Exodus at FlyBE

[Pin Head]

Just read about it but where are they all moving on to?

[jollypilot]

I may be wrong, but I have heard some are moving to Monarch.

[ATIS]

Just after new year, total number of resignations were 29. I'm sure its still climbing slowly. End of Jan will be interesting to watch, as resignations have to be in b4 the end of month to make a 3 month calendar notice period.

People moving onto Jet2, Monarch, First Choice, GB, Easyjet
I'm sure there are a couple of more out there that I don't know of.

[ehgi r20]

Hi ATIS

Good to see things starting to move for everyone.
Is it true that Flybe prefer new graduates instead of ex FI’s and air taxi guys?


:bored:

[ATIS]

Not at all.

We have people from all walks of life.
True that most new starters are young and just out of flying school. This is because to make life easier Flybe will approach the school and ask them to submit cv's from suitably qualified people.

It seems that Flybe are currently doing the rounds at Cranfield and Oxford. I guess this is to save time.

Things change very fast in the world of aviation. I remember just before finishing my full time training, I attended a "co-pilot" seminar in a London hotel. A group of us pounced on the rep from Flybe, only to be told that they required a minimum of 250hrs. Two months later I'm being interviewed in Exeter with the bog standard 195hrs in my log book.

Give Flybe a polite call, and if you are available at short notice for an interview, tell them that. You have nothing to lose

Good luck guys

[ltn and beyond]

Good airline to start at, great guys on board to work with, but remember, when signing on the dotted you signing away ur rights to stable or social life.....

As quoted by Exeter .. should work in a bank if you want stability!

[Smokie]

Now 35 resignations allegedly and climbing, more waiting in the wings
( pun intended)
Company currently asking crews if they would like to sell back any unwanted Leave days due "Exceptional Roster Turbulence."

Apparently they need approx 90 pilots to meet the Schedules plus the planned expansion, by July.

Looks like a good time for newbys who have been waiting a while for their first break.

Good luck to all who enter. You will work ure bollox off but it will be an excellent apprenticeship.:ok:

MOR,

Every cloud has a silver or indeed a Gold lining.

[wobblyprop]

how many pilots do they have in total? Would training 90 new entrants to flybe stretch their training to the limit.

[er82]

ummm, yes. Whilst they've been interviewing quite a bit recently, and have two courses a month to fill, they can't get the sim slots and can't release the trainers because they're needed to fly the line.....
all a bit of a mess really!

[Flysundone]

Sent a CV in a couple of weeks ago and also e-mailed.

Over 2000 hours including Multi-turbo.

Heard nothing yet.

[Riker]

I presume all newhires will go to the Dash 8-400. Seems like a great aircraft to get experience on. How are newhires adapting to the Q400 with so few hours? Do they like the Q400?

[Go-Around]

Riker,
Not very well. Quite a few problems in the sim. People new to commercial flying who haven't flown for ages struggle in the sim. As would anybody.

[Maude Charlee]

Oh dear. Not what I wanted to hear. Just been offered a sim check with them, which I was slightly dreading, and now I'm having cold sweats!

Is it really that bad? I have an idea what to expect, but just how tough do the guys make it for you above and beyond the procedural stuff?

:\

[ltn and beyond]

Unless your sim check is in Stokholm or toronto which i doubt as sim slots on the Q400 are at at premium then your check ride will not be on the Q400!!!!, more likly it will be in Woodford,manchester in the BAe146 sim which is like a big cessna!!.

[er82]

Yeah MC, don't stress! You will be doing your sim check on the 146. Nothing difficult, most likely a departure, some GH, and an ILS.

In the 'good old days' new starters used to do their initial on the 200/300. Much easier to fly (it all goes so much slower!), and then convert on to the 400 as and when.

New starters have been joining straight onto the 400 for almost a year now, and there don't seem to have been many problems with it.

Good Luck

[beauport potato man]

er82...........

"146 sim..... nothing difficult......."

i'll have you know it's a very complex piece of machinery requiring the honed skills of an experienced pilot

BPM

[Go-Around]

Erm, er82, there have been quite a few sim problems recently and not just with new guys.
Looks like the info doesn't get past 50 South!;)

[er82]

Ah, maybe. But we all know that would be because of certain examiners......not the actual handling of the a/c which is difficult!!

And BPM... good job they've got you to fly it then. Heaven knows how the fleet coped without your skills!

[excrab]

Er 82 (and others),

Lets put this into perspective for all the wannabees reading this who are getting worried about it all.

Most of the problems in the sim of late have been failures in reccurent training, mainly due to the introduction of new SOPs which they hadn't used before. The two Captains who failed were given extra training and passed the second time, the F/O was also given extra training but unfortunately failed the second time for a totally different reason. He has been given further additional training including observing a full initial course prior to more training and another test. Admittedly there may be others but I haven't heard about them.

Both of the examiners concerned are very experienced TREs and the failures were totally justified. For the benefit of those of you hoping to work for flybe I have spoken to pilots who had their initial LSTs with both of these guys, who reported that they couldn't fault the way the tests were conducted - very professional and relaxed and about as stress free as it can ever be.

Just worry about the interview and the sim check (which is on the 146 sim at woodford and totally out of the control of the dash 8 trainers - as has been mentioned Q400 sim slots are like hens teeth at the moment so you won't do an assesment on it). Having got through the selection, from personal experience I know that the dash 8 training department will do it's upmost to pass you - you only have to talk to the TREs and TRIs in the hotel bar in Stockholm to realise that they are there to pass people, with extra sim sessions being rostered if required - and the same applies to line training once you finish the sim.

[offspring]

Applied to Flybe August last year and updated CV regularily but no call yet.

With a full ATPL 3000 TT 2000 me its difficult to understand why not even a interview. Any other relitivley experience drivers feeling the same frustration :ugh:

Anyone know what they are looking for?

[ltn and beyond]

Quote......


Anyone know what they are looking for?


Ans.....Devine intervention !!:D :D

[bleed_air]

had interview at cranfield last wednesday from their mass gathering...got call this week that im in and starting on Monday. Ex cabair 509, instructor and over 1000 hrs. happy days :O

[Smokie]

Resignations are now 39. :eek:

[beauport potato man]

bleed_air

well done dude..... don't put the CV away yet though, as i'd bet my next 10 years salary that you'll stay 12 - 18 months on the dash then when you have the hours you'll leave.

And so the exodus will continue.....

fun in the meantime though

BPM

[bleed_air]

who said anything about the dash ;)

[Crespo]

The same is going on at aer arann over 20 capts have left over the last 5 mths with a load more on the way. we only have 50 capts

monarch / easyjet etc

[FatFlyer]

Same here, over 2000 hrs including 1000 multi-crew commercial turboprop, I would hope to at least be called for interview or tests but have heard nothing.
other similarly experienced colleagues also not heard.
Do Flybe prefer you straight out of School? With a 3 year bond, those of us with more experience would be unlikely to go off to easy if they are worried about that and would also be ready for command quicker.
Anyone know their recruitment methods?

[bleed_air]

well all Flybe have done in the recent weeks is to interview 112 people from Oxford/cabair. I got a call within 5 days offering me the job. Im guessin its handy for them to ask these schools to sort out a pack of people, organize a venue and then all they need to do is wade through the applicants. Flybe also continue to have their sponsorship through CCAT so they are going to keep them sweet. Flybe have often taken low hour/experience onto their fleet, and they wouldnt go there again if they didnt like the product. As for command quicker, their youngest skipper on the 400 is 23. just out of interest how are you going about seeking your jobs? just cv's or are u stalking them too? regards

[FatFlyer]

congrats on getting your first job.
I understood they got annoyed if you stalked them, maybe i should send them a reminder of my interest or perhaps they see those with more experience as likely to be more trouble

[beauport potato man]

bleed_air

i take it from your response that yr gonna be in the unpopular position of going straight onto to B146 to cover the resignations - and the fact that we can't spare anyone off the dash this summer - then you'll go back onto the Dash.

I think this means you have to front some of the bond yourselves initially??

If this company does do that - and gives people 2 types for the price of one - then i expect the remainder of my 146 bond to be wiped.

What price loyalty in this company?

[Leo45]

FatFlyer, I've had, in a recent past, the sobbering impression that the latter applies with them unfortunately..

[bleed_air]

i thought that it would not be going down too well with the other peeps in the company that these 'new boys' are starting on the 146. however look at it from our perspective, they offer a jet to you for little upfront cash..wht would u say? i can assure you that im not gonna be walking around givin it off that im on the 146, why when i know that eventually i will be put onto the dash with much less experience than u have. It just appears that the company is stuck with filling seats and they simply require 146 straight away.

[Go-Around]

And they wonder why people are leaving in droves....:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Chrishammersley]

hi guy's a really interesting thread, just wandering, what is the dash you have been going on about? im just about to start my training at oxford, and all this information is looking good for people like me. thanks for your help, chris

[wobblyprop]

Chris

they're talking about the bombardier dash 8 (http://www.bombardier.com/index.jsp?id=3_0&lang=en&file=/en/3_0/3_1/3_1_2.html)

[excrab]

Bleed_air,

Hopefully those already in the company won't be to harsh on you and your colleagues, after all it is no fault of yours that the airlines management won't listen to those they pay to do the training. They were warned that this crisis was looming last summer and were asked for permission to recruit more trainers on the dash 8 - but this was denied because of cost. Thus they are in a situation now where they cannot even spare trainers from the line to train and are having to farm out training to FSI both for sim and groundschool. However, there is spare capacity in the 146 training department, hence this plan.

However, it might reassure those in the company who feel agrieved about this if you felt able to post some details of the scheme here ie how long you expect to be on the 146 before joining the turboprop fleet, what proportion of your training costs are met by the company, is there any bond etc?

Either way good luck with the course. Despite the inordinate amount of whinging it isn't a bad place to start your career.

[howsurflight]

Does anyone know anything in regards to the recent recruitment from flybe for FO and Captains to be based in Belfast?

[EGAC_Ramper]

Pilots have/or are going from Belfast to the likes of Jet2/Easy etc and with expansion of routes to Aberdeen,Norwich and Liverpool more crews are needed.Just hope its like this next year and maybe give me a chance for a job as being based at BHD would suit me own to the ground!!:D


Regards:ok:

[Maude Charlee]

It is extremely likely that a significant portion of the new hires will be based at BHD, EDI and GLA. Not sure if this is because of a particular pattern of leavers, or if it is an indicator of future plans for expanding the based fleets with the new aircraft deliveries.

[jollypilot]

146 contract;

£5000 payable upfront by trainee
Tempory position on 146 of 3-8 months depending on company requirements
1 months notice when no longer equired on 146
Enter 3 year bond on Dash 8
Only appear on seniority list once transferred onto Dash 8
Once on Dash 8 standard 3 months notice applies

Payed full F/O rates on both aircraft - pay cut as transferred.

Bleed air - see you Monday!

[er82]

Jolly Pilot
Are you sure you're being paid the full jet FO salary?? As far as I'm aware you'll be paid the Dash FO salary - otherwise all hell literally will break loose and there will be no company left for you to join!
Unfortunately you can probably also expect to join at the worst time - when morale is extremely low and practically every crew member is thoroughly pi**ed off with the way things are going.
Keep your head down and certainly don't go making a big thing of being on the jet!

[Ride the Fire]

You know what - I wish people wouldn't be so negative. Why did we invest so much money and put our lives on the line - for the chance to fly airplanes - there is no better job. We are getting paid to do what is basically a hobby - jet salary or dash 8 salary - its money. Pilots are never going to starve. :}

[Riker]

That would be great to get some 146 time if you can. Why not? The aircraft will likely be gone in a few years and at least you would have some experience on it... Sounds like a great deal and I would enjoy it very much.

From what I hear, the Dash 8-400 performs as well if not better than the 146 anyway - you won't notice much difference except for the full glass cockpit vs. the round dials... At least you will have 146 time - that would be great to have...

[er82]

Ride The Fire

No-one has actually suggested that we'll starve.....
The problems unfortunately are due to the fact that FlyBE are in a 'spot of bother' (to put it extremely lightly), and as such as recruiting by the bucket-load at the moment.
Because they can't afford to 'lose' crews to training, the Dash FO's who are due to get onto the jet are being told to stay put, and new-hire guys are going straight on the 146 (apparently for 3-8months but we all know that's a loads of balls and they'll stay on it longer).
So you have the Dash FO's waiting to go on the jet, who are effectively losing 8months of increased salary, and 8months of jet time.
A new hire guy will pay £5000 for a type-rating (probably the cheapest you'll get anywhere), will stay with the company for 8months building jet-time, and then when asked to re-bond and go onto the Dash, 99% will turn it down and leave the company, taking with them their cheap type-rating and jet hours, much to the disgust of those of us who want to get on the jet and stay on it.
And when it finally comes to those of us getting on the jet (who the positions should rightly go to now) - there isn't a chance in hell we'll have a bond for £5000. It'll be back to the £13000 it is at the moment.

Fair???? Fair my ar*e. This is only prompting more crews to look elsewhere for employment after being shafted by the company who they helped drag from the depths by working their backsides off for so long.

[ATIS]

Smokie,

I didn't know of all those resignations. I know people are off to Jet 2/ Monarch/First Choice/GB/Thomas Cook.......Anyone off anywhere else.

[Autobrake]

What are they looking for in terms of experience then?

I have emailed and posted my CV recently, and haven't even received an aknowledgement like they normally send out. Perhaps they're just too busy recruiting!

I'm an instructor with 600TT, maybe they're looking for the magic 1000hrs!

Any thoughts?

[flybe.com]

jollypilot - your initial period on the 146 will NOT be at jet salary levels. This will only occur after you have served your time on the DHC8 and have been selected through seniority to go on whatever jet we have when you reach that point.

Autobrake - get your CV in! For the next couple of years, everyone should ignore comments (even if it's from flybe's Personnel Dept) about flybe NOT recruiting. The fact is we have 20 more DHC8-400s to arrive from our most recent order, and still some left to arrive from our initial order, couple this with the huge amount of resignations recently and it doesn't take a genius to work out that the Company has no choice but to recruit heavily, at all levels of experience.

[Officer Dibbles]

People I know who have secured jobs with Flybe have been under age 30!

[howsurflight]

Officer Dibbles, I agree, this is the information that I am recieving too.


Any recent recruits out there over 30? Does flybe have an age restriction. Or is it fair game for all. Even us older farts.:O

[notac]

Gents, I feel your frustration but please take it out against Flybe and BALPA not the young guys being offered what is a great opportunity, and one that you would have all jumped at in their shoes.

To those of you joining on the 146 you will have a great time, it is a wonderful aircraft and a great bunch of guys to fly with, enjoy and ignore the comments about keeping your heads down.

[howsurflight]

Have no hard feeling towards any of the new recruits, just wondering why only the young guys get an interview invite? Good luck to all. However,are all being included?

[notac]

howsurflight, sorry for the mis-understanding my comments were not aimed at your post but towards several earlier posts by company dash drivers.

[Riker]

Someone above actually asserted that these newbie 146 FOs could conceivably rack up 8 months worth of jet time and then leave for Easy, Jet2, etc. Do you think that could be feasible? Only 6-8 months of 146 time and you would be that marketable? If so, why aren't more current 146 drivers leaving for Easy, GB or First Choice Airbuses?

I would think the Q400 would be well respected too given its glass cockpit and advanced flight characteristics...

What's the status on 737s for Flybe? I know Astraeus will be providing outsourced 737s for awhile. If that is successful, how soon could you see Flybe 737s on the property? Wouldn't 737s on the property be potentially worth waiting for if you like the company?

[beauport potato man]

Riker....

i was suggesting that those joining from instructing backgrounds, and therefore already have the best part of 1000 hrs (bleed_air for example) could EASILY, in less than 8 months, add the precious "500 jet time" to their total and therefore join..... for example...... Easy as an SFO.

Remember Easy have taken ALOT of people from Flybe already with LESS than 1000 hours..... so when you say "will they be marketable after 8 months on the jet" i would say hell yeah!!!!

Given the choice what would you do? they will easily get 500 hours for their 5 grand this summer - what does that work out at? 10 pounds an hour for their jet time? Against hour building at 100/hr on a warrior? And walk out with a rating AND jet time?

Marketable?.... Yes.

Will they stay and move to the dash?.... No.

Might be proved wrong, but surely these guys are career driven people and wouldn't pass up the opportunity of gaining more jet time (over Q400 time) with someone like Easy?

I've nothing against them doing just that - it's the mess the company has got itself into again that bothers me... and how they continually abuse the loyaly of their existing staff.

Getting off the box now, gotta go to work!!

BPM

[flybe.com]

notac
my comments were not aimed at your post but towards several earlier posts by company dash drivers.
Steady on old chap, er82 made a single remark and you've branded her as bitter and twisted! Poor gal, I'm sure she was simply offering some friendly advice based on what happened the last time we took on low-houred 'contract' pilots.

I'm sure that our colleagues on the DHC8 that will be directly affected by this know very well where to point the finger, and it won't be at the new guys!

[FatFlyer]

question for flybe.com, I assume by your name that you must work for flybe, do you know if they have an age restriction which might be why us experienced turboprop chaps who are getting on a bit don't hear anything?
I, and some of my colleagues who have applied would be quite happy to stay on the DHC8 and not go off to easy etc.

[Megaton]

They have no problem with older pilots. I'm low-houred and was taken on last year at the age of 37. Another pilot even older than me started just after Christmas with minimal hours. I think they're snowed under with CVs at the moment so it will, unfortunately, be a bit of a lottery.

[howsurflight]

Thank-you for your input, this gives us older pilots something to hold on to. We just want as fair a chance, of even being invited to an interview as anyone else. One question remaining, how come someone of your around your age with 1000, 2000, 3000, and even 4000+ hours are being kicked to the curb?:confused:

[er82]

Flybe.com
I am on the Dash! And I'm afraid I'd be one of those of the prettier gender!
Certainly wasn't suggesting that any new guys would be on the receiving end of abuse from us! We all know this is totally down to the management not being able organise a pi**-up in a brewery. Our grievances lie totally with them.
All I will say, is that just like any newcomer to any airline, it's best not to arrive with some big chip on your shoulder - especially joining flybe as a new 146 driver! It certainly won't help matters when temperatures are already rising quite rapidly in every crewroom!

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately for those in the long queue awaiting recruitment) all this is doing is serving to highlight to us existing lot that hard work, going into discretion, putting up with unstable rosters, lack of a decent pay-rise etc etc is not going to be rewarded. I can forsee the future - and there will be even more resignations coming up!


BPM - couldn't have said it any better myself!

[flybe.com]

er82 - Please accept my apologies, I'll even go back and edit my previous post.:ok:

FatFlyer et al - There is no age limit that I'm aware of, and as Ham Phisted pointed out, older pilots have indeed been taken on recently. However I do know of at least one person, with an impressive CV but low hours (just under 1000) and just over 40, that was told he would be a training risk. Personally, given the right qualities and a solid CV, I would have absolutely no problem hiring those in their late 30s/early 40s, for one thing it would mean greater loyalty.

I'm not in charge of recruitment though, so have absolutely no idea of the 'formula' they use with older pilots, and how they judge someone to be a training risk. Perhaps it's because younger guys, fresh out of CABAIR/Oxford, and willing to do anything for that prized first Commercial job, are easier for our Management to push around!

[er82]

Thanks flybe.com! Won't be too difficult to work out who I am now!
And I'm afraid you're last comment is totally true! When I first joined I kept my head down and accepted what I was told to do... I was quiet and careful of what I said....

NOW, However, is a totally different story as many will testify! You can't shut me up!:E (Although when things are going smoothly it's mainly to do with who's sleeping with who and what happened on the tv last night!).

I am not doubting that this offer is excellent for the new guys. Anyone in their shoes would be happy to accept such a great, and cheap, offer. It's just a shame that us loyal staff are being shafted because the management got it so so so so so so so wrong.

[Jockflyer]

I'd love to know what Flybe are looking for. I had an interview and sim check recently.
Got told yesterday I was unsuccessful with my sim check, which I thought went OK, albeit I lost the glideslope on the ILS at the end.
If they were expecting me to do an IRT standard approach in a 146 which I've never flown before,with no practice, then I'll accept I wasn't good enough.
I'm approaching 34, got 1500hrs (over 1000p1), all of which is public transport, not instructing, 450 turbine, current on EMB110, CMRI and recommended for early command with previous company.
I was told by a few people that unless I really ****** up on the sim, then I should be OK.
SO, With the amount of pilots that the company are looking for, is the management telling me that the guys with zero experience and 250 hrs, really a better bet than me? Maybe they flew a perfect ILS on a 4 engined jet, when the biggest a/c they've flown is a seneca, if so, then I salute them.
When I ask why I'd failed, I got told there was nothing wrong with what I did, I just needed to do more flying!!!!!

If the above starts to sound a little bitter, then its not meant to, but I'm soooo angry and even more amazed!

Good luck to those who got through.

Cheers

JF

[er82]

JF

My commiserations. Personally I can't understand what the management are doing. I know plenty of decent pilots who would fit right in in this company, work hard etc etc. And none of them have even been given an interview.
I have to thank FlyBE for giving me my first job when I was a 200hr-er. Although I've seen lots in the same position as me, I have absolutely no idea why they aren't taking on more experienced guys like yourself.

One can only wonder.....

[er82]

Well here's an update....
New guys in EXT are kicking up a stink because they're not being paid the jet salary..... And some have already adopted a certain 'look at me' attitude within the first few days...

This comes from a Capt who has seen them himself and obviously isn't affected by current situations and therefore not biased like a current FO might be.....

[flybe.com]

Yes, have heard the same story myself today. Strutting around Exeter like mini Tom Cruises!!

er82 - you could be 1 of 2 that come to mind. 1 was at Hammond House recently.

Jockflyer - I checked my PMs today, saw your previous messages, and was wondering how you got on, what a shame. The 146 TRIs & TREs are excellent, so you can be sure that the sim assessment was fair. However, you can never really be sure what's been discussed behind the scenes. The DHC8 training programme at the moment is chocka, so although you're ideally placed to fill a Scottish-based DHC8 slot, it might be the case that they simply can't get you on a course. However, you would hope that if this was the case, the holding pool would be used. As I said in my earlier post, they can get away with messing the inexperienced guys around a lot more easily than someone with your experience, so it might even have been this that led to your rejection. Who ever really knows what criteria our selection and assessment teams are being told to assess by those above?

[howsurflight]

flybe.com, are you, or anyone else on this forum aware if there are any proposed interviews being held in the next month or so. Or have all the positions been filled?;)

[Jockflyer]

Flybe.com - I had an hour or so in the procedural 146 sim with a guy called Stewart Burns, who is apparently the ex flybe fleet manager. The sim was pretty useless for what I wanted it for, since you couldn't hand fly it. Stewart was very good though, and he said that if it was him, based on what he'd seen of me, then he'd give me a job, and that I would have no problems.
It was Eddie Danks who did the sim check a couple of hours later.
After the sim, when saying goodbye, Eddie winked at me, gave me a thumbs up, and said he'd be seeing me again. So you can imagine my surprise when I got bad news.

I am obvioulsy bias, but I cannot believe that anything I did was soooo bad that he thought that I wasn't even worth putting in the holding pool. Also, I had intimated that I would be prepared to move wherever they wanted to base me.

At the end of the day though, Flybe pay the wages and can pick who they like. Just so happens on this occassion they got it wrong (IMHO).

Fortunately, I've had other offers of freelance work, and while not as good as the flybe position, it will at least keep my flying.

Cheers

JF

[headyheights]

I have applied to flybe several times over the last year after sound advice from people who know that they are recruiting. I have evan had some positive letters in return.

Yet I have heard nothing. I now hear that alot of people are getting interviews and sim rides etc.

I understand from flybe sources that FO recruitment will continue through the first part of 2005 yet I am dismayed as I thought I would hear something by now. I'm not gods gift to the airlines but I think I have a pretty respectable CV (1000+hrs, 700hrs multi crew Jet). I'm early 20's and keen, eager and ready to go like the the rest.

Fair play to the guys that have got there so far but I just wonder what the hell are flybe looking for.

Perhaps someone will know if they will continue to recruit FO's over the next couple of months, maybe there is still a chance for myself and the others!

Any news very welcome.

[Sven]

Anybody know about flybe's plans for crewing up the 737s with their own flight crew, or will it be only Astraeus pilots flying these, once they start this summer (and for the foreseeable future)?

I guess that the way things are looking for them right now, they'd struggle to do this anyway!

[flybe.com]

howsurflight - I honestly don't know.

Jockflyer - Have been with flybe since 98 and never heard of Stewart. update = he was with the Company though - thanks BPM Given what you say, I personally don't understand what happened. Who did the rejection letter come from? You could perhaps try writing to Eddie. This is not the first time I've heard of a case where applicants seem to have impressed Eddie, but then get rejected. :confused:

headyheights - Again, yet another puzzling situation, as you can imagine it is impossible to work out what the hell is going on at EXT.

One thing that I'm sure you can all work out for yourselves is that, with these people controlling our careers, it is no big surprise that people are leaving in droves. Why you would want to be a part of this is strange.

Sven - So far, 4 of our senior 146 pilots have gone off to Astreus for training.

[er82]

flybe.com - that last time i was at hammond house was november, so i must be the other one!

[TDK mk2]

I'll add my name to the list,

Over 2000 hours UK airline multi turbine and I can't even get a written response. I rang today and was told my CV will have been 'put on file'.

Like some others here I'm not a spring chicken (35) but not really that bothered about flying shiny jets.

So what's the story? Should I just give up and take the command I've been promised (by Christmas!) with my lot or is there some 'secret entrance' to Flybe??

[bleed_air]

ok peeps, here is an update for you all regarding the direct entry 146 people.

Things slightly changed after the induction week and the contract now stands as:

5k towards rating
We will be bonded as of 31/1/05 for 3 years for 13.5k
we will be on the seniority list as of this date
after 3-8 months we shall then be on the q400
we shall begin as every1 does, on the turboprop salary

as we are SIMPLY KEEPING SEATS WARM for current Senior Dash FO's, they will now be getting back dated JET SALARY.

I hope this clears up the whole issue.Also from the immediate bond it takes away the option of us leaving after 3-8 months of jet time.

However...i'm sure there are still people out there that still dont want to leave the playground....let the bitching continue...

[flybe.com]

bleed_air - might I enquire who your comment above is targeted at?

Some of us are aware that the deal you have been given is not what you originally thought, but it is not your flightdeck colleagues on here whom you should be venting your frustration upon, they didn't dictate the details!

I might add that there are no plans that we are aware of to pay backdated jet salary to those whose seats are being kept warm.

[80ktsboth]

Flybe.com

Our CC's were going to approach the company and recommend the backdated payment. The company doesn't lose out by paying twice and it shows good faith towards those who have temporarily been passed over. Looks like the company have agreed to our CC's requests. Don't think that this update has quite infiltrated the whole network yet!!

[jollypilot]

Apologies to everybody for the earlier post - an admin error was to blame for the inaccurate information regarding pay - flybe have always intended we start on turbo prop salary.

May I follow on from bleed air to put minds at rest. As soon as the new Dash guys are in place to create enough flexibility the senior Dash pilots will be moved onto the 146, according to seniority as per usual. Whenever that happens, their pay will be backdated at full jet salary to this monday - 31/01/05, meaning no financial sacrifice has been made by the delay in getting onto the jet. This delay is only because resignations have meant these people cannot leave the dash fleet just yet as they are required to fly. This is our starting date, and we are only a short term stop gap to ensure that the jet seats stay waiting for you, so that as soon as the senior pilots can be spared from the dash fleet they are theirs.

We are now full flybe empolyees, and as soon as they are ready we will be transferred onto the Dash - no leaving early with jet hours, because as stated we are now bonded from 31/01/05.

Hope that clears up the situation a little, and as it happens my goals are to work towards command on the Dash - not runnning off to another company as soon as I can!

Once again, apologies for my earlier inaccurate post,

JP

[bleed_air]

flybe.com - i appolagise if my last post appeared to be one that was venting..i can assure u that it wasnt, i was more than happy with the first contract offered as i am with this one. I would have sold my gran to work for flybe in any FO position, and my last post was simpy to clear the air with the whole salary/bond etc.

i was just sure that sum1 would poke up and still be wanting to have a scrap about it.

[flybe.com]

bleed_air - understood. No one with any sense will be pointing the finger at you guys.

It would appear that the Company has learnt some lessons from the last time this happened in 98/99, albeit with a little suggestive nudge in the right direction from the BALPA Crew Council. With such an apparently fluid issue, and therefore no communication from HQ to the masses, we have PPRuNe to thank for dissolving any hearsay.

er82 - have you just recently bought a car?

[80ktsboth]

Flybe.com

Were you alluding to the fact that i'm on the CC? Guess again!!

[er82]

bleed-air
As far as your comment : i was just sure that sum1 would poke up and still be wanting to have a scrap about it.

Try and put yourselves in the shoes of those FO's at Flybe, who have remained loyal to the company, worked their butts off for the past couple of years, and in return were told that due to 'circumstances out of our control' new guys were being taken straight onto the jet...although only for 3-8months as necessary.

First of all, there was the issue of the £5000 type-rating. We have all been bonded on the dash, and some who are now already on the jet have had to take out another bond. Before we all 'had a scrap about it', you weren't going to be bonded for £13000. You were going to be given a type-rating, and a whole summer's jet-hours (which out of SOU and EXT will rack up quickly) for the comparatively measly sum of £5000. Looking at it from our point of view, is that fair???

Secondly, there was the issue that those who are quite rightly next in line for the jet, would be missing out on the increased jet-salary pay. Some FO's have been with the company 3years, and were expecting to be on the jet as of now (especially with all the recent resignations), but instead were told they'd be waiting for at least another 8months. 8months of the increased jet salary is quite a bit - and they'd be missing out on it because of cock-ups made by management. Again, fair????

Sometimes the crew who work endless hours and crappy rosters see things quite clearly, and we are reasonably good at predicting the future. Before you were bonded for 3years, it would have been an almost guaranteed cert that some (please note SOME) of you, would at the end of the 8months turn around and say "thanks very much for the cheapo type-rating and the jet hours, i now have enough hrs to go to the likes of Easy who will pay me twice what you will and I'll get to fly a nice shiny jet, instead of now taking on a bond and reverting back to a turbo-prop". From our point of view - it would have been another kick in the teeth to those who actually want to get on the jet and eventually venture into the LHS.


>>However...i'm sure there are still people out there that still dont want to leave the playground....let the bitching continue..<<
It's not bitching in a playground. It has all been about those FO's who have had to put up with crappy rosters, lack of pay-rises, being pushed to the max etc etc for no reward in return.


jollypilot : unfortunately one particular comment from your post also raises another issue some of us have :
>>we are only a short term stop gap to ensure that the jet seats stay waiting for you, so that as soon as the senior pilots can be spared from the dash fleet they are theirs.<<

Knowing the way in which this company is being run at the moment, there will always be some reason to delay the moment that those senior FO's 'can be spared'!!

flybe.com - I'm afraid so! XXXXX (new car)... What power! And seeing as you now know who I am, perhaps a PM as to who you are - just to level the playing field!
(edited because i realise i was slightly silly and my anonymity has been lost forever!)

[smudge10]

Completed Sim nearly three weeks ago but still not received any official written confirmation of results or intentions.

Have been told that the sim was successful and have been placed in the pool but have no idea of how long for.

They are obviously snowed under and I feel that I would be bugging them if I call.

Is anyone else sat in limbo with no idea of what happens next??

[Dr Pepper670]

whoever's got salary this or salary that, bonding this or bonding that, er82, you must be enjoying your pay somewhat to be able to put down on a Merc SLK 320.....summer's round the corner.....

DrP

[er82]

I certainly enjoy spending my money! whether it's wisely or not is another matter! what i spend my money on though is beside the point...

[bleed_air]

er82- ok ok I think we all know how many of the FO’s feel in the company, and it isn’t surprising,. If your comments are anything to go by then I cant see myself getting a very warm welcome..which is a shame, as up to this point I have been made very welcome by all involved on the induction week.

>>>No one with any sense will be pointing the finger at you guys<<< I just hope that this is the case.
I kinda feel that this whole issue has been exhausted now as what’s happened has happened and the issue is simply down to the company..not us new pilots that have been given the opportunity to begin our careers.

[er82]

hmmmmmm, having read back over all my posts on this topic, I can't find the bit where my comments would in any way suggest you'll not be welcomed....
Please point them out.

I did notice these points I made :

>>Keep your head down and certainly don't go making a big thing of being on the jet!<< (surely that would be a good way for anyone to enter an airline - it's happened far too often that someone arrives with some huge ego. It normally disappears after a week or two though...) (but i can't see how you would interpret that as "we're gonna all be vying for you blood when you get here")

>>Certainly wasn't suggesting that any new guys would be on the receiving end of abuse from us! We all know this is totally down to the management not being able organise a pi**-up in a brewery. Our grievances lie totally with them<<

Again, the fact that i've stated we all know it's the management's fault would point to the fact that we know it's not your fault this 'deal' has happened.....

Unfortunately the whole issue hasn't quite yet been exhausted... there's still the £5000 type-rating thing to sort! Once we all get the same deal though, then it'll be sorted!:E

[jarjam]

The only good thing about this is that I get out of going to the sim for another 2 months while all the new hires are being trained.:O :O
Its a bit of a mess at the moment I worked out that at BHD we are now down to 11 captains when we should have 20!!!
I dont think that its right whats happening to the new guys going onto the 146 but if the company cant get enough people through in time to fill the dash seats how are they going to release more experienced crews to fly the 146??
The way I see it they didn't really have much choice but I agree this sucks big time.
I cant believe for a minute that people just starting there first airline jobs are bitching over not getting the full 146 FO salary the dash FO's salary is'nt bad for a starting wage so be thankfull for what you've got!!!
Before I get linched I know there are many dedicated guys starting the with the company who are thankfull for the opportunity's they have been given but I hope that there arn't too many salary hunters amongst them who wont show the company any loyalty and will jump ship in 18 months leaving us all in the S**te again.
In my opinion flybe need to recruite an equal number of low hours guys to 1000-1500hr experienced people to fill the void for internal promotion. Its ok hiring loads of new FO's but they can't be captains for at least 2 years and thats what we need is potential captains and soon.
I dont understand for the life of me why more guys like JOCK dont get hired with lots of multi/turbine hours who are closer to a command and are more likely to stay put for longer, it seems to me that they address the short term problem but create another one for 2 years in the future.


P.S. If I were you JOCK I would try and get in touch with Eddie as it sounds like a bit if a cock up if what you said is accurate.
My job with flybe nearly fell through due to someone in the office screwing up.

[beauport potato man]

flybe.com

surprised that you've been in the company so long and never heard of Stu Burns.

Not sure where he was based when he retired but was based in JER for a good while as CAPT on 146.

BPM

[Flying Farmer]

er82

please could you check your PM's :ok:

[er82]

pm's checked. nothing there from you!

[jollypilot]

I think it is fair to say that of the 146 guys on the induction week VERY VERY few of us were at all concerned about the salary......

The VAST MAJORITY of us are extremely grateful for this oppurtunity, and willing to work our socks off in return. I can certainly speak for myself, and also once again, for the vast majority when I say our loyalty does lie with flybe.

er82 - I would hope I would have acted properly without getting peoples backs up, but I take on your advise - consider my head well and truly below the parapet!

Hope to see everybody on the line and in the crew room - and as bleed air has said everybody we have come into contact with at flybe has been fantastic - and long may that continue!!

JP

[howsurflight]

jarjam, flybe advertised in the local Belfast paper two weeks ago for FO and Captains. Of-course once again my updated cv was forwarded. (2000 multi hours and over 4000 hours in total). But no word as of yet. However, I am one of the over thirty guys. I can work my ass into the ground as hard as anyone else, but my CV seems to be destined to stay in the file collecting dust.:confused:

[767bill]

Interesting.

1. Why all the resignations?

2. Why don't flybe hire some more mature pilots also - mid 30s- who might be less likely to leave so quickly? Is it a problem having a 25 year old captain and 35 year old FO?? (happens in other industies)

3. Will flybe not soon have a very inexperienced and not highly skilled pool of pilots?

4. What about their promotion rule if once a captain then always a captain, Q800 captain straight-away becoming a B146 captain, someone tried to explain it to me once but I can't really get my head around it...! Sounds a bit precarious?

Regards and all the best

767bill

[flybe.com]

BPM - Just checked my seniority list from April 1999, and Stewart is indeed on it, he joined in 1993. My thanks to you and apologies to Stewart.

80ktsboth - Sorry, read your post wrong.

Jockflyer - I echo jarjam's comments, get in touch with Eddie because this does sound a little odd.

767bill - We have been trying to work out the age thing on here for a while now, and to be honest none of us have any idea why these 'older' guys are not getting a look in. There is certainly nothing in any advertising about the 30 - 40 age bracket, and as we all know, such pilots are likely to offer above average loyalty, and as with howsurflight, are damn near a Command, which is a critical area at the moment as jarjam points out.

Who knows, the selectors may have a plan to get all the low-houred guys in quick and onto the 146, and then feed in a few more experienced types onto the DHC8 as training slots pop up.

er82 - You mentioned in your earlier post that the £5k bond the new guys have is still an issue. I think bleed_air answered this one, he said that the £5k is an upfront payment towards the rating, which is over and above the normal £13.5k bond that they have with effect from 31st Jan 05. Putting 2 & 2 together, this should go towards compensating the guys held back on the DHC8, which sounds a reasonable deal....ish.

[Drew Peacock]

My personal experience suggests that Flybe are doing something to address what is (I guess) a demographic age problem (and the spin-off loyalty issues). I’m 38, with relatively low experience and I’ve been successful in the interview and I was told on completion of the sim ride that I’d passed it, (although that was a week ago and I haven’t received any official notification yet, neither email, snail-mail nor phone – but that’s a separate issue). So attitudes regarding age may be changing.

[Autobrake]

You guys/girls that are getting interviews (other than the Oxford/Cabair etc Graduates), have you had contacts in the company or did you just send a CV in like everyone else?

[MJR]

Its a funny old game, I spoke with Don Darby two months ago and he quite categorically said that if you are over 35 then you do not fit the flybe recruitment criteria, although I have seen evidence recently of people over 40 being offered interviews. Although I can understand to a degree that younger pilots present a lower training risk, is this really advantageous when most of these pilots are destined to move up the ladder in a short time i.e the bonding period. I know of several old git pilots like myself who would be happy to make a long term career out of working for the likes of flybe, but sadly will never be given the chance.

The Dash 8 sucks anyway!

cheers

MJR:ok:

[antipodean]

I have also sent my cv in a few times but have heard nothing back. In my early thirties have around 3000 hrs with 2500 pic all air transport and a good mix including turbine. Would be looking to stick around long term if they gave me the chance.

[er82]

MJR - Bitter?!?!?!

flybe.com - yes, i know the new guys are being bonded for £13000. but look at it this way. tehy will join the company, paying £5000 up-front for a 146 type-rating. They will also start paying off their bond straight away.
In a few months, when they go onto the Dash, the bond (which they have already started paying) will still stand and cover the 'training costs' for the Dash.
In X years when the time finally comes round for them to move back onto the 146, they will not have to start a new bond, but will be given all re-current training as necessary.
So adding up the figures, they'll get 2 type-ratings for £18000.

Now take one of the FO's waiting to get on the jet. Whilst they're waiting, they're still paying off the £13000 bond they have on the dash (or £9000 if they started however long ago before it got changed). When they finally get on the jet, they will then be asked to re-bond for another £13000 to cover the 146 rating.
For someone who was on a £9000 bond - Total = £22000
For someone who was on the £13000 bond - Total = £26000

Big difference in the numbers!

I know of a few, who if given the choice, would pay the £5000 upfront when they finally get on the jet, or indeed take on a bond for just one year at a cost of £5000.

[jollypilot]

er82;

Don't quote me on this as I cannot remember for the life in me where I have seen it, but I was of the opinion that the guys who have finished a bond on the Dash 8 are only subject to a further £5000 bond for conversion onto the 146?

Or am I losing it?

JP

[TDK mk2]

er82:

A bond is a bond as I understand it (and I used to have one) and you do not have to pay unless you leave within the period, and then only the amount outstanding depending on how it was defined. So These folk who have already forked over their 50k on basic training are going to stump up another 5 grand of real money they probably don't have, not bond money which is isn't actually paid out of pocket.

If you can afford to buy an SLK320 on your Q400 salary then £5000 probably wouldn't present too much of a problem but those people aren't ever going to see it again no matter how long they work for FlyBe. In fact many will be paying interest on it for some years to come while your bond grows smaller at no cost to yourself.

And spare a thought for those of us who've been very loyal for 4 years in the right hand seat of a turboprop, earning less than you and can't even get a reply from FlyBe.

Perhaps you could be just a little bit gracious?!

[80ktsboth]

I don't think it's a matter of being gracious. It's how the numbers work.

We all came out with large debts from flight school. The fact is that £5,000 extra is a lot less than a Ryanair bond. Yes i know the 146 is a dying fleet but when people like myself are on a £13,00 jet bond after a £9,000 Dash bond, hearing this setup kinda smarts a little. Should we wish to leave then we will get financially hit for the rest just like the newbies and will have to pay significantly more than the £5,000 plus interest that they will have to find.

Bringing up the cost of er82's car is irrelevant. We are talking about terms and conditions and not how people choose to spend their own money.

All of this has nothing to do with the new guys...it's not their fault ,just our managements. The new guys just have to be aware that its a sore point (and i think they do).



And TDK, if you've spent 4 years in the airline industry then i think you can safely bypass Flybe and get a job on a shiny jet with a better company and salary.

[MJR]

Bitter!, of course I'm bitter!

But not just bitter, old and bitter, even worse. I'll pay any bond you like, but I guess I'm just an aviation prostitute. Given the chance would be nice!

I think I might start an old fATPL union.

cheers and 3 cheers for old people!

MJR

[Dr Pepper670]

Perhaps if Flybe and Oxford's management stopped caressing each other so lovingly for a just a second, your CV's might actually get looked at a bit more often.....

its such love......

DrP

[er82]

TDK mk2 - not that it's any of your business, but I haven't bought my car, I've taken out a loan. It's no different to someone who buys a flat/house and has a mortgage. And seeing as you have absolutely no idea about my financial situation, please don't dare to comment whether I can easily afford £5000 or not.

As 80ktsboth stated, this is not a personal dig at any of the new guys who have been offered a pretty jammy deal. It's about those at FlyBE who have already had to put up with a load of poo, and to whom this deal seems more like a kick in the teeth.

As far as sparing a thought for those of you who have 'spent 4 years in the right hand seat of a turboprop, earning less than you and can't even get a reply from FlyBe' - I completely agree that FlyBE should be taking on more experienced pilots who won't be looking at FlyBE as a stepping stone to bigger and better airlines. But there's nothing I can do about it.

JP - I'm afraid I'll have to correct you! If we all had the deal of paying off a dash bond, and then when converting onto the 146 we only had to bond for £5000, there wouldn't be the 'uproar' there is at the moment! That's what we'd like to see though - a fair deal for all, both old employees and new.

[beauport potato man]

well said er82

a fair deal for all.......... thats not too much to ask for is it?

I've already paid off a dash bond (9,000) and now have a 146 bond. If i chose to leave then in would currently cost me way over 10,000..... so am i bitter about newbies getting it for 5 grand? Damn right...

Why should i be penalised for loyal service?

This is just a further kick in the teeth. But as someone rightly said, it's not the fault of the new starters its the fault of the hopeless management.

Why can't they see that the workforce is shattered by low morale?

BPM

[notac]

Why can't they see that the workforce is shattered by low morale?

Why would they care:

Look at it from the Shareholders / Management position. The flights are still departing on time with bums on the seats and they are paying their workforce a below average wage. As a result they make a larger profit for themselves and the company looks more attractive to future investors.

With new entrants paying towards their type rating and being paid a Dash salary while flying a 146, plus the savings from new f/o's i.e no increments to pay the company are saving a fortune. It is also a fact that new guys will be far more willing to help out by putting up with more roster disturbance and working days off than the more senior guys they replace and therefore can be utilised far more.

They are the clever ones no wonder they couldn't care about morale.

[beauport potato man]

from a company point of view you're absolutely right.

Otherwise that was a really narrow minded reply.

Thanks for the input though.

[767bill]

How much do turbo prop FO s get at Flybe to start, leaving aside the bond? What about those new FOs who start on the 146?

I would just like to know.

(please PM me if you prefer)

Thanks.

[beauport potato man]

767bill check your PMs

[TDK mk2]

Yeah fair enough, er82s financial situation is none of my business and I do understand the concept of being mistreated by management - all too well.

What I don't understand is why it is a 'pretty jammy deal' to have to pay £5000 cash for a rating on a type that will probably have left your fleet by the time they have worked their way through the Q400 and the bond that goes with it. Then if they want to go on the 737s or Airbuses that FlyBe is reputed to be getting they'll have to sign another bond.

I'm not saying what they're doing to you is right (although the backdated salary will surely help) but how can that be described as favourable?

[er82]

Well said BPM!

Notac - as far as flights still departing on time... seems that rostering can't actually cover the March schedule because of lack of crews. Flights will be cancelled. Not too sure the shareholders will appreciate that when the find out the situation could have been resolved a long time ago, with decent rosters and the pay-rises asked for.

As far as it being a 'pretty jammy deal' - well considering that up until now FlyBE were one of the few who offered jobs without cash upfront, and looking at what you'd have to pay to go to Ryan etc etc, I'd say it's not bad. If they do ever replace the 146 with a different type (not including the RJ of which they've just got 6), you can be almost guaranteed that the 146 crew will all refuse as a whole to be re-bonded onto a new type. As it would not be perosnal choice to go on it, and would require a whole fleet change, I'm pretty sure that, like the CRJ lot who came onto the dash (I think.... could be wrong) they wouldn't be bonded....

AS far as the back-dated salary goes.. that's not been guaranteed yet. But don't forget - you are also talking about FO's missing out on those magical jet hours. Worling out of SOU and EXT over the summer - guaranteed a good 400!

[Maude Charlee]

Can't help but feel some people should be careful what they wish for.

Would a JER Q400 FO really be any better off being moved to BHX on the 146 and paying full UK tax, whilst having to fund their own accomodation? Would be surprised if many young FO's owned a pad on JER given the prices down there.

Slightly amusing to an outsider too, to hear Cannel Islands residents whinging about the fairness or otherwise of company recruitment policy, when they themselves have been the beneficiaries of one of the most one-sided biases that exist. Interesting.

;)

[timzsta]

Well they have my CV down at Exeter, and somebody who will recommend me as well. Am ready for an immediate start if they are short for the March roster.....

[80ktsboth]

Maude Charlee...what are you arguing here?...what's your point.....first you say that JER based Q400 FO's are better off in Jersey than the UK on the 146....then you say that they can't afford houses in Jersey!! Your definition of wealth seems inconsistent. If these are the trade-offs then both places are comparable. I mean, i think that i could handle 40% tax on the £1k i earn in the higher tax band.......i could then get on the jet and buy a house!!!!

The Channel Island policy of recruitment has not been created by Flybe but by the Channel Islands governments. If you can attain residency status in Guernsey or Jersey then please join...we'd welcome a lightened workload.

Having issues with the company is therefore an entirely separate issue with no hypocrisy involved on our part......interesting:ok:

[Smokie]

Lets get this perfectly straight.
You can only be bonded ONCE. Otherwise it is prejudicial to natural advancement, promotion or what ever the legal eagles call it.
However, the size and or length of the bond is out of your hands.

There are a few 146 guys now refusing Dash Commands for this very reason.

The CRJ deal was a case in point and certainly not enforcable in employment law. :ok:

[matzpenetration]

To those of you over 30 trying to get an interview, keep perservering. I've no idea what our recruitment policy is but at the moment it seems a bit too heavily weighted towards young low houred Oxford / Cabair graduates. A good airline relies on a balanced mix of ex RAF / instructor / air taxy / low hours cadets etc...

Make sure you write to the acting fleet manager turboprops and the flt ops admin manager as well as Don Darby, who wrote to me a week before I was employed by Flybe to say that they wouldn't be recruiting for 12 months! Following the sad death of George Dunn who was a fan of pilots from all backgrounds we seem to have reverted to the easiest method of recruitment, which is to phone the 2 big training schools and ask for a list of wannabees.

Keep sending the c.v. in. Do it every week if you have to. Good luck.

[flybe.com]

I would second that.:ok:

[ehgi r20]

I have and will continue to do so, 32yr old flight instructor, who lives in hope !!

[Night Freighter]

Who is Fleet Manager on the BAe 146 fleet and acting on dash fleet?? Whats are they like? Also if you are called for interview or sim, who is involved and whats the general process?? Any advice much appreciated.

[Hudson Bay]

Listen up guys!

Flybe need Dash 8 Captains. Stop reading into the situation. If you have public transport time and 3000 hours, get yourself noticed. You will get a job. The problem the company has is the massive expansion they are going through and they can't reply to everyone. They need F/O's aswell but they do prefer those from Cabair because of the deal they have with them.

Don't be concerned at what people say or think and to the conditions the company is offering. We have all been prostitutes to aviation at some point in our lives.

It is a great company to work for and I would recomend it to anybody.

You all have the prospect of flying a shiny modern jet and there are the share options that will be handed out soon. 8% of 400 million pounds is alot of cash!

People will always compare with the likes of Ryan and Easy but let me tell you there is very little difference when you take into account the pension , free travel tickets, christmas bonus, free medical insurance, free legal representation, staff travel consessions (I went to Rio, Club class for £150! and many more places) Something you DON'T get with sleazy or working for Die-ing Ryan. Those tickets are £6000 normally! Then there is loss of licence, extra days holiday each year, annual salary increments. Do you want me to continue? Yes? ok. Meals during duty, as much refreshments as you want, they even supply boot polish!! Free medicals, free uniforms, free phone calls to company, free car parking at base airport, and free envolopes to send in your expenses! Add all that up and I think you will find you are paid a dam site more than most Airlines. BA may be the exception. I could go on.

Flybe is an exciting company to work for, it is dominating the domestic market and has a growing network of european destinations. Join in the party I bet you'll never look back!

[beauport potato man]

Maude Charlee,

that was a slightly ignorant comment regarding the situation here.

Firstly as 80ktsboth points out - this is a rule set by the Jersey States and has been in place for along time. Flybe isn't the only company to comply to it. Also it only gives us the OPPORTUNITY of a job, and no guarantee of it. They don't dish out type ratings and free sim passes on the strength of a Jersey Residency.

And secondly why should we put up and shut up, when as loyal company employees - we see others getting treated more favourably?

You know what this industry is like - getting in through the residency back door - if that's what you want to call it - is just one example of how "unfair" the playing field is.

I have a friend with 2,200 hours on the dash 8, who was turned down for an interview with GB because of his lack of experience. Someone i know not far from here got in with 800 hours on a far more inferior turbo-prop coz daddy knew someone in the company.

That sound fair to you too? No different to the "jersey" situation - and i bet you it happens a hell of a lot more.

Ask yourself how many people here have benefitted from this Jersey "loophole" and how many have usurped the system through mates/daddy's friends etc.

Way more.......

Now THATS interesting.

[er82]

It's always good fun when someone tries to put-down the Channel Islands and claim we get favours.....

Maude Charlee - how we got our job has nothing to do with any of what we've been discussing on here. It comes dow to the fact that WE HAVE ALL WORKED VERY HARD FOR FLYBE AND WANT TO BE TREATED FAIRLY IN RETURN.

Oh, and just to inform you, because you obviously haven't done your homework properly - we had two FO's down here (both left last year of their own free will) who were not Channel Island Residents. They were both from the UK, and 2 or 3 years ago, when there were no locals available for FO positions, they were offered JER as a base.
They worked here, lived here, and enjoyed the lesser tax benefits. And then last year, they decided to leave. And in their places, two locals joined.

So we have not been 'the beneficiaries of one of the most one-sided biases that exist' - we happen to all live here and were available at the right time when Flybe needed to recruit more crew to base here. If we all decided to leave, Flybe would once again recruit 'outsiders' and place them down here. Would they then be exempt from having any moans and groans about the company?!?!

Now THAT's interesting! Response please.....

[ATIS]

BPM,

Regarding you guys being treated favourably, JER and GCI have got the cushiest life in the whole network. Sure some of you guys have to fly 6 sectors between the same destinations day in and day out, but you start and finish at reasonable times.

And perish the thought that one of you guys will be called off standby to operate elewhere, crewing will just have to call out an old and knackered pilot from SOU. :D

[FatFlyer]

Would some of you flybe people suggest names of anyone other than Mr Darby who it might be useful to send a CV to, especially for those slightly older ones with commercial experience.

[Maude Charlee]

Are you sure everybody isn't leaving because their fed up listening to whingers all day?

Moan, moan, moan. I'm so loyal I slag my company off in public. Moan. moan, moan.

:p

[thereceiver2004]

ever heard the old saying

" If you can't do anyone any good, don't do them any harm "

people work hard and are used and abused by all industries throughout the world, so stop moaning, least you enjoy your job more than the guy in McDonalds wishing he could be be abused flying aircraft round all day after spending 50K of borrowed money on training.. I know what i'd rather do..

[80ktsboth]

Maude Charlee,

So that's it is it?......after all that's been said...your only defence is to be offensive.

The last time i checked this was a forum to discuss matters important to every single one of us.

I think that you're accusing us of being whingers after 3 of us called you up in public of inaccurate information. Grow up....this isn't a playground.

WE ARE DAMN LOYAL...we work hard, accept last minute changes with little recompense etc. WE ALSO HAVE OPINIONS......we are not drones.....

There have been very few threads with Flybe employees voicing there opinions over the years and i hadn't posted on pprune until now. However, the situation is coming to a head and we are all entitled to voice our opinions. Why should the company be able to trample over its employees. I have many friends within different airlines and they are all appalled at the way we are treated in Flybe.

The problem is that i love working with the people in Flybe and if they treated people better i'm sure more people would be happy to stay.......me included. I think it's a real shame that they are 'forcing' people to look for other employment.....they are going to continue being a starter airline and will have huge experience problems again in the future.


Oh and Hudson Bay.....have you ever had a christmas bonus from Flybe?.....Ten pound voucher from Marks and Spencer in an envelope with no writing in it!!!!No joke. You are right though.....as a first job you have to be a prostitute....we have to accept what comes to us just so we can get hours. However, the shine soon wears off when you see how loyalty is rewarded and if noone takes a stand then history will repeat itself.

Receiver 2004 noone is arguing with you in how lucky we are to be doing the job we love. I think most have us have worked in crappy jobs in the past ....but do you really believe that current Flybe employees should be fine with the current situation...should we say nothing? Why should we be lapdogs?:sad:

[thereceiver2004]

i have no real idea, apart from what has been written here by a minority, about the working environment of flybe. There is no perfect job and no company will be perfect to everyone, there will always be people unhappy with pay, rostering,holiday,work load etc etc ..
however like ryanair some do take advantage of the goodwill of employees and those desperate to get on and hang on to the first rung of the ladder..

by the way I cannot fin anywhere the min requirements for applying.. ?

[er82]

ATIS

Do you really think that the schedule out of the Channel Islands is our choice? Yes, we start at 0600 and finish at 1200, and start at 1140 and finish at 2100 (on the dash). But the afternoon is a 6 sector day the same as any other base. We have silly turn-round times of 25mins the same as everywhere else.

We've been crying out for new routes to add a little spice to our lives - luckily with NWI, SEN, BRS and NCL coming up we might finally climb out of scheduled bus service mentality we're in.

As far as us being called off standby to operate elsewhere - it does happen! Might not be on the same scale as the mainland crews, because obviously we don't have the ability to hop in a hire car to get to a different base.
HOWEVER, due to the fact that we are slightly over-crewed down here, you'll find that most of us have spent the last 6months continually night-stopping away from base for blocks of 5days at a time.
In fact, One Capt is so fed up of being away from his family every weekend, he's finally doing something about it.....

So yes, getting called off standby to operate from another base might not be as regular an occurence as it is for you lot on the mainland, but I'm guessing we've all night-stopped a lot more than a lot of you! And then it comes to the old argument - would you rather be doing long 6sector days out of your own base, going home to your family and your own bed every night, or do equally long days away from base where all you have to look forward to is an expensive dinner in the hotel restaurant.....

Maude Charlee - As far as us whinging on here - let's face it we're only saying what everyone else thinks. We're just not afraid to hide behind everyone else and are quite happy to put our views forward - which is what this forum is for after all.....

Echoing 80ktsboth - I love working for FlyBE. I go to work every day knowing I'm going to have a good time because I get on so well with all the crews. It's filled with great people. BUT, there is no reason why we should all lie back and be trampled all over. All we'd all like to see is fair treatment to EVERYONE.

[beauport potato man]

will someone turn maude charlee's squawk off?

[Hudson Bay]

80 kts Both

You are obviously a not a Jet Driver! If you were you wouldn't be complaining about the conditions. What is wrong with a £10 M&S voucher?
How much would you be happy with?
If British Airways offered you a position flying a triple 7 for half your salary I think I know what your answer would be. Throw in some roster distruption, a £5 christmas bonus and some unscheduled night stops in Bermuda and I think you might pay them for the priviledge little rich boy.
Now't wrong with flybe. As I said, add up the extras and you'll find your better off than most Airlines, but then again your only flying puddle jumpers!

[80ktsboth]

Oh dear Hudson....wrong....again. I am on the jet fleet.

And the jet drivers are (for the mostpart) unhappy with their terms and conditions....they believe they are worth more. If you think that they're content, then again, you are wrong.(check out the flybe balpa thread)

British Airways aren't offering that so it's a poor parallel.....i mean in the first place are you trying to suggest that the 146 is akin to a 777?

The reason i brought up the Christmas bonus was because YOU used it as a perk in the terms and conditions. I hardly think that the christmas bonus is a major selling point (so the others should be aware) and brought you up on it....i didn't realise that it was going to cause you so much pain......for that i apologise. What do you think i think is wrong with £10 voucher you muppet? i mean come on the company has spent a total of £3,000 pounds on pilots christmas bonus....without even a note to say it's from them!! I think they could show a bit more love!


Oh and if you wish to try and win a point for the working class by calling me rich boy when you haven't got a clue who you are talking to then go ahead.......You can make yourself look like a fool.....there's 'now't' wrong with that!!!!:D

[er82]

Agreeing with 80kts both on this one.
It's not the value of what 'bonus' they give us for Christmas, it's the fact that a nice written card (hell they only have to write it once, print it on a sticker, and then stick it in every card) would be much more appreciated than a blank one. Other than the fact that the envelopes has the flybe stamp on, it could otherwise have come from an unknown source!

Name-calling is soooooooooo last year. This is NOT a personal-dig forum, please let's keep the childish-ness in the playpen.

Oh, and as far as flying the 777 for half the salary I'm on now.....I'm not a prostitute unlike others in this aviation world, so wouldn't touch that offer with a bargepole.

[Hudson Bay]

80 kts.

The train set belongs to the Walkers. If you don't like it leave. Simple. Plenty of people to fill your position. My guess is your just a proffesional moaner and an amateur Pilot.

Flybe are a great Airline, secretly you know that and that is why you work for them. Or is it because your from the CI. and it is the only job you can get because of your geographical home?

No, I'm wrong. You had an offer from BA and you turned them down because there Christmas bonus was only a fiver!!! Ha Ha!!

[er82]

Oh dear... so very sad....

why is it that some like to lower themselves to such a level from where they can throw personal insults....

Hudson... for some reason can't access your profile at the moment so can't tell what your 'experience' is... why the comments about whether 80ktsboth as in amateur pilot or not?! Do you not have ANY valid argument.... Are you that pathetic that you turn a discussion about a COMPANY into a personal firing range.....

Try re-reading the post. The whole thing. Once you have read it all, and understood what we've been discussing, then maybe you'll be able to make a comment regarding the situation. Do not lower this to some playground fight. I'd expect that from a teenager. If you're an adult, please comment on the situation like one....

[80ktsboth]

I've obviously hit a nerve.:{


Not gonna start playing childish games with you Hudson.


GROW UP and start behaving in that professional manner that you have and i don't.

[howsurflight]

Hi, anyone know anything in regards to the very recent resignations. Interviews today etc.

[pilotarosa]

hallo!
I ve been reading this post for a bit now, and, considering I have been just offered a FO position on the dash with Flybe, I would like to ask a couple of questions.
1. Anyone could explain me how the 13500pounds bond works?I know you have to sign a load with Barcklay, etc...but at the end of the month, how much of your salary does flybe take away to repay the loan?
2. I heard a lot of comments about the roaster instability etc....and I am not new to it, although in a different company....I know how frustrating it's sometime the fact that you can never plan ahead.....but in an ideal world, if everything would go as planned....what the roster pattern would be like? and how many day in advance are you given it?
3. how did you find the type rating?

Thank-you for the reply...and i hope to meet you in the flight deck soon!

[er82]

1) You don't actually lose any of your salary each month. Flybe include the £300 (or whatever it is) in each payslip. The loan agreement with Barclays has that same amount coming out of your account the next day. You'll only lose money if you leave flybe before the bond is up - then you'll be paying it without flybe having given it to you first!

2)We get our rosters on 20th each month. Just enough time to be able to plan your social life.
No fixed roster pattern - some prefer it that way others would like to see something fixed. You could end up doing a couple of 6on2off, or a 5on2off, or a 4on3off. Totally depends on crew numbers etc etc.

3) Type rating was ok. Was my first one so nothing to compare it to. Did it out in Toronto. Great ground and sim instructors.

[pilotarosa]

thank you very much for the explanations!!!!
now things are more clear.....thanks

[citizensmith]

Hudson Bay

Get a life LOSER!

I've never worked for such a bunch of amateurs in my life. And that covers Ronald Mcdonald too.
Just because you're from Fraggle Rock and you've never smelt the real world let alone seen it, doesn't mean you can go encouraging poor unsuspecting newbies to come and line the pockets of the walker boys.

Get back to me when you've removed your egg shaped head from your proverbial.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

Wolfie xxxxx

howsurflight

I\'D RESIGN TODAY IF I COULD AFFORD IT1

[er82]

Now now citizensmith, let's not go tarnishing everyone from the islands with the same brush....

I have seen the real world thank you very much!!

[hingey]

Does anybody know anything about flybe's sponsorship schemes?

[judewatt]

Hi everyone/anyone

Can anyone shed any light on the Belfast recruitment?
I applied but haven't heard anything.

I have about 250 hrs but I did my course in Aeromadrid, does that mean Flybe won't consider me due to their links with Cabair?

Are there many women pilots in Flybe?

Cheers
Jude

[EGAC_Ramper]

Well Belfast speaking I know there is at least 1 female FO and 1 Captain that immediately spring to mind so no worries there,as for Aeromadrid I can't say.Maybe see you next year at BHD after me training!:D

[AlphaCharlie]

Flybe are offering same deal again. £5000 to start on a 146 course this coming Monday. Same terms and conditions as before!

[er82]

Doesn't surprise me..... Shaft existing crew yet again.....

[eghi r20]

Can I pay 5K for a t/prop pilot to go on to a 146 then i fill the seat in the dash !! (although i dont have a magic wand to free up dash sim slots)

i know..... i know ....its the sort of comment you would only get from a wanabee. I guess all companys work in mysterious ways ?

[Flying Fiona]

From the Admin manager.... Over 1000 CV's on her desk and more in personel. Alot of Pilots and no jobs!

[ABO944]

I wonder what a pile of 1000 CV's looks like!?:uhoh:

I cant imagine them counting them all ;)

:E

[thereceiver2004]

be positive, it could be a pile of 5000 :ok:

[Crashlanding]

whats this 5000 for the 146? is that a bonding agreement or is it a part sponsered type rating?

[AlphaCharlie]

Ok ok as I understand it the deal is you give them £5000 towards the cost of the 146 type rating, you then enter a temporary contract with them for up to 18 months on the 146, to see them through until they start taking delivery of the Embraer 195s. Like normal, you go on the seniority list etc when you join the company so this and your bid entitlements aren't affected by the temporary contract. However, after the 18 months you will be moving back on the Q400, which as result may entail a base transfer if their operational needs require at the time, oh and for the entire time you're on the 146 you are on turboprop pay and conditions. However, this 18 months does count towards your 3 year Q400 bond.

Great offer for some, very very very unattractive for others. Plus you are trying to foresee where you and the company will be at in 18 months to see whether the step back on to the Q400 is a backwards move for you and therefore the £5000 isn't worth it.

Ironic thing is they are desperate to fill seats on the 146 ... so why are they charging for it ... I'm guessing because they can! But its strange because you would have thought getting the best bum on that RHS is more important than getting the person that paid you £5000 for it. Surely, the airline covering the £5000 x 10-15 or however many people they employ on this offer is cheaper for them than the cost of cancelled 146 flights over the summer months. Especially seeing that after 18 months on the jet you have that amount of jet time and only owe Flybe around £7000 in bonding ... thats a cheaper line-training deal than Astraeus offer!! Hardly think the £5000 will make people stay with the company any longer, so they are just creating a false economy surely and will never truely solve the staffing problems.

[er82]

AC - almost right, but you got one figure massively wrong. They'll be going onto the 146 for up to 8 months. If it was 18, a lot lot more 400drivers would have walked. The reason they took 10 straight onto the 146 with this deal was because they couldn't release Dash crews for 146 training, because they are short on Dash FO's as it is. What with the time taken to train, it was easier for them to be short on the 146 until the new guys were trained, rather than doing things fairly and being even shorter on the Dash as well....

The £5000 is for the TR on the 146. They are also bonded from the word go for £13000. The reason they introduced the bond is because, as all of us in the queue for the 146 pointed out - who would have paid £5000 for a jet TR, worked over the summer and got a decent amount of jet hrs, and then willingly gone on the Dash..... They would have walked (as any sane person would) leaving those Dash guys, who had been waiting to get on the jet, 8 months down on the increase in salary, 8 months of which they could have ben paying off a jet bond, and 8 months of jet time.

[AlphaCharlie]

er82 check your PMs

[fly-half]

Flybe are clearly DESPERATE!!

Makes me really smile after all the lies Big Don said to me.

[Smokie]

He is not the Only One who Lies through his Teeth!!!!!

[AlphaCharlie]

What's the latest from Exeter? Many more resignations at the end of May?

[Freebird17]

Does anyone have any up-to-date info on flybe resignations/recruitment?

Latest acknowledgement letter from them says "holding pool full"......"not recruiting again until late Autumn". True or PFO?

[Maude Charlee]

Seemingly true, although if you're from the Channel Islands you'll be able to leapfrog everybody as they are desperate for crews with the residency rights. Cabair sponsored cadets also being fast-tracked through, and holding pool candidates not planning to be called forward until the end of the year.

[rational rotation]

Any chance anyone could give me a heads up on what is involved in the sim check at Woodford as I have mine coming up very soon. Any help would be much appreciated

[nick p]

nobody did answer the question to the names of the flight ops admin manager and the acting fleet manager turboprops,can anyone shed any light on this?

[Maude Charlee]

RR

Pm me for sim notes.

MC