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hobie
9th Jan 2005, 15:27
"A Russian plane was forced to divert to Iceland yesterday, 8th Jan. after a drunken man started a fight with the crew and fellow passengers. A passenger said the man punched the Plane's Captain. Police removed the man from the Toronto - Moscow flight"

Thats all I have on the story .......

In this day and age, I would hope any guy attacking Crew would be flattened by "a Dozen Big Male passengers" in very quick time?

barry lloyd
9th Jan 2005, 16:08
It seems more than likely that this was an Aeroflot flight, in which case anyone messing with the flight crew is asking for more than they can cope with! Having flown Aeroflot many times, their cabin staff seem to be composed of retired shot-putters, almost all of them female, and with attitude! On one flight I was on a few years ago, the person next to me (a Russian), lit up a cigarette in a non-smoking area. The resulting exchange was short, impolite, and definitely to the point. The cigarette was promptly extinguished without any further discussion!

Ignition Override
10th Jan 2005, 01:12
Years ago all Aeroflot pilots were said to carry a pistol in their flightbags.

Maybe they should pull one out and point it at such an attacker as the flight attendants put handcuffs on the aggressor, and only then should the Captain punch the attacker in the face, or use his pistol handle to knock him to the floor.:ouch:

seat 0A
10th Jan 2005, 07:24
What was the captain doing in the back anyway?
I`m not going back there anymore in these cases. Let the cabin crew sort them out, with the possible help of the other pax, ofcourse. If that does not fix it, it`s no time to start practising my boxing skills, but to stay where Im needed most: at the controls.

Hangin' on
10th Jan 2005, 08:03
Damn right, a friend of mine got his balls kicked up by his adams apple by a drunken antipodean when he was an F/O, 5 months off flying while the docs repaired the damage, plus of course a bollocking from ops as he shouldn't have been down there in the first place.........:}

Sleeve Wing
10th Jan 2005, 17:01
>of course a bollocking from ops as he shouldn't have been down there in the first place.........<

........................oops, a second operation, eh ???????

:ok: :ok:

st.elmo
10th Jan 2005, 20:05
Quote:

"Maybe they should pull one out and point it at such an attacker as the flight attendants put handcuffs on the aggressor, and only then should the Captain punch the attacker in the face, or use his pistol handle to knock him to the floor."

Through the eyes of somebody living in Europe, where the combined number of killings donít even come close to those in the US of over 11,000 a year, I well believe that this type of attitude is not the answer.

As was mentioned earlier, a stern warning is sometimes the best approach. After that there are ways to physically restrain attackers other than the bullet!

Time to slate me now guys....................!

autosync
10th Jan 2005, 20:56
It all sounds very biblical

I am Birddog
11th Jan 2005, 04:10
That Russian Vodka makes your mind turn to mush...read some of my posts for proof of it :E

Ignition Override
11th Jan 2005, 05:52
St Elmo, I understand and respect differing opinions, but I stand by my comments-he might have incapacitated a pilot, a flight attendant, or passenger, maybe broken a nose or some teeth. Don't hurt him much, but make an example out of the low life, if one can get away with it, legally- but the legal problems are the main hang-up. As old William Shakespeare said "there's the rub".

The wimpish creatures (lawyers or accountants) who run some larger US airlines might not legally allow a return punch, for fear of litigation, but look at what happened to crewmembers over here before 9/11 happened, and on British/European planes even afterwards. But this topic is about a Russian airline ;) .

Let's not make excuses for such attackers, even if they had a very hard childhood. His actions are his decisions, whether he drank vodka or pepsi cola, and the cabin altitude was at sea level or 8500'.:suspect:

Mikehegland
11th Jan 2005, 10:29
Cowards the lot of you. Who is the captain of the aircraft then? Who is responsible for the aircraft and the safety of the passengers? Clearly not the Pilots as they are sat up front hiding and allowing the Stewards/ hostess to sort it out.

cargo boy
11th Jan 2005, 11:56
Interesting to see the different points of view here. Firstly we have the 'tabloid readers' who somehow decide to throw in made up statisitics about the number of murders in the US when compared to the whole of Europe. They obviously never considered the Balkans and the nasty little wars that take place there from time to time. :rolleyes:

Next we have the gung-ho Texan types with sore cojones from dragging them along the ground with their "I'll leave the flight deck and deal with the drunk". Obviously not a pilot who flies multi crew aircraft then. :rolleyes:

Whilst it may appear to the 'overendowed with testosterone ' types that remaining behind a locked cockpit door is a bit sissyish, I presume that most of them are not airline pilots and fail to realise that should their fantasies of a hollywood like overpowering of the drunk fail and they end up getting incapacitated through injury (just read about the guy who got kicked in the nuts) then you have an emergency situation and one poor pilot left to fly a two crew aircraft. On top of that you probably have the medical emergency aspect to contend with too.

Most cabin crew are trained to deal with conflict management and some are even trained in how to overpower and restrain unruly pax. Of course, any of Bin-Liners deciples now know that they only have to board a Texan airliner, have one of them act a bit drunk and they can be sure that one of the flight deck (you know, the John Wayne types who walk bow legged because of the large cojones) will open that door and come out to brandish his machismo and deal with the offender whilst the rest of Bin-Liners gang use the opportunity to its full effect.

:rolleyes: :yuk: :mad:

A-3TWENTY
11th Jan 2005, 12:43
If I think that me or my co-pilot need to go aft to deal with a situation like this,it`s time to divert and deboard the unruly passenger.

No further questions...

Ignition Override
12th Jan 2005, 05:47
Cargo Boy: My advice was for what a Russian airline might be able to get away with-that is how the thread began. Maybe it appears out of context. Your comments are reasonable and reflect the present day, which we are all too aware of. Mine merely reflect what might have worked as a deterrent, at least in the good old days. As active-duty pilots called it at the end of UPT, hoping for a very good first assignment (i.e. F-4/16, C-141...) this is just my 'dream sheet'.

Of course we hide behind our c0ckp1t doors thesedays, even before 9/11. Let's just be hypothetical, and consider what would prevent most, if not all passenger violence if we had the actual authority, and we were preferably on the ground. Nobody leaves the 'flightdeck' in the air anymore except when getting rid of our delicious (yek) metal-tainted coffee, in the lav (or plastic trash bag hanging from the FO's armrest-looks better than from our aileron trim knob).

It is still my opinion, and only mine(yeah-right), that such attacks on crewmembers would probably never occur if we were allowed, that is, allowed, to let a few people administer instant justice. One of my faults is being sincere whenever commenting on Pprune. I upgraded to (100-122 seats) 'turbofan' captain about a year before 9/11 happened [steam-gauge' and not ashamed :) ], and it is too bad that our corrupt US legal system allows corporations little or no chance to avoid litigation.

Several years ago, one of our fellow captains was punched in the face at the gate in DTW by a passenger with a major attitude problem: the captain was busy using his pen, writing on the flight release (required to be signed for each flight under Part 121), and the attacker wanted to use it.... This airline is so "limp-wristed", that it would not press charges because the attack was away from the plane! The Captain spent his money and time off to press charges! Too bad that he was not allowed to knock the guy's teeth in. In New England, the attacker appeared in court and was fined a modest amount of money. Maybe the Captain should have given his attacker a "Village People" sticker and a rainbow patch to stick on his front car bumper...then handed him his mascara......let's make sure that our airline system does NOT go in that direction.

At least flying cargo, people aren't carried in back, what a blessing. With our recent paycut, we are all subsidizing more cheap tickets (now Delta style?) so that we can carry more of the Jerry Springer type crowd:} .

If Europe starts showing that damned show on their tvs (MTV is bad enough) then I'll just carry a fake Canadian passport. Maybe "Soldier of Fortune" magazine can tell me where to get these.....and a cheap old M-1 .30 caliber carbine rifle.:cool: Mine is a wimpy, single-shot bolt action .22. Might need a rainbow sticker for it....:\

Daysleeper
12th Jan 2005, 06:29
On the basis of what happened in the last Irish "air rage" case (aquitted cos it happened outside Irish Airspace) what are the chances of a sucessful prosecution this time.

FlyMD
12th Jan 2005, 12:47
In only 15 years of listening to pilot stories, I remember 4 different first hand accounts of how pilots got injured while trying to solve a Pax problem in the cabin. The one I know best has been wearing a very nice set of third teeth since the incident...

My 2 cents: our duty is to operate the airplane until a safe full stop on the ground. Anything that compromises our ability to do so should be avoided.

Thus, I don't care how much of a wimp I look to my cabin crew: neither Pic nor FO will leave the cockpit if things get physical in the cabin, and the door stays locked. Period.