RT costs

[SHARPPOINT]

A simple quick question.

just got passed my RT test prior to my newly gained CPL.

So I paid £70 to the instructor for the RT test, Having now looked at the piece of paper there is a section for paying the CAA more money.

Am I right in thinking I have to pay them £59 as per in thier scheme of charges to have it issued.

Knowing the CAA I reckon I know what the answer will be but I will not be passing monies to anyone least of all the CAA if I don't have too.

Now for a little rant...

Bugs me a bit too I have to pay for the issue of my CPL £194 when I already paid them £637 for the bloody test. £300 quid to the examiner I know but £337 to the CAA for what? Probably entry onto a database and a fax to the flight school. And then £194 for issue. I'd like to see a cost analysis breakdown for this it would be very interesting to see how they justify the costs. Do I mind YES I work bloody hard for my money a lot harder than the computer clerks at the CAA. Any one from the CAA reading I would just like to give you a two fingered salute. Bunch of thieves.

Thats better, been on my chest for ages that one.

Back to work now and time to save for my IR conversion.

Replys much appreciated

[Keygrip]

Sharp...NO, you don't guess right with the CAA - the R/T licence will be issued free of charge (if supporting a pilots licence - which yours obviously is).

By the way - the maths are wrong - your CPL examiner gets £245, the CAA get the rest.

[Whirlygig]

How about your contribution to CAA safety evenings, maintenance of a website, advice. It's not just for the processing and little plastic wallet.

If it makes you feel any better, I have to pay £231.00 per annum to my illustrious institute for membership. For that, I get nothing other than the privilege of earning my living having passed a few exams. I even have to pay for my annual handbooks on top of that!

If you want to join any professional organisation or institute, these are typical costs.

Cheers

Whirlygig

[SHARPPOINT]

Just like to thank the people who replied to my posting.

Though whirly gig, a couple of points I'd like to pick up on

Well also being a memeber of a proffesional, (engineers cannot spell for toffee), institute the ImechE and having passed some exams I still find thier prices somewhat inflated.

Let me take your points a single issue at a time:

(i) Safety Evenings: Doubltess these will be based upon a procedure produced by the CAA and would in my guestimation, I know not a real word, would give a broad outline of the procedure/specification and any revisions to it. In the real world world a seminar would have be made to pay for itself, a circular produced interested parties contacted see if they wanted to attend and a decision date implemented to see if holding the event could be justified on financial basis. If not the procedure is always available to read for the individual parties or special arrangement for a seminar are made to the interested parties, with those involved meeting the costs naturally.

(ii) Maintenace of a web site. Well having been given the dull job of maintaining a the departmental pages (every one in my department had to take turns in doing so) of an intranet website for an organisation, much to your might be interested to learn I had to liase with the person in control and maintenace of this web site. Shall I tell you the size of their group, well it numbered 1. For a company of 12,000 people I was surprised but their you have it.

(iii) Advice, hah, where you clutching at straws on this one. Ever telephoned the CAA for advice using their advertised/regular channels obviously not or you would not have commited your finger to the appropriate keys those being A-D-V-I-C-E. Shall I just say this about advice, Automated telephone service, and phones that ring for ever when you wish to speak to someone. I always have this image of some dusty empty room with cobwebs everywhere especially all over the phone with it endlessly ringing away.

Just like to add my Professional institute gives me professional indemnity of £Xmillion pounds. If I do something wrong that costs lives or money then my institute will cover me. Not the case in aviation I imagine.

Not that that I mean to berate anyone, but I have definite ideas about people/orginisations paying their way in the world at justifiable cost to their consumers, in a justifiable return for the service provided. How can you justify Peter paying for Paul??

Yes I know this opens another can of worms, with regards the status of the CAA, there can only be one single body governing aviation in a country, should they have been pushed out into a commercial world? How can a single company operate in a single market in a single state, with no competition? Who regulates them? All questions. You could write a book on the subject I am sure.

Again thanks.

[Whirlygig]

I'd just like to point out that the Safety Evenings are free. There are guest speakers and (usually) interesting and important topics. If you haven't been to one - you should.

Secondly, I believe that the CAA has to contribute to the Met Office costs for weather information.

I have used the CAA Medical Division for advice on many occassions (any more I do not wish to discuss) and have found them to be more than helpful.

Maybe I am clutching at straws to negate your argument but it certainly seems

a) in comparison to my Institute, good value for money, and
b) none of these costs should have come as a surprise to you if you have a CPL and did your research. I am surprised that you didn't already know from LASORS (available free of charge on the website) that the RT licence is free with issue of initial licence.

Cheers

Whirlygig

PS - interesting aside - do you HAVE to be a member of the MechEngs to earn a living? 'Cos I HAVE to be a member of the ICAEW to be a practising accountant (or a similarly over-priced Institute). I get no Professional Indemnity insurance; I get nothing!!

[vlad-the-inhaler]

Whirlygig,

Whilst I admire your misplaced loyalty to the CAA, I have to agree with SHARPPOINT, they are without question taking advantage of student pilots. I think you will find that most prof organisations try to encourage new blood by discounted membership and reduced fees. The CAA do not and operate impervious to any criticism of these practices (How much does it really cost to mark a multiple choice ATPL paper?)
The sad fact is they are money grabbing swine and you are fighting a losing battle if you think that you can defend them on the wannabe pages of pprune!

[Whirlygig]

I am not necessarily defending them and certainly know that, as an ex-Civil Service organisation, they will be riddled with inefficiencies, with respect to both costs and "work-ethic"!!

However, compared with my profession, their costs are not over the top and you get more for it! That is my point. When I qualified in 1991 as an ACA, I had to pay £500 for the privilege of joining (I did get the handbooks then but have to buy them each year subsequently; they are not freely available on the net). So I am not sure where you got the idea of professional organisation giving discounts!

Sure, life's a bitch but any wannabe (as I am) should know about the charging structure of licences etc before they get to the point of completing their application. The other point that is being missed here is that you are equating each charge with it's actual cost plus mark-up. It doesn't work like that anymore than your Road Fund Licence pays for the upkeep of roads and your National Insurance Contributions pay for your pension! Yes guys, consider it a tax if you like but there ain't no point in whinging.

Don't forget that, as a commercial pilot, you should get tax relief on the licence application (unless Gordon Brown has changed the rules again to be anti-pilot). Always worth a try; the Inland revenue can only say no.

If you want to whinge, whinge at the Government (or your MP) about the fact that pilot training is no longer tax-deductible - that is the real travesty in cost.

Cheers

Whirlygig

[Meeb]

Sharppoint, maybe you should have done a little research before sounding off...

If you had, you would have found out that the CAA is unique among Aviation Regulators in that it is not funded at all through the treasury, it is a self supporting agency. This all started many years ago and subsequent governments have not seen fit to change it. Airlines complained bitterly that they should not be supporting GA by way of increased fees (which is a bit rich as they must know where their crew comes from), so GA by this virtue also has to be self supporting. Once you understand this, you will realise its not the CAA's fault.

Your outburst of childish behaviour towards the regulator is however more worrying and maybe you should take a long hard look at yourself before entering what is a heavily regulated industry in both personal and professional conduct.

[SHARPPOINT]

Ah Meeb you take a very dimlight of me.

Don't get me wrong there are times to be serious and there are times to be proffessional.

The saying "All work and no play, makes Jack a dull boy" spring in to my mind at this point.

So when did you decide this forum should become a personal forum for slanging individuals off? A simple question I thought with some light fun thrown in and the possibility of throwing some banter around.

Personally I do not care from statements from people who don't know me, trying to attack on my character, personally I find this laughable.

Well don't worry Meeb, I shan't be making any comments on you personally.

Why?

(a) Don't know you well enough so I can't make any justifiable comments.

and be more importantly:

(b) Its not a very civil or polite thing to do, in public or otherwise.

Just to add here I work in the most heavily regulated industry in the world, more so than aviation, the nuclear industry, which I am relatively successful in, but we still manage to raise a smile and criticise the powers that be, whilst remaining professional.

This then begs the question how are organistions to evolve if they are not open to criticism? Answer: They don't. Everyone is critical in every organisation, feedback and criticism are/and should be actively encouraged, they are use tools to an organisation in striving for the pursuit excellence.

I'm sure the same proffesionalism with a good sense of humor is to be found in the arena of aviation too. Maybe you'd like to comment on this Meeb?


To Whirly gig. No you don't have to be a member of the ImechE to earn a living a an mechanical engineer, but it opens up opportunities as you are judjed as a career professional, whose sole aim in life is not just to make money but show professionalism and dedication in the work that you undertake. £500 to join the ACA I can now see your point regards the cost of CPL issue. Thankfully my company pay for the upkeep of my Institute fees.