SA-330 & AS-332 airframe differences question

[hotzenplotz]

I’m interested to learn what the differences of the airframe are, between the SA-330 Puma and the AS-332 Super Puma.

I know the SA-330 Puma was developed for the French Army.
The AS-332 Super Puma was designed for the civilian market.
At the airframe significant changes were made. So the two types only have a similar outward appearance.

I’m interested in material, construction, armour, weight…

I hope somebody can help me.

Regards…

[HeliEng]

hotzenplotz,

It depends what you mean by an AS332. If you mean a AS332-C then there is essentially no difference. If you mean a AS332-L then to my knowledge the only difference is the plug, which makes the airframe longer.
The major differences are mechanical, head, gearbox, engines etc...
If you mean an AS332-L2 then there is a difference. The intermediate structure on the L2 is completely different. It is Composite for a start, and is just short of a metre longer than on the previous 332's. Also the tailboom is just under half a metre shorter than the 332L's.

Sorry to ramble, but structurally that's all I've got!


Hope that goes someway to helping





"Mad as a mooing fish"

[Chopper Jog]

Hallo there,

The main difference between the two helicopters is that the 332 has a different undercarriage that allows a maximum take off weight of 8600kgs (18600lbs), where the 330 has a 7400kgs (16280lbs).

Picture of 330J:
http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/webphoto/web_041120-N-6363M-036.jpg

http://www.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=19158

330J Stats:

AIRCRAFT TYPE : Puma SA - 330J
Manufacture : Aerospatiale 1974

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

POWER PLANT
Power Plant : 2 Turmo IV.C Turbomeca 1558 Hp Each
Take Off Power : 1494 SHP
Max. Contingengy Power : 1262 SHP

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SPECIFICATIONS
Seating Capacity : 3 Cockpit + 17 Seat (airline), 18 Seat (troop)
Litter Capacity : 6 Litter
Avarage Cruise Speed : 120 Kts
Speed with Slung Load : 40 -100 Kts
Max. Speed (VNE) : 167 Kts
Fuel Consumption : 660 Ltr/hr
Fuel Capacity : Internal Tank : 1550 Ltr
External Tank : 700 Ltr
Ferry Tank (1) : 475 Ltr
Max. Range (15' Reserve) : 379 Nm / 703 Km
Ceiling (T/O & Landing) : 13000 ft
Ceiling (Inflight) : 16500 ft
Max. Rate of Climb : 1200 ft/min
Click here to see seating capacity

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DIMENSIONS
Rotor Blades : 4 Fully Artriculated
Fuselage Length : 14.82 M
Overall Length : 18.2 M
Fuselage Width : 3.0 M
Overall Height : 5.14 M
Main Rotor Diameter : 15.09 M
Tail Rotor Clearance : 1.83 M
Cabin Doors Dimension : 1.35 M x 1.35 M

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LOADING INFORMATION
Max. Gross Weight : 7400 Kg / 16300 Lb
Empty Weight - Std : 4240 Kg / 9346 Lb
Usefuel Load - Int : 3160 Kg / 6964 Lb
Usefuel Load - Ext : 3260 Kg / 7185 Lb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HELIPAD SIZE
Size : 20 x 20 M
(Fato : 27.3 x 27.3 M )
Minimum Strenght : 11.100 Kg



Picture 332C:
http://www.pelita-aircharter.com/images/super_puma_NAS-332c_big.jpg

http://www.pelita-aircharter.com/spumanas-332c.html

332 Stats:

AIRCRAFT TYPE : Super Puma AS 332 C
Manufacture : Aerospatiale - IPTN 1983

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

POWER PLANT
Power Plant : 2 Makila 1A. Turbomeca 1756 Hp Each
Take Off Power : 1662 SHP
Max. Contingengy Power : 1515 SHP

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SPECIFICATIONS
Seating Capacity : 3 Cockpit + 17 Seat(airline),
18 Seat (troop)
Litter Capacity : 6 Litter
Avarage Cruise Speed : 130 Kts
Speed with Slung Load : 40 -80 Kts
Max. Speed (VNE) : 150 Kts (WT > 8350 Kg)
167 Kts (WT < 8350 Kg)
Fuel Consumption : 600 Ltr/hr
Fuel Capacity : Internal Tank : 1880 Ltr
External Tank : 700 Ltr
Ferry Tank (1) : 475 Ltr
Max. Range (15' Reserve) : 487 Nm / 904 Km
Ceiling (T/O & Landing) : 15000 ft (WT < 8350 Kg)
4000 ft (WT >8350 Kg)
Ceiling (Inflight) : 20000 ft (WT < 8350 Kg)
9500 ft (WT > 8350 Kg)
Max. Rate of Climb : 1889 ft/min
Click here to see seating capacity

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DIMENSIONS
Rotor Blades : 4 Fully Artriculated
Fuselage Length : 15.53 M
Overall Length : 18.7 M
Fuselage Width : 3.380 M
Overall Height : 4.94 M
Main Rotor Diameter : 15.6 M
Tail Rotor Clearance : 1.90 M
Cabin Doors Dimension : 1.35 M x 1.35 M
Click here to see the three view drawing

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LOADING INFORMATION
Max. Gross Weight : 8600 Kg / 18900 Lb
Empty Weight - Std : 4872 Kg / 10738 Lb
Usefuel Load - Int : 3728 Kg / 8216 Lb
Usefuel Load - Ext : 4478 Kg / 9869 Lb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HELIPAD SIZE
Size : 20 x 20 M
(Fato : 27.3 x 27.3 M )
Minimum Strenght : 12.900 Kg

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is additional data on the AS332L:

http://www.eurocopter.com/jf_z0117.ht

[ShyTorque]

The 332 had a longer fuselage (1 metre?) ahead of the mast and to compensate for the reduced stability in yaw this gave, the lower tail fairing was fitted. There is a strong yaw / roll coupling / possible divergence problem even on the type 330 so this had to be carefully considered - it got even worse when the original open engine intakes were covered by the "PIP" intakes, putting more aerodynamic area above and ahead of the relevant roll / yaw axes. Those yaw /roll divergence demos we had to give always had the possibility of becoming a "bum clencher".

The earlier military 330s (RAF ones) had a Turmo 111C-4 rather than the 4C, I recall it was only about 1320 shp (sure someone with more recent experience can correct me if needed). How we used to love explaining about the function of the delta-P valve to students on the OCU course and how "balls out" really did mean that, due to the simple centrifugal mechanical governor...

The stuctural materials were / are mainly metal despite the jibes we got about the "Plastic Pig". Nose bay panel and the big MGB "dog kennel" cowling were composite apart from a few prototypes in metal. The main rotor blades were metal sparred too, later upgraded to composite fibre and what a transformation they gave!

[widgeon]

Were the puma/gazelle/lynx programs part of an "entente cordiale" between Westlands and Aerospat ?. Surprised it was never followed up with anything . Are the french still flying Lynx?.

[drakkar]

You might compare these two ships with a BMW 3 series and a 5 series. Looks like a close family but when opening the cowlings it's very different. In fact it's an other generation, 80% of the parts are different, undercarriage, engines, main and rear transmission, blades. Just remember that the SA 330B and later L and J model is a 1961 design for a first delivery to army aviation and RAF in 1969, the super puma is a 1980 generation designed for the civilian market. There is an ugly version of the puma with a huge fenestron that has flown mid 1975 and an other with a self motorized main gear with 4 wheels, designed to be parked into trees area (camouflage).

Regards

[Hippolite]

Comments relate to fuselage not mechanicals


330 J to 332 C = almost no diference except strake under vertical pylon for yaw stability

330J to 332 L 1 meter (ish) plug behind cockpit making longer fuselage with starke as above

330J to 332 L2 As above but with composite 4 foot plug behind cabin and before tailboom.

EC225 has same fuselage as 332L2

Many many mecahincal and electronic differences between models.

Can post more details if you like

HH:cool:

[hotzenplotz]

Thank you for your support.

Due to an advertisement of the French army aviator forces from the year 1961 the company Aerospatiale developed the SA-330Puma (first flight: 15.April 1965), whose series delivery began for the French armed forces in the same year. On the basis of the British-French helicopter agreement this model was manufactured (Westland) for the Rojal Air Force, in an modified form starting from 1970.
1974 started Aerospatiale the development of the improved AS-332 Super Puma, which was primarily aimed at the civilian market. The first flight of the version Mk.I took place at the 13.September 1978, that one of the version Mk.II on 6 February 1987. The super Puma exhibits only a certain outside similarity with its predecessor, the cell was however fundamentally changed.
The AS-532 Cougar developed further as militarized version of the AS-332 super Puma and be based thus constructionally on a civilian helicopter. Cougar and super Puma are offered in the two variants Mk.I (with short trunk) and Mk.II (with extended trunk). By those in principle „civilian “interpretation must however with the military employment disadvantages in the range of survivability in purchase be taken among other things. Different re-fittings can thereby only create limited remedy.

This Text is about the evaluation of the AS-532 Mk.I for the Austrian Army in the late 90’s.
The Blackhawk S-70A (UH-60L) was chosen. They said that the airframe of AS-532 Mk.I was not optimized for military tasks, because the airframe was originally developed for the civilian market.

My question is what are the differences in a civilian and a military airframe.


SA-330 A: Prototypes, originally called "Alouette IV".
SA-330 B: Initial production version.
SA-330 "Orchidee" surveillance system for the French Army
SA-330 C: Initial export production version.
SA-330 E: Version produced by Westland Helicopters for the RAF under the designation HC Mk 1.
SA-330 F: Initial civilian export production version with Turbomeca Turmo IIIC4 turboshaft engines.
SA-330 G: Upgraded civilian version with Turbomeca Turmo IVC engines and composite main rotor blades.
SA-330 H: Upgraded French Army and export version with Turbomeca IVC engines and composite main rotor blades.
SA-330 L: Upgraded version for so-called "hot and high" conditions.
SA-330 Z: Prototype with "fenestron" tail rotor.

AS-332 B Super Puma: 1981; delivered to Argentinia
AS-332 B-1 Super Puma: 1986
AS-332 C-1 Super Puma: ordered by Greek navy
AS-332 B-1 Super Puma: 1986
AS-332 F Super Puma: delivered to Chile, France, Portugal
AS-332 F-1 Super Puma
AS-332 L Super Puma
AS-332 L-1 Super Puma
AS-332 L-2 Super Puma: 1992 to Bristow Helicopters
AS-332 M Super Puma: 1981; delivered to Spanish air force
AS-332 M-1 Super Puma: 1986
EC-225 first flight 11/2000; developed from the AS 332
Hkp 10 Super Puma: in Swedish service since 1988

AS-532 A-2 Cougar Mk. II: military armed transport
AS-532 A-2 Cougar Mk. II RESCO: French army SAR helicopter
AS-532 AC Cougar Mk. I: armed transport; ordered by Greek
AS-532 AL Cougar Mk. I: armed transport 1986
AS-532 MC Cougar Mk. II: tactical; SAR 1992
AS-532 SC Cougar Mk. I: shipborne
AS-532 U2 Cougar Mk. II: Saudi Arabia
AS-532 UB Cougar 100: shorter version, to Brasil
AS-532 UC Cougar Mk. I : tactical transport
AS-532 UE Cougar Mk. I: project cancelled/suspended
AS-532 UL CougarMk. I: 1994 to France; 1996 to Spain
AS-532 UL Cougar HORIZON: battlefield surveillance
AS-532 Cougar Mk. I: ordered by Brazil
EC-725: first flight 11/2000; armed EC 225

[Hippolite]

What about the SA330 J model, its not in your list and was the most extensively used civilian model, certainly as far as oil operations were concerned.

The first AS332L was delivered to Bristow in April 1982 and first flew commercially in that month for the then Britoil company. Thistle A was the platform.

The 332L2 was NOT delivered to Bristow in 1992, it was late and Bristow cancelled the whole order. The first one went to Helikopter Service if I remember correctly, followed by some to SFC in Vietnam.

In fact, other than the Jigsaw aircraft, the only 332L2s operated by Bristow are through Norsk in Norway.

HH:cool: