RAAF Roulettes Prang

[Ang737]

Just heard on the Melb news a PC9 went in near Sale. Aparantly on a sortie with the Roulettes. Any News ?

Ang

[200psi]

Ejection after T/O pilot taken to Hospital

[slim]

Mid air collision, one pilot ejected, second aircraft damaged but succesfully landed by pilot.

[ChickenLips]

RAAF PR just announced NO Mid Air. Loud bang then one pilot ejected. PC9 crashed and engulfed.

[Buster Hyman]

By Staff reporters with agencies
January 21, 2005 - 11:34AM

Two RAAF Roulettes aerobatic aircraft collided mid-air over eastern Victoria today.

Both pilots survived, a spokesman for Acting Prime Minister John Anderson said.

The spokesman said one of the pilots ejected to safety as his plane crashed to ground and the second pilot managed to land his aircraft.

A Defence Department spokeswoman confirmed the crash and said they would release further information shortly.

"We are aware of the incident and we are currently seeking confirmation of further details," a spokeswoman said.

Both pilots appear to have escaped serious injury, Mr Anderson's spokesman said.

The plane which crashed to the ground was destroyed but missed all civilian property, the spokesman said.

"I am relieved that both pilots appear to have escaped serious injury and there has been no damage to personal property," Mr Anderson said.

The spokesman said the accident happened during a training flight at the Roulettes' home base in Sale, about 200 kilometres east of Melbourne.

Mr Anderson was being kept informed of the accident and was contacted immediately after the crash by chief of the Defence Force General Peter Cosgrove, the spokesman said.

The Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) elite formation aerobatic display team, The Roulettes, currently fly the two-seat, single-engine Pilatus PC9/A training aircraft.

There are six Roulettes in the team.

The plane is the basic training aircraft for the Australian Defence Force.

A Country Fire Authority spokesman confirmed that they had been notified.

"We've had a truck from Clydebank help out," they said.

The town of Clydebank is close the the RAAF base in East Sale.

RAAF bases typically have a fire service located at the base.

- AAP

[Ace on Base]

There are six Roulettes in the team.

................. Was 6 roulettes in the team!

I would not like to fill out the L 'n' D on this one - at least it wont be "member to pay". bound to be a big internal!

[Woomera]

Lets wait and see what happened when the dust settles a bit.

The only facts so far are:

1. One thankfully "safe" ejection and loss of a hull

2. Another damaged aircraft.

The word "mid air" has been used and it is logical to conclude that the second aircraft was damaged at some time during the accident.

Before, during or after, remains yet to be seen.



From another Woomera who just happens to be in Sale today.

The crash site is a couple of miles from the airport.

While I didn't see the accident (although had I been looking in that direction I would have as we were working only a mile or two from the site) a colleague with me watched the event unfold from immediately after the presumed collision.

Appears that the crashed aircraft was moving forward and down relative to the recovered aircraft and that there was a wingtip to wingtip collision ?

The pilot ejected and the aircraft impacted substantially vertically. The remaining team aircraft returned to the airport. There was the usual post-accident ground and helicopter activity in the vicinity of the crash site.

Subsequent information from a colleague in the RAAF suggests that the pilot is fine other than for the normal post-ejection things.

I thought we agreed that red was going to be MY colour, ahhhhhhhhhhh I don't know that's the last time I drink a gallon of port out of a tea cup with you then:p

Note to all PPRuNers, there are, as you can see, Woomeri everywhere:E do do do do.:ok:

I guess then close formation is not a good place to be when one of them has to bug out.


Indeed, and I solemnly promise to use port as my colour henceforth in deference to your ability to outdrink me when it comes to port out of tea cups - that was a rather fine night, though, was it not ? (Moves to stage left and adjusts colours and dress).

Was it only a gallon ? I thought someone was despatched to buy a second round ?


I got the next round. Hope you don't mind Midori! :}

[Buster Hyman]

normal post-ejection things
You mean like a quick tidy up & cigarette?:E :ugh: :ouch:

[Say Again! ON TOP]

For all those interested:

As reported from "the Age" online news today.

One pilot has been taken to hospital after a mid-air collision involving two RAAF Roulettes aerobatic aircraft.

The incident occured over eastern Victoria around 10.30 EAST this morning during what was believed to have been a training session for an Australia Day display.

Both pilots survived and appeared to have escaped serious injury, a spokesman for Acting Prime Minister John Anderson said.

The spokesman said one of the pilots ejected to safety as his plane crashed to ground and the second pilot managed to land his aircraft.

A spokesman for Victoria's Rural Ambulance Service said the pilot had been taken by road to Sale Hospital with minor injuries.

"We picked up one patient, male, and transported (them) to Sale with minor injuries," a spokeswoman said.

It was unclear if the injured man was one of the pilots.

A Defence Department spokeswoman confirmed the crash, saying one plane had been destroyed when it crashed but that it had missed all civilian property.

Country Fire Authority (CFA) Gippsland regional manager Ian Symons said the crashed plane came down on farm land next to the East Sale RAAF base.

He said at least one CFA crew was at the scene.

"There has been some contact between two planes and one did crash and catch fire," Mr Symons said.

"The pilot of that aircraft ejected safely."

Marge Crank, of Cobains, near Sale, watched as the plane came down on her farm.

"The Roulettes were doing their routine, their practice routine, and one of them just came down in one of the paddocks," Ms Crank told radio station 3AW.

"I heard the bang and saw it crash and just the flames. I haven't got a clue what happened.

"The pilot's okay. I was so glad to see him coming (down with his) parachute.

"He ejected, which is good.

"I ran through the paddock to the pilot and gave him a hug because I was so pleased to see that he was OK."

Ms Crank said the pilot, who came down about 100 metres from the wreckage, apologised to her for crashing.

"(He said) 'I'm sorry, I'm sorry', and he said he was okay."

Mr Anderson said he was relieved both pilots had escaped serious injury.

"The enormously relieving thing is that these people who are obviously valuable in their own right, but who have brought so much pleasure to so many Australians with their spectacular displays, are OK," he told Sky News.

"I hope it (the accident) doesn't delay or impact on their capacity to entertain people for too long," Mr Anderson said.

But he added: "The main thing is that everyone's alive".

Mr Anderson said investigations would determine how the accident occurred.

The accident happened during a training flight at the Roulettes' home base in Sale, about 200 kilometres east of Melbourne.

The Rouletts currently fly the two-seat, single-engine Pilatus PC9/A training aircraft.

There are six Roulettes in the team.

The plane is the basic training aircraft for the Australian Defence Force.

RAAF bases typically have a fire service located at the base.

- with AAP

Can anyone from the East Sale area add to this?

[mr hanky]

ABC midday news quoted the ESL base commander as saying that no other aircraft (other than the one that crashed) was involved.

I suppose the facts will emerge eventually..:rolleyes:

[Obiwan]

According to the Courier-Mail (http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,12006262%255E421,00.html)
the crash involved "dangerous... Air Force stunt planes"

:rolleyes:

[mr hanky]

ABC has a pretty comprehensive report here:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200501/s1286268.htm?fp_news_stor

Nice to see the pilot got a big hug from Marge!

[itchybum]

Shades of another collision, March, 1988:

During display with Channel 10 cameraman in chase aircraft, A7-049 (Roulette 4) reared up and struck the underbelly of A7-054 (Roulette 1). Pilot of 049 ejected. Pilot of 054 (Geoff Trappett) performed gear-up landing at RAAF East Sale. The Roulettes were practising for the Canberra Bicentennial Airshow which was scheduled for Sunday 13th March 1988.

[tinpis]

Its always concerned tin that dero clubs encourage this sort of extremely bloody hazardous flying with no martin baker stuff up option.

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Thought the same thing there Itchy... that particular manoeuvre always looked like a supreme exercise in judgement to me... easy to stuff it up.

[itchybum]

dero clubs encourage this sort of extremely bloody hazardous flying They do? It is?

Hazardous, yes. Extremely? I wouldn't say that. As the RAAF are always keen to point out, the skills applied are the same as taught to all RAAF (and RAN) pilots. "Pretty standard, really..."

I don't know that dero clubs go out of their way to promote it. But at the one club that I know of where form aeros training is available upon request, they seem to apply all the correct training techniques.

[mr hanky]

... this sort of extremely bloody hazardous flying ...

Maybe if it 's going on down at the local aero club (6-ship of Aerobats? :uhoh: ), yes, but otherwise I'd have to disagree. Potentially hazardous - yes; extremely bloody hazardous - no. Otherwise it would've been a lot less than 17 years since the last aircraft loss and 21 years since the last fatality.

Like most things in aviation, this sort of flying is not inherently dangerous, merely potentially so. There are just more risks that have to be managed and smaller margins for error.

[tinpis]

No martin baker tho eh?

[itchybum]

No martin baker tho eh? That's right..... They have to ride it down like a man!!

[victor two]

Having seen both the Roulettes and the US navy Blue angels perform I have to say that the danger money must go to the Americans. Inverted cross overs and every conceivable sort of in formation rolling at ultra low level in their hornets. It is impossible to not be thrilled by their show.

The roulettes are nice to watch but seem to stick to fairly tame formation flying by comparison. Exciting is not what I would call it myself. Pop off anytime and grab a coke and a burger and catch the same formation five minutes later. Hmmmm.

Still, glad they are all safe.

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

You make the Roulettes a full time team and give them a bunch of Hawks to play with and I am sure they could match it with the best.

Comparing the two teams is chalk and cheese really.

[Lasiorhinus]

Glad to hear all involved are OK.

More recent news stories go into more detail- the fellow recovered by ambulance was the pilot of Roulette Five - the crashed aircraft. ABC news on the radio confirmed he was OK but has a sore back.

If the paddock they crashed into was at Cobains, that's practically across the road from the base. Seems the other aircraft involved was able to make it back to the runway and land safely.

[Desert Flower]

While the PC9's are nice, they don't have quite the same appeal as the Macchis did. But it's nice to see that there was a happy outcome on this one!

DF.

[Ultralights]

just saw the video of the accident on ABC news.

During display with Channel 10 cameraman in chase aircraft, A7-049 (Roulette 4) reared up and struck the underbelly of A7-054 (Roulette 1). Pilot of 049 ejected. Pilot of 054 (Geoff Trappett) performed gear-up landing at RAAF East Sale. The Roulettes were practising for the Canberra Bicentennial Airshow which was scheduled for Sunday 13th March 1988.

this is spot on! funny footage (if anything about this can be funny) was the pilots ejector seat lying in a paddock surrounded by sheep!

[winchop]

Again the media don't tell the proper story!

Info is pretty much correct except for the quote from the RAV spokesperson!

The ejected pilot was picked up by the base SAR helicopter which landed in the paddock next to the pilot as the first crash truck arrived. He was then flown to the local hospital where the S-76 SAR helicopter landed on a nearby cricket ground due to the hospital's helipad being rebuilt. The pilot was THEN transferred to a civilian ambulance for the very short trip a few hundred metres up the road.

ABC news tonight showed the actual footage of the collision, the two aircraft spinning out of control and one of the pilots ejecting and landing safely. Footage must have come from the RAAF itself as they film each display practice for debrief purposes. Watch out for it's appearance on the internet no doubt! Although i'm surprised it was released before the investigation.

Lasiorhinus,

Yes, it was less than one km north of Cobains Rd, so very close to the base perimeter fence.

Best news is the pilot is okay and was released from hospital a short time ago:ok:

[blueloo]

Video link here:

ABC Australia (http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200501/r39018_98259.asx)

[SLFguy]

Again the media don't tell the proper story!

You are F@CKING joking! More journo bashing on here than you can shake a stick at.

It was GREAT repoting - not sensationalist & it was factual.

You are an idiot!

I also have to say having watched it over 50 times that there appears to be more than one collision.

[Chippie Chappie]

Interesting to hear that they other aircraft performed a gear-up landing. I was remember being told (by a RAAF pilot) that two pilots were killed in a PC-9 while landing gear-up several years back. Something to do with the wing spar failing and the aircraft rolling over. This caused a change in policy, prohibiting gear-up landings in PC-9s. Any RAAFies care to comment?

Cheers,

Chips

[Obiwan]

Chips,
Don't think it was one of ours. Check http://www.adf-serials.com/3a23.shtml

One was lost after CFIT, the other when a Kiwi exchange pilot shut down the engine in the circuit....

[Pimp Daddy]

the other when a Kiwi exchange pilot shut down the engine in the circuit....

There was (is) debate whether the shutdown was from the exchange pilot or the Kiwi Group Captain along for the ride.

Said Gp Capt later achieved infamy thru his $600,000 renovation of the Ohakea Base Commnder's residence.

[FlexibleResponse]

I liked the bit where the bailout pilot got a big hug from the farmer's wife!

[winchop]

Idiot?..Idiot?...what the...?

quote:

It was GREAT repoting - not sensationalist & it was factual

It wasn't factual YOU idiot! How do you know it was factual, because you read it on the internet?

So you reading the story in the UK on the internet makes you the facts expert, but IDIOT me standing out front of the SAR flight watching the action happen and talking with the SAR crew AFTER they'd flown him to hospital, doesn't know what he's talking about!!

Sensitive petal aren't you? No, I wasn't "journo bashing", I was replying to the original post as requested to give a FACTUAL eyewitness insight into one part of the incident. That being the SAR helos part in the rescue.

My remark about the media comes from frustration from 12 years of SAR/EMS and reading stories of incidents I have personal knowledge or involvement in and seeing factual errors. Makes me wonder about all the other non SAR related stories out there which I don't know about and their accuracy....

[itchybum]

The "score" was settled a while later when a RAAF exchange pilot stepped out of a kiwi Blunty after spinning it with too bang-water in the tips or not enough or something like that.

At least that's what the 'shaggers tried to pin on him at the time.

Conveniently the aircraft was destroyed and the fuel state could not be verified!!!


Just can't picture a low-wing type like the Cropduster rolling over on the ground when the spar broke upon a gear-up landing. Are you sure you're not confusing it with a Macchi which had a wing-spar fail in-flight?

[Wine Glass]

From the ABC website:

Roulettes crash in mid-air


The Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) has confirmed two of its aerobatics team, the Roulettes, were involved in a mid-air collision near Sale in Victoria's east this morning.

The pilot of one of the planes, Flight Lieutenant Mark Ellis, was able to land it safely, while the other pilot, Flight Lieutenant Arnie Moorscheck, ejected and parachuted to safety before his plane crashed.

The two planes crashed while the Roulettes were practising flying in formation a few kilometres from the East Sale RAAF base.

Flight Lieutenant Moorscheck has been flown to hospital with minor injuries.

The RAAF's commanding officer at the Air Training Wing at East Sale, Pete Norford, says the two Roulettes collided while rejoining formation just after 10:00am AEDT.

"The other one recovered quite fine [but] one aircraft was basically out of control," he said.

Investigation

The head of the Air Force, Air Marshall Angus Houston, has announced an investigation into the mid-air collision.

He has praised the pilots and those who responded to the incident.

"We recovered the ejected pilot very quickly by helicopter, got him to the hospital and all other aspects of emergency recovery were first class," Air Marshall Houston said.

"We're investigating the accident. The directorate of flying safety is doing that for us - they will start the investigation later today."

Air Marshall Houston says the Roulettes have a good track record: "We've been operating for about 15 years with the PC9 in the Roulettes and this is the first time we've lost an aircraft."

Commanding Officer Norford says training sessions are "designed and reviewed very closely for all sorts of issues of safety".

He says the they take place at a reasonably high altitude so "in the event of something going wrong, the pilot has plenty of time to recover the aircraft".

"In this case, the other one recovered quite fine and the pilot ejected well within limits and quite safely," he said.

'I gave him a hug'

Property owner Marj Crank watched as Flight Lieutenant Moorscheck's plane crashed in a cow paddock and exploded into flames.

"It just gets a bit frightening when, if they're coming sort of straight down and it might be just about over your roof, but you never think it's going to happen," she said.

She says it was a huge relief to see the pilot parachuting down while his plane was in flames below.

Ms Crank said that once he landed, "I put my arms around him and gave him a hug."

The Air Force says none of the other Roulettes were damaged.

The Pilatus PC9s based at East Sale are a turbo-prop training aircraft the Air Force uses for exhibitions and aerobatics displays across Australia.

[Chippie Chappie]

Thanks Obiwan. Looks like I either remember incorrectly (most likely) or someone was telling porkie pies. Sure remember the Kiwi punching out down at Albany though. I saw the "cheque" on the wall at 2FTS from the Kiwi's to pay for it. Good one boys :ok:

[Runaway Gun]

There was (is) debate whether the shutdown was from the exchange pilot or the Kiwi Group Captain along for the ride.


Although completely unrelated to this accident, I don't remember there being any contention about the events at Albany.

The Kiwi GPCAPT in the front seat simply pulled the PCL shutoff lever, instead of lowering the flaps. He was unfamiliar with the PC-9, and he described the ejection at No 2 Mess a few weeks later. The same findings were published in the accident report.

[Arm out the window]

According to the report in Wine Glass' post, not only the farmer's wife but Norf also 'gave him a hug'.
Now that would be scary!

[Runaway Gun]

Scarier than a kick up the bum?
Norf's a big guy :p

[Always PLE]

Morning!

Just had a look at the ABC footage on the web. Pretty good. Does anybody know what what point/height Arnie punched out at I can't see it in the footage must be blind?!

Always PLE!

[VH-Cheer Up]

What's a Blunty?

[Pimp Daddy]

What's a Blunty?

A Strikemaster

Although completely unrelated to this accident, I don't remember there being any contention about the events at Albany.

The Kiwi GPCAPT in the front seat simply pulled the PCL shutoff lever, instead of lowering the flaps. He was unfamiliar with the PC-9, and he described the ejection at No 2 Mess a few weeks later. The same findings were published in the accident report.

Badly worded by me sorry. The mention earlier in this thread of it being the "exchange pilot's" fault and on the website linked earlier is incorrect as you point out. The Gp Capt was at fault , not RT.

[donpizmeov]

Sh@t Merv, leave you alone for just a little while and look at the trouble you get into. Great to hear both you and Arnie are fine.
Don
PS. This is a far better story than the one about almost bleeding to death, or the costume at Wagga.

[Captain Sand Dune]

God, the media s#$%s me!!!!:mad:
CH10, not content with the actual video of the prang (all Roulette practices overhead the base are recorded for de-briefing purposes) put in footage of a Macchi prang in 1988. Obviously the real thing needed a bit of spicing up.:hmm:

Downloaded the link to the ABC report provided a few posts ago. According to Ms McDonald the aircraft (that’s “aircraft” – a “plane” is a carpentry tool) is a “Roulette”!

Regarding a previous query re gear up landings, it was never “policy” to prohibit gear up landings. The PC9 check list covers landing with all three wheels up, or partially down.
I (and most others) wouldn’t have a drama with landing with the nosewheel stuck up, but not with a main wheel stuck up. I was not confident that the airframe would retain its’ integrity (ie not fall apart and roll over) following the main wheel up case.
In any case the PC9 (or “Roulette” apparently) has a marvellous ejection seat, and that would be my preferred option in that case.

[Runaway Gun]

Well said Captain.

I'm surprised they didn't use the in-cockpit footage of the pilot 'parachuting' out of his 'Thunderbird' aircraft last year. It was colourful, dramatic, and would spice up the story just a tad !!

Maybe they could cut and paste the Hindenburg Zepellin disaster into the background.

[prospector]

The said Grp Capt must have known that just that experience, breaking an Australian PC-9, followed by the big spend up on the base commanders residence at Ohakea were the things required on his CV to land the boss job at Massey University Aviation Dept.

Prospector

[A/F Armed]

From Channel Nine

RAAF daredevil cheats death in crash
17:34 AEDT Fri Jan 21 2005


An RAAF veteran cheated death when his aircraft crashed in flames after a daring aerobatic manoeuvre went wrong over Victoria.

Flight Lieutenant Roland "Arnie" Morscheck, 37, ejected just 300 metres over a Gippsland farm after his turbo-prop Pilatus PC/9-A collided with a fellow member of the elite Roulettes display team around 10am (AEDT).

Flt Lt Morscheck parachuted to safety in a cow paddock as his plane spiralled into the ground and burst into flames.

He escaped with minor injuries.

Flight Lieutenant Mark Ellis, 33, also escaped serious injury in the collision, landing safely at the nearby East Sale RAAF base.

Flt Lt Morscheck's aircraft - Roulette Five - was part of a formation of four aircraft practising for the 2005 display season.




It had just emerged from a barrel roll when it hit Flt Lt Ellis's Roulette Four and went into an uncontrollable dive.

Marj Crank, 64, was gardening at her house at Cobains when Morscheck's aircraft plummeted to earth nearby.

"All I heard was a bang and one of the Roulettes hit one of the paddocks and it was just a ball of flames," Mrs Crank told AAP.

"I just thought, 'That poor man', and then I saw the parachute.

"I knew he'd ejected and that was great."

Mrs Crank said she drove to a nearby gate and ran to the pilot's aid.

"I just put my arms around the pilot and told him I was glad he was all right."

Mrs Crank said Flt Lt Morscheck apologised to her for crashing.

"(He said) 'I'm sorry, I'm sorry', and he said he was OK."

[Chimbu chuckles]

What a nice lady....bit different from the usual "I thought it was going to hit my house...ban all airforce stunt flyers!!!"

Wonder what he was thinking just before abandoning the aircraft..."I'm alright, I'm alright, I'm alright....:ooh:NO I'm not!!"

:ok:

[Captain Sand Dune]

I guess Arnies' and Mervs' promotion prospects are guaranteed now!:} SQNLDR within 18 months is my bet:p

[Macchi]

Mirv is, without a doubt, the UGLIEST man ever to pull on the powder blue flying suit...!:}

[L G Cooper]

Chippie Chappie, another consideration that hasn't come to light so far regarding the wheels up landing considerations with the PC9, is that the breathable oxygen stowage is located on the floor just aft of the cockpit. It would be a gutsy pilot that would risk rupturing that puppy if they didn't absolutely have to whilst dragging their arse down a thousand feet or so of bitumen.

Besides, Arnie gets a new tie to wear to all those public engagements the Roulettes "have to endure" :{

Arnie a "daredevil"? Driving a Chrysler Voyager, I think not!

Gordo

[ANZAC]

Captain Sand Dune,

I think you'll find Arnie handed back his Half Stripe to have a shot at the Roulette's so now I suppose WGCDR isn't out of the question!! Anyway glad to hear all escaped relatively unscathed! With any luck they'll ground teh PC9 fleet and we will get more CT4 Instructors through CFS to BFTS, Lord knows we need them.

On a side issue I have been reading PPRuNe for many years and I would like to congratulate all for not jumping in and crucifying the guys or the Team. This is a first for this forum I think!

[Captain Sand Dune]

With the hits the PC9 fleet has been taking lately, why not do an "all through" course on the Parrot?!:}
OK............I'll show myself out............

[Pinky the pilot]

A question for someone in the know; are the ejection seats in the PC9 'zero-zero' types?
Just curious.

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[Captain Sand Dune]

Nope - 0/60. IE you can pull the handle at 0FT, wings level with no RoD at a minumum of 60KT and survive. Probably get ~ 1 swing in the 'chute before hitting the ground.

[Sunfish]

Just by coincidence, it was back in the news Blowhard Beazley who forced the PC9 on the RAAF.

As I was told by one of the participants at the meeting, the RAAF wanted the Wamira, then the PC7, then last of all the PC9. They were prepared for a compromise PC7 deal for Bankstown political reasons.

Beazley simply said "you are going to buy the PC9".

Apparently the first cadet pilot to drive one came back white as a sheet, not your average basic trainer, but then it wasn't designed to be was it?

[Obiwan]

Pimp
Thanks for the heads up. The fact that it was a GPCPT makes it even better!

[Captain Sand Dune]

The PC9 purchase was also the work of the then Chief (R.F.), who thought it would make a good replacement for the CT4:eek: . That's why the RAAF PC9s have the PC7 undercarraige - because it was planned to operate them from the unsealed runways at Point Cook.
About that time the Macchi started falling to bits, so change of plan - off they went to Pearce to replace the Macchi.
That's why when Point Cook was shut down and the CT4A's sold for a song, the RAAF used the PC9 for "all through" training.

[L G Cooper]

I can't see your point in relation to this thread though Sunfish? If you want to start a thread devoted to defence acquisition methodology (or a lack thereof) we'd be pushed for space I feel. :hmm:

Gordo

[Obiwan]

Didn't the RAAF trial a few pilot courses as 'all-jet' course on the Macchi? That would be fun as an ab-initio :ok:

[Obiwan]

I seem to remember hearing a figure of $3m back whilst they were being built...

"But I'm paying it off at ten bucks a week. And I wouldn't be doing that if I'd gotten that extra collision coverage. "

[Super Cecil]

Jeff Trappet was mentioned in some of the ealier coverage, a name feom the past. Is he still with the RAAF and does he still have all his toys? :8

[Johhny Utah]

There is a Jeff Trappet at Qantas, ex RAAF - owns a P-51. It sounds as though it must be one & the same...?;)

I wished I'd known about his PC-9 gear up landing - would have made for an interesting story no doubt... Must remeber to ask him next time I see him up the line.

[ndbfinal]

Johnny,

Don't ask him about the PC-9; Trappo's gear up landing was after the Roulette's 1988 mid-air in a Macchi.

[Captain Sand Dune]

The RAAF did do some "all through" courses on the Macchi a long, long time ago. Can't vouch for its success, but it can't have been all that good because they soon went back to the CT4A/MB326H combination that I went through on.

[Going Boeing]

CSD

I think the "all jet" pilots courses were 70 & 71. I believe that they found the MB326H was not suited for the ab-initio phase of training so they reverted to Winjeels (Phases 1 & 2) and Macchis (Phases 1, 2 & 3). The CT4's were first used on 98 course but because of technical problems associated with their introduction the Winjeels were returned to service for approx three more courses - some of those courses were split between the Winjeels and the CT4.

[tsnake]

Johnny Utah,
Trappo was, the last time I heard, sexually advised younger captains at QF and, allegedly, restoring a DC-3 at Toowoomba.

I would happily walk from my present location to Broome in bare feet over broken bottles to watch Jeff put the Mustang through its paces.

And on a brighter note pleased to see that both pilots involved in the accident are back in the air although I, for one, would be having my ribs carefully checked after any hug from Norf!

[Runaway Gun]

There was also at least one 'all through' course back in the Vampire days. That wheel keeps on turning.

I heard AU$ 3.5m, back when they were purchased.

I too am glad to see the lack of unneccessary Roulette Bashing on this thread. The boys do a great job, and work long hours. For no extra pay. 10 outta 10.