NO 13th Month!!

[unabungler]

Apparently there will be NO 13th MONTH if the aircrew body causes disruptions to the schedule over Christmas/New Year.

[xcheck]

That's bull****, CX has already announced that 13th month pay will be attached with the December's salary, unless they are going to lie again as they usually do.

To make it clearer, the aircrew does not cause the disruption, it is the palnning department, i.e. management has to hold the responsibility over it. The flights are bound to be disrupted if you don't have enough crew member.

[Old China Driver]

I wish to make one thing perfectly, deliberately and conclusively clear. The management of this airline can continue down this tired road of 'intimidation' and 'manipulation' until the ashes lie around their feet for all I care. They are completely and utterly morally bankrupt. History shows that all regimes that have to revert to an oppressive rule are destined to fail. There are no exceptions. The cracks in the facade are beginning to show, and they are yawning ever wider. More flights are cancelling, more panic is setting in at crew control, and the rats are beginning to run in circles and bite at their own tails. It would be oh so typical of this airline to cancel the 13th month and then attempt to blame that on the pilots. Frankly, I really don't care. It is now apparant (..only the blind can't see this by now...) that the ONLY way for the aircrew to establish a 'balance of terror' with this management is to hurt and embarass them. I will enjoy reading their explanation to the rest of the staff as to why they are not paying 13th month in a year of RECORD profits. That will ensure a smooth operation next year.....! If they try and not pay it to only the pilots, well.....that will ensure that we will increase our co-operation with crew control, won't it? Ladies and Gentlemen, the wolf is in the henhouse....but it is just starting to notice that the hens have very large, sharp teeth.....and they aren't running away. I ask every one of you (including the usual suspects amongst my colleagues in C&T) to take a step back, look at your career and where it is going, look at the people who are managing us, at what they have done to us, and then look at yourselves in the mirror. Resolve NOW to stand up to this tyranny, this malignant and corrupt manifistation of managment, and establish once and for all that we demand RESPECT and a proper career based on proper pay and benefits. INSIST...NOW on a rostering system that provides us with SOME control over our lives. After 15 years, I STILL cannot ensure getting off the day my daughter graduates from Uni.....THAT is a disgrace, and would not happen at a proper airline. It is time we forced this situation to a head. There is no time, or reason to continue to sit by quietly why our careers, our very lives are devalued and squandered by these venal (yes GMA, you DO know what the word means), corrupt and incompetent people. They have NO respect for us, and it is time they were gone. DO NOT fear them, for they ARE NOT WORTHY OF OUR FEAR. OCD

[Four Holer Roller]

Well said as always OCD. The 13th month is a reflection of the company's performance over the last year, so to deny it to all staff as a "Divide and Rule" weapon against the Pilots is so inept as to be laughable.
We do need to stand up to the bullying and lying, and if we stick together we can regain some control over our lives.
Without any further action the wheels are already coming off ..... 255 via ZRH since they could not crew the Bus being but one high profile example.
Nick, we're NOT trying to "screw the company", we just want you for once to honour agreements already made.

Attend the EGM on the 13th, or send your proxy. THIS IS IMPORTANT.

[SuperSandwich]

Not paying the 13 months, thats a disgrace. Talking about fuelling the fire.

And as to the current situation with crewing the flights, well thats obviously not too good either, there have been lots of flights as of late (In which u will all agree) that have left with 2 S/O's etc.... Is this going to continue and become the norm??? What will happen next 3 pilot operation for ULH??

Old China Driver, I hope you will get your day off to see your daughters grad. Unlike our company I KNOW how important it is to have parents at the day of a Graduation.

[Screaming Lord]

Can you believe that the Company line to it’s own staff (let alone the media) is that they have made major concessions to the pilots to avoid any disruptions to the upcoming holiday season. The first one they quote is the re-instatement of normal salary (as opposed to B scale salary) to the 4 sca…..I mean 55 yr old extendees. EXCUSE ME, BUT THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN EXTENDED ON THEIR NORMAL A Scale SALARIES ANYWAY AS OUR/THEIR CONTRACT QUITE PLAINLY STATES.
It is now very obvious that our Manager Flt Crew has told blatant porkie pies to all the other managers, and left the DFO looking pretty stupid.
The point I want to make to everyone is that, if they consider that returning those extendee salaries to A scale as “a major concession” conceded because of the “pressure” to avoid any holiday disruptions, what hope would we have of any advancement of our case had it been a normal month, or we HAD NOT applied any pressure? And this is an issue which should NOT HAVE EVEN BEEN AN ISSUE. Again THEY were testing the edge of the envelope to see what we would take, and now it’s a concession on their part to give it back--- GIVE ME A FU____ING BREAK. Now we are all pissed off big time Nick and I really think you have blown it. You have had your chance, you have the backing from the top, but honesty and integrity is obviously not part of your agenda. We are not militant, as you would have everyone believe, we just want to go to work with a regular contract like all other NORMAL airlines, without all this CRAP. You are threatening the very existence of CATHAY PACIFIC, COMPROMISING FLIGHT SAFETY AND DISREGARDING COMMON SENSE, For what?, a few dollars here, a few cents there, a bonus in the Caymen Islands? Do you have any conscience, we all know your boss does not. For you there is no message now ( you just have to live with yourself). For the 2000 of us we have to be very resolute and stick by one another right now like never before because THEY have shown their true colours and it is not nice.

[fossil fuel]

S.L. I couldn't agree with you more. What a complete joke! I supose hiring enough pilots to crew all our flights would also be a "major concession".
Keep up the good work everyone, this IS the time.

[Turtlenest]

Serious query..I was told Cathay management lacks common management skills because most have never graduated from college and few have any management degrees or advanced management training. Could this possibly be true?

[fookungdo]

Well, the GENERAL MANAGER of Aircrew has a degree in zoology. Yep, he knows about the animal kingdom in general, but absolutely nothing of one select group within that kingdom- HUMANS.

[geh065]

Flights have been leaving with 2 SOs?
That's crazy.

No 13th month would just be fantastic wouldn't it. How is one supposed to pay their tax bill? New joiners like myself already don't get pro-rata profit sharing which is annoying, seeing I was here for almost all of this year...contributing to the profits. No-one seems to care though, as most crew qualify, having been here for a while. Setting up in HK on your own is not particularly easy.

Before I joined, I would have been quite happy to help the company, thinking that helping them would mean helping myself and everyone else, but I realised that it just doesn't work that way. There's no incentive for us to help on our Gs etc..at all, so why bother? We get no acknowledgement for it at all, and get screwed in the process!

[cheklapsap]

Roads, Turna and various "Cathay Managers" (there's that oxymoron again) in conference yesterday afternoon preparing contingency plans against any pilot action. Pity they didn't spend a fraction of that time working with us to solve the problems of this decaying airline, rather than against us?
Rumour also has it that leave over the Xmas and CNY is cancelled for CX City staff.
Seats still available out of HKG for Xmas, but the CNY period has full ships everywhere according to travel agents. Seems like a 'no-brainer' for the timing of any action.
IT'S TIME!

[Thrust]

Things have actually improved on the 13th month front since I joined geh065.... In the olden days no pro-rata 13th month. Tough luck if you joined in Jan like I did! Having said that, overall things have gone down hill badly.

I doubt the company has the balls or stupidity to shaft their most valuable asset over the 13th month (again). Talk about straws that will break camels backs!

Having read the lies and half truths in the SCMP, generated by the CX spokeswomen, I wonder if it is time to publicize our views with a full page notice in the said rag.

I believe it's time this got a little more personal and we let the HK people know what we think of DT, KB and NR. Lets finish their careers like they want to finish ours.

Just a thought.

[had_enough]

Why doesn't the AOA just publish a few sample rosters flown by the aircrew and ask the public if they'd like to be in the back - shouldn't be a problem for CX or the CAD - after all they are "legal"

[satcom]

What a good idea !!!!

[fodder]

Better still. Lets run a competition for the public.
The AOA buys the tickets, and the winners get to fly everywhere with one crewmember for a month. That way they would really get to feel what it's like. Rules of the competition
1 You may not sleep on the flight
2 You must be prepared to return to HK after min rest following a flight to N America or Europe
3 You must realize that when transiting through HK from Bankok on the way to Nagoya you will not have sufficient time to get home and see your family.
4 You must be ready to arrive at the airport 1and a half hours prior to departure
5 You must be prepared to spend only 12 hours at home between patterns this includes travelling time
6 You must be prepared to arrive at the airport thinking that you are going to overnight in Tokyo, only to find that you have been rescheduled to go to Los Angeles and then turn around and fly back on the same aircraft, seems a waste doesn't it?
7 You must be prepared to travel on weekends public holidays Christmas, No we are sorry the family cannot come with you the aircraft is full.
If you are prepared to do that then please enter our little competition. I don't think that you could give first prize away>>

But then heck we do that month in month out

[This message has been edited by fodder (edited 09 December 2000).]

[Grogmonster]

What a bunch of whinging losers!!! You are all getting excited about nothing. You know why there is no 13th month? Cos they are going to pay 2 months extra this year. Got the message from the horses mouth!!!! Or was it the Dragon? Merry Xmas!!!

[CX Driver]

Thank you for your rational contribution grogmonster. You sound very wise. Clearly you must associate with our esteemed leaders. I wish you and your horse a lot of luck.

[Hemlock]

Zoology graduates have very weak nerves. They crave affection from their obedient underlings, and they desperately seek the approval of their superiors. They are feeble creatures. It is surprisingly easy to unnerve them - you just have to have a go. Trust me on this. Rattle the cage.

[Neutral Stability]

Grogmonster, suggest you head back south and stick to discussing the merits of the different beers you find in Oz on the Dunnyunda Forum.