Second Officer QUIZ?

[18weeler]

Question:
How much longer will a second officer's upgrade take everytime a s/o shows up for a flt and there are 2 s/o's there to operate?
A) 1 year
B) 3 years
C) 7 years

THINK ABOUT THIS S/O's!!!

[Samsonite]

I couldn't agree with you more.Did they not read the pay proposal from NR?12 years to command for an s/o just joining and and that is assuming the present 18 months to upgrade which will not last for much longer considering we aren't ordering anymore airplanes so lets say 14-15years to command and that is if you make it thru the 1st try?Another thing NR didn't mention was an increase of housing allowance for s/o's which isn't a big deal when it is only for 18 months but gets a little harder when it is for 3-4 years.Don't fool yourselves it has been that slow before and will be that way again.You should try and and remeber who are trying to improve things for you.NR isn't worried about how long it is going to take for your group to become f/o's as he wants to slow it down further by starting up asian basings which is going to take away even more of those f/o seats for you guys to fill.Think about it!

[Jennifer Lopez]

Why do you senior blokes show up for flights, since we are not properly staffed? If you didn't fly, then the company would had to train more pilots...

It's easy to pick on a S/O that just joined, or just got off probation, but I don't think they are reason for the slow upgrades. Why don't you refuse to fly with two S/O's, don't have the balls?

[fossil fuel]

No, alot of them don't. But that doesn't mean you can't stand up for yourselves. Trust me, if this company started rostering 2 SO's it would have a very big impact on your upgrade, not to mention the flight safety aspect.

Comply with your contract.

[Samsonite]

J LO,If you are showing up for work and there is 2 s/o's doesn't that mean someone did have the balls.Now that wouldn't be you as it sounds like you would be one of the guys standing there in dispatch.Like the post ahead of me if you don't watch it 2 s/o's will become the norm and than guess how long till command.Anyone here who isn't a Captain has more hoops to jump thru till we are in the left seat or get our QL or the JFO.They are all milestones that WE ALL have to go through so lets stand up togeather and not look out for our own little personal agenda.
Cheers
Big ones

[thisistheword]

It's bad enough a company using S/O's at all. They are simply cheap labour. Yes, the position itself has a small amount of merit (time to get used to it all blah blah)but the fact reamins - it's cheap for the company. Ans now they try to get 2 to fly on a crew - rediculous and unsafe (in my view).

I agree that the Captains have not been pulling their weight in this regard. Indeed many of the Captains and A scale F/O's have been tardy in their support of the rest of us in recent times. Trust me gents - it has been noted and I trust the AOA will encourage these chaps to set the example in the near future. If not, then thanks for nothing those who are happily sitting on A scales!

S/O's don't have the practical ability to refuse to fly with another S/O - that's the skipper's call. Just wait - the company will slip this situation into the 'normal operations' slot whenever they can. We are soiling our own nest by not putting a stop to it here and now. I, for one, would not like the thought of a 4 year slot as an S/O.

As I said before - S/O's are vulnerable. We will support as far as we can without risking the company looking for an excuse to make an example of one or more of us.

[tuck]

Billy, stop stirring, you don't even work there. The replys just make the poor old
S/O's feel worse about their lot. The more "senior" pilots don't even stop to consider that some S/O's might even have a great deal of experience. But until that magical upgrade they are still thought of as the chewing gum under the capatains shoes.

[Farcome]

Stuff the ambition to become an S/O, might stick to the jump pilot scene.

[cheklapsap]

Surely the problem here is that crewing ULH with two S/O's is legal, so the only way a captain can refuse to take the flight is to assess the experience levels of ALL his crew. How does he do that when the Relief Commander is weeks away from starting his command training? Any ideas please, to this Forum.

[bigblackdog]

CLS, you are right, it is a tough one for the skipper as it is a technically legal crew on paper, but is it safe? Funnily enough it might not have been legal before the blanket 18 hrs for ULH was surreptitiously introduced as everyone had to earn their FDP extension with the appropriate in flight rest. This sometimes meant burning out the Relief who now, surprise, surprise is doing the landing as well. The whole practice is a fiddle and should be banned except maybe used like the 3 pilot option to get the aircraft home
In the meantime if it was up to me: If the relief F/O was under 12 months in that position OR was on the same time zone as the Capt, (ie. either capt or F/O would be landing unrested off his/her local time), the duty would be unsafe. Enough cancellations would get some attention I’m sure.
Just a thought.

[ess jay]

Guys, Qantas has been operating like this for years and years. Its legal and it is real. You dont need a fancy F/O who thinks he has some sort of poor mans command to operate a 4 man crew. You need 4 men!! Nothing more,nothing less. Sort out if CX is going to be your career, or get out. Find yourself a similar job in a real country. If they could some how operate with 4 S/O's they would! Remember when 400 S/O's flew on the 777 even though they did not have a rating!!!!!!!!!!!! Bells are ringing!!

[Don Patrol]

ess jay smells like 'cheesecake'

[cheklapsap]

As much as I don't want to feed our new cheesecake's ego, I wonder whether he could advise on whether QF operate as we do with non-rated SO's and sometimes Relief Commanders without ATPL's? Does QF actually endorse (!) their SO's as we used to, and does QF always operate with two SO's?

[BUSDRVR]

the flight to YYZ departed yesterday, 10 April, 2001 with two S/O's. You all know the one, the flight that is 15-16 hours with a twelve hour time change. This 2 S/O crewing is becoming the norm!

[RadioFlyer]

Tonight's flight to Zurich has 2 S/O's operating.

And I don't think ess jay is cheesecake; cheesecake, at least, was articulate. This guy's just dumb.

[18Wheeler]

Just so there's no confusion, guys, the 18weeler that started this thread is not me! ;)

18Wheeler - Billzilla - Bill S - The original, and the best. ;)