QF pilots using "Guard" for chats!!!

[Ace on Base]

This is just PI$$ING me of no end - and its happening more frequently!!!:mad: :mad:

We listen out on this freq to possibly help some poor fella in trouble - not listen to their DRIVVLE:yuk:

EVER heard of NUMBERS.... uno, 123.45:rolleyes:

Anyone else have this problem (particularly around the southern region:{

Keep smiling sunshiners (unless you are a QF culprit!!) :*

[swh]

Ace,

Do us all a favour and let the AusSAR know when you hear the transmissions.

Each time they transmit on 121.5 the sat picks up the signal then manpower can be wasted trying to work out if its an aircraft down, missing hiker, missing vessle or something else.

I know in a few years 121.5 will not be used by the sats, but that time has not arrived yet.

Letting AusSAR know can help them eliminate a bogus signal from someone that actually needs help.

:ok:

[Ace on Base]

Wilco, SWH!

Next time I will record time, place, and flight number to pass on to AusSAR, Then maybe something may be done to remind these culprits about what good airmanship is about and also radio ettiquete!!;)

I urge other Ppruners to do the same!

Keep Smiling Sunshiners!

[*Lancer*]

swh, do AusSAR still monitor 121.5? I was under the impression that the only ones listening these days were pilots... even maritime use different frequencies now.

[swh]

Lancer,

As far as I know yes... from the AMSA/AusSAR (http://www.amsa.gov.au/Search_and_Rescue/) web site.

Please note: 121.5 MHz distress beacons will cease to operate from February 2009 when only 406 MHz beacons will be detected by the satellite system.

:ok:

[bonvol]

Ace on Base. Post it on here.

Then we can put it on qrewroom for the dopes to really get embarrassed.

[Keg]

I haven't been around the domestos network much in recent times but I reckon that we've decreased our action on 121.5 on South East Asia over the last couple of years. I see the 'numbers' up a lot more now than I used to.

Instead of putting it up here, why don't you write a letter to the Chief Pilot? That'll get to more QF drivers than putting it on here will! :rolleyes:

[Ace on Base]

Bonvol and Keg,

Why dont I put it "HERE" and send the Chief Pilot an email simultaniously!!!

then there should be double the embarasment and BUT KICKING!!!

[Capt Fathom]

It didn't take long for the annual 'which airline is chatting on 121.5' to get underway!
Next.

[Frank Burden]

From a 14 October 2004 (ie about three months ago not 12 months):

I spoke with my mate Swifty at AusSAR and he told me that ATS do not routinely monitor 121.5 MHz, some towers do have the capability using a handheld transceiver, and most aircraft B737 size above monitor the frequency in the cruise. AusSAR relies on Airservices and its ground air communications network to alert it when an emergency situation exists.

Just had a look a ICAO Annex 10, Vol V and it indicates 121.5 MHz is the aviation emergency channel and shall only be used 'for genuine emergency purposes' including its use as an operating frequency for distress beacons (that is ELTs, EPIRBs and PLBs).

The document goes on to say at 4.1.3.1.2 that 'the frequency 121.5 MHz shall be provided at:
a) all area control centres and flight information centres;
b) aerodrome control towers and approach control offices serving international aerodromes and international alternate aerodromes; and
c) any additional location designated by the appropriate ATS authority, where the provision of that frequency is considered necessary to ensure immediate reception of distress calls or to service the purposes specified [earlier].'

and, stating the bleeding obvious:

(4.1.3.1.4) 'The emergency channel shall be guarded continuously during the hours of service of the units at which it is installed.'

Swifty also told me that transmissions on 121.5 MHz can upset units homing to a radiating distress beacon so the frequency should only be used in an emergency. He also said that 406 MHz distress beacons also transmit a low powered 121.5 MHz signal for units to home to the distress beacon (the satellite won't be listening to this frequency from early 2009). But note, 121.5 MHz will remain the aviation distress frequency.

In short, only use 121.5 MHz for emergency situations, note that Airservices does not routinely monitor it (why?) except at some manned towers but not necessarily continuously, and many larger RPTs monitor the frequency in the cruise. So its usefulness in some areas when experiencing an emergency may be questionable and the frequency in use, the overlying ATS frequency if operating in G or the multicom frequency may be better options in these cases.

Thanks for the help Swifty.


Swifty in his drink told me that AusSAR is very much indebted to the high flyers (and for a rotor head that is difficult to swallow) that monitor 121.5 MHz and report distress beacon signals to Airservices to pass on to AusSAR . Unfortunately, the low end of town that are the major customers of the SAR services don't seem to give a toss for their fellow aviators. But then again, no one appreciates these things until it is their loved one out there.

I guess the bottom line is keep off 121.5 MHz unless it is related to an emergency situation. Chat somewhere else and the numbers or company are the best options. However, monitor 121.5 MHz if you have the radio capacity and advise Airservices or AusSAR directly via satphone (if you have the gear) if you hear a distress beacon or an emergency phase being declared by an aircraft.

By the way, Swify told me if it is furphie that the satellites picks up every transmission on 121.5 MHz as they are looking for a swept tone. I told him that my wife is too busy with the broom in the kitchen to be transmitting on VHF at the same time.

:ok:

[Zarg]

Frank Burden has some really good info there, but I must admit in my 10 years in SAR with CAA and AusSAR, I have never met "Swifty" drunk or sober! :D

The Cospas-Sarsat Satellite System does not in fact pick up voice transmissions - we trialled it in 1996 - but these voice transmissions will certainly interfere with SAR aircraft homing on a beacon! So, STAY OFF IT UNLESS YOU NEED IT! 'Nuff said!:ok:

[Capn Bloggs]

Stop quacking on Guard you morons! :*

[Andu]

I look forward to testing the collective blood pressure of Prooners when we hear "The" QF XX passing the time of day with his mates on Guard.

Whilst on the subject, why do so many people (who are on a common frequency) chose to use Guard rather than the common freq to ask you to come up the numbers?

[blueloo]

I wouldnt be getting stuck into QF for a "THEQF XXX". I would say its very rare, and chances are if it does occur, it is because it is some individual wally with a carrot up his bum, and is likely the same away from flightdeck. The main culprit and the most frequent (very frequent) is THE SPEEDBIRD. It seems to be an ingrained habit from Nigel - he(she) just cant help himself!!!!!


Having said that, there are 2 separate threads in other forums on this, so no need to start another eh?

[TIMMEEEE]

All very true and frustrating to hear conversations on 121.5, but at the same time we have been called up numerous times on HF with the request to contact aircraft and pass on messages.

Often 123.45 doesnt cut it but yep, good ol 121.5 gets them virtually every time !
And yes, we get them to go to 123.45 to pass on the message.

And no, we dont call ourselves, ""The __" !!!

[DirectAnywhere]

It happens on 121.5 for the simple reason that most aircraft have 3 VHF comms. So why use guard I hear you say??

Comm1 is usually assigned the VHF ATC frequency.
Comm2 is - as a requirement of SOPS - tuned to 121.5

So what about Comm3 I hear you ask?? Comm3 is usually invisible from our point of view as it's being used by the ACARS and autotunes to the applicable ACARS frequency.

So, if you want to get in touch with a QF aircraft, or any other High Capacity RPT inflight for that matter, what is the one frequency they should all be monitoring? Yep, 121.5.

Personally, I only use 121.5 to tell the other aircraft to come up 123.45. But there is a reason to call on 121.5 as it's the only frequency everyone's usually monitoring.

Take a bex and have a good lie down, btw.:hmm:

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

QF actually DO call themselves "THE", but only on 123.45 or guard.

It's a shorthand thing. Instead of me saying "this is the Brisbane-Singapore daily", I say this "the QF51" or "the 51". QF pilots generally know where the callsigns are going to.

And yes I agree that any conversation on guard apart from trying to get an aircraft to go to 123.45 is unprofessional.

[BankAngle50]

You’ve got to understand it’s taken the poor long haul radio operator (SO) years to get into that seat and operate under so much VHF coverage. The excitement of talking on the radio will soon dissipate.

For those of us that have read our Jepps, another lovely *Unique to Australia---pilot to pilot Comms on 123.45.

[Captain Can't]

so BA50, how do you raise someone, who could well be on another area frequency and is not monitoring 123.45? Unless you are on HF and have two 'spare' VHFs, 121.50 is on the second... ??

i'm with DA.

[Ron & Edna Johns]

Well, who was wally the other day:

During the HF comms problems over the Pacific during the week, an aircraft was heard using the broadcast procedure on 121.5 as per international procedure. After the postion, FL, ETA, etc was broadcast, some joker was heard to transmit: "You're on guard"................ :ugh:

The first aircraft's Captain (obviously) then jumped on the line and said: "You idiot, he's meant to be!"

Well said, Captain!

Spare me, guys, there really are bigger, more important issues in life than to fret the use of 121.5

[one ball]

So you're operating radio equipment with the old "GUARD" channel installed are you? And you've selected 121.5 as the frequency you want "GUARDED"??

No, all you've done is tune a 2nd VHF set to 121.5 and picked up the moronic and brain-dead habit off your colleagues of referring to it as "GUARD". Some people are just SO stupid.


In other news, heard in the BALI FIR yesterday:

A chick referring to herself as The Qantas XX relaying for The Other Qantas YY a position report. Sounding like a **** in the process in front of so many others on the air. Unreal...

So it isn't just happening on 121.5, the quantas chat freq.



It's easy. If you MUST transmit on 121.5,

Just say "The Quantas 1, The Quantas 2, come up on Numbers....."

Simple really.



Not:

(The Quantas 2 )
"The Quantas 1, The Quantas 2 on 'Guard' "

(The Quantas 1)
"The Quantas 2, The Quantas 1, it's not "guard" but anyway, go ahead."

(The Quantas 2 )
"The Quantas 2, how's the wind ahead at Bombay?"

(The Quantas 1)
"The Quantas 1, say again???"

(The Quantas 2)
"The Quantas 1, The Quantas 2 request you pass the wind over Bombay?"

(The Quantas 1)
"The Quantas 1, WELL I can sh!t on it if you like...?"

(The Quantas 2)
"The Quantas 2..... Um.... come up on numbers?"

(Unknown callsign)
"Yeah good one The Quantas, get off frickin guard you fux..."

(Second Unknown Callsign)
"It's 121.5, not guard..... you moron."

(Some Poor GA fcuk)
"Mayday, Mayday, Mayday, Alpha Bravo Charlie engine failure, no longer at 9000ft, about to impact the ground, no ELT available, position is 15NM north of......." (Sounds of impact.)

(First Unknown Callsign)
"Onya, The Quantas..."

(The Quantas 2)
"What Evv Errrrrrr........"

[Icarus2001]

Keep the transmissions brief and there will be no problems. Less than twenty seconds continuous transmission will not "intefere" with anything.

There is "guard" and there is a "guarded" frequency.

Here is an example of a transceiver that is "guard" capable...http://incolor.inetnebr.com/iceman/pilot27.htm

Now can we discuss something more interesting? Some pilots make fools of themselves by talking on the radio and some pilots are simply fools anyway.

[blueloo]

"The Qantas 81, this is THe Qantas 179" "The" is not necessary. There is only 1 Qantas 81 or 179 or XXXX at any one time (insert someone who can prove more than 1 of same flight number very shortly)

'Qantas XX, (this is) Qantas XXX' - sounds fine to me.

If your in QF Dont use "THE". You sound like a tosser. Leave it for Nigel in BA. He/She does it best - and provides us all with a good laugh.


Anyway, pointless rant over.

:E :E

[pullock]

I hate it when people call the frequency 121.5 MHz "guard".

"Guard" is a programmable channel in military radios and can be any number of frequencies. This frequency is not necessarily 121.5 MHz.

My two cents worth is brief traffic on this frequency here and there is not too much of a problem. It's been happening for years and will happen for a long time to come.

Don't blame it all on QF et al as most of the trafic I have heard on 121.5 has been military. Rather than baging the industry for monitoring a frequency for the good of all, how about thanking the industry for doing so, and accept that that the result of this monitoring might mean that ppl call each other on it from time to time.

If ppl stop monitoring 121.5 MHz in favor of listening to 123.45 MHz then you have made a decrease in the functionality of 121.5 MHz as a well monitored emergency channel which would be far worse than any purist idea of keeping the channel clear!!!

GGAL

[Three Bars]

Some of you guys really need to take a Bex and loosen up a bit!

I have been flying for over 20 years and have always heard 121.5 referred to as "guard". If I want to talk to another QF aircraft, I will attempt contact on 121.5 first because:
a) I don't want to congest or block the ATC frequency;
b) with ATC retrans, the other aircraft may not be in the same area as I am; or
c) I know that the other QF aircraft should be monitoring 121.5 on VHF2.

So, if I want to talk to them on 123.45, I attempt contact on guard first. For all those purists, calling it "guard" on the radio is also faster than saying "one two one decimal five".

Finally, to the original poster of this thread - don't generalise. From first-hand experience, I heard two Virgin Blue pilots having a very nice little chat on 121.5 out of Perth the other day, but I didn't start a thread saying "Virgin pilots using "guard" for a chat". Some pilots in all companies do do it, nobody should, end of story.

[q1w2e3]

Gents

Military ATC and pilots both monitor 243 MHz. Any transmission on 243MHz activates an audio alarm in the ATC system which if it goes for more that 10 seconds must be reported and acted on as it may be a real emrgency.

The problem is 121.5 is 'paired' to 243 (2 x 121.5 = 243) so when you transmit on 121.5 it is picked up on 243 and activates the alarm.

At the end of the day 121.5 is an 'emergency' frequency not a 'chat' frequency and should be used as such.

[bushy]

And 123.45 has been "purchased" by a Darwin company for use as their company frequency.

[capt kickback]

Qantas or Virgin Blue it doesnt matter you are both as bad as each other!!!.....do us all a favour and quite the 121.5 chat sessions??......this is a typical Australian insular aviation thing......Iam embarresed to think Iam an Australian when I fly back into AUS airspace and hear all this C--- being utterd on 121.5.......Apart from (Nigel) the rest of the world does not have this problem!!!!!!

[Capt Fathom]

I think we all get the picture ... thanks!

[rockarpee]

I was going to respond to this thread,then re read it a coupla times, then thought VINO betta idea. But hell !!! Bin with the white rat 16 years, NEVER heard "THE" on the airwaves except for birdseed, and chatting on 121.5 is not QF norm, but does happen, so why don't u heroes tell them to move on.....Hell I do.Bugga I DID respond on this thread!!!!!

[Zarg]

Okay, let's settle down a bit! :D

Pullock and Three bars have got it just about right!

From a Maritime perspective, Channel 16 VHF is the Marine equivalent of 121.5 and is used as a calling and emergency frequency/channel. Having called xxx the next move is to call on a "working" channel or frequency and carry on the conversation.

In other words, use the "guard" frequency to establish comms ....then ....buggar orff!:E :ok:

[one ball]

(Z) Arrrrrrrrrrrrrggghhhhhhhh.........!!!!!!

Why is this simple concept SO SO SO hard to understand???

I give up, I'm never posting here again. :rolleyes:

[Ace on Base]

"Guard"..."Guarded", does it make a flying toss what type of radio set it is.......... it could be crystalised for all I care!!!

It dosnt make a single iota - 'cept the rubbish that comes from so called professional pilots on a freq that is primarily set up for emergency trans and retrans, not so that Billy Baxter can chat to Brian Brown when they are too far away from each other to chat on their own freq!

Tis of my understanding that QF (and I guess other operators also) have a string of ops freqs across Ozz.... If its that friggin important, a call to the closest company ops from QFXX on company freq, then ask them to call the ops in the other part of the country that QFYY sould be in, and ask politely to relay the message - betya now that message has just lost its importance!!

I think in a day and age when we are alot more advanced in communication systems than say 10, 20, or 30 years ago, we have lost sight of two fundamental professional issues here:
1) AIRMANSHIP,
2) RADIO ETIQUETTE

My two cents again............ BTW, Hows the WX in L.A.?

[A/F Armed]

So did someone say something they weren't supposed to on this aforementioned "Guard" frequency or were they relaying a message from ATC to another aircraft because the VHF coverage in some parts of the country are so poor. And re the comment about monitoring 123.45, who monitors a chat frequency? I mean honestly are you for real. The other comment I would like to offer for consideration is that there are more aviators and companys out there than just the company copping the blagging that are regularly heard passing wx info back and fwds on 121.5 More so at night than during the day but seriously, as long as its not a long winded conversation about who shagged who and its operationally required to pass or recieve the information who gives a ....................

[Capt Fathom]

Actually, 123.45 is monitored in RVSM airspace when outside ATC VHF coverage (ie oceanic airspace).