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micia
25th Jan 2005, 21:03
So, for interiviews, EasyJet gives all applicants a sim on the 737 even for jobs on the A320.
I have just heard of two pilots, one a FO and one CA on the 320 with plenty of hours and though they do not have the exact reason they were not hired, they believe it was due to the sim ride.
Now, I hear of another CA with the same problem.
Yet, there were pilots during these guys interviews that were 737 guys trying to get the 320 job and they got it.
One of the Captains was told by the instructor (that has never flown a bus), that all planes are the same so the boeing should not have been a problem.
Hmmmmm, where did they get this genius?
So now Easy likes 737 pilots to fly their 320 better than pilots that already have lots of hours on the 320.
Pretty weird.

BTW, 737 people stay calm, I am not saying you are bad pilots, but you should get my point.
You all just have the odds in your favor at Easy.


:confused:

Brakes to Park
25th Jan 2005, 21:06
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

scolgan
25th Jan 2005, 21:08
2 right that does sound biast!

ivor tug
25th Jan 2005, 23:03
Just do it and stop complaining:{

Norman Stanley Fletcher
26th Jan 2005, 00:05
Micia - I think that it would not be true to say that easyJet is biased against A320 pilots. There are a number of pilots at easyJet who have only ever flown the Airbus and never flown a 737 (like me!). It is not common practice to do sim rides on an Airbus because it does not lend itself to 'raw data' flying in the way a 737 does - and that applies to many airlines, not just easyJet.

You do not have to spend lots of money on expensive sim time (£400/hr I'm told). Many people use MS Flt Sim with their excellent 737 to 'get their eye in' and have found it to be very beneficial. There are no supermen (or women!) at easyJet but they do expect you to be able to successully demonstrate basic flying aptitude - which is not unreasonable. To that end you must be able to do raw data ILS's and manipulate the needles whilst not losing the plot. The bottom line is you must go in prepared - to turn up at the sim ride not having done some practice of some kind would be very unwise. Best of luck.

micia
26th Jan 2005, 00:32
Silberfuchs, dear you missed the point entirely...........

I am saying that the current pilot on the A320 is the better candidate for the direct entry position than the current 737 pilot is.
Also, it is only natural that the current 737 pilot will be better in the sim than the 320 will be as it is his current plane, duh..................

your boeing instructor is an idiot for his statement not having ever flown a bus.
You can only judge if you have flown both.

And to you and Norman, not every 320 pilot right now has that extra money to go hire a sim, when that sim is suppose to only be to see your learning curve.
You are not going to be a direct entry 737, you are going to be a DE320 like you always have done with no problem.

also, it is very known Easy is not the only one to use a sim different from what the job will be, but not having these same circumstances.
Those 320 guys did a DC9 sim when they became 320 guys.

BTW, you shouldn't feel so threatened by me, I am not a 320 pilot, but want to give a heads up for 320 pilots so they know what they are going up against and let 737 pilots know they have a better chance should any want to apply.

IVOR and SILBERFUCHS...........here is a tissue for you two, you can stop crying now babies.

Airbubba
26th Jan 2005, 00:53
In the wake of an EEOC complaint settlement, United Airlines years ago was forced to go to a general aviation Fresca trainer for interview sim rides since the heavy iron was deemed unfair to those, especially women and minorities, who had no airliner time. Invevitably, military and airline pilots with Boeing type ratings had to rent Fresca time to learn to fly the thing.

Just as the bean counters have taken over operations, long ago the shrinks and H.R. types took control of airline hiring in the U.S.

Feather Boa
26th Jan 2005, 05:19
Micia

Perhaps the people at easyjet didn't like your buddies, type rated or not!!!!!

Just a thought

BEagle
26th Jan 2005, 07:28
If pilot of airline X has a valid type rating for the same aircraft as flown by airline Y, what the hell is the point of bothering with an assessment sim ride on a totally different a/c? Or even on his rated a/c type unless it's to establish whether he's worked to the same SOPs on his previous airline. Isn't that otherwise a total waste of shareholder's cash? Surely the suitability for employment with the new company can be assessed by an interview with the Chief Pilot?

Any reference to the masculine gender contained in the text above applies equally to those of the female or uncertain gender.

Too Low Terrain
26th Jan 2005, 07:29
One should know that thereīs a comprehensive briefing before the actual Simride and believe it or not, the candidates who have never been into a 737 before were briefed into "her" basic characteristics as well.

I agree with the point that arriving there unprepared is the worst thing that may happen. I did 2 hours on "FS2004" before, not kidding, to familiarize with the "basic-T" again and get some practice on manual thrust etc.....:p

After all: I found the 737 very very easy to fly......(never been in one before.....except in the back.....)

And, micia:
I am saying that the current pilot on the A320 is the better candidate for the direct entry position than the current 737 pilot is.

That is bullshit.....:yuk:

Old King Coal
26th Jan 2005, 07:41
I once had a go in a A320 sim..... and talk about it being a 'no-brainer' to operate / fly.

One can certainly see and understand why eJ use the B737 for their assessment process - if one turns off its FlightDirectors and the AutoThrottle then it becomes quite challenging, and its 'power pitch couple' will certainly show-up any latency in instrument scan and / or basic instrument flying.

Shagtastic
26th Jan 2005, 08:15
A320 pilot or not, a lot of very good pilots have been trashed in the CTC easyjet sim ride over the years.

A lucky escape then.

A4
26th Jan 2005, 08:28
I've been through the Easy 737 sim (successfully).

Having only flown the Bus for in excess of 6 years I was apprehensive about the 737-300 sim. Would I scan ok, would I trim ok, pitch/thrust couple, no flight directors, manual thrust, raw data only, no map!!, manually tune AND identify all navaids, would I remember the profiles / speeds, would I say "Flap 1" instead of "Flap 5". Oh the horror of it all.

To fail to prepare is to prepare to fail. Learn the profiles. Learn the power settings. Learn the pitch settings. If you do that and apply it in the sim, believe it or not it actually works. At the very least fly FS2002 to get your scan back on a "T" panel.

But most of all - JUST DO IT. Within a couple of minutes I was trimming just like I always used to. Steep turns. Navigating by needles. Raw procedure.Raw ILS. By the end of it I was actually enjoying it despite so much riding on the outcome!

The comment about a 320 candidate being a better bet than a 737 candidate is rubbish. Just because you have the type on your licence says nothing about your CRM, your situational awareness and most of all your ATTITUDE.

If you go in telling yourself "I can't do this, it's not fair" then the outcome is pretty certain. If you go in there with " this is going to be interesting, but I'll give all I've got" then chances are you'll adjust and probably be ok - provided you don't do anything stupid of course!

To those who have a ride coming up on an unfamiliar type all I say is prepare, prepare,prepare - it will make your life SO much easier.

Good luck to all

A4 :ok:

Basic T
26th Jan 2005, 08:43
I absolutely agree with A4's post!

By the way, having been through the easy-sim check myself a couple years back I did not even have any JET experience.....should I have said that that was unfair? and asked I the chiefpilot would please fly with me in a Cessna 172 to check me out?? :O

...when will be my starting date.....?? :rolleyes:

Stu Bigzorst
26th Jan 2005, 08:53
I'm with A4 here. When I did the sim, I'd only done a few hundred hours on a device with props. I learnt all the SIDs off by heart, all the easyJet SOPs, thought about how it would handle - in particular the pitch and power settings, and how I would fly a level-off. The sim ride was fun, and satisfying because on the last of 3 runs I was flying the thing nicely.

The guy next to me had 3000 hours of jet time. He was given several shots at level-off and straight and level, and (despite all the sweat and red cheeks) just couldn't do it. The good thing about him was that he didn't come out of the sim saying "eJ don't want to hire Falcon rated pilots", he came out saying "well I made a right arse of that - I hope you enjoy the job mate".

Good on him, and I guess he'll have prepared a bit better for his next test.

micia
26th Jan 2005, 09:25
first thing you all got to know is none of the pilots I wrote about are friends of mine. I know who they are and I know what happened to them.

Second, they are not crying, they are not complaining and they (two) admitted and error in the sim.

Third, I did not say 737 pilots could not fly the 320 and not be good.
I said the one with the most experience already is better for the job as he has the experience, hours, and in the company that is so cost hungry, will cost less to train and put back on that plane.
Just as the ton of 320 pilots now going to fly the 737 for another company, doesn't mean they were the best there either.
They will do the job, they will be good, but had there been a current 737 pilot there for the job first, he would have been better as he didn't need all the training the 320 guy does.

Feather: it could very well be, but I doubt you just happened to pick the only 3 dull pilots from the same company or are you going to say the entire company is full of pilots with no personalities? Give me a break, had they all been from different places, could be this reason, had it only been one or two I may have thought the same, but you start going to 3 or more and the pattern looks different.

Ambulance 'Charlie Alpha'
26th Jan 2005, 09:36
Hi all,

I just recently had a sim check on the 757 for my new employer. Never flown a Boeing or anything larger than 34 seats for that matter. They were also recruiting for both Bus and Boeing drivers using the same sim.

Their philosophy is that the Boeing sims are possibly the only time in your career with them if you go the Airbus route, that they can see you demonstrate the pure, raw, basic skills that you possess to aviate, navigate and communicate. They want to see silly things like showing that you can actually trim an aeroplane in response to power-pitch changes, whether you can fly a raw NDB profile with just a needle and no map etc. They want to see whether you're a pilot and not just a systems manager.

They have also turned down a number of pre-rated, "I can fly it already so I have a devine right to that job" pilots. As many have already stated here, it's all about attitude and a desire to show that you have the basic skills we all had when we started out in this crazy little industry.

However, that is just one company out of many. I'm sure that there are many other companies out there that would take direct entry type-rated pilots without such sim checks, just not these ones. If you don't like it....don't go.

ACA

MaximumPete
26th Jan 2005, 09:47
ACA

You've hit the nail on the head.

If you want the job that badly you do your homework and go in prepared. If you don't you will be very quickly found out.

Yes they want to know if you have ALL the basic skills and I don't mean just hand-flying a perfect ILS/NDB.

The other thing that springs to mind is what sort of person are you? The bottom line is that you will have to work as a team with a total stranger in nothing much bigger than a telephone box.

MP;)

Kit d'Rection KG
26th Jan 2005, 09:52
First, no-one seems to have considered that maybe easy can afford 737 sim time for evaluations, whilst the A320 sims are under pressure of time for training and testing, nor that they're probably getting the 737 sim a lot cheaper...

But in reply to the Ambulance, who wrote:

Their philosophy is that the Boeing sims are possibly the only time in your career with them if you go the Airbus route, that they can see you demonstrate the pure, raw, basic skills that you possess to aviate, navigate and communicate. They want to see silly things like showing that you can actually trim an aeroplane in response to power-pitch changes, whether you can fly a raw NDB profile with just a needle and no map etc. They want to see whether you're a pilot and not just a systems manager.

I would wonder whether, to be a good and competent A320 pilot, you need those skills, and indeed, whether, in the course of working as a good and competent A320 pilot, it's possible to retain those skills anyway?

I tend to agree that, if you're hiring experienced bus crews to fly the bus, then it's probably a better thing all round for the sim check to be done on a bus...

Agaricus bisporus
26th Jan 2005, 09:58
"Fail to prepare, prepare to fail".

Hmmm.

Perhaps if these guys had noticed that EJ operates A319s, not 320s then they might just have fared better...?

Max Angle
26th Jan 2005, 10:20
And the end of the day it's their airline and their job, they can go about hiring pilots anyway they please. If they made you fly a hand glider sim. would you be complaining they are biased against power pilots?. It's an assesment of your ability to learn and adapt as much as anything else so a type you are not familiar with is more revealing, if you are familiar with it then more is expected.

micia
26th Jan 2005, 10:27
all well and said is good, and true, but let others know what is going on.
It is Easy that has said they have a high fail rate for DEC , there is no harm to warn people a head of time.

Agaricus: Get real, do you really think they didn't know Easy has 319's.
Who does not?

Many pilots were not aware as well that Easy likes to ask questions during a sim.
So that was a good warning too.

The more you can say to let others know what to expect, the more you can help them be prepaired.

omoko joe
26th Jan 2005, 11:53
I don't know what all the fuss is about. Have a read at the various other posts regarding Easyjet t's and c's and what they're about to do to rostering and perhaps wonder why you wanted to join them in the first place?:hmm:

CaptainProp
26th Jan 2005, 13:11
Micia...You r right in that it's nice to get some info before to prepare yourself...However, ezy actually sends out tons of info to you before you get there...including thrust (epr) settings for various stages/config, flight profiles for t/o and SID.... It's really just to learn the figures, config's, speeds and call outs by heart and just apply them to the SID you'll be given by the instructor... How hard can it be??? If you are not willing/smart enough to do that, then do you really want the job??

CP

Basic T
26th Jan 2005, 13:31
don't know what all the fuss is about. Have a read at the various other posts regarding Easyjet t's and c's and what they're about to do to rostering and perhaps wonder why you wanted to join them in the first place?

Because at the moment besides Ryanair (where the staff doesn't dare to complain!) there is not many airlines that can offer you a high job-securtiy, a good salary, flying on almost brand new a/c (if you're on -700 or Airbus that is) with a variety of bases and minimum overnights....... the reason why so many ex-major long haul carriers pilots have joined ???
Rostering / pay / seniority issues are present in every company and yes BALPA is also always there....

That some of them decide to be voluntarily based at Luton always remains a question.......:confused:

alternatelaw
26th Jan 2005, 15:25
Hi to all,
In my experience of 30 years, one is given a briefing (in EZY case in plenty of time)on the detail and one just dus it right, right!
If not no get jobby.
simple.

Uncle Alt

micia
26th Jan 2005, 15:40
CaptainProp, yes, I have seen what they send you. I kinda think the same thing if you study what they give you, then.......
however, always nice to know what is happening to others as well........

....and to your last question, no, I don't want the job (I already have the best one in the world) but I always want to tell what I think can help someone, when I know others are afraid to say what I do.

trietwentie
26th Jan 2005, 16:13
I was on airbus at time of interview but am flying the 737`s now with EZY.

My advice is :

1)Save your money by using FS or whatever PC flight sim to update your scan instead of renting a simulator (aren`t we paying enough already to become pilots ?). Learn the profiles well so it shows you`re motivated enough to know them perfectly.
2)Do some raw data approaches in your 320 (or whatever you`re flying) right before you do the interview. That keeps your scan up as much as needed for the relatively easy checkride.
3) Don`t listen to those guys saying it is difficult and that there is high failure rate. BULL ! In my group 1 out of 10 failed. And that was because of very bad english knowledge (but he was able to come back 6 months later to retry !)
4) And most of all, the sim check is free, so have fun flying that old thing. It might be your last time !

Viscount Sussex
26th Jan 2005, 16:13
:)
Look Micia obviously for whatever reason easy has rattled your cage. If you donít really want a job there, why donít you just chill out and put your feet up. Youíll get yourself an ulcer otherwise mate. Get a pint of ale and seat yourself by the fire.
I donít work for easy and I have no desire at the moment either. However, the day I want a job there Iíll try to get one and if I canít get one, Iíll try somewhere else. But I see no point in going on.
We were all 18 years old once and tried to sort the world out, but when we grow up we find out that is not always possible.
Come on mate, get that fire going, pour yourself a half and relax.
It's easy.
VS.
:zzz:

Flap 5
26th Jan 2005, 16:52
Not quite sure why the answers here have to have the macho attitude of 'don't complain'. The starter of this thread has a vary valid point. Having got several thousand hours on both the Airbus A320 and the 737 they are chalk and cheese. Of course it is up to easyJet how they select their pilots but many older pilots have the attitude of good pilots are good stick jockeys. That is not true in todays airliners and certainly not true in the A320/319. Cathay Pacific have had a policy of selecting ex Harrier pilots but I can say that they don't always make the best airline pilots!

Of course someone who already has many hours on the airbus can more easily assimilate the easyJet procedures as they have more spare brain power! You can't determine that when you put people in a 737 sim for the purpose of assessing them for the A319!

Viscount Sussex
26th Jan 2005, 19:11
My last one on the this one.

I think that what some people are trying to say in previous posts, is that having type specific experience is not what is all about. It is possibly for the bean counters. But, there are many other factors on pilot selection and a type rating and hours on type, although very important, is not all.

At the end of the day, why wouldn't easy or any other airline for that matter employ these type rated pilots if they thought they were worth employing.

We all have been unsuccessful at some point in time in our careers or indeed in our lifes. But sometimes we have to put it behind us and get on with it. It's not to do with a macho attitude. It's life, and life is not always fair, not by a long way.

The fire is on and I can taste that ale and am off.

VS.
:)

micia
26th Jan 2005, 21:04
Viscount you need to be the one to LOOK and read better why I said I made this post.

I am no where near having my cage rattled, and being that I am sitting on a recliner, my feet are up.
Furthermore, I chill when I want just as you do what you want.
Go have your pint and enjoy, sounds like you really need it more, not me, I don't need it.
Shame so many want to see evil in what I write.
If I were to want a job at a place, I would like to hear everything anyone has to say about it. I could then pick and choose the tips I choose to pay attention to.

Who knows, maybe even some 737 guys that thought they didn't stand a chance at Easy will now try for it, being they said they are only hiring for the bus at the moment.

CaptainProp
27th Jan 2005, 12:09
micia - I never meant that if you, as in you personally, wanted the jobb then how hard could it be.... You were refering to other peoples experience with ezy interviews, right? So, then I thought you would understand that I meant you, as in anybody going for an interview....

CP

SQUAWKIDENT
27th Jan 2005, 14:14
No excuses :O

http://www.precisionmanuals.com/html/73767.htm

RoyHudd
27th Jan 2005, 17:09
Hey folks, ever tried the A320 without A/THR or FD's, Direct Law, hand-flying a raw data NDB? Every bit as tricky as a 737 in the equivalent set-up. I can't comprehend the opinions which claim the A320 is so,so easy. It's not. The same level of scan and handling skills are required on both types.

bouldaman
28th Jan 2005, 15:24
prehaps easyjet want the flexibility of which fleet they want to put direct entry pilots on. also i would think it sensible to put an experienced a320 pilot on the boeing as they would then be bonded.

Oilhead
29th Jan 2005, 21:45
The bus is fun to fly with A/T and F/D off - select ILS raw data - - or try Microsoft Simulator! Both will have you ready for a guppy sim session.

FLYto410
29th Jan 2005, 22:34
I realise the concern between Boeing and Airbus sim checks. Having flown both types I would like to voice my opinion regarding this thread.
Airbus is a lot easier to fly on a normal flying day, WHEN THINGS GO T*TS UP Airbus can become a nightmare, this is why general knowledge of aircraft handling etc. make it important to test prospective emloyees on a conventional aircraft! Try flying the bus with Green and Yellow Hydaulics lost (worse than Boeing by far)!!!! The whole point of a check when joining a company is not how slick you are but how you improve your skills over time!!