To Join CX or NOT?

[Eaglemotors]

A Large life decision looms......Second interview time is looming, and after reading all the posts for the last month,I'm giving serious thought to flagging the CX option away! At least until the company has resolved the major problems it has in front of it! From an outsiders point of view these seem to be (in no particular order):

-Very Very low crew morale
-absolutely no faith in the management from Aircrew
-Very little respect for the workers from management
-A very short sighted, profit orientated management plan ( IF any )


Sure every company I've worked for has it's problems, but most of these are deeply rooted in the culture of the leadership of the company, and possibly it's ownership.They will not be easily solved.
The problem is therefore, wether to stay in a job I enjoy, working with people who are great to work with, and are generally happy in their work, although flying smaller A/c for a lot less money, OR , and I am well aware it is far from in the bag, come to CX !


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check speed..CHECK SPEED..ah forget it!

[colt steel]

I'd firstly get in!!!!!

Then start worring about what its like.

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[moon_towers]

G'day,

If you want to get in into
the new atmosphere,there you go
you apply,up-date and got the interview.

Forsure you've to sacrifice what you've
right now,otherwise.....stay.

m_t

[Thrust]

Pardon?!

[New China Driver]

An over indulgence of Tsingtao or rice wine MT?

:) :) :)

[jagman]

I think Mr Moontowers has been out with Mr Moonshine!!!!
To the question at hand I can only refer you to my 'Apathy' subject started today. A lot of the S/o's and JFO's that I fly with ( I'm a 744 Capt) are very happy indeed because they still compare what they do now with what they did before and count the pennies at the end of the month. Quite nice being a young F/o on a -400 with a good salary (compared to last job) and a Company buying your house for you.
What you see after the euphoria dies down is a Company teetering on the brink of melt down and a Management team that seem unable/unwilling to change a course set, probably in the late 80's.
Good future for such a Company??
THAT'S the question you should ask.......

[Eaglemotors]

Moon Towers.....Say What?

Jagman- thanks for your reply,I guess this decision for me now is wether to look long term and stay where I am (happy)and work towards the next opportunity with a better company. Or look at CX as a shorter term option (Heavy time,Boeing/airbus rating)before looking elsewhere?

Ahh well...back to the study...get a yes first, then make the call...

[SOPS]

MT means what?

[Rated 225mph]

Dear Eaglemotors,

I read you query with interest and I believe I might be in a position to shed some light on my experiences.

Firstly, you do not have the job yet, so a decision need not be made until you are actually offered a job.

Sometime ago, I was at Cathay. I enjoyed it very much when I first got there......very nice and helpful people, big planes, fly fast, make lots of noise etc etc etc. Life was good as a single guy.

But then I realised that living by myself in Honkytown was actually quite expensive. I was in no way living comfortably like my previous lifestyle in my home country. Simple things in life that one would take for granted were prohibitely expensive. Sure for me that was OK, but considering I had another 25 years of service to provide.....was this going to get better......what about the time I one day get married, and have rug-rats climbing the walls in a 3m x 3m play pen / house. I would not be able to bring my children into the world in a manner that I would like. Because simply on the wages you get after a wife, kid, house, food etc etc simply is not what I could have in my home country on a much lower wage.

On an SO / FO / Capt wages, I did all the figures, and they simply did not match up with what the rest of the world had to offer.

So, I packed up and left for a lower paying job, with a better lifestyle. I sort of figured that after 25 years of service with CX - what would I have to show for it....perhaps an OK provident fund, but what happened to that 25 years???? I would never get it back. If was an A scale dude, I would have stayed, as I could have covered the lifestyle changes with the increased pay.

The irony is I actually liked HK. After leaving I have actually now become engaged to a beautiful Chinese lady. I enjoyed my job (except the worry continually about changing conditions of employement...). The people I flew with were much more professional and astute than those I will ever work with. I love Asia and the asian ways. I would have been what I would have thought as the ideal profile for an employee.

But at the end of the day, you fly because you enjoy it. But when you have a family, you also fly to give them the best possible life they can have in this world. When you worry about your changing conditions of service, pay rates, being an expat in a somewhat unsecure 2 systems 1 country ( you could be expelled whenever they like) system........if you like it or not, it rubs off on your friends, family, girlfiend or other. Their lives suffer too.

I did not realise this until I visited my parents on holidays and their first words were "..Do not tell us anything about Cathay - we do not want to know.....by the way, how are you???"

[moon_towers]

sops,
The meaning of m_t is the Tower is
located at tun muen.

and for eagle"study first"motors,
am working for regional airlines,and
the rest you've already read the 225mph.

Be a good boy.

m_t

I

[Thrust]

More moonshine? Hic!

[Peter Zee]

Great post 225! Lifestyle's where it's at. Too many fellows out there chasing metal around....

Cheers...

[Geddy]

You would have to be a hopeless joke not to be able to turn CX pay in a fortune over a career. What on earth did you do with your money? Don't believe the losers who can't turn $10K to $30k per month into a tidy sum over any term.

[still kickin']

Well Geddy, so you're supplementing your career as a financial planner to do a little flying on the side, is it?

What a pin head!

[Rated 225mph]

Dearest Geddy,

With greatest respect, I do believe that you may have overlooked an important part of my ideals - lifestyle.

Everyone has their own aims in life. Some want money. Some want lifestyle. Some want 6 tall blondes on a silver platter.....

When I posted my response, it was with regard to my experiences - not yours or anyone elses. It was to possibly open someones eyes to the other considerations about how the CX position will effect their lives. Or in another light - how any airline could effect one's life.

With regards to my finacial stupidity - I guess I must be a hopeless joke. But by the end of my 25 years I will have just as much if not more assests and tangable goods to show when I take that dirt bath (definately not from stress).......but I will have enjoyed it all a lot more. I will have been able to share my good fortune with my friends a lot more. I will be able to have a less selfish life than what Honky has to offer me.

Confucious says "what is more important - the jouney or the destination???".

It appears that you think that the pie at the end of the tunnel is going to be pretty good - so you sacrifice parts of your life in order to get a big bundle later. But is that pie at the end of the tunnel actually the train coming the other direction??? You don't have much of your life left to enjoy it.....

I prefer to enjoy it on the way before that train gets me.

You have done your sums obviously and think that it is pretty good on 30 grand honky monthly. Good for you. You are content with your bank account - excellent. I hope you enjoy it to its fullest - and I am sincere.

I have done my sums with comparison to the rest of the world, and have found a better offer for me elsewhere. Simple.

Remember that ultimately the decision rests with the individual.

One thing I have noticed though - since I left, the bitterness has gone out of my life. I do understand people get upset - it is part of life......but ask yourself why your posting has so much anger in it???

You might begin to enjoy life a bit more when you understand why. A good pilot will always review their decisions and performance. But are you actually a pilot??? I suspect not.

Anyway - back to my yummiest double chocolate mud cake and mug of mocca. Cheers!!!

[QNH1013]

Would you say Emirates would be a better career then, lifestyle and pay wise? Cathay offers the expatirate the housing, school and other benefits that are necessary to help with the standard of living in HK. Likewise with EK but at the end of the day what you have left over in your pockets for personal lifestyle use is what counts.
Any thoughts anyone?

[Thrust]

It's "horses for courses" Some would prefer the lifestyle the other employer offers and vv. Speed to command and therefore reward are a consideration. Location and job security are other worries. Too many variables to say one is better than the other.

15 years ago I would have prefered CX. Today maybe not. What about in 10 years time? Who knows. Given a choice I think I'd have to choose Delta, United, American etc etc.

[CCA]

Pay at EK is definitely less and I'm not sure about the lifestyle but I haven't heard many complaints.

[This message has been edited by CCA (edited 04 March 2001).]

[balu_777]

Rated_225mph,

Would you mind telling us for which airline you are working now (where's the lifestyle so great)?

[Longslip]

The journey is the destination.

[10sne1]

Geddy;

Call us back when you turn 30. Things change.

[Scooter]

Eaglemotors - like everyone said get the job first and then worry.

For the record I'm now based in Oz after some 15 years in HK.
The pilots are very professional,the training is excellent and HK still has a great atmosphere.
Try it first then make up your own mind.
Some young pilots have realised it wasnt for them and gone back to their respective countries flying.
Some have left and come back also!!

What are you flying at the moment???

If its anything less than an airline job then I would say you've got rocks in your head if you never took the opportunity.
I dont know your marital/kid status either.

Overall I would say for a single guy the job is great and down the track there is always the possibility of a basing offshore.

If lifestyle is important as 225 says then try for a job in your current country or go to say Air Mauritius or somewhere in the Pacific!

As a TV commercial I saw years ago said "You'll never never know if you never never go!"

[offblock1]

Interesting posts!
Would you consider the lifestyle with an ec basing also bad. For ec standard the pay is ok and I could imagine the roster is ok as well. What do you think or what is your experience? I hear of gentlemen from Lufthansa thinking of joining CX in fra. Good or bad idea?
Also I would be interested what the influence of china is on cx.Why would they let cx make all the money if their own airlines could do it. Can there be a contractual stability at cx with the chinese so close? Does cx have a future under this regime close by? Currently cx is doing quite well if the papers are right, and have great plans for the future.

[This message has been edited by offblock1 (edited 24 March 2001).]

[dvrfly]

Interesting points!!! I've got first interview on Monday. This does shed some new light on the matter. Anyone out there who recently did a first interview? Any hints, help or info would be appreciated. Either by email or posting. Thanks for all the good gen, esp 225.
Cheers
Fly safe and keep them wings level!
DvR

[Eaglemotors]

Second interview.....Been there done that....Now the real decision has to be made!.... :)

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check speed..CHECK SPEED..ah forget it!

[This message has been edited by Eaglemotors (edited 30 March 2001).]