Enstrom Down?

[oldbeefer]

Midlands News showed what looked like an Enstrom which had force landed in a field near Shrewsbury. anyone anymore details?

[SASless]

Must be an area of intense gravity near Shrewsbury....a Squirrel and now an Enstrom!

[goaround7]

Same machine ? An Enstrom looks a lot like a Squirrel from a distance...

[Bomber ARIS]

....especially when it's f**ked!!

http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/uploads/sd723089_helicopter.jpg

versus

http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/uploads/sd724956_helicopter1.jpg

Edited to play spot the difference

[helicopter-redeye]

It has roundels. Do the RAF/ DFTS fly Enstroms ??

[quichemech]

It's a single squirrel by the look of it and it heavy landed according to the local news at an Army barracks in Shropshire.

See the post about the 350 incident.

[Phoenix Rising]

quichemech - Heavy landing - that would be an understatement looking at whats left of it :eek:

:E

[Steve76]

Lick of paint and she'll be right.
I think you would want to have been wearing your helmet in that one.

[oldbeefer]

No, I know about the Squirrel. The item on local news showed what looked like a white/red Enstrom being towed out of a field on the outskirts of Shrewsbury.

[Whirlybird]

I haven't heard anything, but there is a privately owned Enstrom based near Shrewsbury; it drops into Sleap for fuel fairly regularly. I don't know if that's the one though.

[rotorboater]

Enstrom Down (http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/publish/article_27125.shtml)

Details on Enstrom crash - light injury only luckilly.

[Gaseous]

If this is Staurts machine and I think it is. it is G-BAAU. From the picture it looks possibly repairable. Thank goodness he's OK.

[quichemech]

V sorry, had only heard of the one accident on local news, can see where similarities exist in looks when they are smacked up.:eek:

[Hilico]

Link to AAIB report issued Nov 2005, here. (http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/sites/aaib/publications/bulletins/november_2005/enstrom_f_28a_uk__g_baau.cfm)

[Head Turner]

So he ran out of fuel, a costly mistake. I cant believe that the pilot would have know at the outset what fuel he needed for the flight and refuelled accordingly. Is there a 'low fuel warning light' on this model helicopter, I'm sure there is.

[Thomas coupling]

Sounds to me like an amateur. Running out of fuel:mad:

I love it when the papers say the brave pilot steered the stricken craft away from the women and children playing innocently in the gardens etc etc (some artistic licence there sorry!).

Bottom line in these instances is:

OOooooooooooooh Jesus Chr*st I'm going to die if there isn't a field under me - lower the lever and PRAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY.

All in all he's lucky he's not up on a manslaughter charge.

[Gaseous]

HT.

No, there is no low fuel light. The fuel gauges on aircraft of this age are generally crap. I have drained the tanks dry (on the ground!) and seen 1/4 full still on the gauge. It had been 'calibrated' within the past year to comply with the AD.

The fuel flow gauge is nearly always as bad. I'm not defending running out of fuel. Basic fuel calculations show that this flight was just not on.
However: He was a low hour pilot and likely as not believed what the instruments were telling him. A costly mistake indeed, but in my opinion one that should not be possible.

The regulatory system in this godforsaken country makes it nearly impossible to fit decent instruments. I know. I have tried.

Ok, dipping, a calculator and half a brain works for me, but this is the 21st century. It is not unreasonable to expect instruments that are accurate.

Its time that old aircraft - and not just helicopters, were allowed to be upgraded. Inaccurate instruments are worse than none at all.

The safety regulators should be constructive, not obstructive. They may find that approach actually prevents accidents.

[clicker]

Yes the report is worth reading, first reaction was to say "silly fool" or similar but when you see the facts you can understand why it happened.

[Sewing Machine Man]

I’m amazed that there are little or no warnings for low fuel. I would have thought there would have been horns, bells and whistles blowing “DANGER DANGER LAND NOW” Also would the pilot not be aware that something was amiss due to excessive aft cyclic to compensate for the loss of fuel weight.

And why wont the authorities allow an upgrade? I would imagine it not making a huge difference to the maximum take off weight or c of g.

Mike.. Not a pilot, but a big, above average enthusiast , hope I’m still welcome after that confession..

[NickLappos]

Lack of flow information? Poor gauge? Poor warning light? Still no excuse, in the end. Your fuel state is the second most important thing in your helo, after your rotor rpm, and about even with your altitude.

To misjudge is one thing, to run out of gas while fat and happy in cruise is neglegant to the extreme. On one model piston, with notoriously bad gauges, I simply punched the clock. At 1 hr 30 minutes, I would be on the ground, "one way or the other," my instructor said. I listened!

[Head Turner]

Could this topic end up with those who fly the machines and have a vested interest in their own survival and the regulatory body who has other thoughts, at loggerheads with each other, as usual!
The only thing a fuel gauge tells you is that one is fitted. That was the advice of my instructor and it still holds true today.
Do instructors nowadays pass on these words of wisdom or are they so computer orientated that they believe what they see without question. Oh what a degradation of standards!
As equipment gets more reliable the standards of survivable thoughts deterioates. IMHO

[Gaseous]

Could this topic end up with those who fly the machines and have a vested interest in their own survival and the regulatory body who has other thoughts, at loggerheads with each other, as usual!

In a word, Yes.

I gave up trying to get approval to upgrade my instrumentation. Letters were not answered or lost and phone calls were pointless. They didn't want to know. Frightened of the consequences of actually making a decision I think.

In my opinion the regulators in this instance are not acting in the interest of safety.

I still don't run out of fuel but what the point in having instruments that are useless?? Its a known defect. It should be sorted out. This industry is supposed to be safety conscious.

Nicks right, but its a bit hard on a low hour pilot with a recently acquired machine. I remember asking about the fuel consumption on a 28A when I got mine. The usual answer was 'it depends'. And it does. anywhere from 12 to16 gallons per hour is normal full rich, depending on how the aircraft is set up. I can make it burn 18 gallons per hour if I really try hard! I can also get it down to 10. This knowledge only comes with experience, which Stuart did not have.

Remember, none of this is published in any of the documents available to the pilot either. Hence the need for decent information and instrumentation. It should not be too much to ask for.

[Heli Sport]

I was always taught that 'He who lives by the gauge, dies by the gauge' Sounds lucky in the case of this accident anyway and I wish him a speedy recovery.
What ever happened to a second method of checking fuel on board ie, a fuel dipstick of some kind. Or a better knowledge of the aircrafts fuel flow and setting yourself for 15% reserve min or so on.' He who lives by the gauge, dies by the gauge' :ooh: