Proposed new head for pilots!!

[pokemon]

Hi comrades,
I'm back from a long long vacation and was shock by Mr. Butter's fancy dream i.e. deleting the posy of chief pilot and making it open for everybody including the FLIGHT ATTENDANT!! and obviously the head of F/A may manage us. Oh my goodness. So guys, grasp a tray and practice how to serve tea & coffee in a choppy cabin. This may be your base check soon.

[Neutral Stability]

My dear chap, it would appear that you may have returned from your period of absence somewhat early. Might I humbly suggest that a few more weeks may just do the trick!

[This message has been edited by Neutral Stability (edited 06 November 2000).]

[critical aoa]

Good to see the forum is back. Pls. make use of the opportunity to let the world knows what's going on. Avoid personal attack as this will give Them the "right" to take the topic away again!

Be professional, Only truth will conquer!!

[drunkfist]

Hi everybody,
Glad to see GFS flyers speak up again. In fact it has been quiet fow while. I think some of the old comrades may have quitted or been squeezed. Mr. Butter is trying to create another big jokes among the aviation counterparts. Well, he has the right to do so but not at the expense of the dignity of pilots. How come the F/A be a chief of professional pilots. Chief purser, or WHAT EVER as they like to call, is always the head of F/A. What licence are you having? Is it internationally recognized? e.g. ATPL. Oh, let me clarify further. I mean Airline Transport Pilot Licence, not Airplane Tea Pouring Licence. If you want to earn your Chief post by your Mickey Mouse licence, you'd better wait til the opening of HK Disney. :)

[This message has been edited by drunkfist (edited 12 November 2000).]

[This message has been edited by drunkfist (edited 12 November 2000).]

[satcom]

Do you need a licence to be a manager ?
Manager may manage better if he has a licence.

[critical aoa]

Hay M. Satcom
Yes, manager doesn't need a license. But here we are talking about professional matters. Well, let me put it in layman's term. You can not share the same view unless you're in that person's shoes. ie: if your are not size 10, they just won't fit you. If you are not trained to be a COMMANDER (as stipulate by ANO) How can you lead?!

Can anybody tell me if there is any flying organization has a "Chief of Aircrew" or Director of Flt Ops that are not/has been a PILOT?!

[thedeadseawasonlysick]

critical aoa,

Virgin Atlantic.

[pokemon]

It is a question of professionalism and dignity. Why we call ourselves as professional pilots? It's because of the difficulty and the effort involved in achieving an internationally recognized licence. If you've got a ATPL(Hey Drunkfist, I really mean it!), in principle you can get a job anywhere. But what recognizable licence do your F/As have? None. Have you ever heard about the term professional F/A? No. F/A is F/A. They can't fly even though they have a pair instead of a single wing. I'd prefer driving licence to the F/A's. At least, it is useful when I wanna drive.
It's becoming obvious that Mr. Butter wants the non-professional to lead the professionals. It's a bold move of revolution but I can guarantee that it's stupid. It does not make sense if a pilot command in an airplane but is commanded when he is in office. This is totally wrong in concept.

[drunkfist]

It sounds like some of our local guys are quiet on this issue. I recogn they are now satisfed with their pay, esp those who have been promoted recently. At least, the pilots union hasn't voiced out any object.
We got to think about our future. It doesn't matter who will be the COO or CAO, as long as these office holders are PROFESSIONAL PILOTS. Mr. Butter, if you think the local pilots will not be qualified for these post by then, why don't you consider recruiting from CX or Dragonair? There must be suitable candidate out there. This is more sensible than promoting the useless deadweight.
P.S. To all those F/As, don't ever think you can learn flying by watching at the back! If you want to be professional, study hard & get the licence. Our licence were earned with tear, sweat & blood.

[Girl Flying School]

How many pilot have left GFS in the last 6 months?? The money may keep the senior guy's mouth shut, but the junior pilot may see the light at the end of the tunnel as an exit point.

The promotion prospects on the pilot side has been deteriorating for the past few years. If the union don't react to the CPA post being taken away from the pilots, then thing will only get worst. Next thing you know, the crewman will be giving approach instructions from the jumpseat (not that they don't already).

[critical aoa]

Why guys stay at GFS?
Mostly not because of pay. We all know that money can only bring SHORT TERM re-enforcement.The more you make, the more you spend/want. It is to a certain extent, the nature of the job! Patricular the choppers drivers.

HOwever, as the guys grow older and wiser, this childhood desire:'to serve those who are in need' will subside. There is little room to bend over backwards before it breaks.

To GFs management, you got a great bunch of guys wants to have a career here. Don't force them out to airlines by making silly move like this. For what you've experienced, it is only the beginning. If you go against the norm, (pilots are professional, can not be lead by non-professional) I am not threating you, you got a big staff issue to explain to CSB when the guys vote with their feet!!! :mad:

[This message has been edited by critical aoa (edited 20 November 2000).]

[pokemon]

The guys in gfs really wanna be a real aviators. It's you who made their warm sincere with flying jobs being cooled down. Do you think it's wise to get a chief F/A to lead all professional pilots? You are dame fool! Can your designate a non-pilot to manage the pilots' affairs? No way. He can't even hold the yoke but instead he has managed to hold your shoes and clean them. Anyway, you like such kind of management and this can be judged by how you feed LAY-LAY.
Professionals alway hold their dignity, not like you, they won't lick, or compromise. If you mess with them, as what crit aoa said, they can vote with their feet.
By the way, have you counted how many of your staff are still loyal to you? (p.s. LAY-LAY is not counted since he's not mankind according to Darwin's evolution theory!)You'd better think of the answer yourself. It's shame if you can't even know your popularity among people. But I can tell you, More than half of your pilots have sent out their CV. Be prepared, more to come, including your lovely F/A.

[Girl Flying School]

BB does not get paid to be popular. He could careless if his staff likes him (a sign of all good managers), all he want is for them to fear him. He rules with intimidation, he does not lead by example.

He was given the task to localised GFS and he has done that. As long as local pilots don't leave, everything is rosy. Until this happens the pilots will get push around. BB knows he can get away with it. However as Newton said, the harder you push the harder it will push back. One day the straw that broke the camel's back will be placed......by BB himself.

[This message has been edited by Girl Flying School (edited 23 November 2000).]

[pokemon]

Girl Flying School,
In fact, a large portion of local pilots, if not all, are thinking of move. There is a semi-secret circle among them exchanging job market information. I think early next year, there will be some leaving.
Mr butter doesn't respect our professionalism at all. He just want a batch of local pilots who can follow his trail like what LAY LAY has done. It rest with our guys who would stand against him to protect our professional status. At least, we speak up in this forum, not bark!

[drunkfist]

Mr.Butter's F/As always call themselves professional. However, have they ever acted as professionals. They just know how to expand their hierarchy but don't know how to do their job well. How can you call yourself competent if you don't know how to use your equipment. How often we heard about some senior F/A forgot to press CBs and fxck up the equipment demo? How often you find some F/A's currency lapse but without any intent to renew? How often...? How often...? That's not important. But I should ask you guys: how often we have an illiterate dreaming to be a chief of professional?
He might be behind you. Watch your back chaps! :)