Amount of people in training at the mo

[Gillespie]

This is not a question, more of a statement/observation.

I've been training for quite a while now (on and off since 1999) and I'm almost finished (trying to do it without a loan).

It's only recently that I've found myself getting really angry when people say "oh you're a student pilot, I know so and so who's doing that".

It really p:mad: es me off when I hear about the number of people in training now. Everyone seems to know someone who's training or going to.

My point is this: research shows that there are about 350/400 ish jobs every year for pilots. Last year (this is approximate - Im too angry to check the SRG website) 1,500 people sat the ATPL exams. It feels as though I've paid a hideous amount of money to be in a god damn Lottery. HSBC seem to be giving out loans like chocolate bicsuits.

God damn it I'm angry. Can someone say something that's going to make me feel better about the 30odd grand I've spent and 6 years working my arse off?

[Boeing Freighter]

" It feels as though I've paid a hideous amount of money to be in a god damn Lottery. "

I am sure there are many people who feel that way ,you arent the only one .

Also , an airline might notice how much time/work/money you put into getting this far , and maybe it'll be an advantage ?

Hope that helps :)

Calum

[Pilot Pete]

Gillespie

Be careful your attitude does not transfer into your job search. It raises a few observations which may be detrimental;

1. Why do you let it get to you, it's always been this way?
2. Why didn't you do your research before training and realise what you would be up against?
3. Other people's ease or not of getting bank loans should not concern you........making sure your investment was worthwhile should.

Its nothing personal, as this is an annonymous forum anyway, but I can't see why you are getting so uptight about it unless you think you are not as good as the others out there.....

PP

ps Yes, you always were entering an expensive lottery, but you should know before you start if you have it or not....

[wheelbarrow]

As Pete says... it has always been like this. Pete and I both worked together for a couple of outfits and it was no different then to it is now.

If you thought that a job would materialise with little or no effort on your part then you are a mug!

Anyhow, if you are not in debt from learning to fly then don't worry. You are already ahead of 95% of pilots in that respect. And that includes Captains in Good Airlines..... but not Britannia. They get paid too much money.... isn't that right Pete! (you Ba5tard)!!!

If you really wanna be skint, just wait till you sign up for your type rating......:(

[Gillespie]

Hi again,

Thank you for all of your views.

Pilot Pete: It hasn't always got to me like this, I'm about to hit a point of no return financially (the Instrument Rating), therefore naturally I'm nervous about the future. I did do my research before, but over the years I've noticed an increase in the amount of people training. You are absolutely right about not letting other peoples financial means to train get to me. I suppose I was just being spoilt, tired and grumpy...

Wheelbarrow: I've never ever thought that a job would materialise without a fight. I've been in the 'training' industry for many years now to see enough people realise this. I know that perseverance will be my greatest asset when the time comes to search for that opening. As far as being in debt is concerned...well I'm just about even going into the IR....and hiring an a/c at £360 per hour is going to smack me in the :mad: then add MCC, FI ticket, keeping current, girlfriends Christmas present! the list goes on.

To some up I'm just riled at the harshness and brutality of this industry.

But one day I'm sure I'll look back and think it was all worth it.

I can't remember who said it, but I think this quote is very relevant:

"Because I fly, I envy no man"

[RVR800]

I know that I keep whining on about this but what this industry needs is freedom of information

Its OK for Gillespie to spend his money but what would be nice is for him and others to be able to assess the risk associated with such a venture and for that he needs access to information.

All we have is anecdotal evidence "oh I know somebody doing that" and flying school spin about first time passes and the fact that there is a pilot shortage coming...

Really the information provided by the boys at the Belgrano is sadly insufficient for this purpose.

Now I dont want to get into this any further but its a fact that the media will be seeking the required informatio from the campaign to abolish avaiaton in the new year and it will make very interesting reading....

Its simple things like - there have been a lot of changes made that have resulted in higher costs for pilots under training since JAR. What were the reasons for the changes?, what evidence was the change made, and has the change made any differrence?

The JAA introduced after 'consulting with the industry' the reqirement for all FIs to complete a CPL course why was that, has the change been effective etc..

e.g. In particular the CAA web site tells us that the UK successfully trains about 25 Private Pilots for the IR every year and those pilots are rumoured to be all heading for a professional licence but that evidence is missing because we have no progression stats for students... Is it policy that the CAA - as part of the JAA committees thinks that its OK for so many private pilots to fly on their to FAA IR legally in europe (and quite safely I might add). Minutes on meeting to discuss such things would be good.

All we get is the 'port and wine by the fire' brigade wheeling out a new policy that suits them LASORS 2005 - but there is NO TRANPARENCY in terms of statistics...

The problem is that the people who decide what will be included in LASORS 2005 often have a vested interest in hiding the information upon which those policies were based I reckon...
The CAA in particular is keen on expiring examinations, charging a fortune for what is just a few MCQs using a pan-european question bank - why is that so expensive?

I am a great believer in public bodies giving us info that shows us what we are getting for our money. My suspicion is that its public policy to continue to use pilots to subsidise low-cost flying in Europe and for that they need to have a huge pool of self-trained people many of which will not be needed.......or who will have to pay for their own TRs

That policy is OK even for pilots as long as we are all aware before embarking on the expensive road to training, a road incidentally skillfully crafted to lure you in to spending ever increasing sums of money with no forward view of the likelihood of any payback...!

[smith]

I am currently in the states for a long stay doing further licenses and exams and the number of Brits and Europeans with that "Airline pilot of the future" glint in their eye is a tad frightening.

[v12merlin]

Gillespie

God damn it I'm angry. Can someone say something that's going to make me feel better about the 30odd grand I've spent and 6 years working my arse off?

Try anger management classes and then get a better job to pay for the training. Oh and dump that girl friend, it'll save you loads!

Sorry for being faceious mate but we've all been there and believe me whinging won't help.

I can't remember who said it but I think this is quote is very relevent: 'If can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen'

Merlin

[Gillespie]

v12Merlin:

I can't understand your English:

I can't remember who said it but I think this is quote is very relevent

Sorry for being 'faceious' mate (actually spelt Facetious), but I’m sure anyone who is involved in the flight training lottery will feel similar to me.


My original post may read as if it is full of anger, but I'm not an angry person. That's the joy of these anonymous forums - you get to be someone else.

[Mister Geezer]

You can find a lot of statistics on the CAA website. Number of commercial type ratings issued last year and number of CPL and ATPL holders with a breakdown with age.

Made me jump slightly since it looks like I could (temporally!!) be one of the youngest ATPL holders when I get mine in the next few months! Yikes!!!

[Pilot Pete]

Gillespie

I understand your 'second thoughts' when it comes to shelling out for the IR. It is the most expensive bit.......

When I was in your position my wife was the one who was getting cold feet. She kept insisting that I had 'something to fall back on', a plan 'B' if you like, in case I failed the course! When I did it I was looking at the CAP509 Upgrade to get the twin IR, which was about £20k and 3-4 months at OATS.

We sat down and went through the options. I had done my homework and also had a plan 'B' up my sleeve, but that plan also required the £20k, so a choice had to be made. In the years previous I had been keen on car restoration and had rebuilt an old Spitfire. I had visited autojumbles (jumble sales for old car parts, usually well out of production) and had seen an opportunity to make money by providing a mobile shot-blasting service at such events. This would mean that punters could buy the old (usually second hand) bits for their rebuild, which would be rusty as hell and drop them off at my truck to be picked up later shot blasted clean and vacuum sealed in plastic ready for use whensoever they chose. All I required was an old truck with a decent spray job, a compressor and blast cabinet and a vucuum packing machine. I reckoned I could work weekends at the classic car shows and expand into other areas for any days I chose to work in the week.

All along though, I knew I would pass the IR and get my licence issued. Failure was never an option in my mind and I knew I would get a job eventually too. Trying to express this to a more 'concerned' wife was impossible, but what really swung it was once I had laid out my business ideas to her, which she sat through impassively and in answer to 'what do you think then?' she exclaimed (in her well spoken, some would call posh tone) 'but I don't want to be married to a f*ck*ng shot blaster!' I started at OATS a week or so later..........................

Keep the faith.

PP

[Gillespie]

Pilot Pete,

Thanks mate, it's good to here success stories once in a while like your own. keeps the faith in us wannabees. In fact I seem to remember reading a post by you a few years back. It was a story about your quest to the RHS of a 757 or something similar. Very inspirational (I think it was you?!). In fact when I was trying to convince others around me at the time, I printed off a copy to show that this is possible.