View Full Version : Business Logic contradictions
SASless
18th Jan 2005, 14:35
The new A-380 is being advertised to include things like gyms...and other neat pax friendly amenities. On the other part of the world....the American airlines are wanting to charge passengers by the pound and also by the pounds of baggage and carry on items they have.
Seems like a bit of a contradiction here. Do the european airlines get that much a subsidy from their governments or do they know something the American airline managment do not?
Now if I can get a double bed on Virgin....and a shower....at Bristow expense....it is Nigeria for me boyyo!
Simon853
18th Jan 2005, 17:41
And does anyone really think that all that extra room is going to be fitted with gyms, bars, etc., and not crammed full of more cattle-class seating up to the 855(?) pax max?
BTW, not wanting to start an argument, but I thought the European government subsidies which are loans with generous repayment terms, equalled the tax breaks that the US Gov gives Boeing? (At least that's what I read a while back.) If so it's arguable which side of the Atlantic is playing unfairly..
Si
P.S. And I just thought: Imagine how much longer it's going to take boarding and disembarking from one of these, especially if you all have to herd through one exit. And you'll need to be at the gate even earlier to get all those hundreds of passengers all assembled before anyone can even begin boarding.
OFBSLF
18th Jan 2005, 19:31
They said the same thing about the 747, 1011, DC10. Didn't last long. This won't either. They'll be cramming in as many people as can fit, and then some.
Lu Zuckerman
18th Jan 2005, 19:56
I can just visualize it now. The A-380 has finished loading and is being pushed back. The supervising FA goes on the PA system as the aircraft begins to taxi out and says: Welcome aboard Bumdung Airlines A-380 the largest passenger jet in the world. For those of you interested in bowling the alleys are located on deck 7. If you are interested in water sports the pool is located on deck 12. If you are interested in gambling the gaming rooms are located on decks 5 and 6. We have two movie theaters and one theater showing the latest Broadway show. The theaters are located on deck 9.
Our onboard store offering the latest fashions as well as alcohol products and perfumes is located on deck 10. To ease movement around the aircraft we have strategically located escalators.
As the plane nears the takeoff runway the FA tells the passengers to buckle up and the pilots will attempt to get this big Mother :mad: off the ground.
:E :rolleyes: :E
SASless
18th Jan 2005, 20:40
Don't guess it would do to put all the toilets in the rear of the bus.....can you imagine the sound of the trim clacker when the after lunch bunch headed to the bogs?
Lu Zuckerman
18th Jan 2005, 23:27
Did you notice the winglets on the A-380? Boeing designed them on a NASA contract. NASA turned the design over to Airbus at no cost. I believe they were originally used on the A-310 and several subsequent designs. Boeing never used them as to do so they would have to pay NASA a very steep royalty.
:E :E
Rotorbee
19th Jan 2005, 18:51
Sorry Lu, not true:
In 1976 a Douglas DC-10-10 began flight tests with a large winglet tab canted out from the upper surface of the wing tip and a small winglet tab canted outwards from the lower surface of the wing tip. NASA performed the testing in conjunction with commercial airplane manufacturers. The resulting design was similar in appearance to the winglets used by McDonnell Douglas on the MD-11 airliner that first flew in 1990.
No conspiracy of the europeans towards your poor country. Is that a complex or what?
Lu Zuckerman
19th Jan 2005, 19:03
To: Rotorbee
Maybe I should have used the term wing tip device used to minimize drag. What you are describing are winglets which are an extension of the wing. Difference in shape to what is on the A-380 and several other Airbus aircraft.
:E :E
Rotorbee
20th Jan 2005, 08:50
Lu:
What do you mean with wing tip device? That is a more general term for anything fixed to the wingtip. Just to give you a choice, it could be a:
swept wing tip
wing fence
winglet
wing tip sails
wing grid
spiroid
Which one fits for your conspiracy theorie?
By the way, the A310 sports a wing fence.
The BOEING 747-400 has winglets.
Thomas coupling
20th Jan 2005, 11:05
What would you choose:
500 pax the majority economy class, scraping their pennies together to pay £5 for a GandT. Having paid £180 for their seat to NY,
or,
250 pax gambling away £200 and drinking another £50+ after having paid £500+ for their seats. Maths shows the latter hence Richard branston's (pickle) solution....
Doesn't take a genius does it?
I love the opposing ethos though of the 2:
A380. Big plane, scoop up lots of people dump them hub to hub.
Vs:
7E7. Little plane, scoop up less people but get them there faster, bypassing hubs.
The statisticians will be having a field day.
Lu Zuckerman
20th Jan 2005, 15:03
To: Rotorbee
By the way, the A310 sports a wing fence.
You have just answered your own question. The A-380 has the same "wing tip fence" as used on the A-310. It is this little jewel that was designed by Boeing under NASA contract.
:E :E
SASless
20th Jan 2005, 15:06
Lu,
What's your point? So Boeing designed it...with NASA's help or whatever.....does Boeing own it? Does NASA own it? Is it public domain? Did Airbus steal it by means of industrial espionage?
What are you trying to say here?
I always heard that imitation is the ultimate in flattery.
Lu Zuckerman
20th Jan 2005, 18:01
To: SASless
As I had previously stated Boeing designed it under NASA contract. After it was tested by NASA the usage rights were given to the French and everyone else that wanted to use it had to pay a royalty to NASA as they owned the design. Boeing has elected to not use it and went the way of winglets or, whatever they are called.
Question: Why is this on the Rotorheads forum?
Question: Why was NASA so generous to the French and not to the American and Canadian airframe manufacturers? Did someone say politics?
:E :E
...let it go Lu. Let it go.
What are you doing out here in the corridor anyway?
NURSE!
P.S. You won't be seeing any Gyms or standup bars. Just seats, little ones.
Lu,
Like Monica L. would say, size does'nt matter, taste does.
Cheers
Rotorbee
21st Jan 2005, 20:20
Conspiracy everywhere. I am sure that we could prove that the dreaded 72° delta 3 was invented by some bad, bad engineer from santa lucia, sold to the US of A - probably to the CIA - to conquer the world by chopping N registered tailbooms of.
Wing fences are not something new and are used on different airplanes. I don't think they where invented by NASA because there where some aircraft in war II which allready had some sort of tip fences. But that is another story and I stop right here.
Steve76
22nd Jan 2005, 02:15
Big planes = Big accidents. AKA: Titanic.
I think that they have it sooooooo wrong. Anyone who has flown to NZ or Australia from Canada or the UK, knows that SPEED is what we all want.
Bugger sitting in a tincan for a day. Roll on suborbital travel or those neat "beam me up" jobbies on Startrek.
In the 60's we had supersonic flight. It seems we are going backwards.
...I feel the need, the need for speed.
SASless
22nd Jan 2005, 02:39
Can you say mega sardine can? Lordy....850 people all crammed into one huge chunk of aluminium....knees to chest...seat jammed into your face...BA will find a way to put the bogs where you cannot get to them for days....bet you could walk to Sydney trying to find your seat after a visit to the loo....and never find it. Would it be the 348 bus or the 412 bus one would take?