View Full Version : Suckling Airways/Scot Airways
david_wilding
15th Dec 2004, 22:53
Does anyone know anything about the history/story of Suckling Airways?
I am aware that they are now Scot Airways. But wondered why they changed.
Also does anyone know if Roy Suckling is part of the Scot Airways management?
Airways.com
15th Dec 2004, 23:22
The previous name of Suckling Airways was established in Nov.84 at Ipswich Airport. First services were Ipswich to Manchester in 86. As the operation grew a temp base was made at RAF Wattisham before a permanent base was created in Cambridge. In 1999 a cash injection was received by the founders of stagecoach (don't think they can be named on here)..they are Scottish - hence the name scot airways was adopted.
ClickRich
16th Dec 2004, 14:16
I'm not sure the link between Stagecoach and Scot Airways is that secretive. As Chief Executive and founder of Stagecoach plc, Brian Souter declares that he is also Chairman of Scot Airways.
I know a few ways of becoming Chairman. Mr Souter would easily qualify on the strength of his transport and business experience. I would have thought he also has the means to invest in the business. I'm sure there are other reasons besides.
Richard
The SSK
16th Dec 2004, 15:23
Suckling Airways was once the subject of an excellent BBC TV documentary - I'm sure there must be tapes of it in circulation.
ClickRich
16th Dec 2004, 16:23
I remember flying with them from CBG (to the Benelux somewhere I think) and the only word I can use for the check in was 'quaint'. It was great. A friendly hello from the lady who I always thought to be Mrs Suckling (maybe that was true). Then as soon as there was a break in the queue she would shoot round the checked-in PAX with the offer of tea or coffee... from a kettle with real tea bags and real coffee if I remember rightly. Then she would manage the 'gate' and boarding. Then Mr Suckling was the pilot. What a team.
Can you imagine the welcome you would get from Ryanair's notoriously brusque O'Leary? Actually he's a businessman through and through, so maybe he'd lead the way in customer services :rolleyes:
david_wilding
16th Dec 2004, 16:43
yes indeed a very nice family run business! my family is friends with the Suckling's, but haven't spoken in years, so unable to know how to contact them now.
But wondered is Roy Suckling remains the CEO to Scot Airways, as I have seen his wife, Merlyn Suckling, appear on the Scot Airways site as the Commercial Director.
I believe Roy is still the CEO at Scot AW, and Merlin is in charge of commercials. Brian Souter is chairman and has pumped money into the airline.
Roy was a QFI at Ipswich airport (now a housing estate) long ago and came up the air taxi way. About 15 years ago British Airways had an initiative to provide funding to minor carriers (god knows why) which Roy got to start Ipswich to Amsterdam.
The TV programme was I believe called "Darling lets start an airline", no doubt a reference to Merlin's commercial acumen (believe she's a qualified lawyer). It had footage of their first Dornier 228 with micro-sized flight attendant, she had to be under 5 feet tall. In flight meals were shown being prepared by a friend who did them in her home kitchen and delivered to Ipswich airport whence Roy flew them over to Amsterdam.
Scot did a big expansion at London City some years ago but then retracted somewhat and seem to be marking time. Their fleet of Dornier 328s is large for their scheduled commitments, but they seem to pick up exec charter work with them (football teams etc) as there is not much else available in the UK in this size. Oh, and they rarely seem to make a profit, so it's a bit of Brian Souter indulgence as well. Millionaire Souter lives near Dundee and on the Scot service from there to London he is one of the regular pax; would doubtless be an inconvenience to him if the service were lost.
They are still based at Cambridge despite having no schedules from there; it's their alternate if LCY is fogged in.
david_wilding
16th Dec 2004, 18:07
shame they dont make a profit and re-arrange thier ops a bit better. they could open more routes and offer slightly less rotatations, they have the fleet amount, so i would have thought they could do more routes.
I must contact their Cambridge offices.
we_never_change
16th Dec 2004, 18:35
Do they still operate Southampton to Amsterdam? Wasn't/isn't this route operated with a codeshare with KLM (UK)?
WNC
ftd83
16th Dec 2004, 19:36
Yes they do. Not sure about the codeshare though
Oshkosh George
16th Dec 2004, 20:01
I am always amused on my early morning visits to EDI,that they have two departures to LCY within 5-10 minutes of each other.
Would they not be better with larger aircraft? I realise they would have to find a day use for this machine,but surely there would be something worthwhile.
I am surprised they have not looked into other routes.
leonbrumsack
16th Dec 2004, 20:55
ScotAirways use the D328, rather than larger aircraft, as they claim to prefer offering more frequent flights on smaller aircraft. As I understand, they are not currently looking into acquiring larger aircraft types, or jets.
I believe that ScotAirways are continually on the lookout for new scheduled routes, but clearly do not feel there are any others they want to 'risk' at present. It seems that of the fleet of eight aircraft is well utilised, as although CB only operate three scheduled routes, a considerable number of corporate charters are operated for various companies and organisations, as I believe a previous poster has already mentioned.
Leon
So many fairy tales on this thread almost don't know where to start... oh well then, how about this...
Oh, and they rarely seem to make a profit,
laugh...? too right mate.... ;)
we_never_change
16th Dec 2004, 23:07
Even if they were looking at aquiring a different type of aircraft, it would have to be capable of LCY ops, that narrows the field down. As mentioned previously, the Do328 suits their needs so why chane?
WNC
david_wilding
16th Dec 2004, 23:46
yes indeed, the Dornier 328 is a lovely aircraft and does well with them. I beleive that they just need to tone down the rotations and offer more routes, this may being in more revenue and actually make a profit for once!
ClickRich
17th Dec 2004, 08:29
Can those who say Scot Airways rarely make a profit please be more specific. I haven't a clue, have no vested interest in Scot Airways, but am just an interested poster and the repeated unsubstantiated assertion that they don't break even is starting to wear a bit thin.
Even if they 'rarely' make a profit, if they make a whopping one every third year, that's ok. I can imagine that opening new routes and resourcing them up front is a whopping expenditure and you need to take a long term view on when the assets start to return you cash.
Sounds like a great niche for a privately owned airline. It may be small and vulnerable, but who isn't?
airhumberside
17th Dec 2004, 13:40
Are they interested in the 328 JET
Oshkosh George
17th Dec 2004, 14:47
Well,I definately read on a financial or airline website(not a forum),that their last period produced quite a large loss for the size of operation.
I can't be more specific,because I can't remember the details,but I wonder if it's SINCE BA started in competition?
jamesbrownontheroad
17th Dec 2004, 21:10
(I don't necessarily approve of reminisence posts, but Suckling/Scot deserve one....)
It was a Suckling D-228 that carried me on my first commercial flight back in the early nineties from Cambridge to Amsterdam (I always remember seeing the 0700 departure to AMS climbing over the rooftops from my bedroom window).
We were called the night before to find out what we wanted for breakfast. It was still prepared in the kitchen of one of the team that morning. Cambridge (Marshalls) airport was delightful: simple terminal (albeit with plastic fixed seating rows) and very informal security. I think someone even parked our car for us.
A month or so ago on a whim I posted on PPrune for info about the plane:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=152054&highlight=suckling
Links to recent pics of G-BUXT (subsequently with Air Wales, then static for a long time in Denmark and now reported to be in Iceland - perhaps with Islandsflug?) and G-BMMR (now CC-CNW in much warmer climes) are there. Thanks to Speechless & Cringe for their help.
*j*
leonbrumsack
17th Dec 2004, 22:20
I believe they posted a loss of £650,000 this July, but I can't remember the source - possibly somewhere on Yahoo. However, in the period before this, I believe they made a decent profit.
Regarding to D328 Jets, I believe they are currently not looking at this particular type. Apparently, due to the relatively short legs flown, they do not feel it would be worth investing in jet aircraft. CB seem to feel the D328 prop aircraft are ideal for their operation.
Airways.com
18th Dec 2004, 00:31
profit or no profit, this airline still exists which has to be good news in comparison to some operators - and that's great considering how they started as detailed in earlier posts.
Trislander
18th Dec 2004, 11:32
leon's right,
The routes flown by CB are too short to benefit from a jet on those routes, the D328 is pretty quick anyway. Plus fuel and operating costs for a jet are a lot higher. The D328 is a fine a/c for the job, it doesn't need changing!
Believe that the SOU-AMS route is codeshared with KL and BE.
ForestFlyer
18th Dec 2004, 14:21
Scot have codeshared in the past, but currently there is no codeshare arrangement. From what I have gathered from people working at Sou, since FlyBE's expansion at the airport, I think Merlin Suckling would now only allow a codeshare with FlyBE 'over her dead body'!
Some of the 'nice family business stories' above are intriguing. I've flown with Scot a few times and had no problems, but apparently Merlin is notoriously difficult to deal with on a business level and often resorts to shouting to get her point across. Apparently she is well known in the industry for it.
I was once present at Sou, flying elsewhere, when Merlin was at the airport to oversee a Football Club charter (Apparently Scot do a lot of these), and she was quite offensive and abusive to the man she was speaking to, who I believe was an Airport Manager, but I didn't hang around.
Anyone else hear any similar stories?
Yes, she has a real mouth on her, just ask the EDI Servsair management!
In their largest phase, they had a bunch of 328's doing EDI-LCY head to head with flybe. At one stage it was 8 (I think) rotations a day, mostly empty. There was a deal done - worth millions - that involved flybe coming off the route, but still booking pax through their system for ScotAirways. Good deal for flybe (apart from the crews, who ended up spending their lives in hotels). As the 146 was running with high loads, the deal assured a future for ScotAirways. Pax weren't very happy though.
They did look seriously at the 328Jet, but then financial reality caught up with them.
It used to be good fun, departing after them in the 146 and then passing them about Pole Hill.
They then downsized, shed a few of the 328's (and some staff), some of whom went to flybe.
They did have some "quaint" engineering practices too.
They are really only still in business because Brian Souter poured (and still pours) millions into the company.
Ace Rimmer
18th Dec 2004, 17:06
Every time I've encountered Merlin I 've found charming and entertaining. Last time she was telling me about her 'stop people on trains wiping their bogies on the seats' campaign. Bet she could be difficult though;)
In their largest phase, they had a bunch of 328's doing EDI-LCY head to head with flybe. At one stage it was 8 (I think) rotations a day, mostly empty. There was a deal done - worth millions - that involved flybe coming off the route, but still booking pax through their system for ScotAirways. Good deal for flybe (apart from the crews, who ended up spending their lives in hotels). As the 146 was running with high loads, the deal assured a future for ScotAirways. Pax weren't very happy though
Thats entertaining! I hope that was your objective because its as near the truth as I am from the moon...! Gave me a real good belly laugh though, after a day like today I needed it... so cheers for that!
I believe they posted a loss of £650,000 this July
Where the hell did that come from...? Profit figures maybe... ;) Scotties yields are quite amazing... and something the likes of flybe can only dream about... :p
It used to be good fun, departing after them in the 146 and then passing them about Pole Hill.
Then us having to slow down once we caught you up at LAM... ;)
They are really only still in business because Brian Souter poured (and still pours) millions into the company
I believe its been at least 2 years since he 'poured' money in! But hey... never let the facts get in the way of a good story... eh...?
This thread is shaping up to be bonzer fun... :p
Oshkosh George
18th Dec 2004, 23:16
Meeb
You wouldn't want to pick a hat to eat,would you?
I KNEW I'd seen it somewhere,and it's right here on Pprune!
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=137852&highlight=scot+airways+loss
Meeb , I know you think you have to defend your ex-company, but you don't seem to know jack about anything.
Now if you would like to challenge me on any facts, tell me which facts you dispute and we'll talk.
Regarding loads, the 146 used to run full about half the time. and with loads in excess of 75% most of the rest of the time. Loads were never an issue. As we handed you all those pax, you couldn't do anything other than have high load factors.
One thing is sure, never, in your wildest dreams, could the 328 catch a 146. We used to pass them with over 40 kts speed differential. What does a 328 cruise at?
I'm a little surprised that you defend them though, seeing as how they made you redundant in January 2001 (remember that now do you?), during the "downsize". I also recall that you were pretty keen to get into flybe at the time, but then flying a shed (after Scotairways) does that to you...
Oshkosh... that link is 2003, I think you will find this year is shaping up to be good for them, their yeilds are quite remarkable and in the face of BA increasing frequency too... ;)
Meeb, not taking sides or anything (perish the thought) and I've some good mates at Scotairways, but my browser shows the link as 2004.
Yes thanks for pointing that out, I meant to say that the figures mentioned are for 2003... In anycase, people need to be a little more lateral in their thinking regards CB... ;)
Oshkosh George
24th Dec 2004, 15:50
Scot to lease City Star's D-CPRU from 3rd Jan until 2nd April 2005.
Mark Lewis
24th Dec 2004, 18:08
Haven't they just returned G-BZIF to Dornier?
Interesting, as a 146 will easily cruise at M0.72, ISA, at FL310. We did it day in, day out. Passed the 328 every time, as long as the head start was no more than 15-20 miles.
M0.72 being considerably faster than M0.55.. :rolleyes: