Fly Navy!

[Pielander]

The Royal Navy is currently desparate for pilots.

Click here (http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/rn/index.php3?page=3014) fo more details.

No experience is required. You don't need to re-mortgage your parents' house and you don't need to worry about paying for training and having no job at the end of it.

All you need (provided that you meet the minimum educatonal and fitness criteria) is the ability to pass the Flying Aptitude Tests at RAF Cranwell and the Admiralty Interview Board at HMS Sultan.

I would urge anybody who is serious about a career in aviation to consider this option very carefully. The drawbacks are obvious, and as will become apparent, your primary role will be as an Officer, rather than as a pilot. You will have to consider the issue of your motivation and your future lifestyle very carefully, and be sure that you are ready to offer what is being asked of you. However, if you have the right motivation, then no other organisation (particularly the RAF, which has wound down its recruitment of pilots to the bare minimum) will offer you prospects anywhere near as promising.

Any serious questions from serious individuals will happily be answered in the Military Aircrew forum; however, there are lots of previous threads that will provide most of the quality gen that you will need; and in any case, I would recommend that your first port of call is your local Armed Forces Careers Office.

I start my training in a week's time, so please feel free to ask me questions until then. In the meantime, I wish you all the best of luck.

Pie :ok:

[Pub User]

Of course, to be seriously intersted in the FAA you have to be seriously keen on taking it up the ar** from your shipmates when times are slow. Rum, bum and baccy, arrr .....

[Pielander]

Awww! What's the matter, pub user? Were you too slack to get accepted into the FAA?:E

[highflyer27]

Pielander - has someone in the Navy asked you to advertise this??

Out of interest why is the Navy so desperate for pilots when they, like the RAF have been subject to such budget cuts?

Cheers

HF27

[Pielander]

No. It was all my own idea!

I used to frequent the Wannabees forums myself, long ago when BA were still offering full sponsorship. I overlooked the military myself back then, and I believe that many people do the same now. I just think it's a real shame that people will go to such lengths, getting a fATPL at their own expense just on the off-chance that somebody might offer them a chance to sit at the front of a big bus and watch it fly itself. Why do that, when there is a real demand for people to fly for the Navy? (Training paid for; salary paid while training; no financial risk; ok, it'll be hard work and you risk getting your nutz shot off, but nothing's perfect).

I had a quick look recently, and didn't see any real discussions about military flying. That's possibly because a lot of people go straight for the Military Aircrew forum, but that doesn't add up to many.

I don't really have an agenda, although it is in my best interests that the service doesn't die on its @rse due to lack of suitable applicants. The more people we have applying, the higher the standard will be in the future.

As to why the Navy is desparate for pilots and the RAF has too many, just ask yourself how many people who want to fly have ever considered joining the Navy. Not many! Not even enough! Plus the RAF is downsizing after having recruited more trainee pilots than it can cope with in the recent past. Even though the Royal Navy as a whole is downsizing too, the Fleet Air Arm is not.

[Sagey]

If they are so desperate for pilots have they relaxed the age criteria? What is the max age you can apply for aircrew now?

Sagey

[vlad-the-inhaler]

Youre on the wrong forum, mate.
You want the "Patronising teenagers" Forum. Heres a link

www.iwatchtopguntoomuch.com

or try

www.statingtheobvious.co.uk

But if you think you the odds are good for you to be a pilot in the military, definitely have a go at:

www.lotto.co.uk

[Mr Pink]

Pielander

I once wanted to become a naval aviator, didn't quite get the impression that they were that short of pilots tho!

I went solo aged 17, gained RAF sponsorship and flew for years with a my UAS, flying the Bulldog and Grob tutor. I also flew a number of sorties in Hawks which was the highlight of my training.
My dream was to be a Harrier pilot which luckly for me(Or I thought) was backed up by my average sortie grade of 5/6 in EFT, therefore fast jet streaming. Then came the selection at Cranwell (Which I had passed before for pilot) in 2002. All seemed to go well however, there was a backlog for entry into IOT of upto 1.5 years which would have put me over the max age for pilot. As a result my debrief was clear - 'Your good enough, but with the limited number of places for pilots in this selection and the current backlog, would you consider officer engineer'!!!

Obviously not an option, so I went along to my RN office and promptly applied for Pilot. My careers officer a LT Commander seemed confident that I would be sucessfull. Until the day came that I received a letter from the interview board saying that I hadn't even gained a place on the Dartmouth selection.:{
This was due to my navigator score at the Cranwell selection a few months earlier!
Gutted.

Still bitter, as I am confident I'm capable of flying Harriers for Queen and country and they didn't give me a chance, not even to be a bagman!

Anyway good luck, hope you get fixed wing!

Mr Pink

[lscajp]

The Royal Navy is currently desparate for pilots.


This is just not true.

The reason why Mr Pink failed pilot entry into the FAA is simple. His observer scores (although he may have passed them according to the RAF) did not pass the FAA levels. These levels have been increased by them purely because they can - given the large amount of people applying to the FAA versus the limited number of spaces. This is according to the Commander at RAFC Cranwell who looks after all of the pilot intake into DEFTS. Not some simple mess chat.

Pieman i did like your comment about pubuser there are lots of bitter resentful idiots that use this forum that like to slag off others as they're not good enough to be promoted from baggage handler to pilot.

[Crashlanding]

Max age for pilot is 26, just rang so bugger again, im 28

[Pub User]

Iscajp

There are also a lot of people who, having spent many years in the military, still enjoy a bit of inter-service banter.

Perhaps you'll understand one day.

[Pielander]

Mr Pink,

Sorry to hear about that. It sounds like you were skanked. I'm afraid one idiosynchracy of RN selection is that you have to pass the Observer tests as well as the pilot tests in order to get in as a pilot. I've no doubt that you are a veritable stick ninja, and with scores of 5/6 at UAS I'm sure you will be successful in an aviation career somewhere.

Best of luck!

Iscajp:
The reason why Mr Pink failed pilot entry into the FAA is simple. His observer scores (although he may have passed them according to the RAF) did not pass the FAA levels. These levels have been increased by them purely because they can - given the large amount of people applying to the FAA versus the limited number of spaces.

I'm not saying that the minimum pass mark is low by any means. It's still hard to pass, because if you can't pass the FAT's (both P and O), then the way they see it is that the chances are you won't make it through all of the training. (nothing personal - it's just cost saving - i.e. anybody could be a pilot or looker, except that the training budget is tight and the pace of the courses is fast and not everybody can keep up. Maybe this is more the case in the RN? I dunno). Perhaps the need to pass for O in order to get in as P is unnecessary, but I don't write the rules!

The point is that with the standards as they are, there are not enough people passing the tests to fill the quota for aircrew entry (particularly observer). With the best will in the world, the commander at RAFC is not a career advisor, and the debriefing that he gives to those who have not made the grade is not necessarily gospel - it's just the standard guff just to make you feel better.

Pieman i did like your comment about pubuser there are lots of bitter resentful idiots that use this forum that like to slag off others as they're not good enough to be promoted from baggage handler to pilot.

Well, as he said, I think Pub User was just bantering; however, you are quite correct about some of the users of this forum. Case in point:

Vlad The Inhaler

Youre on the wrong forum, mate.
You want the "Patronising teenagers" Forum..
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!...... ha ha ha ha ha! Do you even know what the word 'patronising' means?

And here's the best bit:

...if you think you the odds are good for you to be a pilot in the military, definitely have a go at:
www.lotto.co.uk
Well Vlad, the odds look pretty good from where I'm sitting! :ok:

Just face it mate, you're obviously bitter because you're an unemployable loser. Get over it and find a different career. I hear Kwik Save are actively recruiting 'Checkout Pilots'.:p Why don't you start by checking this out:

http://www.kwiksave.co.uk/jobs.asp

Sagey, I thought you must have got into the FAA years ago! (I spotted some of our posts a while back). The age limit on entry to BRNC is currently 26 for new inquiries made before the beginning of April. Thereafter, it drops down to 24, in line with the RAF. Do it now! Do it now! (I know it doesn't make sense, but please, guys, don't make me argue my case. I'm just telling it how it is, and it you don't want to believe it, then don't read it).

[Mr Pink]

Cheers Pielander,

Not to sure what to do yet, I have quite a promising future as an engineer ahead, however, that bug is aways there! I am keeping a close eye on sponsorship.

I visited RNAS Yeovilton whilst in the UAS, to undertake cockpit escape dunker training which was quite a laugh:hmm:
Whilst there we visited a sea harrier squadron think it was 809! not to sure. They showed us in cockpit footage from a sortie that morning of air to air combat, my god! I think it hit home to many how difficult it actually is. Hence the high standard for selection which I completely understand.

Think the only aspect of wanting to fly harriers anyway was the sound of that pegasus engine, the best noise on earth. Not really a good reason to risk my life tho!!

P.S. For those unaware, the term bagman is RN banter for Helicopter pilot,(Quote: Lt Cdr Nick Richardson RNR)

[peterpann]

I think from my own experience people who want to fly have got two/three real options now...........

1. Apply for the Forces - A Good well respected career.... no not career away of life because thats what it is your signing away you life for x amount of time.

2. Sponsorship - For the lucky few again you sign on the line and your bonded for a certain amount of time but I don't really think the risks are as great as option one................ although easy and ryan do fly from Liverpool:D (thats a joke for anyone who hasn't got a sense of humor!)

3. Fund yourself (or get your parents to if your lucky) - Which yes you carry a big financial burden and yes no job security at the end but the end of the day your life is still your own and IS ANYTHING FOR CERTAIN!!!!.


SO its up to you........... make the decision yourself its your life (well not if you choose option one - but thats my view)

oh and if anyone chooses option one be sure you are doing it for the right reasons because it your good enough to pass cranwell selection possible apprehensions you have will come out at the next selection! Be warned. And another point even tho. they say you have 2 chances, if you stuff up big time at stage one they won't have you back to try again.


What ever option you guys and girls take....... Good luck


Peter and Tink

p.s Thanks for the job you guys are doing in the forces I envy you at times and always respect you

[highflyer27]

Are you sure you don't work for this website peterpann?

http://www.doyouwantlifeadvicefroma12yrold.co.uk

[lscajp]

Pub User, I am in the military and also understand "inter service banter" so shove that comment up your :mad: .

vlad-the-inhaler your a tosser, i agree with pielanders comments about kwick save, but i feel check out bitch is the best option for him/her.

peterpann, well done i never knew those where the options people had to choose from :yuk:

highflyer27 - you sum this place up

[highflyer27]

hahahahahahaha

Iscajp I think you deserve a bit of a slap...

:ouch:

[lscajp]

What for? For speaking the truth about people on this site?
Hahahaha

[jamestkirk]

PIELANDER

Why are you posting about a job in the RN on this forum. There is one called 'military aircrew'

The vast majority of people on 'interviews, jobs, sponsorship' have completed a JAR ATPL/IR for the prospect of working for an AIRLINE etc.

I am sure there may be one or two who are interested but as statistics show that the majority of F/ATPL'ers (starting study) are 28+ years of age, your advice is limited. And as stated before try 'military aircrew'.

For you to resort to calling vlad-the-inhaler an 'un-employable loser' just shows your total lack of maturity and i am sure your shallow comments are not a reflection of the type of people who fly for the royal navy. Oh, and the kwik save gag was not even funny.

Just wondering if you knew what his background is - maybe it's military.

[Pielander]

Who sh@t in your handbag?

This is a wannabees forum entitled "interviews, jobs and sponsorship" Did it not occur to you that many of the people on this forum may be open-mindedly weighing up their options regarding a career in aviation, or do you think it was set up just for your benefit?

I am sure there may be one or two who are interested...
My sentiments exactly. And your point is?:confused:

...the majority of F/ATPL'ers (starting study) are 28+ years of age...
I find that very hard to believe from what I've seen on this thread. Try half of that.

My aim was to spark a bit of interest and provoke a bit of thought about other (more promising) career options. If I have managed to do that, even only for a few people, then I will have consider the exercise a success.

What I did not bank on was the torrent of abuse from bored, small-minded, frustrated, immature people such as yourself and vlad-the-inhaler (who you would see, if you had been @rsed to check his profile, appears to be in the same boat as you). As for you defending him, did you actually read his original 'contribution'? I'd say he got as good as he gave, and no more.

Oh, and thanks for your advice about going back to Military Aircrew, which is where I normally go, and which is somewhere, unlike here, where one does not have to sift through a 10:1 ratio of 'offensive/uninformed bullsh!t':'useful posts'. You can rest assured that, thanks to people like you and your mate Vlad, I will not be bothering to post here again. (May you one day have the misfortune to share a cockpit with one another).

Incidentally, if you already have a fATPL, then this thread is probably not for you, so why have you sat here and read through the whole f'ing thing?

[scroggs]

Despite the uninformed banter on this thread, military aviation is alive and well and recruiting now - in all three services. For those who are interested, and who qualify by age (as Pielander says, the Navy's age limit is being reduced to match the RAF's), a flying career in the British armed forces is extremely rewarding and will challenge you in ways that no other career can. However, as someone said earlier, a military career is a way of life - a vocation, if you like - and is not to be taken on without a lot of thought.

Obviously, the risk of death is very real. The fact that you might die is hard enough to deal with, but are you prepared to die for a government you disagree with, in a campaign you don't understand, in a place you don't want to be, all in the furtherence of an intangible creed encapsulated as 'democracy and the British way of life'? That's quite a hard question to answer, if you take it seriously. Of course, if your immediate answer is 'no', then don't bother applying - but if it is, or might be, 'yes', then you would be well advised to investigate further.

I spent 22 years flying in the RAF and have never regretted any of it. I have had flying, and life, experiences which would have been impossible to get in civilian life. I have no need to do that stuff any more, but I highly recommend it to those who want a little extra meaning in their lives.

Scroggs

[Mosspigs]

Sorry for biting.

As a Mil chap training for Civ street, firstly I have to concur with Scroggs about Mil life. There does come a time when one wants different things though. However, you'll keep the friend and experiences forever.

Anyway to the point of my thread – don’t normally do this but…..

Mr Pink.

Sorry to hear about your experiences. I would sympathise but your thread is so littered with factual inaccuracies that it makes it impossible to believe. :\

If I am wrong, and I don’t think I am, I will apologise, withdraw my post and send you a beer in the post. If I’m right though, please pull the thread as it puts the Mil in an unfair bad light.

Loyal to my last day!!!!!!!:ok:

PM me if you want me to highlight further.

Mosspigs

[jamestkirk]

I don't have a handbag. If i want to sh@t in one I will ask to borow one of yours as you see to have thrown one of them out of your pram.

I was waiting to be proved wrong about me calling your comments 'immature/shallow'. But you start the thread to me with another insult. I rest my case.

I read the posts to see what the general oipinion is out there and i recognised one or two of the names on the thread. Sorry if you thought i was looking through your school bag.

I am sure that those of us who use pprune would like to know that in your mind we have a 10:1 ratio of offensive/uninformed bullsh@t. What is your aviation experience and how long have you been flying. As many people on pprune are experienced pilots with many years in the industry.

And is there any need to swear to make a point. Immature again.

I would like to fly fly with vlad, he seems a funny guy.

One of your postings was on the agony aunt section, advising a teenager on his lovelife. Maybe that is more your area of expertise.

Please do not feel the need to reply to this, I am not visting your thread again.

So you will get no more attention. I can think of no greater torment for you.

[Mr Pink]

Mosspigs

Obviously ur an ex military chap who knows it all. I'll ask the question we all want to ask, 'Why is my thread full of factual inaccuracies that it makes it impossible to believe'????

I have all my UAS flight reports, and Cranwell debrief to show you if you like, maybe we could meet somewhere to discuss!!!!

Tell me this, why are you training for civ street, don't make the grade, too scrared to fight, or really want to get a life!
You give the military (mil) a bad name, maybe they should spend some money recruiting loyal officers who really want to do the job!

Highlight me further.

P.s. Get your beer ready, I drink stella! Address to follow.

[Mosspigs]

Dear Mr Pink,

Thank you for your reply, which I have to say is perhaps the most offensive I have seen on PPrune.

Allow me to answer your questions which you may wish to cross check against my thread.

My thread states that I am presently mil, not ex, I don’t know it all, but am working in the training environment. My thread also states that I have chosen to leave the mil due to perhaps the latter reason you gave albeit rather agriculturally. It does however come after 12 years service, early promotion, several op tours and numerous good friends being killed. I am not scared to fight and think such a libellous comment may want to be removed. Furthermore, I would say that recruiting loyal Officers is not the problem, as we are all loyal when we join. As one grows up however, one wants stability for ones family. Hardly a crime and considering you have a child and made mention (in another thread) to not seeing her if at a front line squadron, you may agree!

Onto your questions:

On the face of your thread there doesn’t seem too much wrong with it and if the error comes from terminology, then I see the errors of your English. However, as a UAS student, being let loose with the controls of a Hawk is perhaps a little bit of an exaggeration. You may have had the pleasure of some QFI non graded glorified pleasure flights but that is about as far as it goes.

Secondly potential RAF direct entry pilots attend EFT post Initial Officer Training at Cranwell, which comes after successful Officer Aircrew Selection. It seems strange to me that the RAF would spend 67 hours of EFT on someone who wasn’t even checked out as having the gumption to be an Officer. Thirdly, if you had completed UAS, you would not qualify for EFT as a direct entrant as the RAF opted out of EFT many moons ago. Presently, and I am guessing from your age and the dates mentioned in your thread that you would still fall into the present system; you would go straight to Linton to commence Basic Fast Jet Training after IOT. Fourthly, OASC scores are valid for 5 years. Therefore you should not have had to take them again.

So unless you are a non grad who went through the UNIVERSITY air squadron and you said sponsorship, not scholarship and then did EFT as a civilian and then failed the test that you had passed previously, then I can’t figure out how you can be son of Tom Cruise.

Lastly, ask yourself this question. If two of the three services turned you down (one didn’t even want to know you), for lacking the required metal to be an Officer, what right do you think you have to question the moral courage, integrity and loyalty of someone who was selected and successfully completed what you could not?

Kind Regards
Mosspigs

p.s. should you wish to rubbish me further, may I ask that you PM me.

[scroggs]

I really don't understand why a perfectly reasonable thread has had to descend into bad tempered name-calling and insult. I have no time for those whose preconceptions and intolerance make them feel they have the right to disrespect others whose experiences are different to their own.

Mr Pink, you are right out of order. Develop a better attitude, or leave the Wannabes fora.

Pielander control your sarcasm. Indiscriminate use of a sneering style encourages those who love nothing more than a flame war.

jamestkirk this forum is for all Wannabes, not just those who belong to the group you particularly espouse.

vlad and Iscajp this forum is not Mil Aircrew or Jet Blast; the banter threshold is much lower here. Don't encourage those who can't tell the difference between banter and insult; it always end in tears.

Mosspigs thanks for your forbearance.

And now I think this thread has seen enough of the light of day...

Scroggs