Cost of Living in HK Vs CX Payscales!

[Minima]

CX pilots on the PPRUNE have been complaining for quite some time regarding the rising cost of living in HK and thus very tight budgeting with their current salaries.Is it really that bad???How much does is the rent on a two bed apartment?Can a couple(with no kids)survive comfortably on a S/O salary or is it a hand to mouth situation?

[Guru]

I think it's all a matter of expectations. I know people who earn far less than what an SO does and still live quite happily. A lot of the pressure comes from one expecting to lead a certain lifestyle associated with pilots. Living on 30k a month can be and should be quite comfortable but if you set too high a standard then of course you'd see justification in complaining.

[spannersatcx]

Minima, I don't know all the ins and outs but there is also a housing/accommodation allowance paid if you are based in HKG. Don't know what the allowance is and if it covers sufficiently. In recent times allowances were reduced when the slump/recession hit HKG.

[satcom]

Chinese does not get any housing allowance !! So don't join CX with 4th class COS.

[electricjetjock]

Take what GURU says with a pinch of salt. Especially as his profile does not mention occupation and he is located in London.

Not a SP mole are we http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif .

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Keep smiling!!!!

[Guru]

hate to disappoint you ejj but i'm applying to CX's cadet programme. i'm a student in london

[chat sei chat]

100 % hand to mouth. There's no pension worth mentioning, and if you see kids in the crystal ball...you will get further behind.

[Minima]

Cathay used to be paying for mortgages of crew instead of housing allowances.The crew members would finally end up owning their properties.Is that still going on?

[Squiddley]

Minima,

This topic has come up before with some pretty valid (and not so) input. It might be my browser, but I can't find the search link to post it here, but it was about 6months ago.

Anyway, to answer your question, Guru has it dead on. It is not hard at all to live "comfortably" on an income of around the $30K figure mentioned. If your other half works too, all the better. We're two earners, one baby, a mortgage and a car and it's doable on combined income of around $35-40K without, yes, without any allowances.

Take all the moans with a very big sack of salt. It truly boils down to where you decide to live. This varies greatly for rent/mortgage. Yes you can live with all the swinging dicks in a trendy area close to "the scene", but you'll pay a hefty premium for it.

Aside from that, generally groceries, utilities, parking, fuel etc may be considerably more than you're used to. Medical cover will be a bonus as it can be expensive going private, but most likely that will be OK. On the other hand, if you don't mind the queue (!), the G'ment system could be much worse.

The big gripe, as I see it, is that ye goode olde dayes are gone and it puts folks off. It's not cheap here, but then you have to make trade-offs. You could do worse than get hold of a local paper and look through the property section to get an idea, BUT bear in mind those are the upper end of the scale.

You'll get all sorts of different feedback no doubt, but read between the lines, do a little checking and then finally your sums! It's not all doom and gloom, and nothing like the hand to mouth scenario. At the end of the day, we'd all like to be paid more than we earn :)

Best wishes.
Sq

[Kubota]

Suiddley

Occupation: Ground Ops MANAGEMENT

Be careful Minima...

[Squiddley]

Please don't quote selectively from profile details - all or nothing. And your point is exactly what Kubota ?

I was surprised it took as long as it did for someone to point it out.

Question : Would it make the blindest bit of difference if my occupation was chief pilot of XYZ ? Or nobel laureate? Or street sweeper?

Does one have to be all-seeing and all-knowing to have an opinion on the topic in question?

If you have a point, make it. Oh, and by the way, there's much more to "Ground Ops" than Cathay, with whom I have no connection, not that it is relevant.

Sq

[Kubota]

SQ, I am not going to be drawn into a tit-for-tat with you, but my point is that you would OF COURSE be siding with the pontificators on the FOPS side. Why wouldn't you? How could 99% of posts on FH be negative, 1% positive, and the 99% be wrong?

You are WRONG about "It is not hard at all to live "comfortably" on an income of around the $30K figure mentioned". Despite many attempts at our bosses to paint a different picture, there are many other airlines in CHEAPER countries that pay a LOT more. HKG is NOT CHEAP, and why should any employee have an amah look after a child while both parents work?

In case you haven't been reading much lately, there are many factual studies that prove, beyond doubt, that having a child in the care in anyone other than the parent is DAMAGING to the child. If you are placing your child in someone else's care, do your homework first. You may be doing irreparable damage without knowing it. Children grow up SMARTER, more loving and emotionally balanced if the parents in a two-parent, heterosexual situation raise them. No exceptions.

I am afraid that your "we're doing fine, don't mind the naysayers" is WAY off base.

That's all. KUBOTA

[Squiddley]

Kubota

The intention was not to instigate a "tit-for-tat", that was pretty obvious. However, stepping in with a weak "watch out blah blah" purely on the basis of an occupation needed redress. To answer your percentages question, I'd suggest that if an equal number of different folks within an organisation were thrown in together, the numbers could be vastly different. As it is, PPRuNe remains largely as intended, a pilots domain.

I can see your attempted pre-emptive strike by making any response look argumentative, but nevertheless:

"...you would OF COURSE be siding with the pontificators on the FOPS side." I don't exactly understand your point. My posting was based purely from a personal POV. Any beef you may have personally or collectively with your employer does not translate in this context. I have no more of an idea about you and your capacity than you do about me. Jumping on the popular "them and us" bandwagon is old hat and as we've all seen, it doesn't help anything. Quite the reverse it seems.

If I'm so "WRONG" about being able to make do with what we have, how do we manage it? Instead of just banging on to the same "impossible" theme, why not stop and think how the vast majority of people in HKG make ends meet. Yes, they make concessions, no they don't enjoy the same lifestyle as you or I might, but they manage without the griping. I'm not suggesting anyone should like it or lump it, but IF circumstances are so untenable, then there always are options.

Why try to deter people from coming here for possibly the same reasons that you did? Obviously people like Minima are asking questions as part of consideration of coming here. Nowhere have I said or inferred "we're doing fine, don't mind the naysayers" my point is that some find it adequate, others don't - it's for the individual to decide, based on many factors.

I'd agree with you that nothing can replace parents when raising children, and definitely don't advocate passing the buck entirely to a third party. However, it's the same issue of lifestyle and trade-offs. Children don't come into context of the original question, and if they DID, then (depending on their age) a single income of $30K might not be adequate. However, they were not in the equation.

At the end of the day, you have your job and remuneration, I have mine. Ditto opinions and ditto say on the matter. It just doesn't do to come in guns blazing then try to make any response look like petty bickering. We each make our own beds.

Every job has it's detractors, aviation being no exception. It also takes more than one "department" to make a company successful. Management and OPS need each other to be successful, and there are no two ways about it. This is why I have opted for OPS Management, being a hybrid, and am not afraid to say so. There's also more scope for advancement in our setup. I've done my time in the field, seen the problems and now help to make it better from an office. Whether or not our efforts meet with success depends as much on the OPS teams as it does on me.

I have no axe to grind, it's just saddening to see the industry suffer through such ill will.

Best wishes,
Sq

[Thrust]

Squiddley and Kubota, you both raise some reasonable points and some unreasonable ones.

What I don't understand is why would someone come to HK to commence a career and struggle for the first six years or so. There aren't many qualified expat groups that would bother to do this, why should we.

It is HARD setting up a home and all that that entails. There WON'T be much money left over at the end of the month on a single income. This WILL go on for quite a few years. When you get a command you should be quite comfortable but that may take 12 to 14 years. What's the point?

It used to be that an expat posting to HK was the cream on the cake so to speak; great conditions and benefits. Not so any more I'm afraid and I just don't see the point of coming. It certainly won't be for your or your families health!

Think carefully.

[Guru]

excuse my ignorance but i have to find out one way or the other:

how does CX salary compare with those of other airlines? there's a thread somewhere listing people's pay and from what i saw CX pilots seem to be rewarded quite handsomely. am i missing something here?