Pilot$ vs Teacher$ $alary

[BUSDRVR]

Did you see in the Rag the SCMP that the average ESF teacher is getting between 50,000 and 80,000 HK$ per month, that includes there 20% gratuity.

Average B Scale FO wages 65,000! you add the 15% provident fund that you must stay with CX 10 years to get the full vesting, and we are no better off.

Now I am not saying teachers are over paid, but the public perception that we are making 3.3 million per year has got to change.

[HotDog]

My last paycheck with ASL in 99 was AUD 7,028/month,year 9 training F/E. I believe it's a little better now but not much. In 99, that equated to 42,000 HKD. Today it is about 29,000 HKD/month. Would be better to teach in school rather than in a 747 classic.

[Wattie]

Mmm; has it occurred to either of you that the SCMP report on ESF teachers' pay is from the same team of scaremongers that are bringing the Cathay dispute to the public attention? From what I read in these forums, not many of the Cathay pilots agree with the SCMP line on the dispute. Would it be sensible to view the ESF report as being similarly distorted in order to sell papers? I would suggest that this is the case - even a quick flick through the said article revealed numerous discrepancies and hearsays-as-facts.

Any real knowledge of the ESF package would reveal that the bulk of the teachers are now well below the salary levels reported in the article. Very much like the A scale v. B scale situation...

[deepee]

...and in all honesty;a well qualified educator with 30 years experience should be on a better 'package' than an FO.

------------------
"I don't suffer from stress.I'm a carrier".

[Screaming Lord]

Deepee,
Not an easy reply,but it's the apples and oranges thing.
30 percent of my course from pilot training are no longer with us (and I mean gone for ever, sad to say) to enjoy the fruits of their chosen profession. YOU fly on my aoroplane because I am still here with the experience and exposure to give you the sefest operation there is going. I respect your profession immensley, but we have taken the risks to get where we have, and lost many friends also trying their best to get here. Sorry, but we all had our choices earlier on in life, and you had yours. Forget the sour grapes, enjoy the life and profession you have chosen.
Happy Christmas, SL

[huntsman]

a pilot controls you for the length of the flight but a good teacher can influence you for the rest of your life

[Flap 5]

A pilot keeps you safe for the duration of your flight and the teacher.... oh dear! The analogy breaks down at this point.

[huntsman]

flap 5,
if you are a pilot then you'd realise that we are primarily in the transport industry.
not the most difficult occupation you'd find.
do you begrudge anyone with formal qualifications to earn good money?
what did you do before you were a pilot?
got any respect for them?

[Healey]

I'm not surprised that cx pilots tend to be disliked after reading some of the self-righteous crap that is put out on these forums! Who cares if a teacher earns 10 times more than I do? Good luck to him/her. Our arguments are with our employer over our contracts. Starting childish arguments about 'my job is more important than your job' is embarrassing to say the least.

[Checkmate]

Healey. Well said old chap.

[fatter bloke]

Just about anybody can become a pilot, its easy just study for a month or so pass the exams and learn to fly. Keep flying for a few years and then apply for bigger aircraft at somestage you will be accepted, presto!!! you are on airline pay. Ok we have to move around etc but i for one did not have the qualifications to get into uni and i am a pilot so lets not slag the other proffesions most of us would not pass the uni course to become a Doctor or lawyer i bet

[thedeadseawasonlysick]

FB,

too much brandy on the Christmas pudding I suspect. Certainly most people can learn to fly - a Cessna 150. But, to equate that to commanding a modern jet airliner, is akin to claiming Brain Surgeon status just because you happen to own a pair of white wellies and a Swiss Army Knife.
Most people who contribute to these forums would make more than adequate lawyers, judging from their ability to argue the finer points. Anyone who can pass the ground school for an ATPL should have no difficulty with a degree course.
The thing that distinguishes a pilot from a teacher is the ability to react correctly and instantly to a dangerous situation. Not something that teachers do a lot of. Having said that, a teacher can and should have an enormous effect on their pupils. Many years ago teachers had much greater status in the community than they do now. They lost that status and the financial rewards that went with it through a combination of factors, not all of their own making. We are on the way towards the same loss of status and reward, unless we make possitive efforts to inform the general public of our side of the story. It may even involve, Heaven forbid, hiring a PR firm. It certainly involves correcting the mishaprehentions, of visitors to the flight deck and anybody else that we talk to, that it is easy and that anyone could do it. A recent survey, in a New Zealand newspaper, put pilots at the top of the list of people they felt they could trust. Lets keep it that way. When Tony Tyler briefs the press, we should refute anything that is incorrect or misleading. Perhaps, at the same time, we should request that he, and the rest of management, stop eating so much beef.

[cheklapsap]

Dead Sea,
I agree with what you say. I think though, you mean 'misconceptions' rather than misapprehensions (and a good dictionary would help)?
Let's all remember however, to be happy for the other person earning whatever money he or she is. A teacher, doctor, street sweeper, who cares what they get. Good luck to them whatever it is.
Look to our own worth and strive to get it from the miserable, money-grabbing mongrels we work for.
And Merry Xmas Tony, I'm still losing sleep over how to spend my 3.3 million!

[thedeadseawasonlysick]

CLS,
I thank-you for your rather condescending correction. However, you appear to be labouring under a misapprehension as to what misapprehension means, i.e. a misunderstanding of the situation, which was precisely what I meant. I would agree, though, that Pprune could do with a spell checker.

[huntsman]

with a good education you wouldn't need a spell checker
watt doo ewe tank?

ps. last years tax return showed my annual income equal to about one month of the above quoted rates
as long as i can pay the bills then i'm happy with my lot

[This message has been edited by huntsman (edited 26 December 2000).]

[Healey]

Obviously not an English teacher!

[deepee]

When you attend your next Parent Teacher evening buy a few more raffle tickets and smile;the cakes have not been selling well.

------------------
"I don't suffer from stress.I'm a carrier".

[man in black]

Leave the poor teachers alone. Like pilots, doctors, social workers, et. al., teachers are grossly underpaid. Consider that a new entrant associate-level investment banker can easliy make upwards of HK$250,000 per month (incl. annual bonus)and more senior people, multiples of this. The SCMP should think about this comparison (or what senior CX corporate staff make) and not that amongst the various members of the working poor!!

[Thrust]

Quite so man in black.

Take note SCMP.

No point in knocking teachers, they deserve what they get. We also deserve a wage that reflects our value.