Rejected at Airforce because of airsickness

[MarkG]

Hi All,

I know this is a widely discussed topic here at Pprune, but I think my problem is a bit different.

My story:

My dream was, since I was a little boy, to be a pilot at the Dutch Airforce. When it was the right time to start the selection the feeling like: 'this is what I want!' was growing and I started the selection. Everything went very well from the psychological test till the medical test etc. After that I had to fly 6 flights on a Slingsby Firefly and this is the point where I thought I could not make my dream come true. Every flight I had to deal with airsickness and one time it caused me to (how do you say that in English uhm..) 'puke'. When I was flying I had no problems but when the instructor was taking it over, the problems began.

Because of all this, they decided to reject me and I will not get the opportunity to ever try this again. Does any of you know what I can do to get rid of this?

Thanks!

Mark

[heights good]

Mark, the only way to describe this is to think of it like drinking alcohol, to get better at it you need to drink more till your body gets used to it. Flying is the same the more you fly and the more your exposed to it the more of a tolerence you build up. The RAF run a course for air sickness and all they do is make you almost sick then stop till you feel ok. Once you recover they start again until your not sick anymore.

Im afraid it is pretty unlikely you will manage to get over without spending lots of money.

I know its not first choice but there is always the civilian route to take.

Hope it works out.

[MarkG]

Thanks for the fast reply...

Can you please tell me what your experience with airsickness is (are you a pilot or whatever..?)

[joe2812]

Is that what they do with RAF pilots who experience airsickness? Stick 'em in a whirly ball until they puke?

And whats this that you get used to alcohol?? You mean the more I drink, the more i'll have to drink to enjoy myself?? :eek:

[PPRuNeUser0172]

For guys in the RAF who suffer from severe airsickness, they attend a "desensitising course" which involves going down the the Centre of Av Med for the RAF and doing theory and practical excercises to combat airsickness, starting benignly and building up gradually. This can lead to several hours in the back of a Hawk at Boscombe, where they take you to within an inch of your life and let you relax to build up your tolerance. Not pleasant at all, but generally very successful.

Airsickness can be reduced or even erradicated with increased exposure as has been mentioned. It appears that it can be more of a psychological battle than a physiological one at times, and if you think you are going to be sick then you probably will. Best thing when you get that horrible feeling is to relax, get your head out of the cockpit and focus a long way off and try not to think about it!!! Obviously there are those cases where this wont work but you have to be positive about it. It is always worse when you are not in control as well, which is kind of obvious.

I think there are some natural remedies for motion sickness, but these must be approved by a doctor before flying on them as they may have nasty side effects!

[Non Normal]

I think there are some natural remedies for motion sickness, but these must be approved by a doctor before flying on them as they may have nasty side effects!

I can think of ginger tablets off the top of my head. We have them available from chemists for motion sickness. I don't know how effective they are though.

[AIRWAY]

Hello Mate,

Your not alone, when i started my flying training it took me awhile ( about 5 lessons ) to get over air sickness... The cure was simply to keep flying, get exposure to the enviroment until you get use to it, it's not an uncommon situation you will find.

I believe sea bands is another method you could try.

All the best
Airway
:8

[MarkG]

But when thou felt like you were gonna get sick, did you immediately return to the field or just keep flying?

[AIRWAY]

The first lesson yes, i did the mistake of returning, the following lessons i just continued and didnt return until the lesson was over.

[LondonJ]

When I started training I used to start feeling ill when I had to look down at my maps, clipboards or at the instruments alone for a prolonged period of time. I bought these wrist bands from boots (a chemist in the UK) that you leave on for the duration of the flight, apparantely they push pressure point on your wrist that suppress the vomit feeling. About 15 hours of using those and I was fine to go without them. Maybe they worked in a placebo like way but that's fine by me.

[MarkG]

Thanks for the reply's, keep them coming..

[joe2812]

I can second the wrist bands from Boots.

[MarkG]

What the problem really is is that I am rejected because of airsickness. They think it is a psychological problem that makes me sick. That's why they don't want me..

Now I am writing a letter, because I really want to go to the Airforce and it is actually the only thing I want. The things I have asked are necessary for this letter. They need to be persuaded (how do you say that..:hmm: ) that my airsickness isn't there forever and I can be 'cured'

[Milt]

MarkG

Airsickness/seasickness is usually an indication of a person's significant sensitivity to small accelerations. Without such sensitivity you would't get sick and some medications are available which serve to reduce your sensitivity.

Now, for a pilot, do we need sensitivity to accelerations. The better pilots certainly DO. For other crew members the opposite prevails.

Rejection of potential pilots by Air Forces because of a propensity to airsickness is a terrible left over from WW2 when the system was unconcerned with producing pilots with above average stick and rudder finesse. The "system" was more concerned in simplifying an aircrew production line.

Most above average 'stick and rudder' pilots today will be reluctant to admit to a so called "weak stomach". But it is their inherent fundamental reason for becoming above average. Those that aren't prone to airsickness don't appreciate their reduced sensitivity to the motions of an aicraft and compensate as best they can.

The pilot having enhanced sensitivity to motions will have no problems if he himself is in control of those motions and be less comfortable when someone else is in control.

I am in that category.

Having been through an extremely wide range of aviation experience including instruction and experimental flight testing, I would choose you as a potential above average military pilot were I on your selection board.

[MarkG]

This message is quite difficult for me to understand, but what your saying is that if you had to choose between some candidats and me, you would choose me? Could you please explain this again in uhmm easyer English

[MarkG]

Has someone got some more information?

[Flyin'Dutch']

Mark G,

Unfortunately Milt is not on the selection committee.

Air sickness is still a not very well understood phenomenon whereby psychological and vestibulo/visual factors play a role.

It can get overcome and to that effect the FAA allow student pilots to fly with motionsickness suppressing medication when they are flying with their instructor (but not solo) This way they get desensitised and a lot subsequently get on fine in aviation.

That is all going to be of little help to you. I think you will have little chance of convincing the selection board to change its mind. Hard fact is that they use the selection process to find those candidates which fit within their criteria. And for every one they fail there are 10 or 25 others that do meet their standard.

By all means try to get their minds changed but don't just focus on that. Otherwise you get stuck and become a very unhappy and frustrated bunny.

The next thing to do is to have a look around and consider other options. You would not be the first to be rejected by the Dutch Airforce to subsequently have a fullfilling career in the Navy or indeed for a commercial airline.

Best of luck

FD

[noisy]

Mark G,

I used to get as sick as a dog when I began studying for my PPL.
The sickness would come on quite suddenly and it was very debilitating - I couldn't control the aeroplane in that state.
I really felt like quitting and it was very depressing. I used an ordinary commercial airsickness tablet called 'Stugeron'. This is a drowsy drug, but since I was with an instructor, I felt that it was OK to use it.
At first I used it all of the time but gradually I weaned myself off it, only taking it on blustery days, but now I don't take it at all.

Is your airsickness related aerobatics or just the ordinary sensations of flying? Are you nervous before going flying? Do you find the cockpit environment hot, noisy, cramped etc. ?

I am afraid that the only way to overcome this is through further flight training. It seems to me that you are a promising candidate for a career in the RNLAF and it would be a shame if they didn't give you another chance if you could prove you had overcome your airsickness.

Regards,

Noisy

[MarkG]

Well, I was pretty nervous before the flight because I wanted to make it. I think everyone is nervous. The airsickness came up when the instructor did some aerobatics and when he did a 60 degree turn.. I also felt horrible after a stall (the instructor simulated it), when he closed the gas and it felt like the plane was falling or something, it was a weird feeling but I got sick of that..

[noisy]

My I ask how many hours you have?

[MarkG]

Haha, that's the 'problem' I guess. I dont have any hours except for the 6 flights I made when I did the selection.. It is probably around 6 hours

[MercenaryAli]

A person who cannot stand the sight of blood might want to consider becoming a lawyer rather than a surgeon.

By the same token a person who gets sea sick might consider becoming a teacher rather than a sailor.

Therefore why would someone who suffers from air sickness want to become a pilot?

There is something rather illogical there and furthermore he wants to become a COMBAT pilot pulling 5 - 6 g etc and perform serious combat aerobatics mmmmh?? := :rolleyes:

[HOCHWALDSPRUDEL]

Well...that is NORMAL to get sick if s.o. does a 60°-turn with you!....I was sick too when I did my first flight. The instructor made a 60°-turn with me-this idiot.....wanted to show me how good he is....well....after the flight, I wasn't so sure anymore if I should become a pilot!!!!

But I continued and avoided 60°-turns....for quiet a while....later it became better....after I received my PPL and a year later, when I was studying for ATPL, I made my acrobatic flight rating. I went there every day. The first 3 days I WAS SICK AS hell....20 minutes of up-side down, loops and turns....happy to be on ground again...sick, sick sick....close to vomit!!!!

I couldn't do more than one flight per day....the 3rd day I did 2 20minutes flights, with 2 hours rest in between....SICK; SICK; SICK.......THEN CAME THE FOURTH DAY....I actually wanted to stop my acrobatic flight training.....I was depressed about my air sickness.....BUT ON THE FOURTH DAY.....oh WONDER...IT WAS ALL GONE...NO AIR SICKNESS ANYMORE!!! It just disappeared completely.....and suddenly...aerobatics started and turned out to be fun!!!!!

SO....it is all JUST TRAINING!!! One needs 4 days...the other a week.....or yet another a months.....but it has to be practised every day.....if you have once overcome the sickness, a flight once per months or once all 3 months is sufficient (depends on the individual) to resist air sickness (concerning sickness when doing aerobatics!!!). I now haven't done aerobatics for 2 years...so I think...the first 3 days I would feel terrible ill again.
HEADS UP!!!! SHOW IT THOSE IDIOTIC FLIGHT INSTRUCTORS!!!!

AND GOOD LUCK!!!

[Flyin'Dutch']

I also felt horrible after a stall (the instructor simulated it), when he closed the gas and it felt like the plane was falling or something, it was a weird feeling but I got sick of that..

Tiime for a bit of a reality check. Mark if you would have to select someone for a course which is going to involve a lot more of that, and more intense than what you got exposed to so far, would you choose the nice chap who after getting back said 'can we have some more of that please' or the equally nice and able chap who has just barfed his guts out?

[noisy]

Mark, you can overcome airsickness, but it boils down to how much of your own money you are prepared to spend.

Good Luck,

N

[MercenaryAli]

Become a lawyer - it pays more and you don't have to fly an airplane and get sick!!

[PPRuNeUser0172]

Become a pilot then you dont have to be a lying, sanctimonious sh!t, who would sell his/her own mother.

Cant beat the view from the "office". There are only two types of people in life, those who are pilots and those who want to be.

Regards;)

PS there is a lot more to life than money, In fact I would pay to do my job.:p

[KYT]

Mark G

Do not write the letter until you have done something to alleviate the problems you are having. If you can get on a desensitising course, great! (Do not confuse with a fear of flying course - I'm sure you wouldn't.) Or, do some light aircraft flying - 10 hours? - and see how it goes. If all is well, write the letter and say that the problem has been cured and explain how. Without either of the above the reply from the RDAF(?) will be a 'Sorry, no thanks'.

[zorrotfb]

To those that suggest an alternative career because of airsickness get a grip. I remember being sick on EoC 1 but it soon passes. As for aeros well that really made me reach for the bag but a week spent on a Hawk TWU including gunnery range trips made anything I did subsequently in a Bulldog fine.

Desensitizing works.

[MarkG]

Thanks for the reply's, keep 'm coming. I'm waiting for a reply from the Airforce on my letter now..