CASA considers night helicopter flights review

[Heliport]

ABC News online CASA considers night helicopter flights review

The Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) says it is prepared to review night flying rules for helicopters.

A recent report shows Queensland's community-based rescue choppers have the highest accident rate in the country, with three of the four most recent accidents happening when pilots were flying under night visual flight rules.

CASA spokesman Peter Gibson says the rules are a compromise between full instrument flying, which is expensive, and not allowing pilots to fly after dark.

"It has involved extra training for the pilots [and] some extra instruments in the aircraft, but it's not as expensive to undertake as full instrument flying," he said.

"So it fulfils a very important purpose to allow aircraft and pilots to fly at night when the conditions are suitable at a lower cost that if they were flying fully by instruments."

What's the background this?
There's been nothing in this forum to suggest there's a problem.
Justified or over-reaction?
Politics?
:confused:

[Gomer Pylot]

Why is flying instruments expensive? It's certainly cheaper than crashing, and if you're flying in the dark without adequate instrumentation, you're going to crash sooner or later.

[Texdoc]

Hi Heliport,

Might be worth merging the thread with the QLD EMS Accident thread where I have posted three of the four EMS accident report links.

Only two of those involved NVFR (Another I could not find). One of which was CFIT under NVFR (Swain Reefs) The accident at Marlborough was NVFR but had a main contributing factor of Fog... IMC? and fuel.

Is NVFR going IMC really problem with NVFR? If so it would beg the question that VFR (like NVFR) would need 'consideration' every time a VFR flight went IMC.

Of course I do not know if they are refering to other accidents or incidents, at least none I could find, but with true journalistic licence I think the history is most likely represented in the report itself "CASA is PREPARED..." that probably being in answer to a question like " Will the CASA look into NVFR rules?"

CASA "Considering" was no doubt a response to them being asked if they were...at which time, of course, they then would be.

[deeper]

As far as i can recall,

Surf Rescue VFR Bell 206 falls out of the bottom of a cloud on a rainy day over Ryde Bridge killing the crewman and the pregnant passenger on a hospital transfer.

A VFR Bell 206 Longranger Rescue Helicopter crashes at night into the water off the Mornington Peninsular low level in heavy rain. Non fatal. Very expensive.

NSW based VFR Dauphin FA365C-1 crashes in fog retrieving a dead body. Very interesting story.

Polair AS355 lands on a rock, (winch inoperative ??), tail to the ocean, to retrieve a fisherman gets hit by three "freak" waves, winched out by Kamov. Very expensive.

Polair BK117, same pilot as above, on way to rescue, crewman lets cable with rescue collar out door, (inadvertantly), taking out bits of blades, crashes into the water off Balmoral beach. Non fatal, very expensive.

Surf Rescue VFR Bell 206 Longranger flies into the ground at night on Frazer Island in heavy rain. Non fatal. Very expensive.

Capricorn Helicopter Rescue Bell 206 Longranger oxygen bottle explosion destroys aircraft. Non fatal. Very expensive.

Capricorn Helicopter Rescue VFR Bell 206 Longranger crashes in fog at night out of fuel, killing all five on board.

Capricorn Helicopter Rescue VFR Bell 407 crashes into the sea at night. Non fatal. Very expensive.

Jayrow Rescue AS350 Cross hire to Capricorn has tail rotor strike during rescue. Non fatal.

Mackay based VFR Bell 407 rescue helicopter crashes into sea at night enroute to Hamilton Island. 3 Fatal.



:ugh: :ugh:

[John Eacott]

Deeper,

Not too sure what a lot of those accidents have to do with NVFR?

FWIW, there are a couple of glaring errors in those that I know of:

Bell LongRanger at Mornington Peninsular, rain wasn't an issue (nor present...)
Polair AS355, daytime.
Polair BK117, daytime. Nothing to do with the winch, but the engine bay doors opened in flight when slowing down from the cruise. Maybe a lack of preflight?
Capricorn O2 bottle: nothing to do with NVFR.
Jayrow AS350, daytime.

[Nigel Osborn]

John

I think in those ones you list, there were no fatalities whereas in all the night ones there were. In each case the night ones had no mechanical problems I believe, only pilot problems in limited night equipped machines.

[tolipZO]

Its ironic during training you are taught to be on the constant lookout for a landing area so as to:
A. Save your life and the aircraft and
B. so you dont kill anyone on the ground.
Then you go out at night and if you have a need to auto to the ground, the dark patch your aiming for may well be an oval or maybe a school, factory or any other large building with its lights off or have power lines masts and whatever else.
I am against NVFR it goes against all human logic, although the cities do look nice from above at night. Industry pressure is always there and rules are always bent, NVFR just increases the stakes to get a job done on the cheap. Hey what the heck, theres plenty of pilots to fill the vacancy when the insurance replaces the lost aircraft.

Ban it CASA. do something right for a change.

[flymech]

Any thoughts on nvfr over water or night MPT ops?

tolipzo
I agree with you ...nvfr is a cheap option....customers should be paying more....esp...mpt in QLD......where the coal industry is main user

[deeper]

John,

I marked the NVFR ones.

Mornington Peninsular was a long time ago in my memory that's why I said, "as far as I recall".

It did fly into the ground on a very dark night, please delete any reference to rain.

Polair on the rocks, a case of very "freaky" bad management.

I don't care what PL said, the fact is that the only part of the aircraft not recovered was the rescue collar and the end of the cable, they had a habit of playing the cable out in the cabin on the way. I inspected the wreck and all the cowl buttons were done up. Excuses Excuses.

I only listed the rest because they happened. I did not mean to infer they were all at night.

The problem, as Nigel points out, is with NVFR pilots in NVFR aircraft flying in IMC. That is black night navigating without the assistance of visual reference to the ground or water. Bad descision. Pilots flying beyond their, and their aircrafts, capabilities.


:*

[PO dust devil]

Did NVFR have anything to do with the circumstances of the fatal MPT crash at Gladstone a few years ago or the MPT NVFR crash out of East Intercourse Island five or so ago? I can only vaguely recall all those details.

I can think of another MPT NVFR crash of an otherwise serviceable IFR capable Puma approaching an LNG tanker near Dampier as well.

So that's three more NVFR accidents that I can toss in off the top of my head.

What's so wrong with our industry, just not operating routinely in such marginal conditions. You can't (or are unwise to), bowl around in poor visibility, skirting in/out/around unseen cloud, without sight of the ground or water during day ops. So why is it commercially and insurably acceptable to do it at night.

If it's a matter of commercial imperative just think of some of the other ways to achieve tasks. You can't weld on a gas platform, You can't get a pub counter meal after 8pm, what's the drama with operators saying,"Sorry, these night VFR flights have proven to be dodgy and we like having you as clients so we WON'T put you at risk. I'm sure you, your family and connections, will appreciate this".

My two bob's worth

DD

[belly tank]

Lets just take a minute to reflect on what the NVFR was initially intended for?

I beleive it was intended for flights that departed in day VFR conditions and progressed into NVFR to get you home LEGALLY. be it for PVT, AWK or ferry flights back from those long days in the maintenace hangar where you dont leave untill late afternoon.

I originally obtained my NVFR for doing frost prevention on orchards and ok it may be legal but certainly not safe. ive only done ferry flights from maintenance back to base during winter which entails about a 50 minute flight of which about 35 mins is after last light.

I agree with the posts something should be done ie, getting back to its original intention it was meant for, again who are the main users of this NVFR, of course the Medical services so if you cant go NVFR send an IFR machine or make all Aero Med night missions IFR.

Just my opinion and those of you in the EMS world im sure would have a better point of view.

Cheers BT

[Ascend Charlie]

Deeper says "Polair had the habit of playing the cable out in the cabin while in transit."

Who the heck told you that? Transits at high speed to a search area were not done with the door open. And no crewman ever let the cable out into my cabin that I knew of. The horse collars were hung on the broom closet in the cabin, but only attached at the top, not gathered in by a strap or such. This caused a problem to the crewmen, because with the cabin under water, the collars floated and spread out, catching them as they tried to escape. Maps and other bits of paper were a similar obstruction under water. One crewy had his foot caught under the seat and both PL and the other crewy went back in to retrieve him.

The hoist itself was struck by the blades as the machine entered the water and rolled over - that is probably why it lost a few bits of metal as they sprayed debris over Balmoral Beach.

The engine cowls were involved in 4 other cases in the US of undoing themselves and departing through the disc.

And in your previous post, the surf 206 at Ryde bridge was at 0200 hrs and entered low cloud / fog. A sad case of pushing on when the Westmead hospital claimed they had no space. That machine had already experienced weather problems during its night transit from Mittagong. But it makes your point - NVFR can be really tricky.

[deeper]

Ascend Charlie,

The decision making process seems to be the main factor.

The pregnant passenger in the 206 at Ryde bridge was in an accident the previous day or days prior. she was in the care of nurses and doctors. An ambulance was available. The weather was marginal at best. The woman may have needed urgent medical treatment somewhere in Sydney. Who made the decision to fly?

[Ascend Charlie]

Who knows who decided to push on? Probably just the pilot, and he doesn't like to talk about this one. Very lucky to have landed in squishy mud - if they had not gotten disoriented and spun out of the fog, they might have cleaned up the 2GB mast further along track.

Another causal factor was the lack of IF training for the NVFR pilot, and minimal instrumentation.

A sad ending to this accident was the suicide of her husband who caused the car crash in the first place.

[deeper]

AC,

Sad it is, and the same circumstances seem to appear on all of our night related accidents.

A bit of both lack of descision making training and lack of instrument training.

Another sad fact is that highly trained crews in sophisticated aircraft, operating with high standard operating procedures and risk management, are now sitting idle because other organisations have never bothered to put such procedures in place and won't spend the money on pilot training.

Perhaps if the government, who runs a very good system, or a large private operator, was to put forward criteria for the hiring and trainig of pilots that private companies taking public monies have to adhere to, we might start a change in attitude and culture.

[flymech]

PO Devil says
Did NVFR have anything to do with the circumstances of the fatal MPT crash at Gladstone a few years ago or the MPT NVFR crash out of East Intercourse Island five or so ago? I can only vaguely recall all those details.


PO, I dnt think Nvfr hadany thing to do with Gladstone Mpt Accident...The vessels crew had extended crane, without pilots knowledge....aircraft contacted crane on takeoff.
Any more idea on Night Mpt esp on dark nights.

[imabell]

the ships crew had swung the crane out over the side so that the helicopter had room to land. just after take off the pilot of the 500 turned into the jib and went into the sea.:ugh:

[Ogsplash]

Was involved in the investigations of both MPT accidents. and others on top of that. I believe NVFR, or rather the training and equipping for night operations, are factors in many of these accidents.

My own personal belief is that we treat NVFR as a form of IFR rating with training and currency requirements and we have to start getting serious about night vision devices.

HAA is doing some good work on both these issues.

[helmet fire]

The NVFR rating is the only rating I can think of that does not require a renewal. to meet the requirement to demonstrate instrument proficiency and a take off without visual reference would, in my view, preclude the training and issue for NVFR in major cultural lighting areas unless a complete IF hood is also used.

Until we address the lack of instrument proficiency, and the need for regular reviews of the proficiency, we will continue to suffer these accidents, rotary and fixed wing.

But at least lets adopt NVG yesterday. oh...that broken record again!

[tolipZO]

Most Aircraft i have seen equiped for NVFR have the AH in the middle of the Instrument panel where as Full IFR AH's are in a sensible place infront of the pilot enabling a natural line of sight. You just cant sensibly fly on instruments unless you have an IFR rated aircraft. Anyone out there flown aircraft with the AH in the centre of the IP like an IFR Jetranger. Is it practical for long distance????

Once again comes down to cost. Hamilton islands 430 seems to do the trick and they compete with the others in the area. Is that due to some kind of subsidy or is it a fair competative business. If so then there is your answer:confused: if not then back to the drawing board.

Someone must have some influence on CASA to alow this to happen, if you outlaw something then there is no option than to abide. Im sure the shipping companies can afford to pay for the slight increase or they dont get into port.

Hmmm hope things change.:hmm:

[Shawn Coyle]

What's the definition of Night VFR?
I'll bet if you dig deep enough, it will have something to not only with visibility and cloud base, but also 'ability to orient the aircraft with respect to outside references' and something to do with navigation.
At night, outside of areas lit by cultural lighting, or very bright moonlight, you have no way to orient the aircraft (pitch, roll and yaw) and thus you really don't have VFR - do you?

[spinwing]

...Back in the "old days" when I was a "New Chum" (1976 ish?) I got my then Class IV instrument rating (ie Ngt VFR rating) in a helicopter that was REQUIRED to have ALL of the equipment necessary for instrument flight less the Autopilot ... ie A/H and Sby A/H, turn indicator etc etc .... it was also a requirement to "be able to navigate visually by reference to the ground lit by celestial illumination (or ground illumination). The a/c instruments were in case of INADVERTANT flight into IMC to enable safe return to VMC conditions ...... ergo if there was no "celestial illumination" etc YOU DID NOT FLY unless you could do so fully IFR. The Class IV WAS an instrument rating.

The rules were relaxed by DCA/???/???/CAA/CASA and I guess now the rules will need to be tightened!

As a result of the obvious sillyness of so called NGT VFR in remote areas I got myself fully instrument rated in 1978 (one of my smarter moves!) The reality of operational life is that you can NEVER be sure whats out there if you cant see it ...thus FULL IFR CAPABILITY is the only reliable way to go.

You can try to make "Strawberry Jam" outa goat dropping all you like ...but it just isn't going to taste right !!!!



;) ;)

[tolipZO]

From the HAA australia website

Night Accidents kill another 12!

The latest edition of Heli-News Australasia has an article indicating that nine were killed in three overseas SAR/EMS accidents since Christmas. Article is reproduced later in this newsletter.

However, since the April magazine went to press another 12 have been killed in night helicopter accidents which are briefly described in the following paragraphs.

Last eighteen months bad news!

If you add up the 24 killed as per HAI information, add the 12 above and our 8, then we have lost 44 that we know about in about eighteen months. Given there are less night hours flown than day, then the world industry has a real problem, if you look at the rate per 100,000 hours,

Hopefully, the HAA will find a better set of figures to support the coming night conference.


http://www.haa.net.au/news.htm[/URL]

[chalk one]

Spin wing is on target! There is a problem with current NVFR requirements.

But the solution of using NVGs is not practical because of the cost of equipping the aircraft, maintaining competency, and pilot duty times and fatigue issues when using NVGs. The military can do it safely as they have the numbers and the money. For the civvies, it’s strictly champagne taste on a beer budget!

[helmet fire]

Chalk one,
I disagree. The cost of achieving a military flight profile mission IS excessive, and I would agree with you there, but a civilian dose not need to transit below 200ft, fly and land in formation without a pad recce, use terrain masking or NOE, push all weathers and visibilities and illumination levels all whilst having a covert lighting system and someone trying to stop them.

The civvies need only fly at 200 to 500 ft. NVFR and IMC wx minima can apply. An illumination level can apply. Pads can be thoroughly recce's prior to landing, and most landings will be done to lit and prepared pads. Lighting is not as critical, and flood lighting can be employed in preference to individually illuminated expensive instruments.

No need for expensive mods, excessive training and currency to achieve this profile: thus practicallity is actually right up there in terms of benefit.

[CockpitJunkie]

There are some changes proposed for helicopter Night VFR.

You could ring CASA Flight Crew Licensing in Canberra and get the gen from them (would do it but don't have time at the moment).

WOuld be interested in what it is if can be posted here.

[katismo]

Check what we need in Europe at night HEMS. 1 Class Performance helicopters and two pilot's or one IFR-pilot and Flight Attendtant.
Still we are flying approx. 10 minutes VFR-flights. Is that safety or not.:8