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pullock
7th Dec 2004, 06:35
Whilst I know I should not be one to attempt to correct anybodies spelling in any way because lets face it mine is pretty poor, there is one thing that realy burns me.

Americanisation of our spelling.

I am seeing it more and more, and I just wanted to remind everyone that we use "S" in stead of "z" if it's "ised" and we fly in AEROPLANES not airplanes.

Having said that I am still not sure that maybe since the yanks invented the things that perhaps their spelling should be the correct one because they would have named em :suspect:

18-Wheeler
7th Dec 2004, 06:52
Totally agree!
The Seppification of Aus is just terrible ..... I can't believe what sheep people are in taking on such things from television, etc.

BTW, the Americans didn't invent the aeroplane, nor were they the first to fly one.

Air Ace
7th Dec 2004, 06:59
".....that maybe since the yanks invented the things...."

Oh, indeed? I don't think so! :*

Man's first powered flight. (http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/pearse1.html)

maxgrad
7th Dec 2004, 07:13
airace
maybe he didn't get much coverage because he just stuck it on a pole, or is it some ritualistic way the ancient islanders displaye their trophy kills?:E

I use the word aircraft normally as it can be used over a greater number of subject areas

DeltaSix
7th Dec 2004, 07:51
So, does that mean we should be saying AEROCRAFT as well ?.....

I use aircraft so I use airplane. It uses AIR over the wing for lift.....


Here we go......... duck for cover :uhoh:



DeltaSix

Ultralights
7th Dec 2004, 09:23
Its GAOL not Jail!

Eastwest Loco
7th Dec 2004, 09:41
Very early articles around the time of Bleriot and his mates refer to the flying machines as "aerodromes" rather than that being a landing place.

I will personally stick with aeroplane.

If it is and was good enough for Sir Charles Kingsford-Smith, then it is good enough for me.

Best all.

EWL

18-Wheeler
7th Dec 2004, 09:44
.... and FWIW when those best-known second-place brothers in the aviation trade talked about their flying machine, they too called it an aeroplane.
The be-manglement of the word occurred some time later.

pullock
7th Dec 2004, 10:17
Thanks for the support on this one ppls - when I posted it i thought I was going to get shot down in flames for being a pedant rather than a patriot - even though my history is clearly as bad as my spelling!!

maxgrad
7th Dec 2004, 10:23
tell you the truth most people in my neckothawoods say modaplane but I really think thats pushing it too far:E

Duff Man
7th Dec 2004, 10:58
ultralights, it's prison not gaol :p and it's it's not its.

pullock I used to be worried but discovered that many aussie words have crept in over there, so we could probably be happy with the mutual enrichment of the language, which - as it always has - evolved over time.

Why do we say "aluminium"?

18-Wheeler
7th Dec 2004, 12:41
Why do we say "aluminium"?


It was originally named 'AluminUm' by the British bloke that discovered it, and that name was also taken on by the Americans. However, that same bloke that found it decided a couple of years later to change it to 'aluminIUm' so it would end in the same way as may other metals in the periodic table.
The Americans kept the original spelling.

Lodown
7th Dec 2004, 15:19
Thank goodness thine language hast continued to evolve whilst other tongues hast perished.

Sunfish
7th Dec 2004, 19:33
Geez, u r all stffed up about spllng? plns r cool.

rescue 1
7th Dec 2004, 20:59
Microsoft are behind this Americanization of the world!

People should turn off their spell checker, and then we would go back to z :D

karrank
7th Dec 2004, 22:35
Fair go for Microsoft, instead of whining at your 'puter's spelling why not change your dictionary to English (Australian)? That still leaves a long list of things to grizzle at Microsoft about though...

Aircraft for me, even if I get ridges on my @rse from the fence sitting

Atlas Shrugged
7th Dec 2004, 22:45
Isn't it Microzoft? ;)

Capn Bloggs
7th Dec 2004, 23:16
Crusty old instructor to newbe: "It's an aeroplane, laddy. Planes shave wood".

Pinky the pilot
8th Dec 2004, 00:35
The only spell checker I use is the one in my head!
I was taught English proper!!:E
And Americans do not speak English!!

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

Travelair
8th Dec 2004, 00:53
too many unemployed pilots...

Howard Hughes
8th Dec 2004, 05:11
Microsoft are behind this Americanization of the world!

I completed high school long before Bill Gates left college and took on the world. Even back then 's' or 'z' were both acceptable forms of spelling!!

Thank goodness thine language hast continued to evolve whilst other tongues hast perished.

Exactly! Even though I think its "hath perished".

If we were'nt in a constant world of change, we would still be flying "Aeroplanes" built by those 2 yanks (or whomever we agree flew first) and most of us Aussies would still be in "Gaol".

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

Eastwest Loco
8th Dec 2004, 07:59
I never went away from Zed rescue.

My 20 year old 300ZX is sitting in my garage wearing a gorgeous cologne of hot oil as we speak - and - she was designed for the American market.

If anyone calls her a Zee Ex they will be summarily slapped!! :}

Best regards

EWL

Pinky the pilot
8th Dec 2004, 08:10
For the record I left my secondary education at the SA leaving certificate level (now year 11) at the end of 1971.
Anyone who said 'zee' for the letter 'zed' would have been taken out and shot!! At dawn for the next six weeks!!!
Eastwest Loco; if ever I get down your way I shall insist that you take me for a 'fang' in the 300. Always wanted one but could never afford same.
'Though I am quite happy with my 74 Celica with the worked twin cam!!:ok: :ok:

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

Eastwest Loco
8th Dec 2004, 08:51
No problemo Pinky - you have the right hand seat with the rooves out - weather permitting mate.

I had the '74 Celica - yellow with black vinyly top but never went twin-cam sadly.

Miss Z was a steal when I got her, $6000 with a new steering rack, new 3" system and has been rebuilt not too long ago.

She is gorgeous.

Best regards

EWL

Arkroyal
8th Dec 2004, 09:02
And annuver fing:

Planes is wot carpenters use:yuk:

Fris B. Fairing
8th Dec 2004, 10:32
They may claim to have invented the object of our desires but they didn't invent the language. It's aeroplane.

There's a thread going on Spectators Balcony which asks "What's your favourite plane?". I sang the praises of my old reliable Stanley which was handed down from my grandfather but I note that my post has been deleted. Philistines!

Lodown
8th Dec 2004, 12:22
Pinky, I trust you pronounce "Celica" as the Japanese intended.

Duff Man
8th Dec 2004, 22:45
OK Duff Man has consulted the oracle (http://www.macquariedictionary.com.au/) for a final word.

aeroplane n an aircraft, heavier than air, kept aloft by the upward thrust exerted by the passing air on its fixed wings, and driven by propellers, jet propulsion, etc Also, Chiefly US, airplane. (F aéroplane)

aircraft n any machine supported for flight in the air by bouyancy (such as baloons and other lighter-than-air craft) or by dynamic action of air on its surfaces (such as aeroplanes, helicopters, gliders, and other heavier-than-air craft).

And from another oracle (http://www.api-network.com/cgi-bin/page?publications/books/1740513215.api)

aircraft Non-helicopter aerial vehicle. "When asked why the Black Hawks had not been entered on the mission sheet detailing the aircraft in the air that day, the USAF serviceperson responsible said: 'We don't consider helicopters to be aircraft.' " (New Scientist, April 2003, on why two USAF fighter planes shot down two US army helicopters in Iraq in 1994) "It's a bird! It's a plane! It's a friendly-fire incident."

plane 4. an aeroplane 5. aeronautics a thin, flat, or curved, extended member of an aeroplane or a hydroplane, affording a supporting surface.

zed a name for the letter Z

zee Chiefly US a name for the letter Z

gaol -> jail (ME gay(h)ole, gaile from ONF gaiole, gaole, from L cavea cavity, enclosure, cage. See JAIL)

jail 1. a prison 2. to take into or hold in custody; imprison ... usage: in general the spelling of this word has shifted in Australian English from gaol to jail. However, gaol remains fossilised in the names of jails, as Parramatta Gaol, and in some government usage.

I don't have too much time on my hands. I'm late for work.

reynoldsno1
8th Dec 2004, 23:09
You've got to admit, though, that Zed Zed Top just doesn't sound right....:eek:

Arm out the window
8th Dec 2004, 23:19
How is 'Celica' supposed to be pronounced?
I've always said it 'Sell-eca', except when wanting to annoy people who own them by saying 'Silly-car'.

NAMPS
9th Dec 2004, 00:19
I pronounce 'Celica' as 'Sel-LEE-ka' (emphasis on the LEE).

I find it funny how the yanks call a Nissan a "Neesarn" :}

Arkroyal
9th Dec 2004, 06:47
And make absolutely no attempt to pronounce foreign words except garridge and fillet

Duff Man
9th Dec 2004, 06:51
NAMPS, that's how the Japs pronounce it. Last time I heard, Nissan is a Japanese company. We've managed to strine it like most of their words. Carry-oh-key? I don't think so!

Eastwest Loco
9th Dec 2004, 07:22
US pronunciation seems to be "sell-ic-car" phoentically and Aussie seems to be "selleeka". Doesnt matter a damn, as the early Celicas were wonderful.

They had an awesome model on the drawing boards - 6 cylinder grand tourer - when the Zed car hit the pavement, but never went ahead with it. It was an amazing looking beast in it's prototype form, and would have given the Z a run for the money.

The 350Z has fallen into the trap Toyota did with the Z car. It isn't one. Toyota nearly has the plot back, but Nissan probably has a model change and 2+2 targa config to bring the dream alive again. If it aint broke, do NOT try to fix it.

Zee Zee Top is allowed - you cant drive them.

Best all

EWL

The ultimate Zedophile.

Pinky the pilot
9th Dec 2004, 07:59
Eastwest Loco; Thank you for the offer Sir! If I ever get down your way I shall take you up on it.:ok:
But staying somewhat off thread; my dream car, if I can ever get back to Nippon to purchase same is.....
A 1992 2.5lit 6cyl twin turbo Toyota Supra.:ok: :ok:
Red, of course!:ok:

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

Lodown
9th Dec 2004, 13:36
Eastwest and Duff have got it right.

Doesnt matter a damn, as the early Celicas were wonderful.

Absolutely right! Airplane/Aeroplane? I use both.

NAMPS
9th Dec 2004, 21:33
Duff Man

That may be the way that the Japanese pronounce it, but they are pronouncing it in the Japanese language. "Nissan" is the 'anglocised' word.

Applying commonly used English phonetics to anglocised words from foreign languages does not aways reflect how it is pronounced in the foreign language - perhaps they should have called it "Neesarn" :ok: :8

Lodown
9th Dec 2004, 22:02
This might help the discussion:

From: http://www.etymonline.com/

aeroplane
1866, from Fr. aéroplane (1855), from Gk. aero- "air" + stem of planer "to soar" (see plane (1)). Originally in ref. to surfaces (such as the protective shell casings of beetles' wings); meaning "heavier than air flying machine" first attested 1873, probably an independent Eng. coinage (see airplane).

airplane
1907, from air + plane; though the original references are British, the word caught on in Amer.Eng., where it largely superseding earlier aeroplane (1873, and still common in British Eng.; q.v.). Aircraft is also from 1907; airship is 1888, from Ger. Luftschiff "motor-driver dirigible." Air-raid first attested 1914, in ref. to British attacks on Cologne and Dusseldorf in WWI.

poteroo
11th Dec 2004, 12:07
Try to locate the old Aeroplane Jelly jingle/TV advert - listen or watch it a couple times - and then try not to crack-up whenever you hear the term a-e-r-o-p-l-a-n-e. Bet not one of you can suppress a huge grin!

happy days,

Islander Jock
11th Dec 2004, 12:55
G'day RV6,

Yes I remember those ads back in the b&w days with Joy King on the swing seat singing and the bouncing ball on the lyrics at the bottom of the screen.
I almost hear half the PPRUNERS here saying b&w? WTF is that?:p

Tinstaafl
11th Dec 2004, 20:19
"I like aeroplane jellyyyyyy.
Aeroplane jelly for meeeee!"

blueloo
12th Dec 2004, 00:54
So for yanks, does that translate into :

"I Like Airplane Jello, Airplane Jello for me!"





One of those many things I can never figure out, they put Peanut Butter and Jelly (as in our strawberry Jam) on their sambos, yet, they eat Jello (As in our jelly) for a dessert etc.

(When i picture this i think of bread, a layer of peanut butter, then about 2 inches of red wobbly jelly and then the other slice of bread)


I guess Jello is a brand name from Gelatine?



The other thing with the yanks, I presumably from the movies - when they order a drink . "I'd like a soda please" (Not the sparkling mineral water variety
)


What flavoUr do they get?

bush pelican
12th Dec 2004, 03:29
The Dream Will Finally Come True
The European Commission have just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the EU rather than German, which was the other possibility. As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty's government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5-year phase in plan that would be known as "EuroEnglish":

In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c"-- Sertainly this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favor of the "k". This should klear up konfusion and keyboards kan have 1 less letter.

There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" wil be replaced with the "f". This will make words like "fotograf" 20% shorter.

In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expected to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible.
Governments will enkorage the removal of double letters, which have always been a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of the silent "e"'s in the language is disgraceful, and they should go away.

By the 4th yar peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th"
with "z" and "w" with "v". During ze fifz yar, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters. After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech ozer.

ZE DREM VIL FINALI KUM TRU!!

Far Canard
14th Dec 2004, 01:31
The Yanks cater to the lowest common denominator and make things simple. That is why their aircraft and products are so prolific in the world.

Pressurization - Spoken as written i.e Zation
Pressurisation - Spoken differently - should be sation

ABCDE..... ends with ZED

Yanks ADCDE.... ends with ZEE

Yous fellas is too picky for us bros. I done english at skool and I is good.

FreakedoutFlyer
14th Dec 2004, 03:42
Pullock,
That the yanks did the first powered flight is not so certain. While the Wright brothers have the notoriety Richard Pearse of NZ may well have beaten them into the air by several months.
Check these links.
Cheers.
FF

http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/Gallery/Pearse/Pearse.html
http://www.acehobby.co.nz/ossb2/club/manz/Celebration.htm
http://www.nzedge.com/heroes/pearse.html
http://www.nzine.co.nz/pearse.html

Fris B. Fairing
14th Dec 2004, 04:53
There's a surprise. They're all NZ websites.

Eastwest Loco
14th Dec 2004, 07:41
I was under the impression Harry Houdini actually flew an aeroplane in public demonstration in South Australia days before the Wright Brothers.

Anyone else read or heard of that?

Best all

EWL

maxgrad
14th Dec 2004, 11:56
From what I recall he also made a flight to land at Diggers Rest in Melb. Got a bit of a memorial there

Eastwest Loco
15th Dec 2004, 08:47
Max

My memory seems to target regional Sout Australia - possibly Murray Bridge, Bordertown or around there - on the way to Diggers Rest if in a travelling show I guess.

All I know for sure is that there is well ignored historical reference to Harry being first, and the bike boys second.

Best regards

EWL

pullock
15th Dec 2004, 23:42
Maybe an aeroplane should be named a victa then :} :}

Woomera
16th Dec 2004, 00:04
EWL. Harry Houdini (born Erik Weisz in Budapest, Hungary, on March 24, 1874), bought a Voisin airplane in Hamburg, Germany in December 1909. In March of 1910 (over six years after the Wright's first flight), at the controls of his recent acquisition, Houdini gained acclaim as the first person to achieve aerial flight over Australia.

The Wrights first flew on Thursday, December 17, 1903.

Richard Pearse first flew at Waitohi, New Zealand on March 31, 1902, nine months before the Wrights and almost exactly eight years before Harry Houdini conducted the first flight in Australia.

Woomera

Fris B. Fairing
16th Dec 2004, 00:06
EWL et al

I quote from "Flypast - A Record of Aviation in Australia" by Neville Parnell and Trevor Boughton. (AGPS ISBN 0 644 07918 5):

Quote:

6 Feb 1910
Ehrich Weiss, known as Harry Houdini, arrived in Melbourne aboard RMS Malwa; a Voisin biplane and mechanic A. Brassac arrived in the SS Bremen on 19 Feb 1910 ... the Voisin was transported to Digger's Rest V and assembled; the attempted flight on 17 Mar 1910 failed because of engine (60 hp ENV) problems; 18 Mar 1910 made three flights 1-3.5 mins duration, the last flight covering over 2 miles; the flights were certified in writing by nine observers, and claimed as the first in Australia; a trophy was awarded by the Aerial League of Australia ; further flights were made on 19, 20 and 21 Mar 1910. from 26 secs to 7 mins 37 secs; this latter flight was certified:

Digger's Rest, Mar 21, 1910
This document certifies Harry Houdini, at 7 o'clock this morning, performed the record Australian flight in a Voisin biplane, remaining in the air for 7 minutes 37 seconds, in the presence of 30 witnesses, including the undersigned. Houdini's movements were plainly hampered by a cross current of wind, which was pronounced by experienced spectators to be distinctly dangerous. He reached a height of from 90 feet to 100 feet.

Unquote.

The document bore 16 signatures. Subsequent flights were made at Sydney's Rosehill Racecourse on 18 Apr 1910. Houdini sailed for Vancouver on 11 May 1910.

The book is highly recommended. It may still be available at Government Bookstores.

Cheers

Woomera, EWL et al

I don\'t pretend to have done any research on Richard Pearse and indeed the only reference I have is "The Riddle of Richard Pearse" by Gordon Ogilvie (Reed 1973 ISBN 0 589 00794 7).

Appendix II is a letter written by R.W. Pearse and published in "The Star", Christchurch, NZ on 15 Sep 1928. Pearse discusses in some detail his patents and those of the Wright Bros. (He claims to have invented "ailerons" in 1904 and which he patented in 1906). His concluding paragraph states:

"It is impossible to assign any invention wholly to one man, as all inventions are the product of many minds, and the most we can do is to give the man who had done the most some pre-eminence. As the Wrights were the first to make a successful flight in a motor-driven aeroplane, they will be given pre-eminence when the history of the aeroplane is written."

His graciousness is truly remarkable.

Cheers


Hey Woomera. What's happened here? It's tacked my second message on to my first. Finger trouble bilong Fris?

Woomera
16th Dec 2004, 05:31
Nogat, Fris. If you post two successive posts, they will appear in one posting window. It's to stop the children playing havoc with our bulletin board.........!!! :}

I was aware of Pearce's acknowledgement of the Wrights first flight, however I suspect Pearce shunned publicity and as his first flight ended up in a hedge, felt he had failed to conduct "a successful flight in a motor-driven aeroplane."

I guess it comes down to what constitutes a successful flight? As I believe a successful landing is "any landing you can walk away from", Richard Pearce successfully flew before the Wright brothers.

Eastwest Loco
16th Dec 2004, 07:10
Thanks for that Fris and Woomera.

I knew someone beat the Wright boys, but memory is failing obviously.

best regards

EWL

Fris B. Fairing
16th Dec 2004, 09:05
Woomera

It strikes me that publicity shy persons are not normally given to writing letters for publication in newspapers. For Pearse to go on the public record deferring to the Wrights was, as I said previously, remarkably gracious.

The following website has some useful comments (the bolding is mine):

www.first-to-fly.com (http://www.first-to-fly.com)

Click on "History of the Airplane" then "Wannabees".

"The Wright brothers never claimed to be the first to fly. In his earliest scientific paper, presented to the Western Society of Engineers in 1901, Wilbur Wright alluded to English inventor Hiram Maxim, who launched a steam-powered biplane with a three-man crew on an unintentional flight in 1893 with disastrous consequences. The crew survived, but due to the lack of suitable controls, the machine was wrecked.

Wilbur and Orville Wright wished to be remembered for making the first controlled and sustained powered flight. Their greatest contribution to aviation was the development of three-axis aerodynamic controls -- roll, pitch, and yaw -- and the piloting skills needed to use them effectively."

Cheers

Edited the link.

Woomera
17th Dec 2004, 05:18
Fris. Indeed, an interesting discussion! In all fairness, I understand the Wright's claim to fame is based more on a 1944 agreement by the Smithsonian Institute for return of the Wright Flyer from the UK.

I have on occasions come across other references to those who attempted to defy gravity, with various degrees of success, and who pre date Richard Pearce.

As an interesting aside, my Grandfather (who passed away in the early 1950's) rememberd that era of early flight. I recall him saying that never again will be see such rapid development as that which occurred in aviation between 1910 and the First World War! I wonder what he'd say now if knew Concorde flew within a decade or so of his passing and man has walked on the moon.

Woomera

Fris B. Fairing
17th Dec 2004, 05:48
Woomera

Yes, it's amazing to contemplate. My dear old Grandmother (who only just missed out on the Royal telegram) saw the whole thing, Wright Brothers to Concorde, in her lifetime. Given that today is December 17, shall we agree that this powered flight nonsense has been going on for at least 101 years?

Cheers

Blacksheep
18th Dec 2004, 08:04
just to throw a spanner in the works, my dog-eared old edition of Chambers describes the "ised" version as being an American usage. The correct English version would thus be "ized".

Flap 5
18th Dec 2004, 08:20
It is interesting to read Bill Bryson's book 'Made in America'. It would appear that our colonial friends are using more original english words than the english. In Britain the language has evolved more rapidly. Words like aint are now considered as slang whereas it was a correct old english word. Maybe US english is actually more correct than modern British english!

Feeton Terrafirma
18th Dec 2004, 08:53
we fly in AEROPLANES not airplanes

I don't fly in paperplanes, so why would I fly in an airplane? Who ever thought of making one from air anyway?

Davaar
18th Dec 2004, 14:53
Gosh, I remember aerodromes, and aeroplanes, and gramophones, and records, and wireless, and Messerschmitt 109s (NOT Bf 109), and HF/DF, and ............... Zzzzzzzzzzz.

Grandpa
18th Dec 2004, 20:17
And please don't forget the accent on first "e" because, as Lodown signalled it, THIS IS A FRENCH WORD.

In French regulation the word "aérodyne" was used when I began flying............Too lazy to check what they print now.

Davaar
18th Dec 2004, 21:35
So much gets lost in translation. One remembers the RN officer who sent a signal regarding a disaster area he had investigated. As he put it, the victims were sans beurre et sans brioches.

Loki
18th Dec 2004, 22:32
Mind you, yank spelling can sometimes help.

Eg. "program" which refers to the computer variety versus our "programme" which is what one listens to on the wireless/radio....thus resolving any confusion.

JustaFew
18th Dec 2004, 22:43
Had to explain to my children that a METRE is a measurement of distance, but a METER could be a parking meter, or a gas meter, perhaps even an electricity meter.

So why do the Americans use METER in any context even though they are different??????

Maybe it's toooo subtle.........

pigboat
19th Dec 2004, 00:21
Well, all seem to agree that the conveyance in question is some sort of "plane." The disagreement seems to be on the spelling of the medium in which it moves. I'm going with "air" on this one. :E