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bengi25
10th Mar 2001, 05:28
Gentlemen:

This is in no way trying to undermine the HKAOA. I think they are doing well and without them, we would be in a lot of trouble. Most members, and I feel that they need some direction on what we as a member will accept when they are negotiating.
For example: B-scale will be gone only at the Captain. This is preposterous. What about the F/O that has to wait 10 years for Command? What about the new guys joining that have to sit as S/O, then JF/O, then F/O, and then SF/O? It could be 10-15 years before they get a Command and the new joiners now are joining at 35 years of age. They could get their Command at age 50 and then get A-scale. I think not.

That is just an example of what the HKAOA is going for. We need the abolishment of B-scale now.
I put together some resolutions, which I think will suit everybody from S/O’s to Captains and Local to Expraite. THESE RESOLUTIONS WILL HAVE TO BE THE MINIMUM THAT WE EXCEPT FROM THIS COMPANY! Without a doubt, they can afford it.

The rules of the HKAOA are as follows:

* Rule 8.6 The General Committee may, and shall, upon a written requisition signed by not less than one tenth of the number of Members entitled to vote for the time being, convene an Extraordinary General Meeting of the Association.

* Rule 8.7 In any instance that the General Committee shall certify to be of immediate urgency, an Extraordinary General Meeting may be convened at less than seven days' notice, but in no event at less than twenty-four hours' notice.

What I want is everybody to do is:

* 1) Copy and paste this to everybody you know at CX (all your friends and/or every e-mail address you have for somebody at CX).
* 2) Print a copy of the resolutions and carry them around with you. Take them on layovers, on the Flight Deck and when you are meeting some of the company boys for a beer.
* 3) E-mail or Fax (Very important) these resolutions to the HKAOA stating that you want to motion Rule 8.6 and 8.7 of the rule book.

State that this is only one resolution, not parts. All for one and one for all! Someone at the EGM will propose it and someone will seconded it I’m sure.

These are the resolutions:

* All Pilots will receive same medical care for pilots and dependents worldwide

- All relief commanders will receive extra pay for relief duties( one half the different between First Officer and Captain)

- A Scale will receive pay as of pre-99 and with industry standard pay raise post-99

- B-Scale will be abolished after year four of F/O status whether it is JF/O or F/O.

- All pilots based in Hong Kong will receive a travel fund unless the company issues administrative charge tickets or tickets below 1% of ticket cost on own airline on space available basis

- All pilots will BT or DT with Business class travel with upgrade to first on space available on own airline. (Based on seniority to first class if more than one crew member )

- If traveling on FOC is more than 6 hours flight time, FOC’s will be booked in Business class regardless of position or seniority. At Captain rank, it will be First Class on Priority 11 boarding

- Housing allowance will be paid as F/O year one regardless of new joining position

- Staff travel will be issued to both employee and spouse’s parent but not to companion parents.

- Provident fund will be at least 50% of last year’s salary as calculated b the accountants of the HKAOA.

- Rostering practices will be negotiated between the Company and the AOA will be at least industry standard. (Including overtime) backdated to January 1, 2001

- Within two years of the agreement, a bid line system of some kind will be implemented (two years will give the company sufficient time to recruit pilots)


- Table X will be extended to include 10-11 day patterns and this will be included in the rostering practices agreement.

- The pilots will waive -5-4-3 rule on a month by month bases. This will become effective when a bid line system comes on line and sufficient evidence exists to protect Aircrew against acute and chronic fatigue (ex. Table X is extended, etc).

- If a pilot can return to home base sooner may waive -EXB rest requirements.

- 13th month will be paid to all pilots regardless of base

- Locally employed pilots will receive housing assistance as Level D Local Managers

It is time we start to fight for ourselves.

Pass the word and send it to the Associations

Bengi_25

GK
10th Mar 2001, 07:37
Wishful thinking!

Old China Driver
10th Mar 2001, 08:31
GK....I would ask you, wishful thinking...why is that the case? The reason this aircrew body is in such a state of anger and frustration is because we have allowed ourselves, our careers and our profession to be degraded by an arrogant, incompetent and vindictive management. The proposal put forward by 'bengi25' would be considered THE LEAST ACCEPTABLE TERMS AND CONDITIONS at a proper airline (Delta/United/American/Swissair/Lufthansa/etc..). The fact that such a list of expectations is considered by you and perhaps others to be 'unrealistic' shows just how low we have been taken. Well, it is time that we took advantage of the strategic situation, which well favours us, and use every means possible to show this management that their days of cheapening our value and expectations is at an end. One only has to look at the FACTS that are now established within this airlined vis-a-vis the reality of the operational chaos, the need to expand, the gross profits, etc...to realise that if we don't act now, we will never again have such a multitude of factors in our favour. I hope that many of my colleagues will respond to this thread, so that we can demonstrate to one another that we have ALL had enough, and we will now resolve to fight this pathetic excuse of a management to our deserved victory. We ALL deserve the same sort of careers that the aircrew of many other (far less profitable..) airlines enjoy. It is only through our efforts over the coming months that we will win back the respect and enjoyment that this career should reward. Don't allow your fears, doubt or timidity to disuade you from acting on your OWN behalfs. You, your families, your careers and your very hope for the future is to be determined by your actions over the next months. I will have more to say in the coming days.... OCD

777_Driver
10th Mar 2001, 15:09
Why is it wishful thinking?

The only reason why this sad state exists, is as OCD said it is down to the way WE have let our COS deterioate over the years. Its only wishful thinking because there is a lack of cohesion that exists amongst us. All we have to do is stand up together and be counted and then it will no longer be wishful thinking.

I for one whilst appreciate the unions efforts feel there is far too little going on and I am SICK of CC and minimum GDO's. The Union needs to stop delaying talks and TALK NOW AND ACT NOW. If the union doesnt get some rapid prgress soon everyone will start doing their own thing to get their days off back and will work on 'G's.

Dont get me wrong I am not saying the union is doing nothing but come on Nigel you seem to be all hot air now...

indeepsht
10th Mar 2001, 16:13
Unfortunatly I'd have to agree that this seems like wishfull thinking!

Almost all the points above. Don't effect the people on the payrole that are most critical to have/ get on-side!

The A-SCALE TRAINING/ CHECK AND TRAINING CAPTAINS!!

Without them fighting the same cause, OUR cause, is, and will always be futile!

These are the guy's that will train our replacments when we are fired for wanting just a few of the things that they have had their whole careers!

Many have done too well over their careers or are still doing so to put their jobs on the line with the rest of us!

Only once, in 1999 did many of these gentlemen stand up and try to say no and it's only because THEY also faced the same paycuts as the rest of us. Even then, sadly, many choose to do the right thing by the company and show up!

I truely wish/ hope I'm wrong. Time will tell although.

Midnight Rambler
11th Mar 2001, 00:58
And they keep trotting up to the trough to feed from it!

cpdude
11th Mar 2001, 02:14
The list of requirements sound reasonable and fair from a pilot's perspective. They do however, add up in dollars and I don't think you have to be a rocket scientist to determine the management’s reaction to this proposal. Neverless, it would be useful and proper to submit a list of requirements from which we can work towards.

I also have two recommendations. 1. Remove any reference to "THE MINIMUM THAT WE EXCEPT FROM THIS COMPANY" when submitted to the company. This statement reduces the effectiveness of any negotiations. 2. There appears to be no reference to CXF pilots. The most important fight is to be treated as one. Once we are united by contract then we can work towards other demands.

Samsonite
11th Mar 2001, 18:44
CPDUDE, I do agree with you somewhat but what happens if the A scale guys don't take the next pay cut.Then we do happen to negotiate a rostering package do you really think that they will back the B scale boys? I don't think so! Why would they be interested in confrontation when they have taken their knocks and have nothing to gain but the respect of their B scale colleagues for risking their butts sticking up for our benefits.I know there is alot of the A guys out there that would but i fear there is alot more that wouldn't and would rather not participate and just wait for their Million dollar P fund gets big enough to get out of this mess.I for one am going to copy this and send it to the AOA as this is what the B scale group wants is to be ONE strong group which would be alot harder for the company to divide and conquer

cpdude
11th Mar 2001, 19:14
Samsonite,

I support the resolution, I just wish the 10% of Cathay pilots that belong to CXF were included!

cheklapsap
13th Mar 2001, 13:16
Everybody should support this as a MINIMUM acceptable.
In the meantime, be prepared to forget the factions and divisions in our ranks brought upon us by basings, different scales, conditions, etc., and band together when we are called to do something by either the AOA or by any group of concerned pilots.
I'm sure someone out there is listening!

bengi25
13th Mar 2001, 17:40
Gentlemen:

Do you think GK is management or a M.U.T. (management under training)? There are several replies to this thread; all with positive feedback except one.

We out number management by 100:1 and management is scared to death that someday soon, we will realize that. As someday soon, WE ourselves will realize we have the power to change the things that have gone so wrong.

Again, e-mail the thread to all your mates. Everybody e-mails it to the AOA stating that you want to motion Rule 8.6 and 8.7 of the rulebook. This is the minimum that we will accept.

Also, in the heat of the moment I forgot about our 8 weeks leave.

Remember, that WE have more power than WE think.

Regards

Bengi25

Thrust
14th Mar 2001, 06:42
OK, these ideas are a start. Lets keep adding to them, then WHEN we only get 80% of our demands, we are better off!

In deep..... While it would be great to have the training dept on side they are a MINORITY in our airline and have the least time remaining. They also contain most of the "usual suspects". We all need the support of the "bottom half" of the aircrew body to achieve our objectives. Those mostly effected are at the lower end of the seniority scale and we need to improve their lot the greatest amount. That said we all need to get together on this issue of benefits.

No S/O's on a given day leads to as much chaos as no trainers for our airline ops! Just a thought.

indeepsht
14th Mar 2001, 11:11
Agreed...

But my point about OUR check and trainers training my replacement, and yours, unfortunately still stands!!

GK
17th Mar 2001, 00:08
No, I am not a M.U.T. I am Management Under Turdbull's Training (M.U.T.T.). The training that I am receiving right now is Special High Intensity Training (S.H.I.T.) that would eventually lead me to be the DFO.

Sit, Bengi, sit. Good boy!