FI in N reg's in the UK

[copterfamily]

Anyone know any companies flight instructing in the UK in N reg aircraft?

[md 600 driver]

send me a pm with your email otherwise it may look advertising

[DennisK]

Just an important point re the above proposed training.

Ensure the operator has UK Sec of State permission for the flying, being 'aerial work'

I didn't and landed a CAA prosecution, albeit 'Flying Lawyer's shrewd advice achieved a 'conditional discharge. I'll be posting a report for the industry to read shortly.

Dennis K

[Fair Flair]

Want to know the regulations? - ask the CAA. They are masters in this area. There are pages and pages of rules just waiting to trip up the unwary. Be careful, the CAA will be quick to prosecute if you don't have the right bits of paper.

What a pity they didn't pay so much attention to some other bits of paper - the AAIB reports which recommended the replacement of the clevis lug of the Hughes 300 helicopter. If they had bothered to put pen to paper to implement this recommendation, several people would still be alive today.

Instead, they seem to find it easier to deal with more important issues like prosecuting a well respected pilot for his omission in obtaining a piece of paper that had, by the CAA's own admission, no safety implications whatsoever, and would have been issued had it been asked for.

Seems to me they should take a good long look at their priorities

[Hughes500]

Any FI can instruct on an N reg providing they get sec of state approval. This approval is usualy valid for a certain time, to a certain aircraft and to a certain person.

[Heliport]

Hughes500

Does the FI need an FAA licence or FI rating?
Can you teach anyone or only a student in his own N reg aircraft?



It seems like just more pointless paperwork.
As for the CAA prosecuting anyone when the permit is only a formality ......... pathetic. :rolleyes:

[flyafts]

You can not train students in your N registered aircraft for pay of any kind, under any circumstances in the UK. The owner (in the case of Trust aircraft, up to four owners at a time) may get permission from the DFT to be trained in their N reg aircraft for a limited time only. I was the first and last to be granted permission to train other people in my N reg aircraft , as well as the only person to ever get permission from the DETR (now DFT) to do this. I am the first person to even ask permission. Although the DFT has not officially withdrawn it, the writing is on the wall. The original permission stated 'as long as there are no objections from British flight schools'. By the way, I am a British Flight School!The Objection officially came from Mr Tony Gunn, Flywatch Ltd UK after I have been trading for nearly six years. It's alleged that after being fired from Naples Air Center and Ambassador in Florida, and most recently Willow Air at Southend in the UK, Mr Gunn is now working on bringing down yet another US based company, London Aviation, in Naples Florida. Contact Rachael Maddison at the US Embassy in London for more information about this individual.

Even with the DFT's permission, YOU CAN NOT FLY FOR HIRE ie: instruct, IN THE NON JAA registered aircraft with out the commercial and instructor's licenses issued by the country of registration. It's specifically worded in the ANO and the DFT can't change that. Having CAA/JAA licenses makes no difference and is not required.

Also, YOU CANNOT FLY AN N REGISTERED AIRCRAFT across international boundaries with only a JAR license regardless of the fact that it may be into another JAA country. Although it was indicated in a Flyer article last year that you could, it's not true. This frequent mistake is about to cost a whole bunch of pilots a lot of money in fines.

I am an expert in this area and just to be sure have verified this with both Bob Lynch at the New York FSDO and Ian Weston at the CAA legal department. Both agree, the rules are clear as a bell.

I would also like to point out that although Martin Robinson and Pat Malone of AOPA UK have produced an endless supply of so called N registered and FAA information as fact over the last few months, both in AOPA mag and News from AOPA UK in Pilot mag, I have yet to see one shred of FACT in anything either of them have written about the current situation. The CAA and the DFT are not cracking down on N reg and GA, Martin Robinson and Pat Malone are! If everyone stops this AOPA UK sponsored slagging off of the CAA and the DFT, I think we might just make a bit more progress in promoting general aviation instead of killing it off. By the way, if you ever have an aviation legal problem, don't discuss it with any one at AOPA UK.:* This Ex member won't make that mistake twice.

For more Information contact:
Tom Hughston, CFII
PH: 01603301902
Fax: 01603423733
Email: [email protected]

[jeepys]

Quite simple really. The owner(s) of a N reg a/c can have flight instruction on that a/c provided they get a permit from the Dep. For Transport. In order to get that they need to provide about 6/7 bits of paperwork like ownership details, Airworthiness doc. Registration doc. Maintenance details etc. Takes about two weeks to get.

As for getting paid to do the instruction well of course you need to be a CAA/JAA F.I. and fly from a licensed airfield.

[Hughes500]

Flyafts

Sorry you are wrong, you can get permission to teach in an N reg ac, provided you get D of Tand I permission and permission from the CAA.( the owner of the aircraft is the only person allowed to be taught) I did, the CAA 's enforcement branch even organised it for me and allowed me to examine the pupil for his JAA pplh.

[Telstar]

Flyafts:

The CAA and the DFT are not cracking down on N reg and GA, Martin Robinson and Pat Malone are!

So whats this then:Link (http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_aviation/documents/page/dft_aviation_035972.hcsp)

And I quote from the above link:

It should be noted that the Department is currently reviewing the legislation affecting the use of foreign registered aircraft in the UK. It is possible that the legislation may be amended to prevent foreign registered aircraft which are not involved in commercial air transportation from being permanently based in the UK.

DennisK, I am looking forward to your report as I am following the developments at the DFT closely.

[copterfamily]

Ok, so am I right in saying that if you have the FAA CFI, and work for someone with an N reg aircraft you can teach people to fly in the UK - but the students you teach will get the FAA licences? right?

If this is the case - anyone know someone who has a flight instruction business in the UK using N reg craft?

thanks.