Aer Arann News and Rumours!

[WOWBOY]

Does anyone have any news or rumours about Aer Arann?

[glynn-kayes]

are to pull off bhd to ork after jet2 start a far superior bfs ork jet sevice

[cuthere]

.....and BHD and LDY will close, EI will move out of DUB to BFS and there will be a twice-daily flight from BFS to the moon, starting in September to compliment the 10 times a day flight from BFS to New York. Gylnn, if you have nothing constructive to say with regards the topic, save your energy and say nothing.

WOW boy. I haven't heard any new rumours about Aer Arann, but I'd imagine any new major expansion would require fleet expansion too. So maybe that'll be their next step.

[Buster the Bear]

Why only a single ATR-72 rotation per day for summer 05 from Luton to both Waterford and Galway?

Last year there was a double daily ATR-72 to both and with good loads?

http://whipsnade.co.uk/picturelibrary/jpeg150/br/brown_bear_120_wide.jpg

[Powerjet1]

The winter schedule ex LTN continues into the summer with double daily LTN-GWY on Tu, Wed & Sat. Daily to WAT.

The twice daily service to both GWY & WAT last summer was very well supported with loads around 80% or more on nearly all flights. Reasons for the change at the moment, not known, although sources indicate that consideration to reinstate the twice daily, seven days a week, is under review for the period mid-may to mid-sept. Decision not likely to be taken until early march.

[glynn-kayes]

Excuse Cuthere,I thought my post was construtive as I pointed out that jet2 would start a jet service to Cork.Instead of a 1130 and and 1700 which does nothing for business also.So please do not pontificate against me.

Edit: We do not allow disguised swearing or abuse.

PPP

[EI-WAT]

If you read the small print on the aer arann website you'll see that the timetables are only valid until the end of march. This means there will be a whole new timetable for the summer months. Routes from Waterford are supposed to increase dramitacially this summer.

Regards
EI-WAT

[neidin]

I guess alot depends on what happens with the Irish PSO route subsidies. Aer Arann gets approx EURO 19m annually for operating a few flights to GWY, NOC, KIR, SXL and CFN. That must make a huge contribution and has really been what created the airline. The tenders for these routes start next week and the Govt. decision will be in April 2005. RE would be foolish to make too many commitments for 05 when it cannot be sure what if any services it will regain under these PSO's. BA, CityJet/AirFrance and others are being actively courted by the Irish Govt. to bid. Many of their ATR's are 20 years old now and getting very scruffy. I am sure they will wait until May 05 before settling things.

[EI-WAT]

Many of their ATR's are 20 years old now and getting very scruffy

I think you maybe wrong there. All the 72's were built 10 years ago or less, while EI-BYO seems to be the only one getting on in age.

EI-REA Built 1995
EI-REB Built 1995
EI-REE Built 1993
EI-CVR Built 1990


Regards
EI-WAT

[Oshkosh George]

Don't know where your "facts" came from,but

EI-BYO built 11-89
EI-CVR built 07-86
EI-CVS built 12-86

All irrelevant to me-----if the price , convenience and safety is right,nothing else matters.

[EI-WAT]

I wont be visiting that website for information again. thanks for that oshkosh

[EIDW Spotter]

Will we see Aer Arann in the near future ordering any members of the Embraer or Canadair regional Jet family?

There was rumours a while back that the were looking into starting TA services from Cork.

Would they not be better off starting to fly the smaller jets first, before taking the big step of investing in Med/Long haul fleets.

[Tower Ranger]

Could Aer Arann be about to nightstop a/c at BHD and expand beyond the twice daily CRK??

[FlyCorkInternational]

Through contacts with CCI in france - seems RE are in discussions with Brest for a daily service to Cork from May

[metalboymike]

What about some expansion from Aer Arann at Knock I heard that their Liverpool flight is doing very well.
And its always good an Irish Airline fly in the Airport

[runawayedge]

don't believe everything you hear!

[Tom the Tenor]

Aer Arann have today been hiring in the Eirjet A320 and also, I believe, a Denim Air Fokker 50 to cover for some of their flights.

At the same time ATR-72 EI-REA has been parked up at Cork since at least Sunday morning. The props are also tied up but that is understandable in the windy conditions.

What about the other ATR-72s - are they flying today? Could not resist having a look at the Eirjet A320 flying off today as the RE628 and the remainder of the Aer Arann flights in the late afternoon were operated by ATR-42s, RE631, RE303, RE454 and the RE from Edinburgh. Some of these flights would normally be flown by ATR-72 equipment.

[st.elmo]

Well looks like RE are in for a rough day tomorrow again with the cancellation of all flights to GWY - SXL - NOC - CFN - KIR. ORK are the only ones which seem to be unchanged as of yet.

Winds are expected to reach gusts of 100mph at times. West coast will experience the worst of it.

[Tom the Tenor]

The Eirjet A320 returned to Shannon from Cork about an hour ago after operating up to ten movements for Aer Arann today.

One of the DUB-ORK A320 flights earlier in the evening also accomodated the DUB-KIR passengers. Why?

Now, we hear that a huge amount of tomorrow's flying programme for Aer Arann is cancelled due to weather. Yet, Cork to Dublin and Cork to Birmingham is due to fly as normal? Apart from that little of the flying programme remains?

Why was the A320 hired into service today? Hardly tomorrow's weather?

Has anyone seen an Aer Arann ATR-72 fly today or yesterday?

[neidin]

Tom - you are hitting the nail on the head as always Sir. Well spotted and passed on. Time will tell a tale on this one.

[The 5Q]

One operated WAT LTN yesterday but a good bit behind schedule.

[DW11]

REA is awaiting parts (believe it's a windscreen). The Denim Fk50 I'm told is covering maintenance of an ATR in Dinard.

[Maxiumus]

According to a mate in Arann, they have had up to 6 or 7 of the 10 aircraft u/s over the last few days. They have also lost their Part 145 maintenance approval for not seeking IAA permission to ferry a tech aircraft to Toulouse.

[Tom the Tenor]

A Perfect Storm!?

What is the status of the remaining DUB-ORK flights today?

RE402 BHX-ORK diverted to Dublin this morning.

Currently at Cork are both AT7s, EI-REA and EI-REE as is AT4 EI-BYO.

[ATRGUY]

They lost their JAR145 for more than that. I am one of many who applied for their maintennace positions but got messed around. A long time since anyone lost their JAR145 in Ireland. Hope the new management will sort it out. Is it really true that they get EURO 19 million form irish govt. to operate. How can they not afford proper management. Huge money. No JAR145 - how can they still fly? Must cost a fortune.

[Irish Steve]

From comments I've heard "inside", several aircraft were damaged over the weekend when the last storm went through.

Control surfaces and things like that, which given the wind gust strength is not altogether surprising. The WX here in Ireland today has been sufficiently nasty that I am glad I was not having to commit aviation in it, and I am sure that Aer Arran were not being alarmist when they canned many of the regionals today.

The runways and approach aids at some of the regionals are not in the same league as the major airports, and whatever the truth may be about JAR145 status, there's no fun at all in having to make even minor repairs of any sort to an airframe that's outdoors at an outstation in a violent storm 11, which is what was forecast for Western Ireland today. That's assuming an engineer can get to the regional through the floods and or blocked roads that have happened as a result of said weather.

To add to that hassle, how many small regionals have any sort of facility to tie down an ATR. If EI can get 2 x A330's damaged at DUB by the wind, it's not hard to imagine the potential for serious damage to an airframe that's parked out in the open with no real protection or building shelter, and not much in the way of ramp staff or anything else to work on protecting it or moving it, or anything else. At least at somewhere like DUB, if the WX gets too severe, there's a tug and bar available to move the aircraft to another location, even if it's only a stand somewhere else that's more into wind, or sheltered by a big building or hangar.

At somewhere like Sligo, moving it somewhere else is going to be a serious issue if the only way to move it is to start the engines and taxi the aircraft, as that's also going to require crew or an engineer to do it, and if the aircraft has been stopped for WX reasons, there's a good chance the crew may not be at the airport, in order to comply with duty time limitations and the like.

And No, before someone asks or accuses, I don't work for Aer Arran, but a few years ago, I did a lot of preparatory work on a possible operation for someone else in that part of the world, and these are the realities that have to be factored in to the equation if you want to survive.

[Lee Majors]

Thank you for those Comments, obviously you are Aer Arann management!

I know for a fact that Aer Arann has lost their 145 line maintenance due to SEVERAL factors of poor maintenance.

EI-RED was given a dispenation by the C.P. to ferry this 'Grounded' aircraft to Dinard and guess who flew it? yes, the fleet manager!

And is he going to be a sorry boy now!!

[neidin]

..

[ATRGUY]

Speak with friend at Toulouse. RE now being run Conor McCarthy ex FR and Air Asia. He run bank and ATR safety. How can operate with no JAR? Do the cancel more flts. Do they make EURO19m from Irlande Ministre. How no safe JAR with EURO 19m. Are there now jobs RE in Irlande? Anyone in Irlande tell us grit truth. How fly Donegal, Southmapton no JAR.

[terrier21]

Has anyone heard any rumours about RE and BRS for the coming season?

[Irish Steve]

Lee Majors,Thank you for those Comments, obviously you are Aer Arann management!

I wish!!!! It would certainly pay better than what I'm doing at the moment!;)

If you look at my profile, or at the messages I've posted over the last 12 months, you might get some clues as to the last job I was doing at the airport.

For what it's worth, at the moment, I'm not even working in the aviation industry, though if the Labour court finds in my favour, that might change again at some stage in the future.

I do know a bit about the subject though, and I did a lot of work a few years ago preparing a whole range of things for a company that was planning to do what Aer Arran some time later. They too were going to operate from an airfield in the West of Ireland, and they too were going to use ATR's. To get it right, I had to make sure that I knew where the problems could be, and how we were going to solve them.

I've posted my original comments because I am more than a little sick of seeing constant knocks against some of the local airlines, they do the best they can with not a lot of real help from a number of directions, and I for one think that if certain operators were no longer around, that would NOT be good for Irish aviation, it's been abused enough over the last 10 years as it is. There are certain aspects of the regulatory side that are :mad: , [Rant on] There are some aspects of the operational side of Irish Aviation that are not a lot better, but that's a subject for another thread if the Government ever gets off the fence on several issues like DUB terminal 2, and the real future of Aer Lingus. [Rant off]

[Flame]

Gentlemen (and Ladies)

Not wanting to be raising alarms..but my information says that Aer Arann are in serious trouble with the IAA about maintenance procedures

All RE flights today (11/1) were cancelled, according to the company because of the weather affecting the UK and Ireland, but if that really was the case..why did the weather only affect Aer Arann flights.

At Dublin today only one 42 was sitting on the ramp, and from what I hear a few machines have been flown to Shannon, possibly going into the SRS hanger

Now, I may be wrong in all this (and I hope so)..but my bet is that a lot more about this situation will appear in the next few days

[eastern wiseguy]

The runways and approach aids at some of the regionals are not in the same league as the major airports


Quite right ...move to BFS without delay!!:E :E

[Tom the Tenor]

I like Aer Arann, they have been great for Cork providing flights and jobs. They make money hand over fist from the Cork to Dublin service alone never mind the sizeable sum they must take in via the PSO subsidy. Good luck to them at that, it is all above board to make loads of money, I wish I could! However, the PSO subsidy comes from our tax euro and Aer Arann managers now need to explain themselves to their inconvenienced customers and the European Union taxpayer alike.

JAR 145 is serious stuff. A friend of ours travels all the time on ORK-DUB, and I sure as hell want to know that on her next trip RE are going to be despatching a serviceable aeroplane.

Time to come clean on this matter.

[neidin]

They have lost the JAR145 and cannot easily get anyone to service the ATR's. It is a mess. Complete mess. Amazing.

[ALLMCC]

Could those nice people at Flybe Engineering not undertake service work for them?

Eastern Wiseguy

Sorry, didn't realise BFS was a "major airport" - maybe Irish Steve was referring to BFS in his quote!

[eastern wiseguy]

allmcc....I thought you weren't speaking!!:p


As to Aer Arran ...perhaps you should be asking Harbour why they were unable to remain open for the ORK service the other evening ...which diverted to BFS... subsequently went tech and had to have a new aircraft flown in the next day to shift their punters to ORK!! .I would suggest that a B733 of Jet2 would appear to have a greater reliability ......I know which I would choose......anyways ..I won't keep you I am sure you must have an anorak to iron !!

[Tom the Tenor]

RE operations appear more normal again today. Walking the dogs around 8 am this morning two ATRs came out off runway 35 at Cork. They must have been the Birmingham flight and a run to Dublin. Even the broken down ATR-72, EI-REA, has been flying again today too.

Looks like they are getting themselves sorted. JAR 145 restored yet?

[Tom the Tenor]

Another little update. As I type there is an Aer Arann ATR-72 up doing circuits to runway 35 at Cork.

That's the spirit!

[CCR]

Tom the Tenor, Aer Arann do not earn PSO subsidies from the govt for flights from Cork to Dublin and Belfast. They only earn the PSO subsidies ex-Dublin to the Regional airports in Ireland.
Expect much reduced subsidies announced this year...

[MarkD]

There's a lot of talk about cross-subsidies etc. but that can apply any time anything is subsidised. Should Loganair have PSOs thrown at them about UK services when they have 1 PSO route from Derry?

If Air Wales have their act together they could bid for the PSOs this time (same equipment after all) - Arran held up the Dept to ransom a few years back so some competition would save the taxpayers a few bob.

[Cyrano]

Mark:

Watch this space. I would expect a good deal more competition for RE in the imminent round of PSO bids.

[eoinok]

Going to be interesting how this whole PSO thing goes for RE.

I can picture it now "RE announced today the loss of 100 Irish jobs (wild guess!!) due to their failure to win PSO subsidies given to regional airlines that operate regional routes on behalf of the goverment. This has forced them to withdraw service on x amounts of routes. An RE spokesman said that the awarding of the PSO to BRITISH airways/ Air FRANCE/Fly BRITISH European etc has meant we have had to make 100 Irish people redundant"

Would be a political nightmare for Fianna F. Dont know if there is any elections both local etc coming up but it could be disastorous.
It would be seen as Irish jobs going to a foreign company.

Now, if Willie Walsh and the lads were to setup their new airline soon and were to run for these they might have some chance but the deadline is may I think so it would be too soon. Anyway, I dont think regional services like this are in their "charter" so to speak.......

I've no doubt the government as TTT has already mentioned have invited airlines to tender for it but I would reckon that this is only to put the squeeze on RE and get a reduction on the 19 million.

Stranger things have happen but RE will not loose these subsidies.........

[neidin]

Sorry Eoin see where you are coming from but F. Fail - Irish ruling party does not care that much about Aer Arann. They let a highly rural farm produciton plant in Clonmel close today which is far more politically significant with more jobs and a greater impact. Aer Arann have tried hard but provided a poor service for last few months to the Irish regional airports.

Irish. Govt. ministers themselves use the service and I am sure they are not pleased. I have travelled to Galway, Derry and Kerry in last few weeks and the word locally is very bad for Aer Arann. The are getting slammed in the media in Derry and Kerry.

Now losing the JAR145 - well if that leaks to the national media - how can the Govt. defend Aer Arann. What a mess for an already troubled Irish Transport Minister. I think the Govt. may dump on Aer Arann quicker than you think. All they care about is their skins on the day.

RE tried hard but got carried away in the summer with mad cap ideas about flying to USA etc... My firends in old Aer Rianta Dublin reckon today that Irish Govt. is already working on contingnecy if Aer Arann continues non-performance over next few weeks. You have to admire RE spirit but losing the JAR!

[eoinok]

True as well I suppose nedin. And you had the beet factory in Carlow as well.

the JAR145 is serious alright. if the tabloids get hold of it, probably already have, then wait for a slow news day and we could have a screaming headline splashed across the front pages.

Fortunately/unfortunately this terrible tragedy down in Midleton will occupy the pages.

Still though, if Paddy power was quoting prices, RE would be odds on to keep the service, regardless of the dodgy goings on with them? Who knows what connections there is high up in RE and within the government?
Do the ministers and their family get special delas etc on RE services? or is it just be being naughty and trying to start something.....:8

[Tom the Tenor]

To the best of my information there were two AT4s and one AT7 at Shannon. Guess they were flown there? If so, wonder what the wind was like at the time?

Anyone know what day the aeroplanes were flown to Shannon?

[flyerz111]

The three aircraft were flown to Shannon on Tuesday, the day the airline cancelled all flights due to weather - clearly they have a different standard to other airlines with similar sized aircraft who at least attempted to fly their customers for as long as the weather would permit on Tuesday, or did they just want to save the cost of the Airbus and Foker leases?.

The three aircraft in Shannon seem to have gone into the SRS hangar (for cover in the storm?) and departed the next day (Wednesday) as RE401P (72), RE517 and RE603P (42s).

Is everything back to normal at Arran or is the guy put in by the IAA still there? How many of their own aircraft are now in service?

[ALLMCC]

Noticed from BHD arrivals today, that RE301 arrived late and came from Kerry - just wondered what happened?

[Tom the Tenor]

Fog and drizzle at Cork since this morning. An inbound RE from Dublin diverted to Kerry so the outbound BHD pax were bussed off there for the flight and later the RE402 from BHX also diverted off to Kerry too.

RVRs at Cork have varied all morning from about 250 metres to 900 metres! The FR901 from STN and the TOM275 from CVT both diverted to Shannon. Both would have had strong outbound loads for the Munster match at Twickenham tomorrow. The Loganair pax for Glasgow were bussed to Dublin for their short flight to Scotland. Guess they are still on the road now? Poor things! Not sure what is happening with the RE EDI flight. Don't think she had operated yet today.

Boy, do we need some kind of CAT III at Cork! If money is to be wasted it might as well be on something decent like good navaids for Cork. Something for the new Chief Executive to think about.

[gilesdavies]

Aer Arann are in negotiations to be launching services from Luton to Londonderry and Cork for the summer, the Cork service is rumoured to to twice daily.

Also heard rumours they may base an ATR-72 at Luton.

Giles

[piston pete]

I can picture it now "RE announced today the loss of 100 Irish jobs (wild guess!!) due to their failure to win PSO subsidies given to regional airlines that operate regional routes on behalf of the goverment. This has forced them to withdraw service on x amounts of routes. An RE spokesman said that the awarding of the PSO to BRITISH airways/ Air FRANCE/Fly BRITISH European etc has meant we have had to make 100 Irish people redundant"

Any 'Air FRANCE' services would be operated by CityJet - an IRISH airline, thus creating/keeping Irish jobs. We live in age of a deregulated European air market so BA, FlyBE or whoever have just as much right to the Irish PSOs as an Irish airline. Look at what Ryanair has done around Europe.

[MarkD]

Indeed piston pete.

Trying to restrict PSOs to Irish airlines would be one good way to get Brussels to squash 'em - which may be why Loganair has LDY-DUB!

[eastern wiseguy]

Doubt CAT 3 would do anything for RE ......and would the outlay be worth it for the amount of traffic you get?

[Tom the Tenor]

Aer Arann thinking about Cork - Derry!? Ha, one good way of putting it up to Jet 2 on the new service from Belfast? Great, if true! Are there dual carrigeway/motorway type roads between Belfast and Derry? It is funny as there was talk today at Cork of how Jet 2 will do from Belfast and one idea was that Jet 2 might be able to pick up traffic from people whose onward destinations might be in the Derry and Donegal area.

The installation costs of CAT3 at Cork? Well, the first thing to do is ask the around 20,000 diverted passengers from Cork last year their opinion on a CAT III at Cork if it meant they had successfully completed their flights at Cork rather than having to divert to Shannon, Kerry and Dublin.

The costs of a CATIII would pay for itself in short order over a few years in the money saved in paying for diversions, passenger inconvenience and extra crew costs etc. Remember here we are talking about Cork and her long history of 5h!t poor weather. Cork Airport needs all the help it can get in terms of good, reliable navaids.

[eastern wiseguy]

All fair comment Tom ...but NONE of AER Arrans current fleet would benefit in the slightest .......so where does that leave you?:=

[Tom the Tenor]

Yes, you do have a point. I would settle for RE doing CATII approaches at Cork instead of sometimes looking for 900 metre RVRs! We can then talk about the CATIIIs! Gee, sometimes you would be forgiven for thinking RE want RVRs longer than some runways!

[MarkD]

If this new terminal extension wasn't on the stocks it might be better to consider a new airport... somewhere flatter, hopefully.

[eoinok]

piston pete - I agree with what you say as well, I was just putting on my tabloid/unions hat there and was coming up with a dramatic headline.
I do think our goverment is becoming more socialist and so is the general public. It is now a case of who can give the best value for money as opposed to keeping people in jobs.
We have seen this happening with the likes of FR. People are flocking to them because of their prices etc and leaving EI high and dry. No sentiments of keeping "our national airline" going. I know the argument is there that FR is an Irish airline, but that is almost now a flag of convenience......
Anyway, this thread is about RE, we wont get into any other side debates :cool:

Mark D - I cant remember the circumstances, but I have heard before from some "of the old stock" to coin a phrase that the airport should have been built down around little island/ carrigtwohill (or European spelling of Carrigtohill :) ). It was the other site proposed but apparently is was a political decision to build it up there. I wont even hazard a guess, maybe someone else here might know why it was built where it is now.......

[Eh Hello?]

Did any heads roll at RE after the ATR72 flight/JAR145 situation?

For anyone interested in how the PSOs are viewed, take a look at http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/4803-0.pdf , the report by DKM for the government issued last year. Reading between the lines, Knock is very difficult to justify, the main purpose of Galway and Kerry (feed to Europe) is dead and gone and the requirements set out by the government (redeyes, 50-seat aircraft etc.) are considered mostly irrelevant going forward. Also, if the rumour factory is correct, it will not just be Arran and Loganair in the frame for the new round of contracts due to be advertised.

Arran need to find other routes which are profitable without so much reliance on PSO funds and also need to see what impact bmiBaby on Birmingham-CRK and Jet2 on BFS will have on their current services. A prudent Arran (unless they get a nod and a wink from insiders in the government) would hold off launching any new routes until they know what the fleet needs for their PSO routes (if any) will be after June. If they lose Kerry, for example, will their non-PSO routes from Kerry also be dropped?

The times they are a-changing...

[mikekilo]

JAR 145 issue was a storm in a teacup perhaps...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-1441871,00.html

[neidin]

I think the article in the Times asks more questions thaq its answers. You can choose to believe the RE spin or read between the lines. The damning part of it that was reported on local radio in Ireland today is that the IAA says there are maintenace lapses at RE. Bad news, Real bad news, for an airline. RE battle on - you can make it if you scrap half those rubbish routes.

[MarkD]

eoinok

The RAF/RAFC used to have a base where ORK is now IIRC. If it had been built at Carraigtwohill it would be smack beside N25 and the soon-to-be-reopened rail line. Ho hum.

[Tom the Tenor]

A Denim Air Fokker 50 has been hired in by RE again today. Has been working DUB-ORK a few times.

As an aside: Saturday around noon at Cork is now a very busy time for sun ITs and yesterday there were 2 Futura, a Volar and Air Europa all in at the same time. Cork being Cork the heavens opened and with the associated high winds the disembarking pax were once again getting drenched and soaked to the skin in the course of their long walk from the more remote stands between 7 and 10

The other aircraft on stand closer to the terminal were the EI A321 to LHR, the EI A320 to CDG and a shut down ATR receiving maintenance.

Why does the Cork Airport Authority dish out this shabby treatment to her passengers? The pax are paying high charges and deserve better and more courteous service than this bad form.

[eastern wiseguy]

Tom ...do you think that the LoCo's like Jet2 are "smelling blood" and moving in to ORK because of a percieved problem with RE?Or is there really a justification for the increased frequency from the Belfast area for example(and before you chip in I know your opinion ALLMCC) ?

[MarkD]

That link of "eh hello"s is *well worth reading*, although would like to see an updated one since last firm data is 2002. It refers to some of the PSO expiring 1/2004 but I can't find a reference to them being renewed.

I have challenged a few posters on pprune on PSO issues (like Waterford and UK routes getting subsidy) but I learned a few new things myself reading it.

Also, RE have expanded services to include CFN to PIK, making it more viable to dedicate an aircraft to that route and LDY to UK ports so could be in a good position to challenge Loganair for the latter even if they lose out on one of the others.

It's interesting that DKM were flagging that the PSOs under strict interpretation of the regulations may not be legal since rail and bus provide capacity >250k/pa and were suggesting legal opinion be sought.

[Tom the Tenor]

Eastern Wiseguy, Jet 2 on BFS-ORK will be one to watch. Aldergrove being a new destination I am sure the lure of incentives came into play? Did I not see on an earlier thread that the Jet 2 aircraft would otherwise have been parked up at BFS until later in the morning waiting for the new BOH flight to depart? A quick rotation to Cork fills the gap. As for the single daily frequency, well if you had business in Belfast and fly up and decided to take the train back down south again you would easily be in Dublin again around teatime and all going well should be back in Cork again by late evening. Not really an ideal situation but flying one way on the Jet 2 and taking train/bus in the opposite direction might still be cheaper than RE if booked at short notice?

[Tom the Tenor]

Aer Arann have today hired in a Denim Air Fokker 50 in full Iberia/Air Nostrum colours. Presently on the ground in Cork due out to Dublin.

[EI-WAT]

This should be nothing ne for the next while as i believe all of Re's ATR's have to go in for maintainence.

Regards
EI-WAT

[jamesbrownontheroad]

BFS - ORK is particularly interesting because of the vast amount of cross-border business across Ireland. Driving Cork - Belfast is a full day's work, and it's still a good five - six hours by train, including connections etc.

RE can't really increase their ORK frequencies from BHD, but they could strengthen their position with some imaginative runs to other airports in the south that are more than five hours drive from Belfast - KIR, SNN perhaps?

*j*

[MarkD]

jamesbrown

had the same thought, especially early birds to get the transatlantic traffic.

[eastern wiseguy]

early birds to get the transatlantic traffic.


Used to agree with that ...but Continental coming on stream with a 0900 departure to EWR ...well how early nonstop would you like?? I always thought EIN shot themselves in the foot when they pulled out of BFS :confused:

[MarkD]

eastern

fair point, but there will probably be USAir to PHL, definitely AA to BOS, etc.

[The 5Q]

Lorient services have been announced for the summer.

GWY - LRT will operate on Wed Sat Sun with WAT - LRT operating on Wed and Sat. All services are operated with an ATR72 and the GWY services are now direct.

5Q

[Tom the Tenor]

Congratulations to Galway and Waterford Airports on providing upgraded flights to regional areas of France with Aer Arann.

Shows you what can be achieved when you get up off your backside and ditch the apathy. Hope they are taking note elsewhere down the south. Wont be holding my breath though. Is it 5 pm yet?

[schoolkid]

Is there any indication that GWY and WAT to LTN will return to double daily for next summer also.

Happy Flying;)

[EI-WAT]

That's almost certain i'd say! Could even be looking at 3 times daily!


Regards
EI-WAT

[metalboymike]

I doubt 3 times daily Aer Arann should be very careful around Galway routes to Luton with Ryanair north and south of them. Whats the range of the ATRs,

Thinking of possible routes NOC-GLA/PIX or KIR- BHX.

[skyrabbit]

Range ain't a problem for the ATR.....we regularly did Swansea to Amsterdam with 44 pax

Rabbs :}

[StephenM_SMC]

Is NOC - GLA not going to be operated by BMI Commuter? I thought I read that on the Knock Airport Website...:confused:
Regards
Stephen

[MarkD]

ATR72 max range is about 1100km I think.

[metalboymike]

When was this? BMI suspened operations to GLA to Knock in June/July 04 due to poor loads. But I think it was the airlines fault no atvertisement done and too high fares and they didn't give the route a chance only 3 months of service. Thats why i think Aer Arann would make a better attempt at it with their ATRs the E145 costs to much to run.

Shame I did like seeing those 145s

[StephenM_SMC]

Oh, sorry! I did'nt know they had even opend up the route! That just proves the lack of advertising claim... I was waiting for the ads, but I thought since they had not come that it would be this year before they start operations....:confused:

Regards
Stephen

[neidin]

From Knock - Ryanair and Easy will have more than 1000 low cost seats daily to London - fares will get very low. It is only 53 miles on good road to Knock from Galway.

Shannon to Galway is 56 miles on another much improved road. From Shannon - Ryanair and Easy will have a further 1900 low costs seats a day - with Easy 600 and Aer Lingus a further 900. 3400 low cost seats - a bloodbath. More crazy low fares.

So - how will RE do with 280 highish fare seats from Galway to Luton if they go double daily in '05. Well they will get wiped out. People have no loyalty in Ireland - they just vote with their wallets. How many seats will be sold for one Euro from Knock and Shannon to London - thousands and thousands. Madness.

They should drop these UK routes and concentrate on maybe Waterford and an hourly shuttle Cork-Dublin. That may keep them in business if they lose out on some of the Irish Govt. subsidies.

[Tom the Tenor]

Agreed the huge number of low fares seats to London from both Knock and Shannon with FR and U2 will be trouble big time for RE and Galway. Only the most loyal and most wealthy Galwegians will tough it out and give in to the higher fares with RE and with their turboprops to boot! From the less informed pax point of view why travel on a small prop job when you can have a brand new and big 737 or A319 down or up the road? How do you counter that? More publicity features of P O'Ceidigh on the Nationwide TV programme? You can only keep that going so far.

As for Neidin's suggestion of an hourly shuttle arrangement between Dublin and Cork - yes, a good idea but would the schedule hold up when it comes to punctuality and serviceability? For example last night's RE641, the final DUB-ORK of the day did not get out of Dublin until midnight so was up to 1.5 hours late. For the inconvenience caused the passengers were offered a complementary glass of water! How gracious after a long day of work and travelling!

Aer Arann make big money on DUB-ORK and her passengers deserve a number of things, namely: Safety, Punctuality, regular service, courtesy and competitive fares. Then again, there is no competition - is this food for thought? I am beginning to think the answer to that may be in the affirmative. :hmm:

[neidin]

The old Aer Rianta boys were in the pub with us last night. Seems they expect Aer Lingus to tender for some of the PSO routes especially KIR with a subcontract marketing agreement. EI are talking to 3 airlines. One a new low cost from Eastern Europe.

Dublin Airport expect a lot of airlines will tender - they have been contacted by four real players with low cost jets about NOC and KIR. Hey EURO 50 per seat in the bank on any route for a low cost - how bad. Why not fly the seats empty!! Seems Irish Govt. at civil service level is sick of Aer Arann.

RE should get out of most of those UK routes quick. They will get roasted. Then they could focus on a proper service at Cork. Galway-Luton in a 20 year old propellor plane for EURO 120 or SNN or NOC - London in a 1 year jet for EURO 1. What a choice?

[metalboymike]

What airlines do you think they are?
Aer Arann most be very worried.

[Buster the Bear]

Galway back to double daily (certain days of the week) from Luton for summer 05, Waterford only daily so far.

189 seats available each way daily between Shannon and Luton for Summer 05, so any reduction between Galway and Luton is more than made up for by Ryanair's flights to the west coast. This new route I understand, is selling rather well!

I am married to a 'Paddy' and her family are delighted at the new Ryanair route and their CHEAP fares! Used Kerry from Stansted with Ryanair or Arann to Galway from Luton previously.

Mind you, Ryanair are only returning to Luton, we let the BAA fund them for the last 12 years by flying from a remote aerodrome in Essex!

http://whipsnade.co.uk/picturelibrary/jpeg150/br/brown_bear_120_wide.jpg

[Hey there]

So what's the line-up for the PSOs....

Donegal - RE, BA/Logan
Londonderry - RE, BA/Logan, FlyBE, Air Wales
Sligo - RE
Galway - RE, flyBe, Air Wales, Euromanx, Air Southwest
Kerry - Cityjet, Lingus, Ryanair and all of the above?
Knock - Irish Rail

I've heard whispers in the office about another carrier showing an interest in Dublin - Cork so combining that with a competitive PSO process, less funding for the winners and Ryan's expansion in the West - what will RE be doing next winter - flying jets or back to Island hopping?

[airhumberside]

Is Knock ceasing as the rail services is improved - thought the improvements where a few years away yet?

If RE lost Donegal, would that mean the end for PIK-Donegal?

[metalboymike]

RE are in for a very turbulent year.

With Knock you have to take into consideration that a government department will decentralising there soon so a good service would be very handy for those civil servants. So I think a air service is essential for that department .

[MarkD]

metalboy

which dept is going to NOC? And if the decentralisation goes at the same speed as currently, we shouldn't hold our breath.

As for Arann, if they can find some room at the ever more packed LTN, maybe they should look hard at LTN-IOM now that BACX are pulling off the route and declining to offer rebooked pax to LGW surface transport to LTN.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=160159

[metalboymike]

The Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs is relocating to Knock in late 06 early 07.

[Tom the Tenor]

Did any of you see page 14 of today's Irish Examiner newspaper? It contains a scathing attack by Terry Prone, the well known public relations guru, on the quality of the Aer Arann service between Dublin and Cork. I read the details whilst waiting at the doctors' surgery this morning so dont have a copy at hand but Ms Prone's comments are revealing. She was boarded on an already late Dublin-Cork flight. There must have been a late aircraft change from an AT7 to an AT4 so the flight was overbooked but the overbooked pax were already boarded and there were no seats for them! RE were looking for up to 4 volunteers to get off and wait for the next flight and their reward was to be the tidy sum of 75 euro!! The remaining pax, whom among included a top Health Service Executive official and the head of an A & E department at a Cork hospital were later treated to a delicious glass of water as refreshment on their flight to Cork!

The farce continued on the return leg of Ms Prone's flight from Cork to Dublin. She arrived a little late for check in and was scolded so by RE's representatives at Cork before running to the gate only to find no one waiting and thinking she must be the last to board. But no, on enquiring, the flight was late but with no mention of the flight details on Cork Airport's monitors. Well, yes, one of the landside TVs is out of action at the moment! A seperate issue. Boarding was eventually called but you have guessed it the aeroplane was parked remotely at Cork so Ms Prone and company had to endure the lengthy walk in the winter drizzle to the aircraft. She queries why no coaches? It gets better though. On the aircraft guess what next happens? Yes, the flight is once again overbooked with the surplus pax again in the cabin! A deadheading Captain offers to take the jumpseat to relieve the situation but finds out it is all ready taken by an engineer!

What is happening at Aer Arann?

Mind you, Ms Prone, also points to deficiencies at Cork and there is another big story brewing there. The new regime at Cork is having it's metal tested straight away the story of which is for any day now. ;)

[123 O'Leary]

So, what were the doctors recommendations Tom? - any hope?:8

[neidin]

Story is here on Aer Arann.
What awful timing for them while trying to renew their PSO routes. They really need to stop the rot fast. This is not isolated. Cut the UK and stick to Ireland RE. Or it may be curtains.

http://www.examiner.ie/pport/web/opinion/Full_Story/did-sgGu3CUiJhKwcsgTbBP-2fa91M.asp

[Exospheric]

Aer Arann cancelled Galway, Donegal and Sligo tonight. Knock is three hours late with the kickback to their Liverpool flight to come.

They really need to get their house in order if they intend to have any shot at a PSO renewal.

[Tom the Tenor]

Their Cork schedule was more or less okay today. Good loads too.

God knows why they did not throw on a extra to Edinburgh from Cork today for the rugby. That would surely have been a winner?

Lots of rain here in Cork tonight. Might be like this up the west coast? Not making any excuses for RE of course but may be a factor in the cancellations?

[ATRGUY]

My Cork flight much later now. Schedule for dep. Dublin 17.45 but plane go Dublin at 20.00 - much later. Aircraft broken and we try and fix now for RE. They check more ATR from Asia. Much staff very sad. They say EI for ORK. Il est tres ....

[atr42500]

J ai pas branché le decodeur si tu peux traduire :ok:

[ATRGUY]

You know if they will achieve the maintenance work and will have new work at Aer Arann please. I want employment in Ireland. My girlfirend is Cork!