What makes them different?

[PinkFlyer]

I would to ask a very simple question but which might have some complex answers…

What is the difference in skills/awareness between the pilots who get streamed fast jets and the others?

Situational awareness? Knowing checks better? Being punchier? Better skilled? Greater capacity?

I would be grateful to hear comments from EFT/linton/vally instructors especially.

The final thing is how does one improve these attributes?

Please no comedy answers! As I realise there is huge scope for some!

Cheers PF

[Training Risky]

OK dude, no comedy answers....

In theory, the streaming board that assembles after Elementary Flying Training should assign student pilots to one of the three streams based on nothing more than his flying: encompassing handling skills, airmanship, capacity, you get the picture?

Now every now and then there may be factors that muddy the decision-making process: Too many multi-engine pilots? Fine, send them all FJ and RW. Too many FJ pilots? Then blokes that would normally get FJ suddenly find themselves on one of the other streams.

There was a huge re-streaming meeting at Linton a few months ago which re-streamed certain pilots who had PASSED the Tucano phase. These guys were good, but due to the lowered Into Productive Service (IPS) requirement of the FJ frontline, the requirement at Valley was reduced. So a lot of p!ssed-off guys suddenly find themselves at Shawbury or Cranditz wearing Tucano wings!

Only the FJ desk-officers themselves know if there is political pressure on them to fill unofficial quotas for female/ethnic minority students.... come on guys! Spill the beans!:eek:

[PinkFlyer]

Cheers for your answer, I know how the boards work i just wondered if anyone has any info on how to improve ones chances of getting jets? How does one improve ones capacity to handle multiple inputs in the air etc?

Ta PF

[caspertheghost]

Pinkflyer,
It's probably true to some extent that some are born with more capacity than others, but I don't know if you can really "improve" your capacity.
You can certainly free up capacity once you get more confident in handling your aircraft and have to devote less time and mental effort to just keeping the damn thing airborne! Also, the more currency you have helps a lot in my opinion.
Congrats on wanting to go jets, keep working hard and aim to be the best you can, that's all anyone will ask of you, and all that you can do. Good luck!

[Jackonicko]

It's partly about capacity. Someone's already given you the best advice there is, and that's 'be prepared'. You can maximise yours by ensuring that you know your checks, emergencies, flying orders, SIDs, approach procedures, frequencies better than anyone else. Sharpen up your mental arithmetic and nav calculations. Be as fit as you can be. Get enough sleep. Eat lots of vegetables. Anything that aids concentration and frees up brain space to deal with what they throw at you......

[Raymond Ginardon]

Attitude, to a large extent.

Right place right time.

Deliverance, amongst some others, writes as one who has actually been there and done it - I would adopt the same 'Learn how to be a good student' principle if I were going through the process.

Ray

[J Urby]

Pinkflyer, Firstly ensure that you know the a/c and its kit back to front and then instructors will be more inclined to trust in your abilties. Being confident in the kit will naturally make you; a, more relaxed and b, more ready to deal with the unexpected.
Innate skill is rare (Valentino Rossi springs to mind), most comes from familiarity with the kit (that is why F1 drivers and MOTO GP heros practice all year round). Your ability to absorb what is going on [and hence awareness] is directly linked with capacity. After all, if you are behind the curb with the ac/kit how can you absorb what is going on outside? PS Good luck;)

[buoy15]

Pink Flyer
I think you answered your own question in line 3 of your thread mate!!

Questionable call sign what?

Love many, Trust a few, Always paddle your own canoe!

[BigGrecian]

Personality has something to do with it as well sometimes. Sometimes people just don't fit the picture - and might be better suited elsewhere.

[tu chan go]

Not quite true, BigGrecian

We cannot and do not suspend guys from training (chopped in old speak!) simply based on personality. Likewise, a good personality is no guarantee of passing either.

If a student has the skills and the capacity (especially capacity), he is more likely to pass. I have know some truely great guys who have fallen by the wayside because they could not cope with flying a fast jet in a complex and changing scenario. On the other hand, there have been a couple of complete kn*bs who have passed due purely to their handling skills and ability.

I guess that personality comes under Officer Qualities and we cannot suspend for lack of said until they reach the front-line.

[Wizzard]

Pinky,

Just an observation so please feel free to ignore it or simply shoot me down in flames if you wish. I should add that I have no experience of the RAF fixed-wing world.

I do however have some experience in the instructing world and have found that for some pilots it is best work at a level at which you are competent and therefore happy than to be working flat out all the time doing a job you think you like but is really better left to someone else!

Although I admire your determination to get to FJ if the 'system' thinks you are best suited to ME or RW you might be pleasently surprised to find that they are right.

Good luck, stay safe.

Wiz

[Raymond Ginardon]

Wise words Wizzard.

Ray

[Farfrompuken]

Pink-one,

a huge head start is available in the amount of pre-flight prep. If you've covered and pondered as many 'what-ifs?' as you can before you leave your crew room, this can translate to bucket loads of spare capacity in the air.

For example, if you've really thought about your poor wx options/alternative routing etc at low level, you won't get caught out when your first turning point is out in fog (provided you can navigate in the first place).

When I came through as a stude, I genuinely worked hard, but thought I'd be a fraud if I had to rely on thinking about all that stuff on the ground. I thought if you had talent, you'd come up with that stuff in the air. What a load of b@ll@cks! Now I instruct and am a tad more grown up, I recognise that process as 'essential pre-flight prep'. I now find life much easier as a result!:D

As someone mentioned earlier, the thinking is that you're born with a level of 'capacity'. Improving the way you use your allowance is the key. Pre flight prep is a great way to do it.

Good luck, and enjoy !!:)

[BEagle]

In the main, I would say that it's not just good flying skills, but more 'spare mental capacity' in the air which marks out a prospective FJ pilot.

That and a small willy, of course.....:E

[Stray Fin]

Pink Flyer
Agreeing with all previous posts, I also believe confidence is a significant factor in getting through the training system. I have seen blokes fall by the wayside, because they had seemed to expect to fail - and it's only a matter of time before this lack of confidence manifests itself in a poor sortie. Likewise, I've seen some real borderline cases make it, because their confidence levels far exceeded their abilities.

[Leprechaun]

Fair play to you for having the good sense to ask these questions before getting into it but I'm wondering what previous experience has led you to think that FJ is the be all and end all? Don't discount the thrills offered by other types of military flying. I didn't know what fun flying was about until I strapped into a helo and tried to land in small holes in woods. Also the challenge of working with a crew was something I dreaded until I did it!
If FJ is truly all that gets you aroused then good luck to you, but don't be too disappointed if you get to end of JEFTS and find out you are off to Shawbs!

Anyway how hard can Fast Jet be? They let them fly on their own!:E

Cheers Leps

[PPRuNeUser0172]

Does giving yourself multiple orgasms count??? I hope so!!

[cwodavids]

There are arguments for and against, but, im interested in what background you have. Have you managed to get any rotary experience? The reason i ask is because the rotary world is VERY different in almost every respect to FJ. Having seen many guys come through training or holding on the squadron with us change there mind, you might be surprised.

All rotary stuff is done as part of at least 3 crew, all the crew have an input to the decisions that need to be made. However, you as captain are captain, if that makes sense. The role we have as rotary is very challenging flying, such as low level (not 250`, proper low at 50` :) ) under wires, internal loads, underslung loads, trooping, fast roping, abseiling, casevac, air to ground shooting, winching, confined areas, NVG flying (doing all the above roles at night) etc. there are lots truly interesting jobs you can end up doing.

Most people who wanted FJ but got Rotary would not want to crossover under any circumstances.

Anyway FJ guys are frustrated rotary pilots, have small d**ks, cant hold their beer, love themselves, have no sense of humour and dont even do a real job most of the time :)

[PPRuNeUser0172]

You are a funny guy CWO but have to agree with you, whatever stream you end up in, you always end up enjoying it. Even guys who always wanted fast jet or rotary and got something different. At the end of the day it is all flying and all fun. Each offers its own challenges and requires a different set of skills.

Size isnt everything CWO, I am happy with my small d**k and
p!ss poor drinking performance. ;)

[cwodavids]

At the end of the day you still get paid the same........ just more kudos with rotary :D

[caspertheghost]

Fast Jet pilots are better looking and girls like them more.:)

[cwodavids]

kind of proves the point.

"enough about you, lets talk about me"

typical FJ mate, shame you dont get paid more :)

[caspertheghost]

Anyone else notice that it was the rotary guy(s) who dragged this thread off into a slagging match?
They giveth, yet they cannot take......

[cwodavids]

Banter i think they call it:)

[caspertheghost]

Weak banter though!:ok:

Seriously though, even though your banter is poor, your point about the helo world is very true. I have lots of mates who have started off in the jet world and for various reasons have ended up flying whirly things and they all say they enjoy it, but for different reasons.
It's not all about FJ, Pinkflyer, but if that's what you want to do then go for it.

(Or you could choose multis and take the easy route!)

[Pontius Navigator]

At least the RW in the yellow budgies get to pull anything they like.

[Time Flies]

cwodavids

At the end of the day you still get paid the same........ just more kudos with rotary

It would seem you obviously aren't being paid enough...resorting to flogging helmet bags on e-bay.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4783&item=5534762384

I hope there isn't a crew wandering around somewhere having to carry their helmets by the chinstrap :eek:

I'm now going to rummage around for that spare chinagraph I had...might raise enough to buy some of that rotary kudos!
:yuk:

TF

[mbga9pgf]

Oh dear...

The helmet bag is bad enough but making money from this garment is taking it too far!


Bling Bling! (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2998&item=8130630787)

[Feneris]

The ebay link 2 above..... someone's been ripping off stores again, and his buyer.. I mean £22 for that??? Does his buyer know it's just a crappy nylon bag??!

Putting the topic back on original track..... Anyone will have a certian amount of natural ability in different areas. The less natural ability you have the better you'll have to prepare for flights. You may be great at general handling but fall down on instrument flight or navigation. You may not be very good at the general handling but make up for a lot of it by having a competant and confident manner in the aircraft along with good spatial awareness. At EFT level there is more focus on someones ability at instrument flight and nav than on general handling when it comes to streaming them. Of course they will have to do well in all areas.

Ultimately work your hardest and you won't be left thinking 'if only...' if you don't get sent where you want.

[oldbeefer]

Just a passing thought - a student used to have to pass the JP course to go onto rotary. Now, he has to fail it (or at least the equivalent)! Some sort of progress, I suppose, like letting wimmin fly!

[Big Cat Handler]

a student used to have to pass the JP course to go onto rotary. Now, he has to fail it

Really? I know there are some who take the "gold-plated" route to rotary wings, having been chopped at either Linton or Valley, but the norm is to be streamed RW at the end of EFT having never been near a Tucano, and some are sent RW at the end of Linton despite passing the course. Would hardly refer to either as "failing" the JP course!

[Bob Viking]

Just a quickie.

I'm not saying that it will help you to get streamed fast jet, but the thing that helped me the most was learning to relax and not getting too stressed out about things.

It's a bloody good job but if you're working your a**e off and never having any fun, what's the point?!

I watched guys on my courses falling by the wayside because they were working themselves into an early grave.

Just chill out and accept whatever you end up on because I'm certain you'll enjoy whatever and wherever it is!

BV