it's the customers themselves who are in TOTAL control of how pleasant is the experience. You will experience unpleasant boardings on many airlines throughout the world (though not as much in OZ I must say!). It is 1000 times better than previous systems. You may remember that airlines everywhere board aircraft in 'zones'. QF tends to do it only when aircraft are full. AA board using 8 different groups! (On aircraft as small as F100s/M80s) How are these practices different to above?

The only way things will change at JQ re the product is if customers vote with their feet... Evidently they are not. Flights are busy - the vast majority vote with their pocket.

[MkVIII]

Absolutely agree with you Ditzy, for most respects.

In regards to the advertising, I just see it as an advertising faux-pas to show prices the way they do. I did marketing and advertising at university (GOD ALONE KNOWS WHY!), and this was repeatedly demonstrated as a VERY poor way to garner attention - on initial reading, the customer will be interested, seeing a low price. When the customer continues to read, he/she will see the "extras" and then the fare will not be considered a fair fare (how nice, alliteration :p ) as they are lumped with an extra charge (in this case, more than double the supposed ticket price). The BEST way to advertise a price is to quote it as a complete fare, with no extras.

Looking at the WHOLE J* picture, their advertising leaves a LOT to be desired. Their televison commercials (remarkably absent of late) leave a VERY anti-J* taste in your mouth, and it is almost as if the ads are truly to dispell myths. That's like admitting there is a problem.

I am well versed on the tiered boarding structure thanks. J*'s is an odd system mainly thanks to the non-assigned seating. This causes dissent in the ranks amongst "the other colours".

I was asked to elaborate on the inflight service by a previous poster. I thought I did by mentioning shades of QANTAS in my initial posting. J* leaves a lot to be desired in terms of onboard customer relations, and service. The cabin crew is doing nothing to sell the airline any further.

[Sunfish]

To be fair to J* just once, J* management will have been cautioned, on pain of death, NOT to even think of improving customer amenities on J*, lest they draw traffic away from the QF domestic service.

In my opinion everything about J* has been carefully designed to cut into VB's operations but avoid at all costs cutting into QF domestic.

Thats why the advertising and marketing is the way it is. They want the suit and tie business brigade to stay with QF domestic, so they build an airline that only competes for the low end passengers of the VB operation.

My suspicion is that QF is engaged in predatory pricing (selling below cost of production), but it would be virtually impossible to prove since I don't think the ACCC has staff who understand the subtleties of airline cost structures.

[Mr Seatback 2]

Whilst I see where you're going with the 'shades of QANTAS' ideal re: J* Cabin Crew service, how about a trip report citing what they especially did that was wrong, etc?

As has been mentioned previously, the on-board product has been stripped back so that there is bugger all that can be offered free of charge.

Blankets? No.
Pillows? No.
Headsets? $3 each please.
Magazines? No.
Movie? No.
Food & Drink? On the menu. $1.50 and up.

You know, it wasn't till Jetstar started (not being a regular VB flyer) that I realised just how much passengers link service with product. By 'offering' items free of charge as part of the inflight service, passengers feel they are being taken care of and their needs catered for.

When you have to tell people "I'm sorry, we don't carry those on board", etc., it's only then that you realise the INTENT is there, but the PRODUCT isn't.

[Kanga767]

I know it's off topic but TAA did not have to buy same aircraft that Ansett bought. In fact, if the Government had its way in the '60s we would have been flying around in Tridents instead of the 727.

Luckily both TAA and Ansett saw the light and paid the extra tax (which was exempt on the fine British airliner) and both bought 727. The rest is history.....


K

[Capt Claret]

Kanga767

When I underwent a TAA induction, circa 1978, as best I can remember I was told that if TaaTaas had their way, Caravelles would have been used from the late 50's early 60's. Serveral years ahead of the 72.

[MkVIII]

Yep, and Ansett said NO, they wanted the Electra instead of the Caravelle...

Opportunity lost, but oh what an aeroplane the Electra was!

[gaunty]

Kanga767 Claret et al, you touch on a most fascinating part of our aviation history which goes to very the root of why we are where we are today and why we still have a superannuated fleet of GA piston twins and singles in RPT/charter and the coporate turbine fleet is so small.

Post colonial cringe, the motherland and British is Best = the only way we can sell our whizbang123 is to give it away with free finance too.

Thank God Qantas and Ansett dug their heels in.

[Kanga767]

I seem to remember reading something about Caravelles and TAA too. That slipped my mind. Crickey!! Caravelles and tridents. Lucky they never looked at the Mercure nor BAC 111s!


With regard to attractive deals subsidised by governments, some would argue that the company that grew from those that made these fine machines are still doing it today, 40 years later.


oops!, sorry moderators, off topic. Well, I guess the Caravelle was the original regional jet!!

K

[Mr Nightmare]

I dont know about Jetstar hurting the Qantas brand but they have made a meal of Virgin's share price thats for sure!