airport security hitlers

[aerocom]

I dont know if i can say hitlers on here, but anyway reading V100PS comment on the read it and weep folks thread I was wondering if anyone else who is a pilot with an ASIC card has had to go through the hoops. Before anyone says anything about them terrosists boarding my plane and so on, they do do a good job but some and only a few go overboard. Recently at Canberra I had to remove shoes, belt and all other things metal. While at another airport I was waved through. Another crew went through the screening process and had there nail files etc taken off them only to be returned to the captain at the aircraft. Go figure. Anyway has anyone else had a similar incident.

[maxgrad]

AS and DN airports are good for that type of personal derobe stuff
There is an intensity setting on the security door frames they use but I am guessing they have turned the dial to 11 after 911.

I go through the side doors now with appropriate security cards, retinal scan, full internal inspection and so on.

[aerocom]

Maxgrad

Yeah Darwin has also given me greef. the chick was giving me a laugh as i said to the other crew now listen to one else has any knifes or handgradnades etc.
all good fun.

[Howard Hughes]

The easiest way, is go through airside entrance, swipe card and hey presto, me, my leatherman and swiss army knife are all out on the tarmac without having to derobe.

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

[Pimp Daddy]

Good luck getting even a sharpened mango thru Melbourne. Even thru the loading dock entrance, only way is thru the turnstiles by the canteen.

Although I had to laugh at the loading dock the other week, tradies taking their tool belts off, then putting them thru the x-ray with screwdrivers, stanley knives etc, the putting them back on and wandering off airside.

[Howard Hughes]

Pimp Daddy,

only way is thru the turnstiles by the canteen.

Yep, that's the way!!

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

[Pinky the pilot]

Yes well that's all very fine Gentlemen; now let's put ourselves in the security peoples shoes for a second.
What is their training? ie what have they actually been told to do or look for?
How much training have they actually recieved before being put out on 'the front line'?
Have they recieved adequate training to be able to dismiss or ignore smart arsed comments about hand grenades or pistols etc from passengers they have to screen? Not to mention outright hostility from some members of the public whom apparently think that some laws, whilst seemingly necessary to protect them from possible harm should not neccessarily apply to themselves.
And finally, do you have any idea of their pay scale?

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[Islander Jock]

PTP,
Well said. Did a little bit of security work about 20 yrs ago. Not to mention countless guard duties during 21 yrs in the army. (many of them extra training my SSM thought I needed :E
For civvies, it is a thankless, mind numbing, sh1t paid job. But from my many experiences of travel out of oz, the courtesy and respect you receive from them is commensurate with what you show.

Be thankful people you do not have the kind of security and staff that plague the airports in West Africa.:yuk:

At least in Oz they don't demand you open your wallet and ask "do you have anything for me?"

[BankAngle50]

I don’t know why we even bother with these ASIC cards, as they are obviously completely useless.

I wanted to get a Coffee @ DRW last week around 12:30am and “beep!” The Troglodyte in the security uniform pounced on me immediately and demanded that I remove my watch, shoes and wings! Faced with this idiotic demand I simply returned a smile to the expressionless simpleton grasping the wand, turned around and walked off. I’m sure his grade 8 education was stretched to its limits as he tried to understand my actions. I entered using the aerobridge airside—easy!
The renta Thugs @ SYD are in my opinion the worst.

Why is it that if we are in uniform and hold a valid ASIC card, we are not simply waived through? I have seen AA pilot’s @ LAX walk straight through “beep!!!” and then the screening of pax recommences. The TSA seem quite happy with this; and this is the home of 9-11.

Aercom is correct to describe these assholes as “Airport Security Hitlers!’

These people should be trained and screened like the TSA; then perhaps with the aid of pictures we can help them identify aircrew.

[maxgrad]

PTP yep!
also did security many years back so know the drill
Also know many security people couldn't rub two brain cells together!!
Yes we know they have a job to do and blah blah....
Why after all the security sreening do you get a KNIFE and fork in the canteen when they have now got countless boxes of nail files, bottle openers etc all from security screening.
Is there some form of perverse logic to this?

(excuse any spelling as its in the middle of the night here)

[Ibex]

Quite simple.

As has been said here before, don't bother passing through the terminal with the riff raff.

That is why you have an asic.

Swipe through airside without even bothering the group 4 monkeys.

:confused:

[Ultralights]

funny thing, boarded flight SYD to BNE, usual beeps, wand over the shoes showed them my car keys, wand all over, clear to go, no disrobing (this time) arrive BNE, then went downstairs to board a Dash 8 to Bundy, within 2 mins i was practically naked! shoes off, belt off, empty every pocket, jumper off!........... if i was going to hijack anything, i wouldnt choose a Dash 8.

[Capt Claret]

BankAngle50

My personal view is that the security regime is way over the top. If one has an ASIC, then one should be "waived through".

Given that my personal view holds no water with DOTARS or the Federal Govt. what you did by entering a sterile area through the aerobridge without being security screened was an offence. DOTARS carry out audits of various ports and raise all sorts of hell when they catch some one doing similar things.

Regretably we (aircrew/eng/airline staff) can only enter a sterlie area without being screened in the direct pursuit of our jobs. That is, we can go to the POCO office, or the boarding gate to board, BUT we CAN't go to the coffee shop as well! :mad:

[pullock]

The thing that realy annoys me about securitar is that it has been thrust upon us by people who are only motivated to increase the viability of their industry. The securitar people say 11/9 and puffed out their chests with their new found ability to control others, and we have let them get away with it.

The next thing that annoys me about it all is that the government siezed the moment as well with a view to take total control over peoples lives, under the guise that it will be safer for us all - even though we were already safe, and the only thing that has made us unsafe has been out prime ministers flag waving in other peoples countries.

Aonther thing that annoys me is that the securitar at airports is entirely a farce - the only people who are subject to it are the fare paying passengers, whilst there is essentially NO securitar on the ground where the most damage can be done - yet PAX are strip searched and treated as guilty until proven innocent in the terminal. This goes to show that the so called threat doesn't exist and that if it did it would have been done by now with ease.

History - if it is still allowed to be written truthfully in the future will show how the governments of the day have siezed on paronoia to kill civil liberty and freedom in this period. Gattaca here we come.

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Try being a smoker and going through security each time you go for a smoke :uhoh:

[Towering Q]

I was picking up my pax off the burner and attempting to get them through securitar and out into the 'sterile' area where my trusty spamcan was parked. The usual regional airport scenario.

The surveyer pax had to open his case of tricks to be examined, fair enough, but the securitar guy just looked at all the surveying type equipment with a vacant stare and said, "What's all this stuff?"

Surveyer pax said, "Well this is my theodolite and this...."

Securitar guy then turned to me and said, "Will this be going in the hold?" I then advised him that if the area behind the back seat constituted a hold then the answer was yes. I got an even more vacant stare, but we got through.:ok:

[grrowler]

So someone walks up to the security checkpoint wearing a pilots uniform and a red card with his pic on it (a "valid ASIC"?) and simply gets waved through... because "I'm a pilot n I shouldn't have to be subjected to this degrading procedure!"
Then he passes on his terrorist DIY kit to his mate boarding the next aircraft. What a brilliant idea!

[Mr.Buzzy]

Nobody has said that ggrowler but some consistency would be nice. Without mentioning job descriptions, why dont some airside staff endure this crap while others have to?
Looking for sinister objects is pointless...... We all need to be looking for sinister minds!

bbbzzzzzzzzzzbzbzzzzbzbzbzbzbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[grrowler]

Mr Buzzy, yes, BankAngle50 has said that:

Why is it that if we are in uniform and hold a valid ASIC card, we are not simply waived through?

The inconsistencies are a problem, like how I can walk straight through the detector in Sydney wearing my shoes, yet in Cairns have to take them off, or in Perth I was told I could carry as many ciggy lighters as I wanted on my person, but not in checked bags, but in Sydney was told the exact opposite. Or that pax from almost any regional port could board a citybound flight carrying an uzi if they wanted to.

What needs to be remembered is that it is an attempt to increase the safety of our flights, not inconvenience us.

[DutchRoll]

I keep telling you to give up smoking PAF!

If you guys reckon it's bad in Oz, try going through LAX. It's a struggle to retain your sense of humour. Also pointless I guess, as the yanks don't understand it anyway.

[BankAngle50]

Capt. Claret
I totally agree with your comments; indeed I committed an offense by entering a sterile area through the aerobridge. Here in lies the systematic failure of this system; as technically I committed an offense by doing a walk around in DRW in a secure area and when I went inside the terminal to get a WX printout, as I had not been screened in BNE where I departed. Similarly, we commit an offense every time we change an aircraft without being screened. When I raised these inconsistencies with my airlines head of security I was told, “we don’t talk about that, and I’m happy not to know that it happens!” The point here is that our companies require us to commit an offense every day in order to do our jobs, whilst you and I will be the ones in court if some nerd from DOTARS wants to make a point. Whilst I totally agree with your comments Claret, I believe this is security gone mad, akin to the USA patriot act!

Grrowler - Wake up son! Sadly you’ve pissed the point. A Valid ASIC verifies the holder as someone permitted to be unsupervised in the secure area. If you are stating the integrity of the ASIC ID has been compromised by fraud than I suggest you ring the federal police immediately; otherwise we can assume they are valid and hence the holder should not be subject to the same degree of scrutiny of a non holder. This is simple logic is it not? Perhaps you have forgotten the 4 aircraft on 9-11-01 were hijacked by pax, not a crew member. As, I have stated; crew in the states are waived through, as this is logical. Also you intimate that I am advocating as a pilot I should not “be subjected to this degrading procedure.” Yes you are correct, neither should my crew, as we all hold valid ASICs’; now the Group 4 morons have time to search more pax; like the ones who carried box cutters aboard 4 airplanes in 2001 after being screened by out-sourced, untrained secrua-goons, such as Group 4, and those who could do it easily again in any Oz port today. Obviously, you don’t work for any of the 3 carriers and have to put up with Group 4 tyranny everyday, as I believe this is about the only issue we all agree on. Best of luck with stage one, perhaps one day we will give you 2 bars also and then you will know what its like.

Maxgrad sums the situation up;
Is there some form of perverse logic to this?

As for thinking im special because im a pilot; get real, those days are over in Oz.:{ :{ :{

[tyga78]

G'day All,
Can understand to a small degree where these people are coming from however I believe that these analy retentive losers are on a mission to prove themselves after having failed the police acadamy at goulborn. Have been pulled up for my wings - apparently being a stabbing device and my FO got pulled up on a bomb explosions test cause he had JetA1 on his hands from a fuel test.
After trying to be nice the situation got out of hand as the wannabe copper tried to spread his authority. Needless to say after some proper negotiations, Mr invincible at security lost his job and I no longer had to take my wings off to get to my crew room.
From what i hear he wasn't the first to get the sack. Jetstar and Virgin crew have been copping a bit of flak from those that hail at gate 47 in sydney(or around there) and this is only one of numerous sackings that have occured due to over zealous so called security people. Perhaps in time these losers will learn that it's not hard to get on with fellow airport staff............but I doubt it.

[L J R]

I particularly like the expression on the Security Nazi's face when he sees the Piece that I declare prior to going thru metal detector (Mil Pilot flying Small Mil Jet over Croc infected river area - SOP to carry 9mm pistol & ammo then). Then had small chat with security manager - produced letter drafted weeks prior explaining same, and finally getting nod to walk to two seated aircraft, AND STILL BEING ASKED TO GO THRU METAL DETECTOR. Just in case either one of us hijacked ourselves using further concealed weapons. Maybe if I was going to do some damage, I would have done it with a fully armed mil aircraft...

[grrowler]

BankAngle50,
Sorry if I ruffled your feathers "sir", can I :mad: you off? Maybe that'll help with my stage 1...moron.

I think your point is that because you have gone through the checks to get an ASIC, you are a "good bloke/ shiela" and therefore shouldn't need to be screened. Less scrutiny, perhaps, but being waved through as you suggested, no way.

The ASIC is only as good as the system checking on it, which at the moment is average, on that we agree. I'm saying as long as the goon at checkpoint doesn't have the intelligence or a suitable system in place to discern your "valid" ASIC from your Mens Gallery card, it isn't a suitable screening device.

And regardless, just because you hold an ASIC, doesn't mean you can't be carrying things on your person that shouldn't be on aircraft, and therefore must be subjected to screening. I'm always amazed by the number of ASIC cards getting around an airport. All it takes is for one of them to know a "sinistered-minded person" and in your proposed system we could have a free-for-all.

I'm sorry but everything coming onboard an aircraft should be screened, and I'm afraid that includes everyone from Captain 5-Bars (that'd be you hey?) down to 4th Officer Wannabe (that must be me).

[Capt Claret]

BankAngle50

We're in heated agreement. :}

grrowler

If the ASIC is so prone to failure as a security measure, WTF do we have to have one?

The gummint mandated that all Australian ASIC had to be reissued to improve security. Then couldn't do the ASIO & AFP and other checks in a timely fashion, thus the gummint deadline couldn't be met.

Why screen tech crew? They don't need to smuggle some weapon on bpard to hijack themselves!

[grrowler]

Capt Claret,

I have to say they are separate issues. We have ASIC's to give appropriate ppl access to airside, or a secure area, we have security checkpoints to ensure no one is carrying any item which could harm an aircraft.

Have a look at some of the cretins you see drifting around the airport with an ASIC card, do you believe they should all be waved through security? As I said, then it would only take one unscrupulous or even naive character with an ASIC to take something through for his/ her mate and it's a security breach. Obviously tech-crew aren't gonna hijack their own flight (egyptair?) but what would stop them from passing on items to passengers on another flight?

Why take the risk? Not much of a choice, but I would rather have secura-goon searching me for trouser-concealed stabbin devices than some psycho trying to use it on me in flight.
:E :ok:

[How's it Hanging]

It does get a bit over the top, but I'll play devils advocate.
What happens if as you are leaving home for work you friendly next door neighbour terrorist, who has worked out that you are a pilot and not subject to security checks, comes in with his mates, takes your family hostage and tells you to take his bomb, guns or whatever through security.
As you have mentioned we can all bypass security now, but at least being seen by the public going through security on the odd occasion might act as a deterent.
I thought the ASIC was more for display once you are airside, so that other holders of ASIC's in the area know you have not snuck in and have a valid reason to be there.
No system will ever be perfect, and some common would be nice, but what do you do.

[Capt Claret]

How's it Hanging

To take your scenario one step further.

Your friendly next door neighbour terrorist takes family hostage and says "if you don't fly your aeroplane into Pine Gap/Harbour Bridge/Opera House/pick target, well you'll return home to find them raped with throats cut!"

Poor old bloggs passes through security with nothing more sinister than his deadly hands, which he'll wrap around the controls. Will he do as bid though?

[Ibex]

To all those who think that by having and wearing an ASIC and wearing the splendid uniform warrants a free pass to stride unhindered past any security when within an airport, step down off your over inflated self absorbed inward looking egotistical nav bag and open your eyes to the fact that just perhaps there is a reason for screening people (and that other species known as pilot)

AS hard as it may be for some of our godlike brethren :yuk: to be subjected to screening at entry to sterile areas, especially when it then lowers them to that of the common person (who all wish they were like you) it is there for yours and everyone else’s safety.

Having everyone subjected to the same rules and processes not only reduces the risk of unwarranted persons/objects etc from getting onto your or my aircraft but acts as a deterrent for anyone looking for an easy chink in the armour as a way of bypassing the screening and getting something or someone you DON'T want on your aircraft.

Yes, like ANYTHING, there can be instances where you may think that the process has gone too far for whatever reason. At times like these, bite your tongue, banish those thoughts of greatness when mentally comparing yourself to the 'wannabe cop', smile, mention the poor cricket result and comply with what you are being asked. Hey, the security guard might even have a nice thought about you.

If this is too much for the ego to take, then write to the minister of transport and apply for a solid gold ASIC card to go with the solid gold ego.

Unbelievable.

:yuk:

And hows it hanging, as much as you may be attempting to contribute to and stimulate debate, I don't think that theorising on possible methods to bypass security should be posted on a public forum.

[Dehavillanddriver]

Growler,

As frightening a thought as it is we could walk onboard the aircraft buck naked and still destroy the aircraft.

The pilots don't need weapons, knives, chookpoo and diesel or any other kind of device to destroy an aeroplane, why most of our crew catering could be considered weapons of mass destruction!

I really can't see the point in screening tech crews, and as for making us pull our Jepps out so they can see down the spines - I mean really!

[applehead]

Increased security measures are here to stay whether we like it or not. This will only get tougher from March 10 next year when the new aviation security regime comes into effect. Set a good example by not whining at screening points about subjecting yourself and your baggage for screening - it's the law. If the "group 4 monkeys" (if I can borrow that term from whoever used it - it's quite fitting really) simply waived you though, they would be committing an offence for which they would be prosecuted, and loosing thier jobs would be the least of thier worries.

I agree that some airport security staff are a bit rough around the edges, perhaps they are on a power trip, especially when dealing with pilots.

It is bleedingly obvious that some of you are MS flight sim pilots, and your comments should really be kept to the MS chat rooms. As if any airline pilot, in this day and age, would:

the chick was giving me a laugh as i said to the other crew now listen to one else has any knifes or handgradnades etc.

Good one aerocom do you also wear 4 gold bars and those QF wings you bought on Ebay as you pilot your 777-300ER from your lounge room?

Secure flying to all.

[Capt Claret]

Ibex

Nothing egotistical or godlike about it. There is no requirement for Tech or Cabin crew to be security checked UNLESS they enter the secure area of the terminal. This crew can do for operational reasons without being screened. Sadly getting airside through the terminal doesn't seem to count as an operational reason.

At most of the ports I operate from, there is no need to do so, one quite lawfully walks through the rabbit warren like corridors and proceeds to the aircraft. Sadly, at the moment, some ports, like Alice, do not have this facility.

Having to damn near undress to pass through security screening just to make it appear that the authorities are on top if things is really frustrating.

[grrowler]

Dehavillanddriver,

Agree 100%, however I would rather take on a crazed pilot waving his fist next to me than a crazed pilot waving a machete, don't know bout yourself.

[Sunfish]

What bothers me is the possibility of someone joing a flight at a regional non sterile airport and bypassing security at Melbourne or Sydney.

My other concern is the lax way aircrew appear to be treated by securtiy and immigration. I believe there may be a signifigant risk of impersonation. I don't think anyone could actually get on to an aircraft that way, but they could bring stuff into the sterile area and hand it to someone else.

[Capt Fathom]

Sunfish

Regional passengers who have not been screened exit the terminal via a dedicated exit, and then re-enter to be screened before their next flight.

Aircrew generally come in for extra attention by security staff. It's called the 'tall poppy syndrome'. Nothing like a good dressing down in front of the passengers.

Have a look around next time you have nothing to do at the airport and see how many trades people there are wandering around. They are always building something. Do you think they go through security with all their tools?

[Cactus Jack]

Well said, Ibex.

A sterile area should be just that. Guaranteed sterile. Otherwise it's pretty much pointless.

Problem is at the moment, cost. The Nazis would love to expand their empire and screen everyone, but the cost to screen all staff, including maintenance, catering, porters, aircrew etc is prohibitive.

The major airlines are keeping their mouths closed, because the cost would naturally be apportioned to them. CASA are aware of the problem, as are the Government. But they are keeping quiet so as not to scare the average punter.

After all, if it gets out that Abdullah the caterer can board just about any aircraft anytime without being screened, well, just might just create mass hysteria.

OOOps! Have I just let the cat out of the bag?

FIX IT ANDERSON! NOW! BEFORE IT IS TOO DAMN LATE!

[Ultralights]

yep, we are winning the war on terror!

[Deaf]

Capt Fathom

"Regional passengers who have not been screened exit the terminal via a dedicated exit, and then re-enter to be screened before their next flight."

Isn't that get screened after the flight so the vermin get a chance to harrass them

[Flight Detent]

A year or two ago, departing from JFK as a B747 operating crewmember, as I had many times before, I was chatting to another crewmember as I put my navbag and case on the x-ray input beltway, then casually, as you do, step through the 'magic doorway' to retrieve your bags, and move on.

Over the years, I had worked out what usually set off the buzzer, and trimmed down the metalic type things, and if the setting was about 'normal', I would get thru without any problem.

But this was new to me, the security guard stopped me as I exited the doorway, and told me to go around and go thru again.
As I hadn't set off the buzzer, I asked him why, so he said, get this, "You had your hands in your pockets" - no bull!

I was totally amazed, I tried some logic on him, you know, the obvious stuff, but that didn't work at all, I had to have my hands out of my pockets to get thru!!

That was the same day we had to shut down the airplane on the inactive runway, because they had misplaced our flight plan and would not allow us to proceed, although we had been given our clearance prior to pushback. We parked ourselves there for about 30 minutes until they got their act together, if we had kept the engines running we would have had to go back to the gate for more fuel, it was a long day!

A day I will remember for a long time!

Cheers :confused:

[Ultralights]

funny thing about the magic door, i have found that stepping over the hump in the floor, is less likely to set it off, even when wearing steel cap boots! i found stepping on the hump set it off every time, stepping over, about 50% of the time!

[pullock]

To all of those who think that airport securitar is making us safer, can you please explain why it is that the only attempted highjacking in Australia happened AFTER the securitar nazis and sky martials were in place, and why it is that the securitar was one hundred percent ineffective in stopping it?

For those who don't recall I am discussing the chopsticks that were flying between MEL and HBA on the 717, that were stopped by the cabin crew - not the securitar.

I would be willing to bet that had all the aircraft securitar hype not been around this poor crazed unfortunate would have unleashed his insanity elsewhere - ie the securitar senario influenced this individual to carry out a high jacking attempt on an aircraft rather than some other form of madness.

[aerocom]

Applehead, Before My reply to you gets wiped again, please note those comments I made were some years prior to 9/11 and when people could still have a laugh. Now before this evolves into a d**k measuring contest, I do have an ATPL, and no I only use a sim for base checks. So next time you want to be a Tool head instead of an apple head have a bit more to drink.

[pullock]

As far as I knew sky martials were active on mainline flights only - not impulse flights at the time. If however they were there and watched flight crew copping head wounds then they certainly aren't the people that I want protecting me !!

Once again a 100% failure if that was the case, yet I could so see how the securitar would pat it's self on the back for having protected the sanctity of it's weapons even though the cost to the cabin crew was serious injury. Just like somehow it must have been OK for a bouncer in Melbourne to kill a (famous) patron because the patron verbally taunted him (maybe) eventhough the patron was intoxicated.

I am thinking that the root problem that is being discussed in this thread is that perhaps there is nobody watching the watchers, and that the solution is to make THEM answerable when their action is inappropriate.

If you are a PAX you can go to court for just saying the swong thing in jest, yet securitar seem to have a license to do what ever they want. Time for a public enquiry.

[Cactus Jack]

Comparing apples with oranges there I feel, Pullock. Bouncers aren't in the same league as Air Marshalls. The flyers are highly trained professionals, and therin lies the difference.

A "bouncer" probably would have intervened. The trained professionals wouldn't. On this occasion the bouncer might have saved the day, but what if there were other hijackers on board? If this were the case, our bouncer now has trouble, and probably would have screwed up.

Your 20/20 hindsight is marvellous, but when all hell is breaking loose, the air marshalls must rely on their discipline and training. Thats why they are doing this job and not standing out the front of a pub.

[Keg]

I'm not sure how many have seen the introductory package for air crew on ASOs but I'm not particularly comfortable with the subject coming up and being discussed at any length on a public forum. I'll just say that if they were on board the 717 then I'm bitterly disappointed as I would have thought this was the EXACT situation where they'd be intervening and controlling the cabin in short shrift. If they'r'e not going to intervene in an attempted hijacking, what's the use of having them?!?!?They will have ensured that they weren't compromised only to find out that the aircraft is under someone else's control! Perhaps a review of the material provided to crew who can expect them on their aircraft would provide answers for those who need to know.

[Weapons_Hot]

People
The security people are doing only what they are paid to do, albiet some with greater zeal that others.

Now a question for the airport authorities, ie. the entities that actually pay the bills for this 'security':
Would you need all the 'security' people doing all that screeing, if only you let ticketed passengers (and crew/staff with ASIC cards) past the screening areas. eg. most USA/EUR airports.
I could and still never see the need to actually see someone walk through the airstairs. I recommend drop 'em and collect 'em at the gutter. :*

[Homer_Jay]

G'day All,

It seems to me that the security measures in place are shutting the gate after the horse has bolted. After Sep 11 I don't think a bunch of passengers will sit idly by while they are hijacked. The old passenger advice was in the event of a hijacking sit tight, do what they say, aircraft lands, lots of negotiations and hijackers are removed by the heroic special forces/police/chicken stranglers/insert preferred name.

Sep 11 changed all that. It also changed things for politicians who in order to look like they are doing something put in place a bunch of draconian legislation about tightening airport security. The fact the 'weapons' used were entirely legal on aircraft in the US at the time didn't seem to matter.

As somebody rightly said before the security guys are just obeying these draconian laws. Here's an example. In a previous life I was a Black Hawk pilot and my crew were tasked to pick up a senior officer from Brisbane Airport. Said officer was arriving in Brisbane by RPT.

We lob into Brisbane and the ATC folks there could not have been more helpful and we parked in a bay at the domestic terminal. This officer was the most senior in the Army and still is, and most people will know him from the news. As the aircraft captain I did the polite thing and went inside the terminal to meet the officer. In a vain attempt to expedite things I at least left behind my Leatherman, dog tags etc.

After concluding things in the terminal, I had to get back out onto the tarmac. Despite the guard recognising my passenger and that we were wearing the same uniform etc. I still had to strip down to Tshirt and trousers to get through security. 20 minutes later I'm back on the tarmac and on the way.

No offence, but I was a member of one of the organisations that are there to respond to terrorist threats with the one of the bosses. You would think there would be a better way or that the security guy would have some discretion. Not under our draconian law.

Draconian laws as a knee jerk reaction are a recipe for disaster. Much like an armoured cockpit door.

Weapons Hot,

Great question about non flyers on the airside of security. They will probably tell you something about risk management and security experts etc. The real answer is that all the retailers and restaraunts etc that they invested a lot of money to put there will not be able to charge $10 for a tuna sandwich and they\'ll dip out on their cut.

Shoot Kath and Kel Knight had a whole honeymoon at Tullamarine without taking off.

[Capt Claret]

Homer_Jay for head of DOTARS I say. Then we might get some common sense into all this BS. :mad:

[pullock]

Well Said Homer_Jay. I completely agree with you that the problem lies squarely in the draconian nnature of the laws, but would also go further and say that the problem is also resident in the draconian nature in which the laws are applied by the authoritars who want to have more authoritar.

Like you I think that these laws in their current format are as useless as a bullet proof cockpit door. I just hope that someone out there is listening to reason and going to fix these laws, as under these laws the terrists have already won.