Education and working expirience

[viking207]

Hi

I am 36 years old and a low timer, I am educated aircraft mechanic and electronics mechanic, and here is my question.

When the companies evaluate the cv's sent to them, do they prefer people with working experience.

I have sent out a lot of applications(that does not make me special) and i would like to know if my employment history make a positive difference or if the only thing that counts is hours and typeratings

I would like to think that being a licenced mechanic on Lockheed l-100 makes a difference.

Regards

[inverted_happiness]

well.... i think if u could spell the word "experience" right ... u might have a better chance!


GOOD LUCK:ok:

[OBK!]

I like to think that work experience (relevant to aviation) is worth a bit more than education. I'd rather a young applicant have a few years work experience, which includes some life experience, in aviation rather than coming fresh out of college and doing an integrated course...but that's me ;)

What do others think?

Cheers
OBK

[viking207]

inverted_happiness thank you. I am so happy for your reply, because now that I know how to spell experience I feel my pilot and mechanical skills elevated to a higher level and my 747 command(255tt) is just around the corner.

Regards from a wiser Viking:8

[Airist]

Viking, I would love to believe airlines evaluate CVs at all. I get the strong impression "evaluation" takes the form of a lob into the bin. Or, if you're very lucky, a passing glance at the Total Hours. For the rest, we might as well be clones.
Please someone in the know tell me I'm wrong...

[Old Smokey]

viking207,

Keep on, keep on, keep on trying, but I regret to say that there is a little more than cynicism in Airist's response.

In previous decades I've been part of the selection process, along with other professional pilots, in eliminating or evaluating applicants. If the ratio of applicants to positions available is high, there is a large degree of 'culling' based on arbitrary criteria, e.g. age, flying experience, to reduce the numbers to a managable level. The plus side is that operational people can judge fairly well the value of a particular applicant's experience, e.g. low on flying time but high on engineering background, so this guy's good value, let's interview him.

These days, the initial 'culling' process is usually carried out by HR (Human Resources, or perhaps more appropriately Human Remains), who are simple office wallahs who cannot see beyond the standard age/hours etc. ticks in the box, so into the bin you go, and the operational people never hear about you. This is an extreme annoyance to us, as we know that HR is sending us some good people, but a lot of the 'wrong' people, whilst discarding a lot of 'good value' people.

Keep trying with the major operators, but beware that HR will probably zap you before the people who need you ever know about you. Smaller operators with pilot selection still carried out by operational people will probably be your best chance.

Lots of Luck,

Old Smokey

[offspring]

Viking,

Like you I joined aviation late in life, 38 and now 4 years on have 3000tt, 2000 multi command in GA.

I too was an engineer but in construction.

I have found that life experiences have too date been a hinderence to getting into an airline.

The usual line is that it may create a CRM issue when you have a 25 year old captain flying with a 42 year old FO who has a lot more life experiences. These are not my words they are from a recruitment pilot who runs interviews for a regional airline.

After 4 years of trying, 172 applications not a single airline seems to want to take the chance.

GA on the other hand welcomes the more mature individual and I would recommend you build your time to 700hrs (JAR min for single crew IFR) possibly by instructing.

There are of course exceptions to the rule. I just havnt found one.

[Airist]

Offspring, those of us with enough experience to create a perceived possible CRM problem will also have enough maturity to ensure it doesn't happen! I am well aware that when I do finally get into someone's RH seat, I will be flying with captains substantially younger than I am. I have no problem with that at all. It's something you work through very early on, if you come to flying later than most.
It's sad that was said to you; I hope there are still a few pilots among the tiny number involved in recruiting their successors who realise it's rubbish.

[scroggs]

It very much depends on the company. In Virgin, applicants are filtered by both pilots and experienced flight ops personnel, not Human Resources. Obviously, we aren't looking for low-houred pilots, but we do tend to look at an applicant 'in the round'. Experience outside the flight deck may well be useful, and may add to an individual's attraction, but flying experience is by far the most important single criterion.

The fact is that it doesn't matter how good you were as an engineer, salesman, business executive, or anything else; you are applying for a job as a pilot. Piloting is essentially a manual skill that improves only with experience, and isn't significantly improved by other experiences. Equally, as a junior co-pilot you can't influence the company's business except by being at work when you're needed, and flying your roster. You will not have an input into how the company runs its affairs, so any experience you have in that department is fairly irrelevent.

So, I'm sorry, but hours and experience are fundamentally what it's all about, coupled with the ability to give a decent amount of years to the company. On that note, one of the advantages older guys have with commuter and freight airlines is that they're less likely to disappear off to a shiny scheduled airline than the young guy who wants to be a B744 or A380 captain, and so that's where I'd put most of my efforts if I were in that position.

Scroggs

[Airist]

See all that, Scroggs. But if you were running one of said Commuter or Cargo lines, would you opt for the very young lad with no experience of anything but school and flight training, or the former hospital doctor?
I ask because at that level we are, in a sense, in direct competition.

[RichT]

Viking,
I can only tell you of my own experience but hopefully it will serve as some form of inspiration. Started flying at 38 (ppl no intentions of going further). Went on to CPL and instructor rating to teach at weekends (no intentions of going further). Multi, IR, ATPL. Got my first commercial job at 41 years on 737-200. Made redundant 1 year later post 9-11. Went back to old career (software) for a year. At 43 got a job with Ryanair on the 200 and later transferred to the 737-800. I have never paid for a type rating. I know that I have been lucky but make no mistake it wasn’t easy. My family had a very tough time and I needed and got their support throughout. I worked very hard on getting my CV and my whole job seeking strategy right. I would like to fly something big 747/A380 but would be content to see out my career on the 737. If I decide to do long haul I will achieve it. I am not a brash or bigheaded person I just believe in ME.

The CRM thing is bulls**t I fly with many captains in their twenties. I respect them as the commander of the aircraft. They respect me as they do with all fos. The only difference is that on the long flights you have a lot more to talk about than the guys who have only every flown for a living.

My advise to you is. Believe in yourself, get your CV perfect, get as many hours as you can and pursue every opportunity. You must become a salesman of yourself.

[Airist]

RichT, I've read your post, hauled my Optimism down from the attic, dusted it, put in a few screws here and there and lo! it's almost as good as new. I've been following this thread with masochistic interest. I wasn't expecting such a cheering contribution and I'm sure I won't be alone in taking heart from it. Thanks.

[Mouse Organ]

RichT,

I also must show my appreciation for your input. There are simply too many cynics in this place, and it's refreshing to hear from someone who's not found it easy, yet stuck at it. Once I complete my training, I'll be happy to be a thrower if it gets me closer to the industry whilst looking for a pilot position, and I too am in the process of refueling my optimism with 'Liquid Schwartz, (I'm no spring chook either).

MO

[viking207]

Thanks everyone, very nice inputs. :D