View Full Version : AS 350 'incident' at Defence Helicopter Flying School (Update - Accident Report)
Fg Off Max Stout
14th Dec 2004, 16:47
Heard a whisper today of an incident at Ternhill involving a Squirrel. I know nothing more. Anybody have any gen?
Stout
Any landing you can walk away from.........or limp perhaps?
Canary Boy
14th Dec 2004, 20:03
A. Thank heavens he's (relatively) OK. :ok:
B. Wonder if the concept of a Squirrel cabriolet will ever 'take off'? :yuk:
Olly O'Leg
14th Dec 2004, 20:28
:ok: Glad the guy's going to be okay :ok:
"it is thought the accident happened because the pilot had a hard landing" - well smite me with a mighty barge pole. Who the hell writes these things??? Take one look at the picture (speaks all those words, it does)!!!!!
How many other stupid comments do these people come up with!?!? Any howlers people remember?
Canary Boy
14th Dec 2004, 20:38
Olly
This should probably be in 'things I wish I'd never said'...
Seen in a flight safety publication (civ if memory serves) recently, as advice to controllers..."a single engined aircraft with an engine failure will need to land as soon as possible....."
No sh1t Sherlock
jEtGuiDeR
14th Dec 2004, 20:48
Hope whoever he is, has a swift recovery, and remember, every landing is a controlled crash!! :D
Training Risky
14th Dec 2004, 21:48
Better to stop, then land...... rather than land, then stop:ok:
Best of luck to the army/FJ x-over dude!
wg13_dummy
14th Dec 2004, 21:51
Ooops!
Good news he's ok.
No doubt he'll be straight on a QHI course!!:p
Olly O'Leg
14th Dec 2004, 21:51
Must admit, I don't fly helos, but I'm still not too keen on how the cockpit appears to have disintegrated at the front. Or do we think that section was cut out for the rescue?
pilot is ok. nope, the cab was not cut off by the (v prompt) rescue crews - just kind of does its own thing in helos!! await the BOI...:ok:
jayteeto
14th Dec 2004, 23:24
Cars fall apart after minor crashes now. Motorbikes are terrible, they are nearly always written off. Why not helicopters? If the cab takes the impact and I survive, then thats fine by me.
"Chief!! Can I have another helicopter please? This one is broken"
delta96
15th Dec 2004, 08:15
I wonder how much of that damage was caused by Trumpton.
Give them an excuse to get the hydraulic boltcutters out....
Whipping Boy's SATCO
15th Dec 2004, 09:06
It wasn't that long ago that, driving up the A41, you could regularly observe a Gazelle that had suffered a "heavy landing".
Hope the chap(ess) was well enough to recount tails of daring do in the bar last night.
Spanish Waltzer
15th Dec 2004, 14:01
An AS 350 Squirrel had a hard landing with a solo military student on board. Cause unknown at the moment but more details and a piccy at following link.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/DHFSaccidentAS350.jpg
Thought those of you operating similar aircraft on civvy street might be interested.
http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/publish/article_27026.shtml
Safe flying to you all over the Christmas period
Stuff
15th Dec 2004, 14:16
I wonder how much of that damage was caused by Trumpton. Give them an excuse to get the hydraulic boltcutters out....
In that situation I'd much rather the fire and rescue crews cut everything in sight to get me out. I'm not a helicopter pilot but I'll guess that a heavy landing doesn't do your back much good.
Those same fire crews might save your life someday so lets not go poking fun at them even in jest ;)
Hope the pilot has a swift and full recovery.
airborne_artist
15th Dec 2004, 14:25
Those same fire crews might save your life someday so lets not go poking fun at them even in jest
Fireman Sam/Trumpton can take the banter - and give it back in spades - so no need for you to go all serious on us, Stuff.
Unless you are one yourself and about to put in a claim for 30% while baby sailors/soldiers/airman do the job .....
SASless
15th Dec 2004, 14:51
Could this be a case of the dreaded jack stall....or transparancy in the flight control system......surely not!
Cool yer jets boys....jes kidding!
oldbeefer
15th Dec 2004, 16:02
You may be able to see how the 'crash resistant seat' has done its job very well. Also that despite the machine thrashing itself to bits, the (student) pilot was in the pub the same evening! First serious incident in (probably) more that 130,000 hours of student flying must speak volumes on the overall standard of instruction and supervision!!
HeliEng
15th Dec 2004, 18:21
Just a question.
In the article, it says that the airfield is used by Squirrel and Griffin helicopters.
What's a Griffin?????????
Cheers
"Mad as a mooing fish"
Spanish Waltzer
15th Dec 2004, 18:31
Hope this helps!!
http://www.shawbury.raf.mod.uk/dhfshelicopters.htm
SASless
15th Dec 2004, 18:43
Another A-Star EMS aircraft crashed in Arizona last night...one dead...two injured. No word on cause yet.
oldbeefer
15th Dec 2004, 20:10
HeliEng
Griffin = Bell 412
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/griffin_winch_shawbury.jpg
Haggis Hunter
15th Dec 2004, 20:57
Looks like there's a bit of a scratch on the skids. Hope the guys alright!
wg13_dummy
15th Dec 2004, 21:32
Also a bit of a scratch to his helmet!!! One lucky chap me thinks.
Dunno if the squippers will try and bill him for one x Mk4 Helmet, blade marks to the top.......:eek:
From what I can gather, he (the squirrel stude) is ok. He was by all accounts drinking large quantities of Boddingtons in the bar that night all be it with a bit of a limp.
ShyTorque
15th Dec 2004, 21:49
"Could this be a case of the dreaded jack stall?"
SASless, I don't think the pilot's name has been released...
P.S. Bearing in mind this is a French aircraft, the name would be Jacques... Jacques Stall. ;)
wg13_dummy
15th Dec 2004, 22:57
then it's a fair bet that this 'student' pulled an armfull of pitch during an 'engine off' when he was somewhat unadjacent to the ground! Probably caught the instructor unaware and the subsequent 'arrival' was inevitable
Letsby, he was solo so I'm sure the instructors intervention would have been more of a 'mind melding operation' than a 'I have control, ****, too late!'
And 'Having done thousands of EOLs in 350s at Ternhill', one would hope you completed RTFQ prior to that!
Nothing like shooting half cocked with an empty mag.
ShyTorque, very droll!!:hmm: :D
SASless
15th Dec 2004, 23:04
Shy....could a Jack Stall be a french name for a dunny?
rotorcraig
15th Dec 2004, 23:22
Update at BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shropshire/4097167.stm) names pilotHelicopter crash inquiry begins
An inquiry has begun after a helicopter from RAF Shawbury crashed at Tern Hill near Market Drayton on Tuesday.
The Squirrel aircraft from the Defence Helicopter Flying School was being piloted by Sergeant Stephen May who was on a solo training flight.
He was taken to hospital believed to be suffering from a broken leg and other injuries but has since been released.
Chief Flying Instructor at Shawbury, Commander Andy McKie, said the inquiry should not take too long. RC
Hippolite
16th Dec 2004, 02:23
According to the FAA website, the other 350 accident in Arizona is an EMS aircraft N971AE which is Air Evac (PHI).
http://www.faa.gov/avr/aai/K_1215_N.txt
Letsby Avenue
16th Dec 2004, 05:47
wg13_dummy - I'll take that on the chin, :ouch: Must remember RTFQ...:ugh:
Leprechaun
16th Dec 2004, 12:08
This'll make a hoofing dit for the bar at wallop! Must have been one hell of a landing! A couple of my oppos have bent squirrels in the past but this pongo has really raised the bar!
Seriously though, glad he wasn't badly hurt and back in the bar that evening!
Leps
aytoo
19th Dec 2004, 13:51
...not just tales of 'derring do' in the bar. I understand that he entered the pub where his course mates (and matesses) were, to a spontaneous standing ovation. Big respect!
Just glad the squishy part of the aircraft survived relatively unscathed - metal is easily replaced or fixed, after all.
jellycopter
22nd Dec 2004, 10:40
OK you DHFS chaps. It's all gone quiet about this 'hard landing'. Now the dust has settled a bit, is anyone able to shed any light as to the cause? J
rich poole
19th Jun 2006, 13:41
The report is just out.
Good, interesting read. :}
MoD Report: Squirrel HT1 ZJ258 (http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/7D7DE6CC-C5C7-4953-8813-933B606FE560/0/maaszj258.pdf)
Rich
ShyTorque
19th Jun 2006, 15:11
Did the student get promoted? :E
BTW, The comment about flying helmets not being fitted properly - what's the story there then? I sincerely hope this isn't an indication of ill advised cost cutting...
Bill Reid presumably retired some years ago.... he might have been a grumpy old so and so but he did know how to fit flying helmets correctly.
The student's helmet was so badly fitted that it travelled 30 yards (fortunately without his head in it).
rich poole
20th Jun 2006, 06:52
No chopped. :}
teeteringhead
20th Jun 2006, 07:44
As an interesting sideline to this incident, and a reminder to all involved in post-crash management, apparently the press were on the scene within 20 minutes!!!
Whilst not exactly at the end of the world, I think you can see it from Ternhill!
ShyTorque
20th Jun 2006, 07:53
No chopped. :}
Was his head too small for the helmet then? :E
Whirlygig
20th Jun 2006, 11:53
Was his head too small for the helmet then? :E
Highly unlikely for a helicopter pilot :p :E
Cheers
Whirls
topendtorque
20th Jun 2006, 12:25
Letsby's quote seems to have stalked in from the ether?
Someone will have to ask the dummy question RTFQ??
BTW I'd hate to try to tangle with 'Shy' at 188.
Whirlygig
20th Jun 2006, 12:42
Someone will have to ask the dummy question RTFQ??
BTW I'd hate to try to tangle with 'Shy' at 188.
RTFQ - if you are asking what it means - it means you haven't sat enough exams! Read The F***ing Question! Very similar to RTFM!
...and you had certainly better not mess with Shy given you've added 100 years to his age - he's quite a spry old chap with an amazing turn of speed for an old 'un :ok:
Cheers
Whirls
I'm a dead girl, I'm a dead girl!!!!!!!!
topendtorque
20th Jun 2006, 13:04
Whirls
I don't think so. alive and still lighting fires.?:ok:
I too light fires, grenades often have better effect.
Exams?? never heard of em. one spectacular endorsement was, well I'd better not say too much but an FOI who was in a spot of bother needed one pronto, so I thought of one for me, another well that was a message on the cyclic, which went like this, "give 'er a couple of primes and don't forget the f'n fuel pump, it's over by the shed"
I definately wouldn't say who wrote that piece. He is also a pyramaniac.
teeteringhead
22nd Jun 2006, 08:58
Bill Reid presumably retired some years ago.... he might have been a grumpy old so and so but he did know how to fit flying helmets correctly. he certainly has, but is still to be seen around EGOS.
Apparently he started his career as a rigger (fabric), and has been doing some great work on the Horsa surfaces for the Assault Glider Project (http://www.assaultgliderproject.co.uk/) alongside that young carpenter, one "Lofty" Marshall .......
Thud_and_Blunder
22nd Jun 2006, 18:58
Ah, Lofty...
Invented the best word I've ever read in the English language - I try and ease it into conversation every day. Lifted it off his SFSO poster offering to help would-be report-posters with their Service Writing (which also dates me). He offered to "disencopulate" any joined-up-scribble problems they may have suffered.
With him in Groundschool and Bloo Anderson on the staff at CFS(H), who could possibly have gone rwong while on the best course in HM Forces?!