EK vs CX

[Bootneck2]

Following on from another thread re. "Command when will I get it" it goes on about Emirates and DXB.
I have friends there and have visited a few times.I thought it might be fitting to put some comparisons down for disgruntled CX pilots looking at other options, and would welcome any comments.

1 Command :At the moment it is on average 2-4 yrs commesurate with previous experience. Even with the coming of 340"s and 380's , and the need for Relief Commanders which naturally slows down command , the head of recruitment does not see it going more than 5 yrs.There is the fast track for previous experience on wide bodies etc.It seems hard to predict the same at CX with the expansion , introduction of 60 yrs as the new retirement age etc.Will the proposed expasion cancel out the increased retirement age ???

2 Standard of Living :)XB social life is great , whether you are single or married although divorce rates are high there , and you would see why if you looked at the EK cc !!! Day to day living is much easier than HK but remember we have the options of a basing worldwide.I am sure once the novelty of DXB has gone , it is just a small oasis in the desert where you are not made particularly welcome by the locals.This is evident when you have your interview that it is made very clear that you are an expendible commodity if you dont tow the line.There will be basings at EK in the future once they go global but not to the scale of CX,I would imagine.Cost of living is cheaper but not by much , but things like cars , boats etc are very cheap (and so is fuel!!!!!)Schooling and medical is also good.

3 Package:Logon to www.emirates.com (http://www.emirates.com) and go to recruitment.
Capt 23000 d / month (~ US$6.5K)
F/O 16000 d / month (~ US$4.5k)
The above is non taxed but even then it is way off what you make at CX.
Accomodation is provided for you , which is state of the art apartments if you are single (sharing the same blocks as the CC !!!)or cluster homes if you have a family.All very nice and big but the operative word is provided.CX give you a housing allowance , which you can use to pay off a mortgage.That is a big perk dont you think.
Provident fund looks simular to CX but you would have to look at it more closly on their website.

4 AoA: Food for thought , EK has a forward looking policy and the CEO seems more on the ball than our pets here , however should he be succeded by a TT,DT or Eddington with the traditional penny wise pound foolish policies at CX , remember you are in the Middle East and there is no protection whatsoever.The AoA has leartnt from its mistakes and is evolving quite nicely.
So at the moment EK jockeys are happy but for how long? Recently management almost succeeded in recruiting direct entry Captains to keep up with expansion.Also they work pretty hard.EK have forward looking policy (expasion , launch customers for 340 5&600 , 380's etc)but they can afford to be as it is a Flag carrier and almost like the sheik's little toy.What happens when he is not around any more?CX is one of the only major carriers fully answerable to its shareholders,hence less gung ho when it comes to major decisions.

Summary : It is 6 of one half a dozen of the other.Financially and flexibility(ie basing , commuting etc)you are better off at CX but Command and day to day living in DXB looks better.

YOUR COMMENTS PLEASE ??????

[Dune]

Hi all. Was cruising the FH very early this a.m. (don't you just love jetlag!) and came across this comparison of CX vs EK. As a pilot currently flying for Emirates I thought I would attempt to shed some light on the package from this end (as unbiased as possible) to help those who may be considering a move to make a more informed decision.

1. Command: As bootneck2 alluded to, it is currently running at around 3 years. There was a short period when commands were occuring at 18-24 months but that has passed.

A recent policy change at EK requires all who get command to have a minumum of 3 years with the company. There is a provision for those with 1000+ PIC on commercial jet aircraft to bypass the seniority list and 3 year requirement should the company need pilots to upgrade short notice and run into the problem of the required 3 year rule. It is hoped this clause will eliminate the requirement for Direct Entry Captains and appears to work in the manpower models and expansion plans so currently DE Captains are out.

The question is how long the 3 years to command flow will remain. Eventually this airline will start to slow its expansion and that, combined with the use of more "efficient crewing" aircraft such as the A380 and A340-500/600 will result in commands occuring much later. I think the "max 5 year" comment may be a little misleading and can see it stretching beyond that in the future so I wouldn't be so sure of a quick command at EK.

2. Standard of Living: DXB is not a bad place to live. The heat in the summer can be unbearable and the standard of driving is at times downright dangerous, but other than that it is nice place for both single and married pilots (air quality OK, great places to eat, drink, beachclubs, etc). The locals generally treat us well (I think better than you are treated in HK) but you never lose the feeling you are here only for a short time and as a guest of the government of Dubai. There are definately 2 standards; one for the nationals and one for the expats and I don't think this will change for many years to come. If you conduct yourself as a guest you will have no problem but those who may have strong feelings on "individual rights" and equality will have a hard time.

As far as basings are concerned, there has never to my knowledge been any plans announced to base crews. That may change as EK goes global (ie to North America) but nothing has been revealed to us.

Cost of living is cheap by HK standards. Medical and most school fees provided by the company and generally of an average-high average standard (not quite as good as the company brags about).

3. Package: The package at EK is over-rated in my opinion. Management state that our pay scales are derived from a "basket of airlines" which they survey and then place us in the middle of. They never have let us know who is in this "basket" so no one knows what comparisons are being made. As stated, the starting salary is approx. $4300 USD/month for a starting F/O and $6200/month for a starting Capt tax free. Wages go up by 3% annually on a fixed pay scale (no adjustment to the scale for the past 3 years). There is no 13 month and the profit sharing is limited (you can probably expect 2-3 weeks/year). I can tell you that the costs in DXB have gone up a lot in the past few years and it is not nearly as easy to save money on F/O pay if you're married with school age children. Those that really watch their money can probably put away about 30-40% in the bank but many put away none.

Included in the "package" is housing, medical and most schooling. The standard of accomodation is generally quite good but as long as you are living in this accomodation you are not building equity as you would if you owned your own place (currently not possible in DXB but is slowly changing with one development allowing expats to buy into on a 99 year lease basis). In this respect CX is a definate winner.

Provident fund is 12% (15% after 10 years)funded by the company, 5% compulsory contributions by the individual. Money is invested with Fidelity and Mercury Asset Management in the Isle of Man. You decide the funds you want to invest in and you live with the results of your decisions (not guaranteed by Emirates).

As you can see, you're probably well ahead living in HK financially. You're not going to get wealthy working for EK.

4. Food for Thought: EK currently does have a very forward looking and fair gentleman at the helm but he is getting on in age. His "heir apparent" is much more along the lines of our current generation of airline executives so things may change drastically in the future.

Unions are non existent in the middle east and that will not change. Those used to working under the umbrella of a union may feel a little naked.

Working conditions are generally very good with an excellent computer based bidding system (5 bid groups; rotate monthly towards the top so each 5 months you'll be on the top and generally have the choice of trips, days off, etc). Average 12-14 days off/month.

Nice a/c, good maintenance, good destinations. Dynamic company.

I think those who may consider leaving CX for EK must do it for the right reasons. It may seem "greener" over here (strange choice of words to come work in the desert) but I would say overall you would be giving up a lot financially for a better lifestyle. Your choice as to which is more important in the long run is of course up to you. I am happy I came here but am a little disappointed in the financial aspects. However, hope springs eternal that there will be a pay review and increase this year and that would certainly be a welcome event.