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View Full Version : Sleeping at the wheel (or some irrelevance removed from another thread... yawn)


ILS 119.5
7th Dec 2004, 17:03
What about the guy who came off the m62 and was hit by a train. He had been up all night on the internet. He was jailed. Does this mean that any pilot returning back to the uk, after flying throughout the night, or any controller who has finished a night shift, causes death through lack of sleep. Are they safe from prosecution? Doesn't look like it.

normal_nigel
7th Dec 2004, 17:42
Not with our resident Officer Dibble on the prowl anyway.

bjcc
7th Dec 2004, 18:25
119.5

If you are too tired then don't drive. Says the same in the highway code.

Many other occupations work nights, most of them far longer than certainly an ATCO's, only without being able to sleep. they all manage fairly well.

If you are too tired and drive, then as a result fall asleep at the wheel, then you can expect to end up in court over it yes.

normal_nigel
7th Dec 2004, 18:44
If you are too tired and drive, then as a result fall asleep at the wheel, then you can expect to end up in court over it yes.

".....And I'd take great pleasure in arresting you and branding you a criminal instead of going out and catching some thieves and putting them away."

bjcc
7th Dec 2004, 18:51
Nigel...Nice to hear from you again...

So you would arrest someone for that would you? Interesting, as there is no power to arrest if satisfied as to the persons name and address.........

PoodleVelour
7th Dec 2004, 19:17
I'll have to hope I never have the likes of bjcc on my jury in the event I ever have to go to court. Goodness me, the world is NOT black and white.
I can only fully endorse the views of Nigel, Ark Royal, I-FORD and the others. I do find it rather surprising that one as conversant with the intricacies of the law as bjcc should have missed out on primary spelling though......:E

bjcc
7th Dec 2004, 19:38
PoodleVelour

As you say the world is not black and white, which is why even people who can't spell are able to do most jobs.

On a serious note, what do you suggest then? That some people be able to do what they like so long as the law of the land applies to everyone else?

The question was asked, I have answered it, you may not like the answer, but I'm afraid its a fact of life. Legislation applies equaly to you as it does to anyone else.

normal_nigel
7th Dec 2004, 20:16
Interesting, as there is no power to arrest if satisfied as to the persons name and address.........

er...did you read something I didnt?

No power to arrest for what? Or do the PC Dibble let everyone who commits a crime go if you tell them where you live?

bjcc
7th Dec 2004, 20:40
NN

Quote:
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If you are too tired and drive, then as a result fall asleep at the wheel, then you can expect to end up in court over it yes.
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".....And I'd take great pleasure in arresting you and branding you a criminal instead of going out and catching some thieves and putting them away."

Is what you said.

Well it has your name on the post so I'll presume it's you. Please note your words ..."and I would take great pleasure in arresting you..."

The offence is reckless driving. There is no power to arrest for that offence unless a Constable believes that a summons cannot be served on the person at an address....In other words, If a name and address are supplied and the officer has no reason to believe that the person is not who he says he is, or a summons cannot be served on that person at the address given, then there is no power to arrest.

Quite simple really.

I am surprised that someone of your great and incisive intelligence hadn't already worked that out.

Ilook forward to your next reasoned and logical comment based on fact rather than abuse.

normal_nigel
7th Dec 2004, 21:37
Oh I see. Well your post was so well written it was obvious to everyone. Silly me. How could a Dibble be wrong?

bjcc
7th Dec 2004, 21:40
Gosh Nigel ... You are clever.

witchdoctor
8th Dec 2004, 10:57
Quite right.

I'd be so much more annoyed if somebody stole my VCR than if they killed my wife in a totally avoidable accident.

:rolleyes:

surely not
8th Dec 2004, 15:11
I find it amazing at how subjective some posters on here are with regard to what is a crime and what isn't.

It seems to have no connection with what is legally designated a crime, but breaks down as follows:

1. I don't do that therefore take a hard line and throw away the key (assuming they haven't got the death penalty re-instated).

2. Gosh I might do that, and as further justification so do the majority of other people I know. This law is stupid and should be ignored.

Individual and Corporate Negligence which might result in someone else's death is punishable by law. In my world I would be really angry if someone drove whilst in an unfit condition and killed one of my family or friends. Driving whilst too tired is not acceptable under any circumstances. It is easy enough to snatch 40 winks and regain a workable level of attention span. In these days of over crowded motorways and 'A' roads it is not far off being, IMHO, unspecific pre meditated murder.

I don't care whether it a Dustman an ATCO or a Pilot, driving whilst too tired to remain awake is not acceptable.

CarltonBrowne the FO
8th Dec 2004, 16:10
Trying to keep as narrowly as possible to the original question: when driving home after a night shift, it is reasonable to assume that a responsible adult would have arranged to be fully rested before work. FTLs, and their equivalent for ATCOs, lorry drivers et al are not intended to work the individual to the point where they collapse from exhaustion at the end of the paperwork (much as some employers might like it if they were).
If you are too tired to fly, don't fly. Call in sick. If you finish work, but find yourself too tired to drive safely, don't drive. Get a hotel room, or a taxi, or a lift, or whatever.
If you are driving, and find yourself getting too sleepy to continue, stop as soon as you safely can. Turn the engine off. If you are expected somewhere, phone ahead to say you will be a few hours late. Go to sleep in the car.
All the above is only advice. However, if you choose to disregard it, you should expect to be held responsible for the consequences.

panda-k-bear
9th Dec 2004, 15:11
Shouldn't worry about it - speed cameras can't tell if you're tired or not. And if it isn't speed related, it isn't important.

Or is it?

Unwell_Raptor
9th Dec 2004, 15:47
Reckless driving no longer applies (although I liked the poster in another place who called it Wreckless Driving, which is what I strive to achieve).

It's either careless or dangerous these days. Reckless proved to be near enough impossible for the prosecution to prove.