Roster Changes

[bigblackdog]

13,000 roster changes for December!!!!? I am told that is information from the C&T meetings held recently, could any one confirm this? It is no wonder that about every fifth contact I have with CC is in fact a request for reduced rest or discretion and on the odd occasion just a plain assumption I will accept the reductions or extensions anyway.
It looks like contract compliance is having a significant effect.

[Thrust]

I've heard the same figure. A 600% increase on the same month the previous year.

As an aside; I tried to contact CC today to find out my crew for a flight coming up. After 11 minutes on hold I gave up. The next time they call me on reserve I'll have my wife put them on hold for the same period!

Stick to our contract compliance; it's all we have until we vote in something more serious.

[BUSDRVR]

I can confirm 8 of those 13,000 changes in December and the Irony I did the same Christmas duty as I was rostered after 5 changes, however Not with the same Cpatain.

I feel we should turn up the heat, I think we lost the window of opportunity in December. I am just hoping the AOA knows best!

[Screaming Lord]

I think the figure was only 12,000.
They can cope with 12,000, any more and the wheels fall off.
C & T Dept (the Bus in particular,) are now getting more pro-active in the offensive against the tail (NR) that has been wagging the dog.
SL

[OC41]

Thrust - against data protection act for them to give your crew over the phone, anyway they presumably have better things to do with 12000 changes of roster. If you did that at a UK Airline you'd be up for tea and biscuits with the Chief Pilot, which might be an indication of "the grass is green like your colour scheme"

Almost Joking,
Rgds OC

[cheklapsap]

When and if I want to know who my crew will be, I will find out! Data protection has nothing to do with it. You ask, they tell. Simple as that.
Not 'only joking'.
To all the rest of you, keep up the good work.

[BusyB]

OC41, I don't think that finding out the names of the crew you are operating with is in breach of Data Protection Act. It is in fact essential for Flight Safety for the Relief commander to assess his rest in preparation for the duty. Knowing which base your skipper is from enables you to do that.

[OC41]

Data Protection Act might be different in HKG perhaps, or just ignored. If you worked for BA they cannot give out this info prior to sign in for flight according to info given to crews.
The point of my message was, even if you are in militant mood or not towards the Company, your Crewing blokes should have better things to do than give out "whose my crew".

Sorry for offence caused.

OC

[Samsonite]

Where is CAD is what i would like to know?If this was any other airline in the real world they would be shut down.The magazine Air transport world just put out a good article about the Indonesian govtmt cover up of the Silk air crash.The NTSB found all of their findings absurd.The article then says how all it has done is slow donwn the process of govt agencies actually looking at the stress in a pilots life.Apparently his financial and personal stress does mean something,just not here in HK.When your roster doesn't even come close to what was written then you know there is a few rules being bent and CAD isn't doing a thing.

[had it]

I've heard that the company is denying that they are pulling crew from short haul and the simulator to operate to LA YVR and YYZ. Simply because they have no records of such occurrences .
Great! don't keep records and it didn't happen.
I do not know what the legalities of this are , but if I arrive at work expecting to do a TPE split duty or simulator duty ending at 11pm I do not make provision for pre flight rest. To then find that you have been ordered to operate a long haul flight is as I read it in contravention of Vol 1 4.6 which states
"All crew members shall make optimum use of the opportunities and facilities for rest provided, and plan and use their rest periods properly. Crew members must recognise that the responsibility for being sufficiently rested before undertaking a flying duty remains entirely with the individual"
Well unless you are psychic it's impossible to comply with the above requirements. It's also the company's requirement to prepare duty rosters sufficiently in advance to provide the opportunity for crews to plan adequate pre-duty rest. I do not consider 20 minutes as suitable notification.
Yet again it begs the question why are the CAD, who are supposed to be the enforcers of the laws of HK doing nothing about the breaches that occur on a daily basis.? I do not have an answer so I'm afraid that you will have to draw your own conclusions on this

[indeepsht]

If you like your roster work it!

If you don't and ...

1) you don't like the speed in which the rostering talks are moving.

2) you don't like the amount of reserve on your roster.

3) you don't feel your sufficiently "FIT" for your next duty. (both mentally and physically)

4) you don't like the number of roster changes.

5) you don't like the amount of time your employeer is giving you with your family.

DON'T!!

It's time you ALL looked at youselves in the mirror and decided what YOU are prepared to do to fix it!

Only when YOU have the ball's to stop the rot will it stop!

Forget about a handfull of people who would be happy to continue to work on b-scale's, forget about all the ex. dispute guy's and what are they going to do, forget about the guy's that are just plain chicken!

There is enough of YOU out there to make a difference without them. After all who wants a coward on side anyway!!

[had it]

I'm there in the deep and smelly with you
a really good post

[This message has been edited by had it (edited 18 February 2001).]

[jagman]

Samson has a very good point - Where are the CAD?? I'll tell you where - they're in somebody's pocket or else they would have done something by now.
London flight last week every crew member except me called out, 1 from the sim , 1 from reserve and 1 from another flight. Guy from reserve DT'd back to HKG same day he arrived in London in order to be back in HKG for his 'G' day.
13000?? Let's make it 15000 - they can't go on scraping through like this (they can if we AND THE CAD let them).

[New China Driver]

I have reason to believe a STC was called out from the sim recently to op a training sector on the freighter to ANC. I am sure he had plenty of warning to rest himself for that.

[Thrust]

OC41, as others have alluded to it is definitely my business to know who I'm flying with before hand. Perhaps that's why they publish a roster (falls around laughing!)

Our crew control will let you know who you are flying with at any given minute however we run the risk of making contact and finding ourselves doing another duty.

I love it if it takes me 10 minutes or more to get through as I know they are in chaos. I'm only sorry that I have to effect the working life of the crew controller to better mine / ours. At least the root problem is not of my making.

[Apocalypse]

Yes its about time we ALL became unified
and stop the rostering abuses that continue to plague the lives of all our families.
If we speak and act as ONE then the system will crumble. The SYSTEM, however, will triumph if we continue in the way we have been going in the last few years.

WE MUST BE UNITED AGAINST THE COMMON ENEMY

[water check]

WHAT A JOKE THIS AIRLINE IS...!!!!!! How much longer are we going to put up with this breath taking level of incompetence. Nearly EVERY SINGLE rostered flight so far this month has been changed. Needless to say, I have had enough. It is months since I have had ANY idea as to where I am actually going on a day to day basis. This is no way to live!! The scary thing is the management seeming inability to address what the real problems are. I don't think I can stand to read another letter from Rhodes of Barley, or any of the other manager for that matter. They really are living in cloud cuckoo land....! EVERYONE OF US MUST CONTINUE TO ENSURE THE MAXIMUM IMPACT OF CC. There is no other way to see the end of this horrible mess of an airline. EVERYONE OF OUR MANAGERS MUST GO.....NOW!!!! Ask yourselves....can you go through the rest of your career working under these conditions. We have NO say in our lives....no ability to get a particular day off, no ability to choose with some degree of preference where we want to fly....etc, etc.... We MUST get rid of this management, otherwise we will all succumb to health problems, family problems, marriage problems. If that is what you all hoped for in your aviation career.....then do nothing.

[Panza]

Water check

Good post...but its just not going to happen. Without the support of ALL pilots in CX its a huge uphill task. We have let the best opportunities pass.. ie Xmas and Chinese New Year. With the heavy training going on the C & T 'ers can really put pressure on the company but all I hear at Flt Dispatch, when their flights are disrupted or changed, is Yes Sir .. No Sir when can I help you Sir. With out them on our side we are finished. Also, and unbelieveably, the same old ex dispute story is alive and well in CX. Does not paint a pretty picture. Six years of CC and another pay cut looms... time to step up a couple of notches.

It amazes me how evil flourishes while a few good men stand around and do nothing

------------------
" If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for everything "

[thepenguin]

Bloody good post there Water Check. If we do nothing to resist, then we deserve our fate

[This message has been edited by thepenguin (edited 20 February 2001).]

[cheklapsap]

I'd put money on "something" happening, sooner, not later as just about everybody who's not a company suck is at breaking point.
Logically whatever it is will happen after the profit share is announced so that we, the evil pilots, cannot be blamed for the reduced share management are softening everybody up for.
(Loads are down, costs are up, America's in recession, new planes have to be paid for. Sorry we can't pay you the share of profits you expected. However, rest in the knowledge that MY share is OK. Signed D. Turdball)