bmi granted Indian route

[Red 69]

bmi today granted 4 weekly services to Mumbai

Link here... http://www.flybmi.com/bmi/en-gb/aboutbmi/presscentre/pressreleases.aspx?year=2004&rid=547

BA granted 7 of the available 21 routes and Virgin 10

[Eurekadelta]

Did Virgin & BA get anything?

[fadec_primary_channel]

CAA Decision (http://www.caa.co.uk/caanews/caanews.asp?nid=999) :Ofull document PDF (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/213/India%20scarce%20capacity%20Final.pdf)

[Goodness Gracious Me]

More info from the FT:

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/9e5faffe-4529-11d9-8fcf-00000e2511c8.html

Basically, BA were given 4 weekly services to Chennai (Madras) and 3 weekly to Bangalore, Virgin got 7 weekly to Delhi and 3 weekly to Mumbai, while bmi got 4 weekly to Mumbai.

Running totals:-
BA - 26 a week
Virgin - 10
bmi - 4

[MarkD]

hm. If VS and bmi codeshared that would make it daily wouldn't it :D

cue the merger rumours!

[Max Angle]

Ours and the three VS slots would indeed make a daily, very interesting. From our point of view 4 days a week, though a welcome breakthrough, is not very good news. The problem is what to do with the a/c on the other 3 days, another route would be fine but if it's not out of LHR it becomes a bit of a nightmare, I think the company would have preferred nothing or 6-7 days a week but feels it can't turn the 4 down as it's been asking for longhaul out of LHR for so long.

[AlanSinfield]

Does that mean BMI will need to source another Long-haul Aircraft eg. Airbus 330/340, or will they reduced the flight program from Manchester

[Bagso]

BMI need more aircraft Ex Manchester ...NOT less...

All services Ex MAN are booming !

[lexxity]

Does that mean BMI will need to source another Long-haul Aircraft eg. Airbus 330/340, or will they reduced the flight program from Manchester


It'll be a 340, i can't imagine they would drop routes fom MAN they are way too busy, the guessing game should be what are they going to do with the spare non-operating days? Let the guessing begin.......:}

[Max Angle]

It'll be a 340, Question is, will it have a red tail and be flown by VS crews using a bmi callsign on the days we do it and a VS callsign on the days they do it?.

[5415N]

or what about a BMI callsign and BA colours:) :D

[Young Paul]

I'd heard that the bmi management were really keen to get a bmi widebody into LHR. I'm not sure the specification for the routes was for LHR - just for UK to India - but bmi in their press release were quick to say that this was an opportunity from LHR.

bmi got 4 of the 14 they bid for - 28%.

Virgin got 10 of the 21 they bid for - 47%.

BA got 7 of the 21 they bid for - 33%.

Guess who's making the most noise about appealing? (Hint - list the above percentages in reverse order)

[EastMids]

Sir Richard Branson said: "We will launch our new three times a week service to and from Mumbai from 1 February (subject to Indian Government approval under their Open Skies deal). This simply isn't enough - BA utterly dominates, carrying 75% of First and Business class passengers flying directly between the UK and India, and it needs competition on Mumbai on a daily basis from a world-class long haul airline with world-class products and services."

How arrogant - bmi is a world-class airline too, and between VS and BD there will be daily competition for BA. If VS are indeed appealing the Mumbai decision as suggested here, then I sincerely hope that the CAA say to Virgin that if they can't operate viably three days a week then they'll give all seven Mumbai frequencies to BMI.

Andy

[Busta Level]

I sincerely hope that the CAA say to Virgin that if they can't operate viably three days a week then they'll give all seven Mumbai frequencies to BMI.

Yeah Right :rolleyes: Time to realise there is a world outside of the biased and blinkered Toad Hall/management wannabe world which you and young paul inhabit - one in which reality exists....

Come to LHR for a few days and experience the reality of the bmi commercial airline operation. The fact is that there are not the resources in place to operate the new routes effectively and profitably. Let alone the aircraft required - unless we drop the LAS/Caribbean routes... Shock horror - bmi drop a route after 6 months? Surely not...(see Barcelona, IAD, etc etc)

How can we afford to buy any new aircraft (340's HA!) when we have lost £9 million every year since the 1990's, and if we have a 1.5% pay increase the airline will go under?!

Farcical.

However much a few new routes 3 days a week may be trumpeted internally, externally it is nothing. Try going to the USA in uniform and answering the question 'Gee, which airline do you guys work for?'

'bmi'

'who?'

'british midland'

'Oh british airways'

'OK, yes'

Try the same, replacing bmi with BA or Virgin and see the difference in response.

Our marketing is cr@p, and bmi will never be a world class airline (Airline for Scotland, maybe) full stop. To achieve that one needs more than a few 330's. After all, bmi/Midland has been about in one form or another for 60 years plus, and has tried longhaul before (707's) whereas Virgin (and the new BOAC) have been around for a much shorter time, but have achieved much more.

SMB will retire in the next few years and flog the operation to Lufty or someone else, we'll all be looking for work, and you and young paul will be bemoaning the fact that you have been betrayed...

Take off the blinkers, please, and stop bugging all of us in the real world.

:hmm:

[RoyHudd]

Any prospect of Airbus-rated recruits for LHR with this new route? This might afford some of the previous people who were let go post 9/11 to rejoin bmi....should they so wish!

[EastMids]

Busta Level,

So bitter eh? Shame. For your information, I am neither an inmate of Toad Hall nor a management wannabe. I am actually one of bmi's paying customers - paying to travel with them regularly both intra-Europe AND long haul to the US (which I've used some five times this year). I actually go out of my way to fly bmi for one reason alone - bmi is better than BA or Virgin. Try United business class to the US for example, and then you'll see what a great product bmi offers up front on the A330. World class? Yes, within its own sphere of operations it is. If bmi's operational and expansion plans don't quite fit within your interpretation of what the airline should be or how it should do it, then so be it. bmi deserves a break on the India ops, and I hope it eventually gets all seven frequencies - I'm sure it'll make a damned good showing from it. Despite your disparaging attitude, some of us will continue to spend money with bmi because we think its a good airline that deserves more than it gets.

[Young Paul]

For what it's worth, I too am not an inmate of DH or a management wanabee.

[no, no, no]

a few comments suggest that bmi and Virgin will have a daily between them to compete with BA - but isn't that assuming that bmi and Virgin will not choose to operate on the same days as each other - for part if not all the week?????? after all if there are stronger days (do they even exist on a LHR-BOM route???) wouldn't they both want them?? I suppose it depends on what traffic they're trying to get - if it's business I guess more weekdays, but if leisure more weekend?????

[pollypocket36]

Comparing bmi to other airlines such as VS and BA is simply wrong. I've flown all three business and BA wins by far. I will say that bmi are the worst. The seats are crap! Cradle seats!!!! The service is good but other than that, it's not got much else. Both BA and VS has beds and the services are rather good too. No offence to bmi but they have a long way to reach the standard of BA or VS. They both offer so much more from booking your ticket to arriving back.

[Airbus215]

Polly pocket.....

There speaks a bitter EX bmi crew member .....

Remember that theres a lot more to bmi long haul offered to FARE PAYING pax than that offered to staff on freebies .

bmi long haul isnt perfect but it has recieved awards ....

Maybe you werent SUITABLE for long haul ....

Get over your bitterness to your ex employer.

And no im not bmi crew !

:cool:

[Little Blue]

AIRBUS 215...well, yr not crew....ANYMORE !!
Polly, move on, bmi is in yr past !!
In my opinion, the bmi busy class is 2nd to none..
And of those that I have spoken to that have sampled all 3, they are in agreement...
Now if we can only get the rest of it right #!
;)

[Airbus215]

OK Little Blue .....

I concede that I no longer remain in check... But once a sarnie slapper always a sarnie slapper ! And I may well end up back in check yet .....

All joking apart have to agree with you having had the chance to sample VS BD BA I have to say we have got it right on long haul.... Wont comment on my own product area as I ll be told im biased !:p



:ok:

[semisonic]

Well done to bmi!!

I'm hearing today they are going to appeal. I think that is a token effort, which they don't really expect a result from. But they sure do realise the importance of establishing a long-haul presence at Heathrow, no matter how small. Especially if they gain South Africa slots as well, then they will only make they case stronger for US rights, should they ever come up for grabs.

THing is though I am worried about MAN. bmi services there are great for the region, and bmi too i believe. And although I can't doubt LHR is a more sure bet of success, MAN is worth a sweat...the potential to hub there and launch a unique operation is great..

What does everyone else think?

[Dispatcher]

Well said Busta Level !

Shall be interesting to see how any 'relationship' between VS and BD fosters due to the start of these routes.

A further question if anyone is the wiser ?

Will BD operate this from Terminal One ? I would of course guess yes, but with airport restrictions ie. gate availability this may be an issue.

With only 4 flts a week, will Dubai or Capetown be an option for bmi ex LHR ?

and lastly, if anyone can be bothered to answer !!! - is bmi ever going to paint the rest of their fleet ie. paint any of the A321's or any of the older A320's - I still cant believe that not one has been painted following a revamp what 4 years ago ? ( before anyone has words - the only existing aircraft in the fleet painted was a 737-300 that went to baby about 3 weeks following its paint job ! apart from that every aircraft in new colours has been delivered new as such )

cheers all

[point5]

Parking the a/c in T1 will be a problem, especially if they schedule to land first thing when there's usually chaos trying to park the SAA's.

I've heard that bmi may trade the 321s back in for 319s hence the delay in painting.

Cheers!

[pollypocket36]

AIRBUS 215 I just stated an opinion not a fact if you'd read it carefully. In my "opinion" BD's longhaul services are pretty rubbish compared to whats out there now. Stop worring about what I think and more of what the full fare pax think of it!! I undrstand that they are busy and i say good luck to em.

Oh, by the way, yes I am ex bmi as that has nothing to do with it. I have had the opportunity to fly CONFIRMED FULL FARE J class with all 3 carriers and speaking from a CONFIRMRD FULL FARE J class passenger's view, bmi aren't that good. Thats all!! I wasn't based at MAN so didn't know any of the crew so I could see what it was really like as a FULL FARE pax.

Another point, I never bothered with bmi longhaul as I live nowhere near MAN and didn't want to relocate. I have also already experienced lonhaul with another carrier and don't wish to do it again. Thank you for you comment AIRBUS 215 but you have clarly taken it in the wrong way. I wasn't bitching about them just stating an "opinion".

[mmeteesside]

Two A321's are going to Turkish in April 2005 according to the CH-Aviation newsletter

[semisonic]

i read that press release too.

Can anyone say how the longhauls ex-manchester are doing? I would hate to see them be ripped away for a London service!

[MarkD]

What's wrong with the 321s that they are replacing them?

[330-Purser]

Mumbai timetable is out and routes now on sale. See below

We’re pleased to announce the launch of a new direct service to Mumbai from London Heathrow starting Monday 28 March 2005

The four times weekly service provides a three cabin service with inflight chef, with the following schedule:

London Heathrow - Mumbai
flight
number depart arrive days

BD781 09:15 22:40 mon, wed, fri, sat 28 Mar 05 - 29 Oct 05

BD781 09:20 23:25 mon, wed, fri, sat 31 Oct 05 - 25 Mar 06

Interesting to see all these flights operate from T1 at LHR.

Mumbai - London Heathrow
flight
number depart arrive days

BD782 00:35 05:50 tues, thurs, sat, sun 28 Mar 05 - 29 Oct 05

BD782 01:20 05:50 tues, thurs, sat, sun 30 Oct 05 - 25 Mar 06

[lexxity]

any more on what a/c type it will be yet? Will it be the A340, lets hope so, I don't want to see any of the routes ex MAN pulled.

[Scottie Dog]

CRS (Sabre) shows A330 - hmmm!

But bmi still selling MAN-IAD which I thought might have been pulled.

Another aircraft?

[Goodness Gracious Me]

Or even someone else's A330.....? :hmm:

[colegate]

bmi are going to find this to be a very tough operation. They will have a hopeless frequency for the business travellers and they will operate an aircraft that is far too small for this route. It is entirely likely that this route alone will add many millions to the bmi annual loss. It smells of a train set operation rather than a serious business activity. I guess that if BA had been given these frequencies they would be able to generate around three times the revenue per flight that bmi will generate. That calculation is easy. Thery have first class and large business class cabins and they have a very strong freight operation. bmi have no first, are likely to have a small business class and their freight marketing is pathetic by industry standards.

As one who is well experienced in the ways of the CAA I would incline to be cynical as to why bmi have been given this route. It is a certain thing that if bmi fail on this route they will face massive hurdles in getting more long-haul outes out of LHR.

[Young Paul]

"The food is terrible ..." "... and such small portions."

I'm sure they'd rather have a greater frequency - unfortunately, one of the existing duopoly operators got a third of the slots, and somebody else got a half. However, you have to start somewhere.

[Faulty]

Anyone know when in January we can expect the result from the CAA appeal?

[caa19]

Apparently bmi were going to wet lease 2 LH A340s if they got all 21. bmi website is saying A330, but with the 3 MAN based A330 now operating at full schedule looks like another a/c. Anyone heard any different?

[lexxity]

Have heard bmi will be leasing (not sure what terms, etc) a 330 from LH or that it will be one of the existing 330's and UA to take over MANIAD has anybody heard anything on that?

[kala87]

Colegate:

Why is the proposed 4/week frequency hopeless for business travellers? Bombay isn't exactly a there-and-back in a day destination. I would have thought most business travellers could work their schedule around a 4/week choice of flights. A more important negative point could be that regular travellers already have frequent flier programs with BA, VS or EK, and Bombay is currently BD's only Asian destination.

VS already operate A340's on the route, so an A330 isn't very different in terms of capacity (pls correct me if I'm wrong on this).

Personally, I'll stick with EK - wonderful food and service, despite the break in journey in Dubai.

[Cyrano]

Looking at the schedule which 330-Purser has posted makes me wonder: the aircraft is on the deck in LHR for three >24-hour periods each week. What's it going to do during this time? Is it going to position up to MAN to operate BD flights from there? Is it going to be used on heavily-loaded BD shorthaul flights from LHR? :eek: Are BD going to persuade UA to wetlease it for a couple of their own transatlantics? Or is dreadful utilisation just going to be the price that BD pays to supposedly establish themselves in LHR long-haul?

[330-Purser]

Rumour going around is of a couple of BGI's from LHR to fill in the time when the A330 is not in BOM. Can anyone else confirm this?

[Little Blue]

hmmmmmmmm..
I've heard that one, n'all.. !
Oh well, more work for OPS !!....oh, and crewing as well !!
;)