EXETER

[brabazon]

Given every other UK airport seems to have a thread time for one for Devon's finest International Airport?

Flybe have announced their new routes including some new sun routes to be operated by their damp leased 737-300s - including Palma, Malaga, Alicante and Brest and more Q400 services, to Leeds Bradford, Liverpool.


How about charter services for the summer and who's bidding for the airport?

[MerchantVenturer]

This is the provisional list for summer 2005 on an Exeter Airport enthusiasts' page but they do stress it is provisional.


Mon

Madiera SATA B733/ A320 1050/1140 02/05 - 27/06 & 29/08 - 31/10

Gran Canaria Futura B738 1135/1235 02/05 - 24/10

Menorca First Choice B752 1450/1550 02/05 - 24/10

Corfu Aegean B734 2025/2110 TBA

Dalaman Pegasus B738 2025/2125 02/05 - 24/10

Tue

Malta Air Malta A320 0845/0935 03/05 - 14/06 & 26/07 - 25/10

Palma Spanair A320 1140/1240 03/05 - 25/10

Toronto Air Transat A310 1145/1325 03/05 - 25/10

Tenerife LTE A320 1300/1400 03/05 - 25/10

Wed

Paphos First Choice A320 1755/1855 04/05 - 26/10

Thu

Lanzarote Futura B738 1135/1235 05/05 - 27/10

Lanzarote Iberworld A320 1210/1310 05/05 - 02/06 & 28/07 - 27/10

Fri

Dalaman Pegasus B738 0730/0830 06/05 - 17/06 & 22/07 - 28/10

Malaga Iberworld B738 1020/1120 06/05 - 10/06 & 15/07 - 21/10

Crete Aegean B734 2100/2200 TBA

Sat

Faro Euro Atlantic B733 0920/1020 07/05 - 29/10

Rhodes Aegean B734 1020/1120 TBA

Innsbruck Austrian Arrows F70 1240/1310 21/05 - 17/09

Ibiza Air Europa B738 1405/1505 07/05 - 18/06 & 30/07 - 22/10

Palma Spanair (type TBA) 1420/1515 07/05 - 29/10

Palma Air Europa B738 1520/1620 07/05 - 18/06 & 30/07 - 22/10

Tunisia Nouvelair A320 1830/1930 07/05 - 18/06 & 30/07 - 29/10

Sun

Antalaya SunExpress B738 1900/2000 22/05 - 24/07 & 04/09 - 30/10

Bodrum TBA 2035/2135 01/05 - 23/10

Larnaca Eurocypria B738 2145/2245 01/05 - 23/10


Re your post, Brabazon are they really serving Brest with a 737?

Now that the Exeter arrivals are on the Ceefax it is interesting to see the services available.

I am actually surprised at the dearth. I know it is midwinter but some days there are no more than nine arrivals (and presumably the same number of departures) in a 24-hour period, and these are all Flybe. Some of these are newish routes started in the past twelve months or so, so before them traffic must have been almost non-existent on some winter days.

I note First Choice is the only charter operator at present (apart from ski flights on Saturdays) and even First Choice only seems to appear on four or five days a week. Perhaps one or two more will appear in February?

I can see now why Flybe has spotted such a gap in the market (in fact there almost was no market) and am not surprised at its continuing tremendous acceleration in its route structure at EXT.

[WindSheer]

Merchant Venturer I am a bit confused over your last post, you say some days there are only 9 arr/deps all of them being FLYBE.
FCA currently have 9 deps a week from EXT so how does that work?
Not trying to be arsy, just a bit confused:confused:

[Air Hop]

Flybe are I believe planning to use the B733 on all sun routes including Brest.

Currently it is not only FCA operating charter, Air Europa, Air Malta and Austrian all operate throughout the winter with more operators as the season moves on.

:ok:

[brabazon]

Flybe's use of the 733 on Alicante, Palma, Malaga and Brest shown on Expedia. Faro is down to be operated with a 146-300.

[MerchantVenturer]

On Wednesdays (including yesterday) the only flights shown were those of Flybe (all scheduled). The same thing happens on Sundays and possibly on one other midweek day (I can't be sure about the latter).

I did say 'apart from ski flights on Saturdays' of which there appear to be three, operated by First Choice, Flybe and Austrian respectively.

I also said that 'perhaps one or two more (charters) will appear in February'.

I have since checked the Exeter Airport website timetable and find that the weekly charter flights to Paphos, Malta, Faro, Funchal, Palma, Malaga and Monastir do not run in January, most having taken a winter break since the end of November (with a re-appearance over Christmas/New Year). The seven destinations mentioned above are due to return in February or March, depending on destination.

So presumably this accounts for some of the 'missing' weekly First Choice departures at the present time.

Anyway, my general point is that I am surprised there are so few flights. I thought there were more. I am not surprised that Flybe has grasped its opportunity. The only surprising thing to me is that they have waited so long, especially as the airline is based at Exeter.

I believe Flybe are doing well with their EXT initiatives. Very good news if they are because we in the west/southwest can do with a first class air service, and destinations such as Brest and Toronto (I know this one is not a Flybe route) that are not flown from any other west/southwest airport are very useful in the overall regional picture.

[JobsaGoodun]

FYI

Last year Flybe operated the FAO, AGP and ALC with a based 146-300. This year will be no different however rather than the aircraft sitting in EXT for a couple hours after its morning rotation, (as it did last summer),it will operate to BES and back, therefore ensuring maximum utilisation of the aircraft.

Whilst I may agree that maybe a Q400 is what this route needs, I guess that there is not one available. You have the based Q400 doing the standard JER?GCI runs and another couple of domestics with the addtion of a late EDI flight, which appears to operate after the arrival of the evening Q400 from JER/GCI

I too have heard the rumours of the 733 operating the FAO, AGP, ALC and PMI routes and Astraeus have recently advertised for flight deck to be based at EXT but maybe this will take place later in the year as the peak of the summer takes hold.

I guess we'll have to wait and see, but it looks like the CDG will be operated by a 146 too!

[Nakata77]

I have serious doubts about the sustainability of Brest from Exeter, exascerbated by the fact that the consensus is they are going to employ a 146 on the route. Surely the demand is too thin for anything other than a Q400. I shall watch with anticipation.

As for the B733, this (from internal sources) is only planned for BHX operations and not EXT unless necessary in tech or other problems.

Can anyone confirm this for me from another viewpoint.

[loveJet]

And what about Exeter to London? this strikes me as an obvious one for Flybe to do maybe from SEN or STN 2daily with q400. Give air southwest a run foir their money. (unless ASW are considering it!) needless to say it needs to be low-cost.

Jet

[Trislander]

Nakata,

Two 737's will be based at BHX and one based at EXT.

Cheers, Tri :ok:

[EGTE]

Yesterday the Exeter evening paper reported that Centreline are to run charter services to London City from Exeter using a King Air 200. Seats will cost £350.00 - providing all are filled. Bet that lasts long!

[WATABENCH]

All i can say is, and i've said this before - EXT handling great peeps but quite slow on getting pax out to a/c, but hey the girls and their knee high boots - WOW:ok:

[GROUNDHOG]

Exeter to Brussels would be good for all of us that live in the far South West where it takes only one and a bit hours to drive to Exeter and nearly three to Bristol.

It would save changing at Bristol, Gatwick or Manchester if flying from Newquay.

[GrahamK]

A second daily EXT-NCL perhaps? Or an increase to a Bae146 on the current flights?

[caa19]

having spoken to some senior people at BE recently the AEU damp leased 733s 2 are BHX based and 1 EXT based. they will be used on the fat, long and hot med routes i.e. AGP, PMI, ACE etc where the 146s arent that cost efficient and there is strong demand, still only a S05 arrangement at the moment to see what pax reaction is and loads are

[Devonair]

Saw this article in today's Exeter Express & Echo.

12:00 - 04 April 2005

£29 flights from Exeter to Amsterdam are set to start from next January
Exeter Airport could be linked to a second important European hub within months, it has been revealed.
City-based airline flybe, which last week began flights to Paris, has told the Echo that flights to Amsterdam are likely to be running by January next year.
Under the plans, a 74-seater Bombardier Q400 would leave Exeter Airport for Amsterdam Schiphol twice a day.
The fast-growing airline would also run two services back from the Dutch capital with one-way prices likely to start from £29.
Flybe sales and marketing director Mike Rutter said: "We are committed to growing flybe in Exeter.
"In our sights is Amsterdam as we think the success we are seeing with the Paris route can be continued.
"I'm as confident as I was with the Paris route that we will operate it."
Like Paris, the Amsterdam flights would give passengers from Exeter the opportunity to join other airlines' services to destinations around the globe.
Schiphol Airport has around 250 onward destinations.
The flights would operate to accommodate business needs with early morning and late evening departures.
However, it is expected around 40 per cent of the seats would be occupied by leisure travellers.
Flybe has been convinced to run the service following discussions with the business community about its travel needs.
And bosses have also been delighted with the early take-up of the Exeter-to-Paris Charles de Gaulle service which has exceeded expectations.
Mr Rutter said the airline was considering new flights to Germany later next year, with Geneva and the French ski resort of Chambery also firmly on the radar.
The news has been warmly greeted by Exeter's business community which says the flights would be another major step forward for the city economy.
Devon and Cornwall Business Council chairman Tim Jones said: "When we were looking at developing European hub links Schiphol was top of our list, but we understood that because of the level of competition that would be unlikely.
"So the opportunity that now emerges has come forward much more quickly.
"This is a very exciting opportunity and indicates the new desire to travel from regional airports.
"If we are looking to cover all the angles in opening up business in the South West it's a dream solution to have Paris Charles de Gaulle and Amsterdam Schiphol."
The new route could see more than 100,000 extra passengers travelling through Exeter Airport every year.

I also believe Aberdeen is on it's way soon and possibly Norwich. Would love to see Manchester too. I Know Liverpool and Leeds begin in June but I think Manchester would work well too. Will be interesting to see which German routes are being considered. Will do wonders for inbound tourist figures as Germany (as will the Netherlands) is a key overseas market for Devon & Cornwall.

[Irish Steve]

delighted to see all this new activity around Exeter, I used to live there, and still visit regularly, and for a while, I had a light twin based there, before we moved to Dublin.

I wonder if there's also a market for a second rotation a day to DUB. If nothing else, an early arrival in DUB would open up the transatlantic routes, and they are often cheaper than going to London, and there's also the very real advantage of clearing American Immigration in DUB before boarding, which saves a load of hassle the other side, and a 50 minute hop to DUB from EXT then saves double that, plus a lot more in other time and costs compared to 3 hours of coach to London to then have to fly back over the ground covered.

At long last, Flybe seem to have been able to generate the critical mass to allow them to become a recognised player in the west country. Now, it needs some creative work by the (shortly) new owners of EXT to really promote the advantages it has.

It's close to the motorway network. That's a big advantage over Bristol, which is a PAIN to get to from anywhere. It's got good weather, most of the year, so there's less risk of the flights being disrupted. It's a reasonable size, so aircraft that suit the route can be used, the runway is large enough to allow that flexibility.

I can think of other things that could be promoted, but that's not what I'm here for.

Hopefully, we'll see a real upsurge in the activity in the west Country, and Flybe, or others, will reap the reward of their hard work.

Time will tell, here's hoping the news continues to be good.

[MerchantVenturer]

That's a big advantage over Bristol, which is a PAIN to get to from anywhere.

I live nine miles from BRS and it certainly isn't a pain for me to get there. ;)

I have studied the monthly CAA stats since Flybe started 'competing' on some of the low cost routes from EXT that easyJet flies from BRS. Almost without exception the BRS loads each month were higher on all the routes compared to the previous year, and they were at least good, usually very good to excellent even then.

The EXT loads too have been largely in this category.

Before anyone chides me I realise that yields are the really important thing but loads do show whether there are people who will travel if the product is the right one.

All this suggests to me that there is a discrete market for EXT that doesn't appear to need to syphon pax from BRS to not only survive but be tenable.

EXT like BRS does have a good proportion of well-off people willing and able to travel. It is also a rising business centre, although will always be a comparative tiddler in this respect to Greater Bristol which provides 25% of the GDP of the entire South West government region.

Anyway, the bottom line appears to be underlining the good news that the far Southwest can support a decent portfolio of services and EXT is obviously the only real player in that game.

[Nakata77]

I am amazed actually by the demand shown from EXT. I'm worried it may reduce the ability of BOH to capture the people living to the west. If EXT was to gain a German route i'm sure it would be full of tourists - but how much would they be willing to pay? yields might be disastrous like they were on Bournemouth to Hahn.

I don't think LPL or LBA would be sustainable from EXT if a MAN service was added, but I could be wrong. It really surprises me why Flybe haven't already added a London service from EXT. Surely slots are more easily obtained from Stansted than Amsterdam?

[brabazon]

I am not sure how many slots are available at STN particularly in the peak periods, but I would suggest that the average yield for AMS would be higher than STN.

On MV's point about EXT "syphoning" off BRS pass, it's always difficult to know what's going on unless you talk to the passengers. Many LCC pax are flying because of the low fares and either may have used an alternate airport before or wouldn't have travelled. You may be surprised how far people do travel to get a bargain - some people will effectively drive past other airports to get to the one with the lowest fares - or that they think have the lowest, if they haven't done their homework!

[MerchantVenturer]

brabazon

My point is that BRS pax numbers have not declined on the routes started from EXT, in fact the reverse in most cases.

Now obviously I cannot say that individual people have not switched their travelling to EXT, I am sure some have, but overall EXT has thus far prospered as well as its neighbour.

I take your point about the habits of some pax in search of a 'bargain', and we know the LCC genre generates pax who would not have flown at all.

For example, when easyJet had two daily rotations from BRS to AMS last year in competition with KLM's four, the total monthly passenger numbers for both airlines were approaching 30,000. When easy dropped one of the rotations monthly figures reduced by around 7,000-8,000. The KLM rotations remain but the 'lost' easy passengers have not all flocked to that carrier.

Interestingly, easy hinted at the time of reducing their AMS schedules (BRS was not the only easy airport to suffer a reduction) that Schipol costs were the reason. Yet Flybe appear able to absorb them if the newspaper article quoted by Devonair is accurate.

There is an interesting article in today's Bristol evening newspaper that suggests Macquarie Airports are now firm favourites to purchase Exeter Airport.

An 'industry insider' is quoted as saying that Macquarie, who own Bristol Airport together with the Spanish Ferrovial company, are concerned that Bristol's physical limitations will not permit all of the expected massive growth there over the next decade.

They are therefore looking to use EXT as a sort of 'overspill' (my words) and one scenario sees one of the airports (presumably EXT) used primarily for charter traffic and the other for scheduled stuff, although it is not suggested the two would be mutually exclusive.

If there was a common owner for both EXT and BRS it ought to produce exciting possibilities for the entire Southwest region.

[brabazon]

Not convinced by the dual airport approach. Can you think of other examples where it has worked successfully? Also Devon County Council will be looking for different things to Bristol/Avon (or whatever it is these days).

[terrier21]

How about the two Rome airports that are owned by Macquarie?!

[WATABENCH]

Theres rumours in EXT today that EXT has finally been brought by the owners of BRS, pax have been telling staff all morning that its been in local press tv and radio, anyone else heard any more on this?

[terrier21]

A couple of news people have asked to speak to marketing!

[Nakata77]

good news for Bournemouth if this is the case, as BRS will want to protect itself from too much development at Exeter.

[GROUNDHOG]

To be precise the local news says that the part owners of Bristol are the likely purchaser of Exeter - not that they actually have!

[MerchantVenturer]

CAA provisional stats for August in respect of most UK airports are published today.

EXT carried 100,557 pax last month, up 36.3% on the previous August, obviously their best ever monthly figures.

Figures for the rolling 12 months til the end of August are 771,479, up 46.3% on the figures a year ago.

The million figure cannot be too far away- some time in the first half of next year?

[Buster the Bear]

Good news for a very under estimated airport. Far too many folk by-pass Exeter, now less of them actually need to!

http://static.zsl.org/images/width150/bear-04-web-305.jpg

[MerchantVenturer]

Buster

I think that's why the owners of BRS want to get their hands on it.

Not to run it down or subordinate it to BRS as some in the far south west seem to think (hence the current OFT enquiry into the proposed sale), but to run the airports as complements.

In June BRS went through the 500,000 monthly barrier for the first time and now EXT has breached the 100,000.

The BRS figures are holding up well on the routes on which EXT has competed over the past year or two, so there is plenty of room for development at the three main airports of the government's south west region, the third being BOH which carried over 97,000 pax in August (up 100%) for a rolling 12 months of just under 700,000 (up 42%). With PLH and NQY providing important niche routes the air services in this part of the world are bouyant at the moment.

For some reason SOU is not in the official south west region, although BOH is.

[Wycombe]

...SOU is in Hants, and BOH is in Dorset (about 30-35 miles further West), guess that is the reason.

[GROUNDHOG]

Neither of which are in the South West. Mind you anything east of the Taimar is 'Up Country' anyway.....

[MerchantVenturer]

Neither of which are in the South West.
Probably not geographically, but what's geography when it comes to government thinking?

The government south west region consists of Gloucestershire, Wiltshire, Dorset, including Bournemouth and Poole, the constituents of the former county of Avon, Somerset, Devon, Cornwall and Isles of Scilly.

As Wycombe points out that's why BOH is in the southwest region but not SOU.

Ideally each sub region would have its own airport.

NQY for Cornwall. EXT for Devon and south Somerset with PLH providing a local back-up service. BOH for Dorset and parts of Wiltshire. BRS for the rest.

Would be lovely but as we know life's not like that.

[GROUNDHOG]

Your not wrong MV - logic seems to have little to do with government or anything relating to local authorities!

[PAXboy]

Rather than start a new thread ...

Visited EXT today (19th) for the first time to drop my mother off for a FlyBe to LPL. A rather nice little place you have there!!

When the check-in agent said that their might be delays, it was clearly the usual (I know there are delays but if I tell you, you will ask me questions to which I do not know the answer and will delay me more)

The delay is announced on the PA "For operational reasons" which leaves one wondering if they are consolidating flights or have a machine gone tech. Then a human being advises there was bad fog and all early rotations delayed with subsequent knock-on. One always wonders why the PA did not say 'Fog'!! Anyway, only an hour's delay and she made the connection back to the IOM.

By the way, I am fairly sure that I accurately identified the Hunter that landed (late morning) but could not i.d the black painted ex-mil G-VETA?

Thanks

[Devonair]

As I am in Australia at the moment (and have been since January) can anyone tell me if the terminal front has been completed yet? They were bringing it forward 10 metres, putting in a lift and doing a few other things. It was meant to be completed in July but the website doesn't mention anything.

[WireFired]

Yes, the Terminal Extension is finished.