ICAO Licence

[otter712]

Several times now I have run into an advertisement for an opening as a pilot where the requirements state: a JAA licence or ICAO ATP. What is this ICAO licence ? So far I found that the US is a member of the ICAO, but can anybody tell me what this means for a FAA comercial or ATP. Can we convert to this ICAO, get an equivalent or are we ICAO and therefore recognized in the case ICAO ATP is required. Unfortunately the webside from ICAO isnt to clear in what "the US beeing an ICAO member" means for you and it would be nice if anybody with experience in the matter could find the time to explain this to me in a simplified manner.
Thank you .

Ron

[alouette]

This much I know about all this trash; if you hold a FAA commercial, IFR or ATP you cannot convert but have to go through all these nice exams to get an ICAO license rewarded-provided that you pass. Once you got the ICAO license someone else steps on your toes and asks for a JAA license and the whole shebang starts from the beginning. :yuk:

Actually I forgot it should read "ICAO nonsense"

[pilotwolf]

Quite simple...

The USA is a member of ICAO therefore an FAA licence, PPL/CPL/ATP is an ICAO licence - end of story!

If you want a JAA/any other country licence then that's a different matter... you ll have to jump through their respective hoops!

PW

[FixedRotaryWing]

To be an ICAO license it is not sufficient that the issuing state is a member of the ICAO. The training and examination must conform to the ICAO requirements that an issued license is an ICAO license.

[pilotwolf]

For example.. (http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/licensing/faq.asp?faqid=208) states:

A licence issued by any other ICAO Contracting State (including a JAA State that has not yet been recommended for mutual recognition) is also deemed to be valid under the ANO for the purposes of flying a UK registered aircraft, providing that the licence and medical are valid in accordance with the rules/laws of the issuing State, and the CAA does not in the particular case give direction to the contrary.

Or...

Validation of Foreign Licenses

1. The Convention on International Civil Aviation, often called the Chicago Convention, provides for world-wide recognition of flight crew licences issued by any member State of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) provided that:

a) the licence meets or exceeds the ICAO licensing Standards of Annex 1 (Personnel Licensing) to the Convention on International Civil Aviation; and

b) the licence is used on an aircraft which is registered in the State which has issued or validated the licence.

2. If the licence is to be used on an aircraft which is not registered in the issuing State, the licence holder must obtain a validation of the licence from the State of Registry or alternatively obtain a new licence issued by the State of Registry on the basis of the original licence. The Convention on International Civil Aviation and its Annex 1 do not provide for the validation of licences. As a result, conditions under which validation is granted vary from State to State. It depends on the level of privileges required and on the origin of the licence. It is generally easy to obtain a validation for VFR private flights, but more stringent rules may exist for professional licences. The applicant may be required to get additional training and/or to take new exams. As an alternative to validate a foreign licence, a State may issue a licence which is based on the foreign licence held by the applicant. The condition for the issuance of this new licence is generally similar to that of a validation.

3. ICAO is unfortunately not in a position to provide information on the details of the validation procedures established by each of its member States. The most reliable source of information is the Licensing Authority of the State in which the licence is to be validated, and at times Consulates and Embassies may be helpful.

PW

[XT244]

pilotwolf, your posting ist absolute correct but not fully complete. There are many exceptions.
The 3 german language countrys, Switzerland, Germany and Austria have a „Memorandum of Understanding“. This contract contains simple Licence Regulations.

Example:
A Swiss with a permanent Residence in Switzerland can flight a German Helo in Austria.
Only if a Swiss has a permanently Residence in Germany, then he must convert his Swiss-Licence to an German Licence.

And all other combinations, of course.

[Lightning_Boy]

I always thought a ICAO licence was any licence issued by a country, which is part of the ICAO agreement???

[Martin1234]

In the UK, you can go for a national licence or just plain simply a normal JAR licence. The latter complies with the minimum requirements set by the ICAO but the first one doesn't. This is why you can, even though it's very rare, get a certificate issued by an ICAO country which isn't issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1.

[alouette]

Nicely said about the FAA license being an ICAO license but there is one teeny twist in there. The U.S. is an ICAO member and e.g. Austria is an ICAO member.

Please explain then if one comes rattling on the door with a FAA certificate this individual has to do the whole lot of ground examinations to obtain an austrian pilot certificate - knowingly Austria is not JAA but ICAO at least until now.:hmm:

[pilotwolf]

...it all depends what you want to do with it and on what country the aircraft is registered!!!:)

It's still an ICAO licence but the country you want to (usually) work in then starts being awkward...

..seems I can happily kill myself and passengers using my ICAO licence in all(?) he member countries as long as I m not earning money for doing so it. :(

PW