Plane Torture, say Passengers (Jetstar)

[Wirraway]

e-travel blackboard

Plane Torture, say Passengers
Mon 31 January 2005

A young Melbourne family endured a late-night "torture" flight from the Gold Coast of lengthy delays, a plane change and a
detour to Brisbane.

Belinda Jones, her three children and other family and friends were among more more than 100 passengers on the Jetstar flight, which finally touched down at Tullamarine at 3.30am.

The six-hour nightmare was a bitter end to a dream holiday for the Craigieburn family.

Ms Jones said passengers often were not told what was happening, , and were only offered a complimentary drink and food more than four hours into the ordeal.

It was especially hard for her children, Jesse, 6, Blake, 3, and Leah, 18 months, she said.

"It was like torture for my kids.

"I'll have to really consider it before I fly again. I just felt sick."

Also, relatives who drove to the airport to pick up the group panicked for hours when the plane failed to turn up.

Even hours after midnight, information screens in the terminal still showed the original 11.30pm arrival time.

Ms Jones's brother, Robert Borg, who was also aboard, said his family feared the worst.

"They thought we might have dropped off the radar," he said.

Family members called Gold Coast and Melbourne airports, Jetstar and Qantas, but no one could even tell them where the plane
was.

Mr Borg said passengers could not use their mobile phones to call Melbourne because they were still aboard.

The Jones family was so late, Year 1 pupil Jesse had to miss his first day back at school on Friday.

Jetstar corporate relations manager Simon Westaway said staff acted in passengers' best interests to get them home

"The priority was to get the passengers to their destination, albeit late, rather than them having to stay an extra night in
Coolangatta," Mr Westaway said.

"I apologise if people were not getting enough information about what was happening."

The airline would investigate this, he said.

The 8.30pm flight was delayed by 35 minutes, but then returned because of a jet fault.

By 11pm, passengers were moved to another plane, going to Brisbane.

The plane later sat on the tarmac at Brisbane for almost an hour, waiting for fuel, then took off at 12.30am local time.

Mr Westaway said mechanical problems with the original plane meant it had to return to the Gold Coast. Airline staff then had
to seek approval from airport management to take off after the 11pm curfew.

Local refuellers had already left for the night, so a flight to Brisbane was the best option to get enough fuel to fly to
Melbourne, he said.

Mr Borg said he expected to get home at a reasonable hour.

"I do expect the airline to show some compassion for family waiting without word, and I expect to be reimbursed for a flight gone totally wrong," he said.

"Jetstar has its 30-minute policy, and you stand to forfeit your flight (if not there 20 minutes before departure)," Mr Borg said.

"But what happens when you lose a day's work?"

However, Mr Westaway said that Jetstar had recorded the best on-time performance of any Australian airline in six of the past seven months.

============================================

[Capt Fathom]

Well, you get what you pay for!

[Chimbu chuckles]

No worries lady...get a frigging bus next time and spend 14hrs sitting bolt upright..for the same money.

[Kaptin M]

Pay peanuts - get monkeys!

JetStar is becoming the zoo of Australia's airlines!!

[tobzalp]

No pot stirring, but if J* goes US at the end of the night, do they pay to put up transiting passengers?

[Eastwest Loco]

topzalp - Despite the fact that I consider the airline an airborne dilate and curette, they do appear to provide accommodation for passengers stranded by an unserviceability etc. the NTL incident is a case in point. Despite the fact they rolled the A320 without the SLF the next morning, they did at least accommodate them overnight.

The ones I worry about are the cabin crew. They have had the shallow end of the gene pool inflicted on them with the ultra cheap fares. It must make a day at work a complete nightmare.

I was told today that land values on HTI are going China Syndrome due to the type of passenger being flown in on cheapies.

Brave new world?

Best all

EWL

[Zapatas Blood]

This is a single report from an unreliable source - namely an e blackboard where absolutely no filtering of the information occurs. It should not really be used as ammunition against an airline.

[one ball]

Were they made to stand on a box on tip-toes with a cone-shaped hood and fake electrodes on their fingers while grunts took snaps?

No?

Then it wasn't torture..... They just had a bad day and a mate in the media.

In fact even the above electrode-scenario wasn't really torture. Read "Bravo 2 0 " for a better idea of the definition.

And eel, don't you even start....

[PureRisk]

Come on...as someone said, you get what you pay for.
People use to say Virgin were the guys who didnt get into Qantas. Well these are the guys who couldn't get into anyone !!! (Implulse).
The whole outfit from the day go has been measured as the GA airline who you dont want to be compared to. I would say this whole amature(ish) mob is on the comparison to the Greyhound bus service. Except most of the staff in greyhound have probably had more than two weeks in the transport industry.
A shonky company providing shonky service.... what a disgrace in what use to be a truely first class industry !!!!!

[schnauzer]

Don't it make you feel good to know that big Trevor is there to fix the whole shebang though? :ok: :ouch: :ouch:

Pure Risk, you can't blame the pilots with this one though. Yes, they are a disgrace and have been rejected by everyone else, but in this case it wasn't their fault.:E

[Lodown]

Yes, they are a disgrace and have been rejected by everyone else, but in this case it wasn't their fault.

Are you referring to the pilots? I would strongly disagree with you on that. So you're saying that Jetstar employs substandard pilots. Is that correct? On what do you base your opinion?

what use to be a truely first class industry

and

a shonky company

And you measure this by???? The industry has matured and is not just for the deep-pocketed elite anymore. Jetstar appears to be expanding, so they must be doing something right. How's the domestic market for Qantas these days? Your "first class industry" is still there. It's just a little harder to see behind all the aircraft buzzing about carrying the "peasants" for a profit. And the deep-pocketed elite have purchased their own little cruisers these days.

[QFinsider]

The Big T@rd
At least he isn't in the lift anymore :E

[Buster Hyman]

They need to get Magda involved in the delays, you know, telling everyone how good the A320's are.:}

[tinpis]

I was told today that land values on HTI are going China Syndrome due to the type of passenger being flown in on cheapies.

You mean Queenslanders EWL????

:uhoh:

[NAMPS]

When I was reading the headline I was half expecting to read an account similar to that of ...

"one of the engines exploded in mid flight causing the plane to enter into an inverted spin. We all thought we were going to die but the pilot managed to recover just a few feet above the trees. Unfortunately things got worse when we got to our destination, there was another plane was on the runway. The pilot conducted an emergency procedure by putting the remaining engine on full, the plane went up rather steeply and I was thinking 'this is it, we're all going to die!'. Thankfully the pilot managed to land the plane and things were OK, apart from the fact that the plane looks a bit second hand. The thing that really got up my nose however was the fact that we were'nt told what was happening."

[Mr Lucky]

PureRisk it may be appropriate to refrain from denigrating a group of professional pilots about whom you obviously know nothing.
Most of us didn't fail spelling at school either!

Schnauzer , you too!

[schnauzer]

You are absolutely correct, Mr Lucky. I shouldn't denigrate these guys and gals. After all, they do a terrific job of it themselves.:p

[Big Jan]

Just as a matter of interest schnauzer or pure risk.
Do you mean that any pilot currently flying with Jetstar would not come up to standard to get into either Qantas or Ansett when it was around ?

[Animalclub]

"I do expect the airline to show some compassion for family waiting without word, and I expect to be reimbursed for a flight gone totally wrong," he said. From Mr Borg.

It's amazing the number of times that inconveniences can be equated to COMPENSATION. I thought that I left that behind in PNG!!

Mechanical things fail... workers go home after their regular shift if there's no work... the law precludes departures during certain hours. I don't know the Jetstar operation but it would appear from what is on this thread that they did a reasonable job - except for the communication with passengers. Notice that I said "from what is on this thread"!!

Been there and done that.

[schnauzer]

Ahhh jeez. I was just having a bit 'o fun, Jan. Don't get your undies all twisted about.:ok:

But there are are remarkable number there who failed the testing! Lookout in the bunker! Incoming!:E :E :E

[Mr.Buzzy]

And a remarkable number who get through that aren't worth a "pinch o' billy goat poop"

bbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Mr Lucky]

I repeat Schnauzer, " about whom you obviously know nothing".

[knackeredII]

It seems Jetstar pax don't read the back of their tickets. It states in plain english that Jetstar will "try" and get you to your destination on the day and time planned, but there is no comeback if they don't. And NO refunds will be considered. Wonderful business model!

[fourplay]

What an embarrassment to the nation.
I miss AN

Please God send us a Premium product QF competitor!

[ditzyboy]

knackeredII -
You will find those terms in on almost every airline's Conditions of Carriage. Some airlines choose to offer customers more compensation than others.

For the most part JQ will get you to your destination on time and in one piece, bags attached... And they do it cheaply. That of course doesn't sell news stories!

Shame about the communication at Tulla. Pretty poor effort by the sounds of it! Watch out for some new policy or procedure to be implemented soon so as to avoid this problem next time... Reactive management sure is cheap but puts employees and customers offside. Why oh why can't potential problems be avoided BEFORE they occur?! Is it asking too much?

[Pete Conrad]

Been saying it all along, you take a bunch of guys that couldn't get into a a professional airline in Aus, add no seniority list, low pay and the catalyst for pay for training and what do you get? An infection in the industry worse than galloping knob rot, the impulse infection.

[Mr.Buzzy]

Oh yes of course and there is only one "professional" airline in Australia right pete? Just take a look at how that "professional" airline is treating its staff right now. Perhaps those of us that have CHOSEN not to work for the "professional" outfit have a little more insight than some.

bbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbzzzzzzzz

[ratpoison]

Well all these toss pots on about the great QF and its recruiting abilities.

Well Well, at least Virgin can land in a rain shower and not end up on the Par 3. !!!!!!!!!!!

[bigfella5]

.......or..........maybe for whatever reason, these boys n girls couldn't get at shot at "Q" and took whatever they could to get their dream job. Maybe they've got families to worry about, kids to feed and school, bills to pay and don't have the time nor career opportunities left for any number of reasons, to take a moralistic stand against the man....so to speak!

maybe......just maybe......they and their ilk NEED (unfortunately IMHO), quite badly at this point in time the so called PROFESSIONAL group of pilots currently inhabiting various red coloured flight decks to show some courage and stand up to Dixon and his type and stop the bollocks thats going on right now.

What about you Pete?.........Assuming that you're a Rat rider....what the hell was that last pay increase?!!!!.......3%.....are you kidding!!!!????

Is that how a "PROFESSIONAL" conducts and applies his/hers industrial relations!!!!.

Gimmee a break.........
Maybe you Southern Highland/Manly/Cronulla/Baulkham Hills Shire etc dwelling nitwits need to do some REAL hard yards and change the future of this industry!....
Oh sorry...What was that you say???.....been offered a management and first officer possie now........what was that you say......moving from the squalid flat living with your parents in Carlingford into new digs (thanks to ANZ) down at Maroubra/Manly/Glamarama et al,.....well well....wouldn't want to upset those apples now would we Pete old son....Cadet were you?...
Listen Petey boy, Snauzer etc........the reason those people are where they are and doing it tough is directly attributable to whining little nancy boys such as your dear selves that inhabited GA paying for time, working for nothing and once in the place where they could something....didn't.
!......goodness knows I've met enough of them!!!!......the ONLY way that airline both minor and major is going to change is if somebody high up in the chain has the balls to get up and do something drastic.........By the way......have there been any Jetstar/Virgin aircraft landing on any golf courses lately?
:E

[sirjfp]

I don't know if anyone else saw the photo of the " tortured famliy" in the Herald Sun . I know I shouldn't judge a book by it's cover but they looked like a library full of bush pigs.

Does jetstar now have booking offices at centrelink ?

[Douglas Mcdonnell]

PureRisk. A new entrant in the lets see who can get away with the most abuse contest. Kinda funny really. Having worked overseas I can strongy vouch for the guys I work with. You are obviously a "Tough Guy " youngster.

As for professionalism Im sure I dont need to mention bangkok, Darwin, Canberra, Sydney ( alignment problems?). Im sure I dont need to go on. Just remember. Fold those maps well and please hop out of the seat by 10000.

Things havent really changed in this country in the last 16 years have they?

DM

[schnauzer]

Careful, DM. There but for the grace of God go I.... 'an all that stuff.

Does jetstar now have booking offices at centrelink ?
Nahhhh, sirjfp. It's just their pilots that hang about there....!:{ :{ :{

Perhaps those of us that have CHOSEN not to work for the "professional" outfit have a little more insight than some.
Thats buzzy's way of saying "I was rejected 'cos I'm short several chromosones".:ouch: :ouch: :ouch:

[bigfella5]

Bit of a bugger that spelling concept eh Schnauzer?!
C'mon son.........you're starting to sound like Kornholio!!
Really....:E

[schnauzer]

Yeah, big fella, but I mean to misspell cozza my kraut accent, an' that.:p

[Douglas Mcdonnell]

Schnauser, exactly. Thats what I have been thinking recently. Unfortunately most of the posters on this forum that are involved in Jetstar debates are only interested in deriding the charater of fellow pilots. Most of whom they havent even met. Quite frankly, It paints a poor picture of airline ops in Aus. Most pilots being somewhat educated, could probably understand the actual input into the running and management descisions, that line pilots have. PRACTICALY NONE.

Of course though, the problems that jetstar has, as any airline has, are in your chidlike eyes are the pilots fault.

To hang your hat on an outdated and subjective testing sequence only highlights your ignorance as to what makes a good pilot. I doubt that you even work for any sort of airline, as an attitude such as yours would usually be picked up and quickly discarded in a proper interview process.

At the end of the day, it doesnt matter what school you went to, what cadet course you attended, how much you earn, what golf club you are a member of or how good at bagging other pilots you are.

It comes down to how you operate the plane and get on with others.

If you were flying me some where, Id dissembark and take the train.

DM

[Big Jan]

So schauzer,Pete etc.Are you including the Mainline pilots flying Jetstar aircraft in your sweeping assessment of their skills and character.:uhoh:

[Douglas Mcdonnell]

Interesting question Big jan. I guess they would have to be included. But hang on, they have passed the pegs and blocks test. This would also be the case for the EAA recruits.

Where on earth could this all be leading?. If I had anything more than a primary school education, I might be able to work it out on my own. Without copying anyone elses work!

Perhaps they did too well on the testing?

Struggling to read my own posts, DM

[Capt Stabbin]

You guys are the most pathetic bunch I have ever encountered in the world of professional aviation (and I use the word "professional" very loosely). Not only the morons who do the fishing (PC, Schnauzer), but also those dumb enough to "bite". No wonder this profession is being further devalued everyday.

It's a nice day outside! Have you nothing better to do than slag each other off on a friggin' internet forum? Jesus H Christ! Get a life you sad, sad tossers.
:cool:

[Mr.Buzzy]

Thats buzzy's way of saying "I was rejected 'cos I'm short several chromosones".

Thats right shizen, Where else would you get your extras? And do tell us Mr. psychometrically correct mind. how many extra "chromosones" do you have?

bbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzz

[bigfella5]

So Stabbin darling........that would make you?.......:ok:

[Capt Stabbin]

Bigfella, unfortunately for you I am not so mentally challenged as to miss the irony of my post. But someone had to say it.

[ditzyboy]

sirjfp -
No booking desks at CentreLink... It's the Shop-A-Dockets attracting that demographic!

Whispers between two JQ cabin crew after boarding:
FA1 - Call Australia's most wanted.
FA2 - Why?
FA1 - Tell them we have everyone!

[Eastwest Loco]

Good call Ditzy

I personally getting sick and tired of the undereducated shallow end of the gene pool dwellers that think Jetset and Jetstar are the same thing.

We get them all the time 2-3 calls a day minimum. When you try to explain to them that we are a Travel Agency and yes, we can book you on Jetstar or any other carrier some actually get agressive insisting that they called Jetstar.

Apart from the passengers who are forced to fly JQ because of lackof alternatives, I do not envy Ditzy or any of his mates dealing with SLF that in general would make Cro Magnon look clever.

The Melbourne Spirit of Tasmania services used to be the "housing commission taxi" within the local industry. It now has a dead set rival.

Hang in there Ditzy - It surely cannot remain this ordinary.

On an aside, I am sure that the JQ (and DJ, ZL, QQ and QF dom) crews are some of the finest in the world. I have never doubted that for a second.

Its is sad seeing once proud passenger liners carting coal.

Best regards all.

EWL

[schnauzer]

Jetset and Jetstar are different? Aye carumba.

And do tell us Mr. psychometrically correct mind. how many extra "chromosones" do you have?
Just the standard number, buzzy. But I do have a couple extra inches since you ask....:ok:

Not only the morons who do the fishing (PC, Schnauzer)
Sh1t, I've been caught!:}

[Eastwest Loco]

schnauzer - I think in many cases they could corner the "spare chromosome 27" market.

See me after class anyway!!:=

Best regards

EWL

[Animalclub]

Getting back to the topic...

No matter which airline to which you pay your money they do NOT guarantee to get you anywhere.

A flight ticket is not a contract - it is just a receipt for monies paid.

[ratpoison]

Capt Stabbin,

Keep your blasphemous filth for your wife and kids and leave it out of the forum. You china, are the sad sad tosser.

[schnauzer]

Right - who said that?

Stone 'im! Stone him!

All I sai was that piece of halibut was good enough for Jehovah!

Stone him!

[VH-Cheer Up]

This has to be one the most depressing threads in Australian aviation this year.

So an LCC sets up an offers tight seat pitch, no frills and low fares to holiday destinations.

No doubt CASA requires similar standards of proficiency and skill from this airline as it would from one with a greater seat pitch, higher fares and more colourful paint jobs. Anybody here really think they lower the bar, really?

For some reason, when an LCC offers comparatively lower fares, some people here are surprised the customers include people from working class backgrounds. Not just the Toorak set looking to save a few pennies on their way to their HTI timeshare. They neglect the fact the same budget-concious battlers also take advantage of same low-fare offers, however sparse, offered by other airlines.

When something goes wrong with the arrangements for a flight sector, the passengers are kept in the dark just like they would be on a full-priced airline, and being late at night, nobody at the arrival point updates the SLF's nearest and dearest via the airport displays.

The real problem here is that the airline gets Mr Westaway out of bed after the paper starts hitting the front lawns. If only they got him up a few hours earlier, he could have ensured the crew kept the SLF informed, and, just as important, that the appropriate information was made available at various points where it might be considered useful by those looking for it. For example, airport displays, recorded flight arrival information service, and the company website.

By all means slag off the intellect of the passengers. It's not like they are providing revenue for the company or anything, is it? Huh?

Then by all means slag off the flight crews. Must be their sub-standard attitude that makes them defect an aircraft that would be perfectly airworthy with half the requisite number of engines. Surely an A320 could make the journey on one donk? What's with those guys?

Anyone think their outfit could have handled this incident better, please share...

But if you blame this incident on any of:

1. The tech crew skill/qualifications
2. The IQ of the passenger or their loved ones waiting on the tarmac at the destination point
3. The Meeja

... then please go to the room of mirrors and have a good, hard look at yourself.

VHCU

[Woomera]

This has to be one the most depressing threads in Australian aviation this year.

Agreed. Take note all you people that continually slag off at each other, and hijack threads with your own pathetic excuses for doing so: Woomera is watching you. If you don't wish to suffer the same fate as Kornholio, I suggest you moderate your language!

Should you choose to ignore this warning, we will continue to the next step of mass-blocking IP's. And yes, we did it a few years ago. So if you want to spoil it for everyboby, keep on doin' just what you are now.

Cranky Woomera (Eastern States)