Pilots with 250-300 hrs.

[WindSheer]

Hello all,

Are there any pilots out there that have done their ATPL, MCC etc and are finding it impossible to get jobs?
I am going to be starting mine next year, and am wondering is there anyone out there who are on the verge of giving up. And when I say giving up, I mean you have tried every thing - every airline whether they be passenger or small cargo!

I know many PPL's who have given up, but most who do their ATPL seem to 'make it'. Would you agree?

Merry Christmas all:ok:

[Pilot Pete]

Indeed there are many out there with the minimum qualifications you speak of, who are finding it very tough to find a break into the airlines. There are threads constantly about job prospects and 'who's recruiting' etc and it is clear that the first break is (and always has been) extremely difficult to secure.

FATPL holders come in many shapes and sizes and, just like in other walks of life, can take varying amounts of knockbacks before they throw in the towel. The one thing that seems to really stand out now is the perception that if you don't get your 'big break' within a few months of qualifying then the market is somehow unfair. In years gone by many pilots here in the UK spent considerably longer than 'several months' building their experience and enhancing their CV before finally getting the first break. I suspect this expectation of early success comes from seeing a large number of low houred pilots being taken on through schemes like the CTC ATP program and possibly also because of the increasingly large sums of money that young pilots get into debt for and have to start paying back sooner rather than later.

From personal experience of training back in 1997-1999, all except one pilot who qualified with me have airline jobs. The other one is an FI. Some were lucky and got a job straight out of training, others gained an airline job through the CTC scheme, some went air taxi or FI and some spent 12 months or so trying to get in with turbo-prop outfits before getting their break. Off the top of my head these are the airlines that I know some of these guys work for;

Britannia (x2)
Thomas Cook (x2)
EasyJet
Gold Air
Aurigny
BACE
Aer Lingus
BMed

So you can see that what it comes down to is persistence and never giving up. Don't expect a job straight away, but do everything to give yourself the best chance of getting one straight away. My best advice would be at all costs to not end up 12 or 24 months after qualifying with no more hours on your now slightly less shiny CPL...........think about your backup plan should the inevitable happen (ie you don't get a job flying a 747-400 one week after qualifying!!)

Good luck.

PP

[aces low]

I dont know if this answesr your question, but my own experience has been that I have a CPL/IR with MCC and over 1200 hours gained as an unrestricted (IRI) instructor. I have applied to all the airlines over the last two years...on a monthly basis to the turboprop guys and less frequently to the jet users.

I have yet to get a job ...but despite thinking about giving up, have yet to do so. I hear rumours of an upturn, but with over a 1000 chaps out there with CPL/IRs there are still going to be a lot of disappointed faces around this time next year. I just hope I am not one of them. Sooner or later I will have to put this career on the back burner as one cannot afford to live on a FI wage ( and associated debt, especially when there is a family to support). Plus I am already 43 (the oldest swinger in town perhaps).

Rationally, I should retire gracefully to another profession and scrabble like mad to build up some kind of income and pension asap. However, I'll keep on going until something happens. You never know what Santa has in his sack.

[WindSheer]

Thanks for taking all that time on those answers gents!

Its quite apparent these days that you have to be behind yourself 110% (goes without saying), and have a huge amount of bottle to keep piling cash in.

I am 25 now, and have reached the point where I know if I dont do it now, I never will. So........Over the top it is, see you on the other side chaps :uhoh:

[Flysundone]

At 25, I would have no hesitation in embarking on a career in aviation. You have time on your side.

If you are in a reasonably well paid job I would suggest you keep working and take the Modular CPL Route. It will take a bit longer but will save you a pile of cash and keep down your level of debt.

If you started a PPL tomorrow, you could have your CPL/IR in say two years. At age 27/28 you would be in a good position to get a job. You might consider instructing and acquire more hours before doing your IR.

I did all my training part-time, my exams through distance learning and did part-time instructing for about three years. Got my first and so far only flying job on a twin turbo-prop. in my mid-forties. For most of us it takes hard work and perseverence, even then, you need a bit of luck and there are no guarantees.

Go for it.

[smith]

Windsheer

Are there any pilots out there that have done their ATPL, MCC etc and are finding it impossible to get jobs?

When I read your post I didn't know wheather to laugh or laugh out loud.

The final line about all fATPL's get a job eventually had me in stitches. I know guys who've had fATPL's for 10 years and not had a sniff. Saying that things are picking up and 5 guys at my club have just had their big break.

Thanks for giving ne a laugh you really have brightened up my christmas break.

[low n' slow]

I'm on my way towards a fATPL/ME/IR/MCC integrated (one of those lucky bastards who got into a sponsored programme)...
I've heard of people throughout the spectrum: A friend of mine who did the same course as me and made it with 250 hrs. With the aid of some very fortunate contacts he's now with a smaller carrier flying md80 around europe... In the other end I have an instructor who's been instructing in the same simulator of poor quality for the past 12 years. When he started he had a wife and a promising career ahead of him. During these 12 years he's had numerous chances but has never been able to cut it. This leads me to believe that it's not all about being in the right place at the right time, but you also need to be of the "right stuff".
I think you need to show in subtle ways that you are willing to sell your soul for the job, but in the process maintain a pleasant and easygoing personality. What I've seen with my instructors who have been on the scene for the past 5 or 6 years is that they've become bitter... They're still flying to get hrs but essentially they've given up hope. I reccon it's like any basic survival situation: never give up hope, think before doing or saying anything, make sure you see all possibilities and if you decide to go for it, do so with all your heart. Make sure you qualify for the job applied to and turn up in person to deliver your CV, even if requires you to travel a fair distance. These are my guidelines but having never tried them in practice I really don't know what I'm talking about, it's just a hunch...

good luck to you all!
/lns

[WindSheer]

Thanks for the advice guys, and of course for your remarks Smith you t**t! :mad: :mad: :mad:

One thing I have certainly picked out is that personality plays a part in getting you into the airlines - has certainly worked for most of the guys I work alongside, how people like you get there I will never know.

Pilot pete, aces low, flysundone and low n' slow, have a good christmas - good luck in the future.:ok:

smith, thanks for your time you:mad:


;)

[scottwarnick]

Smith is a ****... i wouldn't get worried about it.....Some people are just bitter and twisted...

Like yourself i am 25 and just started my training... i know its daunting and its a huge mountain to climb but you DO have to believe in yourself.

I think investing that amount of money is like opening a business and you dont do that unless you have done your research.

I know what my abilities are and personality does come in to play but as long as you're not a complete muppet and can have a laugh and a joke you are ok.

Ninety nine percent of flight crew i fly with (i work as crew for emirates) are just regular lads who have had the balls, the professionalism, sheer determination and cracking sense of humour to make it and are now enjoying the fruits of thier labour flying brand spanking new wide body jets...

[smith]

Scott Warnick

I know what my abilities are and personality does come in to play but as long as you're not a complete muppet and can have a laugh and a joke you are ok.

I was having a laugh and joke, but I don't have to call people abusive names to get my point accross. Use of industrial language in my mind shows the dignity (or rather lack of it) in a person.

[Tinstaafl]

How many times on this site - and others - do many, many experienced people have to repeat 'There are no guaranteed jobs at the end of training.' before it's understood?

[ecj]

One of the essential ingredients to making that critical break into any airline is having a contact who can arrange for you to have an interview.
Having said that, it is up to you to sell yourself, and convince them that you would be a sound investment.