To All Prospective Malaysian FOs

[St_Paul_Island]

This really isn't hard. You may either:

(1) Join CX Freighters (M) as a F/O on half or less pay. Fly freighters only, with their associated poor rostering and schedules. Have the "option" to go to pax fleet in three years taken away from you - after all, the ad only says you "may" be offered this choice, and why would CX allow you to massively upgrade your pay when they can keep you cheaply - you are obviously happy being paid the freighter salary after all? You'll not be on any seniority list, so command is probably also optional. You'll have no union representation and may incur the enmity of others who have now been fighting CX on fundamental contractual issues for many years. You'll be on your own.

OR

(2) Join CX as a S/O based in Hong Kong, paid about 50% more* than the Malaysian Freighter salary. Commute home to Malaysia, as your rostering will allow 5 days off between trips - roughly 15 days per month - much, much better than the freighter rostering which has no such provision (just one of the benefits of a stronger contract and union to enforce it). You'll be on a seniority list, so guaranteed to be upgraded to F/O with the associated pay. Fly with about 30 other nationalities and enjoy the protection of a union that currently represents more than 90% of the pilots in CX, as well as others in DragonAir and Air Hong Kong.

*Yes, SOs are paid more than FOs. FOs are paid more than Captains. CX must be the only airline in the world to do this! But if you join on the right contract, with enforceable provisions, you should have a prosperous career. (There are many problems with our conditions, rostering and remuneration, but with 90%+ of pilots pulling more or less in the same direction it will be resolved. The Malaysian FO contract is much worse).

We've been through this before, and said the same things to others. Sadly, many chose to join on a lower salary with reduced contractual protection, and after some years are now complaining about how low their pay is and how poor their rostering is.

Are you going to make the same mistake they did?

[This message has been edited by St_Paul_Island (edited 15 April 2001).]

[QNH1013]

I do like the #2 Option, as I was initially interested in all the way, till the Freighter Add. But you make it sound so easy to get get either one. If only...

I just hope I'm one of the "best pilots in the world" as they say they want, to pass their selection process in the future.

[Liam Gallagher]

SPI,
What you say regarding the SO option is a valid point, particularly as SO's are entitled to Housing Benefits (albeit reduced) and Education Allowance, should that be a player.

However, I cannot agree with what you say regarding the Freighter Option. It is my understanding that anyone employed on the KUL base shall be employed on the same basis as any another Freighter pilot employed post 1st Jan 2000. Namely, they shall be employed by Veta and take a seniority number at the bottom of the CX list. When they have seniority to hold a J/FO position, or 3 years service (whichever happens last) they should move across to the pax fleet as a year 4 F/O. In the event that the company blocks the move to an available pax slot the company's present written position is that they shall pay a type of by-pass pay called "Integration Deferment Pay in the form of the aplicable HK$ salary which the Officer would have received.."

Given that any of the Freighter pilots joining post 1st Jan 2000 were welcomed into the AOA, surely the same will apply to the KUL guys?? You refer to "associated poor rostering and schedules", are you saying that pax rosters are better?

Finally, you appear to hold up the SO on B-scales as an acceptable job within CX. Surely, the SO on B-scale is a denegration of the DE B-scale FO, which in turn was a denegration of DE A-scale FO. It would, therefore, seem accepting any pay scale other than A-scale is unacceptable in your eyes?

[squak7700]

SPI...let's get real.How many times have asian pilots(not HongKongers) applied to CX and not getting reply at all?Many pilots that i know have tried but always the same,no replies or KIV which is conveniently forgotten.I doubt there is any chance even today for asian pilots to be given the shot of a Hong Kong based copilot.

[mole]

Squawker,

You are quite wrong, CX does now employ pilots from a very large number of countries. Our pilots have many different ethnic backgrounds including Asian.
The objection to this new move by our management is only that it does not comply with previous agreements they have made with the HKAOA. Colour, race, sex or anything else has absolutely nothing to do with it. The very fact that many of the prospective applicants from KUL seem to be stirring up a racial pot may be evidence enough that the company is looking in the wrong place for it's future aircrew. We do not want anyone in our ranks who bears a chip on their shoulder about race. We do not have a problem with our race relations and we certainly do not want to see one developing in the future.


[This message has been edited by mole (edited 16 April 2001).]

[Liam Gallagher]

Mole,
You say the KUL base,"does not comply with previous agreements". To what agreements are you referring?

[ButtMunch]

Liam Gallagher, it was so nice when you went away for a while.

blah, blah, blah

[fossil fuel]

mole,
Good post. I agree.

Liam,
quote "Finally, you appear to hold up the SO on B-scales as an acceptable job within CX. Surely, the SO on B-scale is a denegration of the DE B-scale FO, which in turn was a denegration of DE A-scale FO. It would, therefore, seem accepting any pay scale other than A-scale is unacceptable in your eyes?"

Absolutely! It's time to stop making the same mistakes we've made over the last 8 years.



[This message has been edited by fossil fuel (edited 17 April 2001).]

[Liam Gallagher]

Fossil Fuel,

Every pilot in CX has accepted reduced terms in one fashion or another. However, some hold themselves out as superior beings and try to identify a scapegoat to dump the blame upon; whether that be the Canadians, the Aussies, B-Scalers, ASL-scum or this month's punch-bag, the Malaysians.

It would appear that we, collectively, now face our best last chance to make a stand. Whilst not directed at you, we all, individually, need to stop looking for scapegoats and need to recognise it is high time to put up or shut-up!

Edited for spalling

[This message has been edited by Liam Gallagher (edited 17 April 2001).]

[joyride]

This whole issue is just a smoke screen to distract us from the real matter at hand.
Forget it and concentrate on the big picture.

[Mr Nice guy]

Squawk, unfortunately i tend to agree with you from what i've heard from asian applicants.... admittedly, there are less asian pilots in the world suitable for recruitment but there are some out there. Why not give them a go when they can do the same job, meet the same standards etc.? definitely a racial issue i'd say.

[GK]

Here we go again! Can someone please stop this bullsit. A pilot's flying skill has nothing to do with race, nationality nor color.

[Mr Nice guy]

Exactly what I'm trying to say GK!

[GK]

No, Mr Nice Guy, I am trying to tell you to stop stirring up this racial sh!t.


[This message has been edited by GK (edited 18 April 2001).]

[Kubota]

MNG isn't even a pilot. He's a wannabee. MNG, a word of advice: If you want a cadet slot, a job in CX or to have a career in aviation at all, keep your head below the ramparts. This is none of your business, and you know not of what you speak.

[Dogsbolux]

Succinctly put Kubota

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[411A]

MOLE--
No racial bias at CX you say? Wonder WHY the HongKong chinese were systematically excluded from CX flight decks for so long? Really now, be honest.

[HUSTLER]

411A,

You really show a lack of understanding about aviation in HK.

There is NO general aviation in HK ( except GFS, but I doubt you know what that is!), and therefore no supply of pilots.

It was'nt until CX paid for their training that they were able to employ locals and thus giving these Chinese an excellent start in aviation.

You really seem hung up on your race, what a shame & thank god we dont have to put up with the likes of you.

Now quick start typing!!

BTW did you go to the Mahathir School of racial whinging

[This message has been edited by HUSTLER (edited 22 April 2001).]

[Herb]

411A,
You are right of course. There is a racial bias At Cathay Pacific Airways. How many Caucasians behind the check in desks in HK,LA,SYD,YVR etc..........?
How many blonde hosties down the back of our aircraft? ( not a single one out of how many thousand?).
How many Caucasians have had their ATPLs' paid for Cathay Pacific Airways?
Get back in your box 411, there two sides to every story.
ANYONE is welcome here at cx as long as it doesn't undermine any existing contracts.
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

[This message has been edited by Herb (edited 22 April 2001).]

[411A]

HERB--
Well at least you want to engage in intelligent dialogue, unlike Hustler, above. I have been in aircrew training for over 25 years on heavyjet aircraft (base, line, sim) and the foreign carriers that I have worked for all encouraged the locals to apply, so long as they had the relevent experience. If they did not, a cadet program provided the necessary training. Very few problems were encountered. I always found it odd however, that CX, an airline based in HKG, surrounded by Chinese, did not LONG AGO establish a training program for the locals. Wonder why this took so long? Was it because the British employed at CX did not want to upset the applecart? I have trained many Chinese (at SQ) and found them to be excellent pilots in most every respect.

[HUSTLER]

411A,

Once again, miss informed.

Now you that you know we have successful cadet program, you want to argue over why it was'nt started 20 years ago.

It sounds to me like you've been knocked back by CX, am I right ?

And since you have admitted to being from SQ and you want to talk about discrimination, hasnt SQ only just recruited it's first female??

To the rest of you, sorry this guys led my away from the thread.

[411A]

Well hello there Hustler. Nope, have never applied to CX and have no desire to do so. SQ, short of local Singapore F/O's, started training local guys in 1975 I believe. They could have hired expat F/O's (and of course did so on a large scale in 1990, mostly from OZ) but also recognised the value of local pilots. On my rotations thru FRA for many years, only began to notice Chinese S/O's with CX around 1990. Wonder why it took so long. You seem very defensive, so suspect that CX management (and pilots) did not want them.

[BusyB]

411, From my experience of your other posts I am reluctant to respond to you but just to ensure you have heard the whole story here goes.
Up to 1990 CX only employed experienced pilots as they did not really have any sort of training setup by comparison with other carriers. the cost effective way to spend their money was to have a higher standard of selection and pay more money. As they improved and built up their training centre they decided to spend less on salaries (B-Scales) and take less experienced people (SO'S and Cadets). Unfortunately they have now gone to extremes and are not paying the going rate, have a shortage of pilots, and are consequently cutting back on training (an SO used to get 17 Sim details before going on line, he now gets 7).

[411A]

BusyB-
Pity CX did not start their local training program earlier. With pilot salaries in SE Asia with other aircarriers generally lower than the old CX rate, maybe the better policy would to have spent the available funds on enhanced training of locals and not sustain higher senior pilot salaries. Of course, this would not make those senior guys very happy, but suspect CX management will get over it.

[GK]

I think 411A was asking some very legitimate questions as he has no knowledge of what happened in HKG over the last 30 years.

Hustler:

“You really show a lack of understanding about aviation in HK.” Yes, there is GA in HKG but in a very limited scope. The flying clubs in HKG did not provide any commercial pilot training. Under the British rule, the HK CAD were not aloowed to issue a CPL or ATPL unless the pilot was offered employment by one of the local airlines, and CX was the only one at that time. In the 70’s and early 80’s, a few HK Chinese obtained their UK CAA licences but was rejected by CX due their lack of experience. At that time, CX was only hiring pilots with either the experience or have the right connections to the company. Fortunately, those few HK Chinese pilots later found employment with other Asian carriers such as SQ and CAL. The first “Chinese” pilot was hired by DragonAir in the mid 80’s. He is actually an Australian of Chinese origin.

Government Flying Service (GFS) was formed in 1993. Prior to its formation, it was known as the Royal Hong Kong Auxiliary Air Force (RHKAAF). RHKAAF employed a few ex-RAF pilots as QFI and QHI. There are also a few expat and local volunteer pilots. Sir Adrian was one of them. In the mid 80’s, one of the local volunteer pilots became a full time pilot and he eventually became the Controller of the GFS.

And BusyB is correct.

[Herb]

411
Can you confirm that SQ just hired their 1st lady?
You dodged that one nicely I thought!!

[residualvolts]

Common matees, we all know that 411 is right! You want him to explain one female pilot with the whole country, nationality chinese. Everybody knows that CX pilots are paid the most in the aviation world once and didn't want to share that cake. Regarding me being a racist, sorry I'am not the one. Look in the mirror, mates!

[This message has been edited by residualvolts (edited 22 April 2001).]

[RYNCLEE]

residual & 411. Why are you so keen to earn less money?

[BlunderBus]

If being a pilot was the real motivation then why didn't more local guys/girls get off their respective asses(tooshes)and go and get qualified like the rest of us..'long ago'..?
Why do you want to be a pilot son?.....'money'......hahahahahahahahah!...'career'.....soun d of apoplectic coughing fit followed by loud thud!.....

[411A]

Herb---
I have no idea why SQ does not hire female pilots, something in the water I guess. CX management excluded the local guys for a reason, they could NOT stand the thought of a Chinese pilot, F/O or Captain. Only when the Brits decided to hand over the territory to the mainland did local guys come into the picture. 'Tis a shame because many of your "problems" would be solved now, shortage of crew the least of them.

[HUSTLER]

411A,
Man have you got a huge chip on your shoulders.
Have you got any idea what this debates about?
Its about degrading our COS for all pilots within CX, all you want to do is turn this into a racial debate.
Your racial stirring is not welcome here !

[411A]

Hustler--
No racial intensions, just stating the facts as I see them. I am strictly an impartial observer, not caught up in the day to day problems that you at CX have. Just trying to show you that your managements' past policies now have risen up to bite them. The "good old boys club" is not what it used to be.

[BusyB]

411A, I seem to remember that every time a pilot group has a problem with management you leap in to provoke and criticise them. I recall the Emirates thread, amongst others, where you did this. You must be a real blast to fly with. Anyway, your bitterness is showing again, so as far as I'm concerned all your future contributions will be ignored.

[This message has been edited by BusyB (edited 23 April 2001).]

[Herb]

411,
Let me get this straight. You exclude half the worlds population because of "something in the water"
However you blame our woes on the sovereignty of a country.
Boy do you need to go away and have a good hard think about what your values have been based on for the past knows how many years.

[canuck revenger]

411, what compels you to feel you have to comment on other people's companies and situations? I, and no other of my colleagues at CX seem to have to spend time commenting on the SQ forums and threads. Your comments on this and nearly every other situation in aviation (I did a search on PPRUNE to see your other contributions.....good grief, nearly every part of the world you seem to have an opinion on!!) are getting tedious. You have no idea about the REAL situation at CX, and your comments show a bitterness and maliciousness that is telling as to what sort of sad individual you are. I suggest you worry about the situation at SQ.

[This message has been edited by canuck revenger (edited 23 April 2001).]

[Carthorse]

Yes, send him over to the SQ forums. There are so many other idiots stirring the pot there that he will make no difference.

[411A]

You folks really are more dense than I thought. SQ, for all their faults, seem to at least have INCLUDED the locals in their planning and operations, something that CX management has failed to do. And now, when CX pilots need all the help they can get, the locals have turned their collective back on you, just as you (as a group) have done in the past. You guys deserve all the grief that you have, a real sorry lot. The locals must be laughing up their sleeves!

[HUSTLER]

Your an idiot 411A,

You have absolutely no idea what your talking about.
Your jealous streak at the failure of your own career is beyond belief. Your a SH&T stirrer and your not welcome on our posts so F&CK OFF

[This message has been edited by HUSTLER (edited 24 April 2001).]

[411A]

Hustler--
Still defensive I see. Well, this forum is a "public" forum", so if you do not like my opinions, well....too bad. 'Tis a shame that you have effectivly closed your mind to outside reason. You will definately need ALL the collective help you can get. That "old boys club" that the CX pilots have liked for so many years is coming apart at the seams.

[bigblackdog]

Dear 411a
Reference your secret application to the Old Boys Club, I have reviewed your credentials and on behalf of the members have decided to induct you into the brethren. Your ability to implant your head firmly up your own bottom, talk absolute drivel consistently for long periods, and a wonderful talent to adopt a racist viewpoint on any topic has made you a natural. You may even wish to apply for the presidency (as you may have heard our little club seems to be falling apart at the seems so we may need someone with your special skills).

[411A]

Bigblackdog--
Well, at least you have a sense of humor, unlike several others. I have known several CX pilots over the years, some of whom were still there, or moved on to another carrier. They all described an airline with very professional management, generally high pay and good working conditions. But times change, sometimes not for the best as you are finding out now. CX is now just another international aircarrier, with management that has woken up to the fact that it is not necessary to offer the high salaries as in the past, hence the present outsourcing. The glory days are gone for CX crews, and if they want a more "enlightened" management, moving on elsewhere is an option.
But of course other carriers managements have found that outsourcing of crews is a desirable activity. Korean, for example, now offers fairly high salaries, but I am sure you are aware of the problems that lurk there. And then there is always EK, I believe recruiting now. Fancy the desert?

[RYNCLEE]

411, To take your premise to it's logical conclusion,in the future all airline crews will come from Bangladesh. Therefore why dont you leave the business now and get a proper job ahead of the rest of us

[411A]

RYNCLEE--
See you have a sense of humor as well.
You CX guys (and gals if there are any) need all the help you can get with your present "dialogue" with your management. I wish you every success, but suspect the trip will be a painful one. As for me needing a job(?), well I have one already, Chief Operating Officer of a new air freight carrier. And, as I have been a check and training Captain for a LONG time (still active in that capacity) I KNOW the value of satisfied and experienced aircrew, something your management has lost sight of in their quest for the bottom line. One suggestion though, DON'T leave the local guys out of the picture, 'tis a BIG mistake :)

[HUSTLER]

411A,

For the last time this has got NOTHING to do with our local guys/girls, NOTHING!!!

Its about creating a cheap base that will eventually degrade our COS, everybodies COS including our LOCAL PILOTS.

411A, You just dont see the big picture.

Please dont reply to my post

[Peter Zee]

411a,

I wasn't going to post since I am an "outsider" to the CX scene, but since you don't seem to let that get in your way I figured why should I...

I just had to comment though and say, as an outsider, you certainly sound like an idiot in love with the sound of your own voice (so to speak). The sheer volume of your posts, spread over many forum areas like so much manure, would seem to bear this out.

In the interests of saving your time, could I suggest that very few people will ever confuse quantity with quality, and perhaps you could keep your ill-informed racist crowing to yourself?

[411A]

Peter Zee--
"Racial crowing"? Hardly my style, just pointing out to the misinformed that CX past policies have now come back to haunt them. Recall years ago speaking to a CX Captain and asking why there were no Chinese pilots in the ranks. His reply...."why should we bother?" Speaks volumes I think. Although this policy has now changed, these past opinions certainly do not help at present. And to HUSTLER, well he did ask so I answered.

[AACE]

I can't believe you guy's continue to let your self be "baited" by this ****.

Don't waste any more time on him. He's obviously so thick that he will never be able to understand what's really going on.

[mole]

411, last time I reply to you so pay attention!

you are surely aware that Singapore have had an Air Force since the 1960's. Most of the other countries around the region have had Air Forces for rather longer. Hence a ready supply of pilots for their national airlines, together with an enhanced awareness of flying amongst the educated. You must also be aware that Hong Kong has never been a Sovereign Country and thus has never had an Air Force. Please do not reply "what about the RHKAAF" as this is a serious post. Thus no ready supply of pilots for CX or KA and a real ignorance, for a very long time, about flying amongst the educated in Hong Kong. Even now after more than 12 years of cadet intakes CX has trouble finding enough applicants to fill all the courses it would like to run.

However, Hong Kong was, for a very long time, a British Colony. You must be aware that Britain does have an Air Force, so the airlines based in this (ex) British Colony did have a ready supply of pilots. Britain also has a large number of excellent airlines. Pilots from these also wanted to move to Hong Kong and work for the highly esteemed carriers based here. It was also recognised that many of Britains former colonies now had Air Forces and Airlines of their own. Most of which had training programmes very similar to those used in Britain. So pilots from these former colonies were also recruited to the Hong Kong airlines. Clearly, the recruiting policies of the hong Kong airlines has very closely followed the pattern of recruiting by any other carrier. That is use your ex military chaps, plus some from other carriers. Then add a cadet programme when enough of your educated people have a wish to follow a flying career. Still not enough of these in HKG unfortunately. The trend here is still Doctor/Lawyer/Banker/Tycoon etc.

You have complained about the recruiting policies of the HKG airlines in your many and not very varied posts. You complain from a position of ignorance as I understand you have never been involved in the aviation scene in Hong Kong. You can now consider yourself better educated in these matters.

[HUSTLER]

Good post Mole, but I dont think this guy is interested in the facts nor the original discussion of this post.

Though your post was well written and informative to those reading 411A's raving's I think in regard to the person that it was intended for,will ,unfortunately fall on deaf ears.

We at CPA welcome all nationalities, provided it doesnt undermine the careers of those presently dedicated to this company, all of us, black, white and asian.

Apply, join us, but do it properly!!!

[conan]

guys 411 is getting a kick out of rattling your cages . He is probably Cheesecake in another guise. The more you people respond to him the more he will post.
There have been a lot of good replies to his rants, but he isn't interested in what you say only to s--t stir . That's what turns him on. Like the person who pulls the wings of butterflies not for any particular purpose, but just because he can inflict misery and suffering on weaker beings.
He craves attention and will get it in any way he can, rattling your cages is a good example.
Ignore any future postings of his, don't reply no matter how tempting the target. He is like a petulant child who cannot get his own way. Put him in his own room with no playthings. He will throw a tantrum, and eventually cry himself to sleep

[411A]

Mole--
Your reasoning, altho very well written, is flawed in the extreme. For example, SQ trained the first SAF pilot, on the B707 in 1979. How do I know, you ask. Because, my friend, he was assigned to my flight as F/O immediately following line training, and a VERY well trained pilot he was. At this time there are no more than twenty ex-SAF pilots on the current SQ roster. All of the other LOCAL F/O's were trained by SQ for the position, something that CX has (until very recently) FAILED to do. Do you honestly think that, with regard to CX past policies regarding LOCAL guys, that they actually NOW believe you when you say...."all are welcome!
The pilots that CX so desperately needs are better off in the KL base as F/O's rather than in HKG where they have to put up with the likes of YOU!. Past mistakes by your management (reinforced by the pilots at the time) is a VERY big hurdle to overcome. Not likely in your lifetime. Too bad for you.

[BusyB]

Mole, Take it as a compliment to have a self-confessed airline manager tell you you are wrong. Now ignore him like the rest of us. His widespread posts are invariably anti line pilot and pro management with very little regard for the truth or the facts of a case. His self confessed experience level is also suspect, I think he claims he was a Captain since 1975!! Definitely past his sell-by date.

[411A]

BusyB--
Ah, dear boy, wrong again, the correct year is 1974 in heavy jets, heavy turboprops before. Long before your time I expect.

[Panza]

" heavy " turboprops.... hahahahahahahaha

------------------
" If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for everything "

[411A]

Yes indeed PANZA, why even good 'ole CX had some at one time, they were called Lockheed Electra, and a fine aircraft they were. Also long before your time I expect. By the way, how is the KUL recruitment going?

[sigma]

Mole,

I read with interest on your last message.You mention that CX still is having trouble finding enough applicants to fill all the courses it would like to run.
Could this be due to unsuitable candidates in the form of eyesight, hand-eye coordination, a true lack of aviation enthusiasm or some other reasons ?

This is because I hear applications are in thousands.

I agree with your career trend.
Many thanks

[residualvolts]

411A you'd better get out of here. These pilots can't take any more truth! They are blinded by there past mistake of cadetship and they will go blind again, a second time, after their management finish with them lot! I really pity you guys in CX not knowing what racist is and third world countries in which that statement keeps popping up. The truth is out there and boy is it catching up fast...........chow!

[Herb]

What was that?

[411A]

Herb, I think he's got your number. Even more blunt than me, amazing. ;)

[Thrust]

Another unwanted idiot to contend with. I didn't realise you had children 411A!

[Magenta Line]

411,

You keep talking about Cathay's mistake of not training locals until 10-12 years ago. What has that got to do with hiring Malaysian pilots? Is a Malaysian pilot more "local" in Hong Kong than an aussie or European or North American? This KUL basing is just as much an attack on our HKChinese pilots as it is on our expat pilots.

ResidualPr**k, if you think we are such colonial bastards, why would you want to come and fly with us?

[411A]

Magenta Line--
IF CX had trained more local HKG guys earlier they would not now need Malaysian pilots because they would have an adequate supply NOW, Simple supply and demand. Those that have been there for awhile simply do not understand this fact, or don't want to.

[Kubota]

Cessna Twin, you have your head so far up your rear end, I can easily believe you're a manager.

Your convoluted "reasoning" makes you eligible for a political career.

How EXACTLY would having trained Chinese instead of Europeans have avoided hiring Malaysians?!!

Lord almighty! To think I share the sky with you.

[Magenta Line]

411,
Call me stupid but I still don't understand your reasoning. I gather from your posts that you feel you have some form of superior knowledge when it comes to manning levels in mid-size airlines. If your arguments are that good then perhaps it would be an idea with a slightly more comprehensive post than your standard 4 lines.
If it was a matter of just crewing the flights, I would suggest that letting 50 senior captains go on VSS 18 months ago, was perhaps not the brightest idea. Also it surely would take longer to train a local from scratch than to hire an experienced pilot from overseas. I am all for training locals in the right numbers, but overall experience levels in the company is something which has to be taken into consideration as well.
Like most others, I suspect that you have completely misunderstood the intention of the KUL base. It is not a matter of not being able to find suitable pilots elsewhere. It is instead another attempt to undermine our COS and getting people to do the same job for 1/3 of the money.

[This message has been edited by Magenta Line (edited 05 May 2001).]

[411A]

Magenta Line--
Recruiting in KUL is certainly designed to obtain pilots at lower pay. These policies are normally designed by management, for management, for the benefit OF management. And CX sending senior Captains to outside bases also appears to have been designed only to drive down the cost of crew. That those same Captains bought the idea (and lost their provident fund) also appears to have not been the brightest idea on their part. However, if CX management had from the late 1970's started training local guys then they would now have additional pilots available to STAY until retirement. Expats come and go (as SQ has proven time and again) but local guys tend to stay for the long term. SQ has lost very few local guys to other airlines. I stayed at SQ and then like most expats, went elsewhere for better pay. Supply and demand.

[AACE]

411A obviously has no real understanding on this matter & is clearly deranged.

PLEASE do not reply to him & end this thread NOW