Let's make this private

[jagman]

Wouldn't you love to know what's going on at BA,Virgin,British Midland etc etc in graphic detail?
Well you can't because they don't wash their dirty linen in public.
Doubtless we cause huge amusement to the Cheesecakes of this world with our moans and groans, and some of you NEED to keep your appalling spelling as private as possible!
PLEASE Danny - how do we make this private.
Anyone else agree??

[Kubota]

HKAOA BBS.

[Four Holer Roller]

Couldn't agree more with the principle...the only problem is I believe many of the posts are intended for a wider audience, not least CX management; believe me they DO read Prune!

[BusyB]

No

[jumpseat]

You get my vote Jagman. Lets take this private Danny. It's about to get very serious here in HK and I think management have got the gist, so it would be advantagous to take this private for strategic reasons.
I would also encourage you all to take this over the AOA BB.
Hey Danny/PPrune towers/Tai Pan how about leaving the Fragrant Harbour public whilst opening a cathay section. BA, BMA etc have their own little private deals so it's about time we did.

[Grug]

yeh thats what i was gunna say

[777_Driver]

Here! Here! Jaggy, come on Danny give us a private forum.

[jeremy]

I agree with Jagman - we need a private forum and now would be a very good time to have one!

[Midnight Rambler]

I agree.

[Sweet FA]

Hey what about us, will us beauties be included? We have a part to play in these discussions too don't you agree?

Maybe CRM doesn't apply here on the WWW zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[jeremy]

Sweet FA, the private forums require you to register by initially giving your real name, email address and ERN to prove that you're an employee of the company concerned -'posts' would be done anonymously using your alias. I'm not certain but presume that as a CX employee you'd be entitled to register and continue to contribute

[This message has been edited by jeremy (edited 21 November 2000).]

[BusyB]

No, I don't agree. This forum should remain as it is to enable potential recruits to familiarise themselves with how you're really treated at CX and to ensure management are aware that their lies and cockups are broadcast. Yes, lets have a private AOA bbs but leave this alone, PPRuNe has been the poorer for all the private forums.

[Sweet FA]

I prefer a public forum mainly because having to give my real name does not appeal to me. Sarcasm or jokes meant for a laugh can offend some people who may take a personal attack on me or others. Anyway thank you Jeremy.


Sweet FA seeya........... :)

[InUSAandObserving]

Perhaps you should take this private. However, as you go into your closet remember that the pilot's of UA, DEL and the other members of ALPA have had their side of every fight with their companies in the major news media, and had much of the public on their side. The people in your organization have not bothered to make these issues one for the flying public to know about. Brand loyalty is a very important marketing issue and CX has had brand loyalty, but even the best brands can lose the loyalty of their customers and quite often it is from the PAX point of view "oh if I had only known." I have posted here for the past 18 months about how to address the loyal customers, and many of the other loyal customers have posted suggestions here for how to address your PAX through the media and legal aspects, but you just don't listen. You as a group rather hear you own bleating. And some people (usually managers) are smart enough to listen to your bleating and know just how to play a bleating fool for all he is worth.

Those of us who have been watching and suggesting and supporting from the outside wonder just when and what will it take for you as the aircrew group to get off your duffs and really take some effective action?

When will the PAX flying CX out of LAX, SFO and other major locations in the USA read in the LA Times about your fight and what the risks are for them to fly with CX due to stress or about the potential of delays during their holiday visits? Your group acts as if the media is the nuclear weapon holding it off till the last resort, well you may find it to have been the wrong strategy because of the way the news business works to promote and or distroy the market share of a business. Yes they (the news media) will be all over CX when a 744 crashes and kills people, but they won't be talking to you (the aircrew and your reps) they will be talking to the official spokes person for CX. But then I have said all of this before and your muzzles remain and you bleat again and again on this BB but ...you know the rest of the story, just look at your history for the years past nearly 7 years.

[This message has been edited by InUSAandObserving (edited 22 November 2000).]

[InUSAandObserving]

Here are just two articles that let you see that you can get your message out and that it does and can have a tremondous effect.

Air Travel Complaints Rise America West, United Take Flak

By David Ho
The Associated Press
W A S H I N G T O N, Feb. 3 — Airline passengers have a message: We will not go quietly from bad service on that last flight.
In 1999, the number of complaints to the Transportation Department concerning the 10 major U.S. carriers more than doubled, ballooning to 13,709 from 5,808 in 1998. This increase occurred while the number of passengers on those carriers increased by about 16 million between 1998 and 1999 to 553.8 million, a growth of about 3 percent, the department said.
Complaints could include such things as scheduling, overbooking, fares, baggage and service.
The 10 airlines themselves reported more than 2.5 million complaints about lost or damaged luggage.
“The irritation level is just a lot higher,” said David Stempler, president of the Air Travelers Association, a passenger advocacy group.
Stempler said years of increasing numbers of air travelers has led to full planes, stressed nerves and strained airline resources.
“We keep demanding of the airlines that they provide low fares, and one of the ways they do that is by tightening up the seat rows, by reducing the amount of food, by reducing the number of flight attendants. Then we complain about it,” he said.
America West Rates Worst
A major focus of traveler ire last year was America West, which had the highest rate of passenger complaints to the Transportation Department, nearly four for every 100,000 passengers. The average for all 10 major airlines was roughly 2½ complaints for every 100,000 passengers.
Most of the America West complaints related to cancellations and delays, and if air travelers took attendance, the airline would be held after class for chronic tardiness. The Phoenix-based company had the poorest on-time arrival record of any major airline in 1999, with almost a third of its flights pulling up to terminal gates more than 15 minutes behind schedule.
TWA stood at the head of the class, with close to 81 percent of its flights delivering passengers on time, according to the Air Travel Consumer Report issued Wednesday. The Transportation Department report does not specify the reasons for flight delays, which might be caused by severe weather, air traffic control decisions, passenger problems or equipment failures.
The report showed that less than 70 percent of America West’s flights arrived on time in 1999. The airline also had the most arrival delays in 1998.
America West spokeswoman Patty Nowack said she couldn’t comment until reviewing the report.
Doing only slightly better than America West in terms of delays was Alaska Airlines, with 29 percent of its flights arriving late at the gate. U.S. Airways rounded out the bottom three with close to 29 percent of its flights being tardy.
Travelers Happy With Southwest
In January, the Transportation Department’s inspector general began accepting complaints from consumers concerned about airline overbooking and ticket prices.
Concerning reports of mishandled bags, United Airlines had the worst record, with 543,491 complaints.
Southwest Airlines had the lowest rate of complaints overall last year, with only 0.4 for every 100,000 air travelers. The airline also had the lowest percentage of reports concerning bags that were damaged, lost or delayed.
In 1998, Southwest had been the on-time arrival winner but slipped to No. 2 last year with an 80 percent on-time record.
Almost in a dead heat with Southwest, Northwest came in third for on-time arrivals, a big improvement for the airline that had ranked No. 9 in 1998.
The 10 air carriers were Alaska, America West, American, Continental, Delta, Northwest, Southwest, TWA, United and US Airways.



This one was from a company effected by delays and what it can cost them. Their response being published was their way to tell their customers that it isn't their fault, but you can send the word out in advance and with delays already taking place and use such information to let the business world know how much it can cost them too. Use the tools available to you.

Air Travel Delays Leave Employees Running on Empty
By MARTHA BRANNIGAN
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL


From The Wall Street Journal

ATLANTA -- All summer long, employees at Manhattan Associates Inc. have been breaking records. But they aren't the kind that companies like to brag about.

Software consultant Kartik Hariharan logged eight consecutive delayed flights between Atlanta and Detroit. Jeffrey Victor, a vice president at the fast-growing software company, waited almost three hours at New Jersey's Newark International Airport to board an airplane that then sat on the runway for another three hours. A delayed flight from Chicago put Alan Dabbiere, the firm's chairman, at his New York hotel at 2 a.m. After a short night's sleep and a busy day, he flew home to Atlanta five hours late.

June was the worst month ever for flight delays, according to the Federal Aviation Administration. July ranked No. 3. Two weeks ago, Transportation Secretary Rodney Slater met with industry leaders to discuss the crisis. The upshot: They'll try to get better, but don't expect big improvements anytime soon.

That's bad news for legions of companies like Manhattan Associates, where air travel is essential. More than half of its 650 employees fly regularly, booking $4 million a year through three in-house travel agents. Mostly, they fly Delta Air Lines, the dominant carrier out of Atlanta. But they also take Continental, American, US Air and other big carriers, none of which has been immune to delays. A look at the experience of Manhattan Associates this summer opens a window on the surging frustration of employers, employees and families across the country.

Manhattan Associates sells and installs software that helps businesses such as retailers Nordstrom Inc. and Limited Inc. manage their warehouses and distribution operations. A snag in the computer system can mean the customer can't ship goods, so Manhattan's consultants have to be ready to jump on a plane on short notice.

Mr. Dabbiere, the chairman and founder, moved Manhattan Associates to Atlanta from Manhattan Beach, Calif., five years ago specifically to help employees travel more efficiently. With many of his corporate clients east of the Mississippi and numerous flights in and out of Atlanta's bustling Hartsfield International Airport, he figured employees could handle a lot of their business trips in one day by leaving early in the morning and returning that night.

A day stuck at the airport can be costly: Manhattan typically bills its customers at $1,600 a day for each consultant. The company's revenue rose 66% to $63 million for the first six months of the year. But Manhattan Associates and its air-weary employees measure their misery in other ways: missed meetings, lost productivity, sleep deprivation and strained home lives.

In May, air-traffic and weather delays led project manager Sridhar Raman to wonder if he would make it home to help his nervous wife host 50 guests for their one-year-old daughter's birthday party. Mr. Raman, 38, and a colleague were flying home to Atlanta from Ontario, Calif., via Houston, after a five-day stint installing and testing software for a client. The Continental flight left on time at 12:50 p.m. But as the flight approached Houston, the captain detoured to Beaumont, Texas, where the plane sat on the runway for two hours, waiting out stormy weather.

In Houston, after hours of weather-related delays, they finally boarded a Continental flight around 10:30 p.m. It sat on the runway until after 1 a.m. They arrived in Atlanta at 3:45 a.m. By 5 a.m., Mr. Raman climbed into bed, but he was too wired to sleep. He drifted through his daughter's party, red-eyed and foggy-headed.


[This message has been edited by InUSAandObserving (edited 22 November 2000).]

[This message has been edited by InUSAandObserving (edited 22 November 2000).]

[jeremy]

Sweet FA, you only have to give your name etc when you first register with the private forum - thereafter you post using your alias just as you do right now

[Zones]

No problem with a private a CX or Air HK, or Dragon or similar, for those who want to keep dirty washing private.

But think that a general Fragrant Harbour Forum should remain for those who wish more public discussion... such as wannabee's, ATCO's, SLF, press....