SIA crash at TPE

[jagman]

Anyone from CX have any inside info on this one? IE were you in TPE at the time. It's pretty well covered in 'rumours and news' but no input from any of us as far as I can see.
Terrible accident. Condolences etc.

[Mr Nice guy]

Nasty accident.... Just out of interest, are Cathay pilots under pressure from the company (direct or indirect) to takeoff even in bad weather?

[Screaming Lord]

What's "bad weather"? Aircraft limits are laid down in black and white in the limitations section. Crews are well trained up to and exceeding those limits in the Sim. The captain has his own comfort level based on his "extensive" experince, but it is invariably a crew decision. They let us get on with the flying I have to say whilst they concentrate on dicking with our lives in all the other related areas. I'm getting cross again, signing off.

[jtr]

About 30 min before the crash the ATIS was something like 010/36G58 RVR 600m +RA SCT 002 OVC 008, and the tower were reprorting braking action as poor

[jagman]

There has been pressure from our gallant GMF in the recent past for pilots to get on with it and go BUT we must never succumb to this kind of intimidation because if you go and get into ANY trouble at all our intimidators will retreat into the woodwork from whence they came. Better to be 5 hours late in this life than 30 years early in the next.
If you don't like it - DON'T GO.

[This message has been edited by jagman (edited 01 November 2000).]

[Mr Nice guy]

Hi Jagman, I highly respect pilots such as yourself because you obviously put safety first.

[Warhawk]

Reports that Captain said he 'hit something' late in T/O roll with port wing have been confrimed. And investigators have found an 'extra' A/C wheel & tyre on the RWY that doesn't belong to SQ 006. X/W reported to be 20-30 knots at time and RWY braking action poor.

Condolences to all involved, there is no nice side to these things. B4 we all slam these guys just remember. "There by the grace of God go I".

[Enola Gay]

From what rumours I heard SQ 006 when it originally took off from Singapore had to return shortly after Take off as it suffered an engine failure. They then transferred the pax to another a/c and it then went on to Taipei - Anyone know any more on this? I also heard Singapore airport had closed for about an hour that day so that the aircraft could return?

[Rolllingthunder]

True, We had to hold for over 20 minutes so they could get in, don't ask me why.

[akerosid]

Just reading the Straits Times, which has quite an impressive coverage of the crash (i.e. doesn't show any evidence of official censorship) and it refers to an accident involving a Mandarin 737-800 earlier in the day (showing tyremarks where it seems to have veered off a bit).

One question that concerned me: having been through TPE a few times with CX, most SQ flights seemed to have used 06/24, as did basically everyone except CI? Was there a specific reason (i.e. closure) that SQ used 05L/R on that evening?

[fossil fuel]

Probably because 05L is a LWMO runway and the RVR was 400m.

[casual observer]

Enola Gay:

You are mixing two incidents. The one that had an engine failure was a London-bound flight.

[Thrust]

I have no love for Singapore Airlines but it's a real tragedy that this occurred. It's going to make a great CRM exersise going through all the factors involved.

The old "chain of events" raises its ugly head. Of course the Captain and to a lesser extent the F/O's will sholder the blame. No matter what the other links were.

Very sad.


[This message has been edited by Thrust (edited 04 November 2000).]

[MaxThrust]

Weather was definitely a factor. Whether its stress on the crew having to takeoff in these conditions or visibility out or the cockpit or visibility from control tower since they could not see the aircraft when it lined up. One has to ask the obvious questions though.
Did the crew follow their position on the Taxi chart? Did they have the ILS tunes to confirm the centre line of the runway, which I believe, was required for this departure?
Was the F/O aware of a problem before T/O and said nothing about it.
And more importantly why did the Captain takeoff in such terrible wx conditions. I for one would have delayed until the heavy shower had past. No loss of face in this just common sense.
The SCMP are now saying the aircraft knocked over a concrete barrier and lost part of it right wing before takeoff. Was this another incident of "OH we've screwed up lets get the hell out of here at all costs so we don't lose face" or just an accumulation of many different pressures a captain faces on a night like this which got the better of him and his crew.

Lets all hope it was not OTP.

[Jaded]

Why is it that when I drive to work and the guys are working on the roads there are stop signs, flashing lights and illuminated arrows to warn me.

When I get to work, late at night in the rain I have to read about it and squint at a chart with minute writing in a poorly lit flight deck?

Time for traffic lights at airports.

[Thrust]

So now I read in the SCMP that manslaughter charges are likely to follow. While not wanting to give any credence to this report it is a worrying development.

The local Govt dept's will run the enquiry, apportion blame, prosecute, judge and sentence. I can see the white wash being stirred now.

Wouldn't it be nice to see an airline back up its pilots even when they are in PART at fault.

[Iago]

Disgraceful the way SQ have thrown their crew to the wolves, by blaming the accident on 'pilot error', before an investigation has even begun. Although, 'pilot error' is the blame of choice, to get Airport authorities, Regulators, Airplane builders, and Airline companies off the hook. Much easier to crucify a couple of individuals, than take on the legal might of a corporation.
Having worked through Taipei on a regular basis, I would like to know, since 05R is now shown in Jepps as a taxiway, why does it still have runway markings? Why was there no barricade with red obstruction lighting at November2 to prevent runway misidentification?
Although the crew must shoulder some of the blame, this accident would not have happened if the airport authority had acted more competently.
A friend of mine who works in Taipei, says the word on the street there, is that the crew have now been locked up. Talk about rough justice.

[Goroundflap]

If this is the case it's time to send a clear message to IFALPA. Forget about our petty problems with our management.. this is outrageous and a serious blow to accident investigation and future flight safety. Those pilots must be released immediately, if not an IFALPA black ban on Taipei needs to be urgently considered.

[This message has been edited by Goroundflap (edited 08 November 2000).]