Hars Connie in Aus Av.

[OpsNormal]

Straight-up question. I fully expect to get flamed W, but hey I asked.... eh? :}

I was leafing through the latest edition of Australian Aviation, and while normally a tome of level headed and even handed reporting, I had to put the mag down for a short time before reading-on at one stage. I don't have the page number, but refer to the caption underneath the picture of the imported Naval variant of the HARS L1049 that we are being told that we "must support" or forever lose.

Why must we support it?

It is an airframe itself that has no significance or ties to Australian aviation.

It is not even a "same as what used to fly here", being a muchly different airframe in so far as build/wt/window shape/fuse length etc etc.

It is operated by an old boys club who would have anyone unfortunate enough to be within earshot know that this aircraft is the most significant airframe in the air (just) today.

To be viable, why not conduct paying pax joyflights (much like what Jack Curtis is doing with the Daks at BK), and invest the money into the airframe etc? Charging 5 bucks just have a squizz inside while on static display, and having the cockpit off limits to everyone is no way to win new friends to HARS.

OpsN reckons and sez: You wanna have the general public pay for your personal retirement toys, then give the public something in return instead of a cold shoulder and a bad aftertaste in their mouths after dealing with you.

While I agree in principle with the concept of what you are trying to acvhieve in the long run, and yes I will admit to not having been exposed to the 'Connie' for a couple of years now (due to being in another part of the country that never sees your aircraft, but only a few hours flying away from the 'action centres' - read: Airshow cct), more value by the general public is given to the types of operations (such as what goes-on at Temora etc) that get the general public to interact with those who let the public get up close and personal with aircraft that actually are a part of our country's history and past.

Or has the attitude changed at HARS in the past few years? Besides, the editorial content of the magazine that the picture I descibe was contained within perhaps could have remained more neutral and not made such a judgement.

Flame away people.

[Fris B. Fairing]

Nah.

Too easy.

[OpsNormal]

Fris, well aware of the good work you are doing locating and cataloguing lost airframes around the traps etc. I'm not trying to belittle anyone's work in HARS with the Connie, but when it gets fed to the public as an Australian icon, that is a bit too much..... :yuk:

[Fris B. Fairing]

Ops

Sadly there are no genuine Australian Connies left on this planet and believe me, strenuous efforts were made to find one. HARS efforts in bringing a Connie to Australia are well documented. What is not so well appreciated is that the aeroplane arrived in Australia under a VH- registration, a major achievement in itself. I reckon "a rose by any other name".

Cheers

[Feather #3]

Thanks Ops for highlighting our fundraising drive for our hangar complex to house the HARS collection.

Jim was kind enough to give us space and correctly portay the Connie as our flagship. She is, however, one of some 22 aircraft we intend to house in the 3-hangar & admin centre at Illawarra Regional Airport.

Relative merit of aircraft in the collection is a worthy subject for debate, and your view has been put before, albeit perhaps not quite so publicly. In a country which so rightly supports the underdog, the restoration of the Connie and recovery to Oz is a worthy part of Aussie triumph over adversity. The Government must think so as it saw fit to award HARS President an OAM for leading the effort [and not only the Connie!]

The wider community in the Illawarra Region are highly supportive of our efforts, for which we are grateful. We're also grateful for the man hours supplied to keep these aircraft flying. The fact that in a lot of cases these hours are supplied by highly-skilled retirees in a voluntary organisation doesn't deserve the denigration you would appear to heap upon their efforts.

We would welcome your support in formulation and furtherance of our business plan by welcoming you to membership. This would also give you access to our financial information which might readily disclose the economics of operating these aircraft. You might like to balance this with other operators and their relative success or failure.

Like the Aussie cricketers, we're out there plugging away to put runs on the board. Please help by getting on board !

G'day ;)

[SLAV MAN]

could someone ie, Feather #3 please tell us what is the position of HARS in relation to the Soutrhern Cross replecia as i believed that it had been gifted to HRAS with the insurance money to fix the aircraft but it was to be based in te adelaide region, but spending much of its time on the east coast. any info would be very much appreciated.

[Feather #3]

Except for the "east coast bit", the rest is correct as I've posted before.

G'day ;)

[Scion]

Look HARS has done a magnificent job in rescuing these airframes. There is a one big obsticle however in that they have a terrible insurance bill each year. If the feds would even consider meeting that cost , and I belive HARS has been relativly incident free due to the expertize of their operation, then they would be free to do their best with all the airframes.

I am a member but totally non involved with their politics or engineering. I just pay the sub--

[OpsNormal]

Feather #3, thank you for your reply. The 'denigration' (as you put it), is in your mind... I merely asked a few deeply searching questions. To membership alas, I had made enquiries at one stage many years ago prior to the procurement of "Connie". Simple for me, as I lived around the corner from Kanadah Ave B.H for a very long time and was aware of HARS existance for quite a while prior to looking into membership.

I wasn't sold on it, so I decided to wait until a public venue where I could perhaps meet a few of the membership and make my own mind up then after talking to some of your organisation representatives. I asked as many questions as I could and could never get a straight answer. After the event at YSBK I was left with an impression less than favourable of your organisation, due mainly to being told: "Nope, don't want your input.... just your money".

I found this odd at the time and still do, as I would have thought that attracting membership would help attract funds for the sort of project that "Connie" is. I'm not alone, many have walked away after experiencing something similar to this.

The "Old Boys Club" aspersion stands.

My first post questioned the relevance of your airframe to Australia.... The first word in your name being "Historical". Whose history is Connie, ours? I can see your point, but there are a great many airframes that served this country in need of work on them, some of them perhaps more relevant to the development of the country to where it is today, let alone ones that protected us in times of war.

I put forward a scenario that would have seen an income being generated from the airframe, things like tours to airshows, charters to the Melbourne cup meetings etc etc. I am aware that after all these years of the aircraft being still airworthy, an interior still hasn't been cobbled together and tickets sold.

People want to ride on/in these machines before they completely disappear.

There are many sorts of people who would want to fly on your machine, and for many sooner would be better so that they can remember what it was like to look out the window and see two radials bolted to each wing before it is too late for them.... the population is ageing. The rest of us would have just wanted to know what it was like to see hear and smell it.

If you want some guidance in that, take a leaf out of the '3801 Society' book. You think your baby is expensive to buy build and run, have a talk to them. I can put you in touch with someone there who knows what the figures are, not just guesses what they are.

Not of late (due mainly to a change to desert scenery), I had been busy of a weekend keeping a private collection of Aussie Military vehicles serviced and running, and taking a hand in the restoration of others as well. So I am aware of the significance of our countries past machines, aircraft and vehicles.

So, it was interesting that you should choose to say I deigrated your organisation, where in actual fact I do support what you are doing in principle (as stated). I just asked a few searching questions and got landslided by someone who didn't read the question to start with and was very quick to attack where no threat existed.

Sounds like Hars may not have yet changed..... :ooh:

[Super Cecil]

It might only be a perception but the perception is it's just an ole boys club.

I have seen the Hars blokes at a few flyin's and airshows now and each time they don't improve, it's alright if the barriers are up and the public have their hands in their pockets then it's all smiles. Get them away from the microphone and they won't give you the time of day. A while ago at Temora one of the HARS chosen ones had just flown around in his machine and was at that machine in the GA park section, he looked like he was about to depart. I asked him if he was going to stay for the rest of the show he said " same old **** I've seen it all before" and after abusing some people walking around their aircraft departed for pastures greener.

I've seen it all before, around a dozen times at Temora and lots of other places all over the country in the last 30 years. The blokes at Temora would have to be the most professional open accesable pilots in the country and the display they give would be better than world class. This HARS blokes attitude was almost denigrating to the blokes at Temora. I have seen the HARS bolkes 4 times in the last couple of years and each time they reinforce the ole boys club title.

:(

[the wizard of auz]

you blokes at HARS want another Connie, have alook at the one in Manilla. Its 100% complete and was still flying when the government took it off of the yanks.
along with all the C47s, B18s and dacs, the place is a veritable working museum.

[WINGED WONDER]

I am going to cop a lot of flack here and am fully prepared to answer any of the critics that want to label me as unpatriotic or nitpicking but as an active (and financially concerned) member of the GA fraternity in this country, I have every right to ask and every right to expect an honest and accurate answer to these questions.
Wollongong aerodrome has a weight restriction for aircraft operating from this field. 1. Why does HARS receive an exemption to these restrictions whenever the Connie flys? especially when the aircraft is 10 times over the recommended weight for this airfield?
On every occasion that the Connie flys from this airfield, the field is closed and inspected for damage to the flight strip. So far, the damage to the airstrip has been extreme to say the least and has cost council (the community) over $50,000 to repair in the past 2 years. The damage is in the form of surface breakage and impact damage from landing with surface breakage being recorded as deep as 5 inches in places. There is also considerable damage caused whenever this aircraft conducts any 180 degree turns on the strip. This is serious, regular damage that could (and probably will) lead to a landing gear failure eventually, especially during the dynamic loads associated with landings. With the close proximity of housing (less than 100 metres in places) to the runway extremities, the resulting accident could have devastating consequences.
2. How often has HARS reported these landing incidents to the ATSB as required by the Regs?
3. When Shell Harbour Council issues HARS with the waiver to operate this grossly overweight aircraft from its field, does it realise that it also shares the majority of the liabilities for their operations during such occasions?
4. Do Councils insurers know that they are being placed in this rather ominous position of liability? and do the community know that on the say-so of 1 individual council officer, their continued viability and financial well-being is in serious jeopardy by allowing this over-weight aircraft to operate with a waiver of the safety requirements?
Council continues to claim, through their Mayor and certain council officers, that the upgrading of the airfield will see a major airline conducting RPT operations from Wollongong airfield. This is wrong and has no truth to it at all. Council does not have 1 airline remotely interested in servicing this region. This whole sordid little story is about making lots of money for one or two interested parties who are set to get quite rich with the upgrade.
5. How does HARS maintain their right to continue operating the Connie from Wollongong after the upgrade when the proposed upgrade does not bring the airfield up to the required standard for the continued operation of the Connie anyhow?
In the interest of safety, to not only the flying public but also to the people who choose to live next to this airport, it really is about time that CASA and the ATSB take a serious look at the implications of this aircraft’s continued operation from Wollongong airport. It is not acceptable for everyone to just bury their heads in the sand and hope this issue will go away because sadly it won’t.
:confused: Must also add, that evidently CASA may have eventually been forced into action on the operation of these aircraft and moves are afoot as we speak to have their operations serious curtailed and in some cases, even grounded indefinately.:\

[Feather #3]

Fascinating stuff. :eek:

G'day ;)

[WINGED WONDER]

Feather #3....in an earlier post, you claim HARS has the overwhelming support of the wider community in Wollongong but this is clearly not the case is it? Some in the community are seriously concerned about what this grubby little council is up to and why they are pushing the barrow so strongly for upgrading of the facilities - HARS just happens to be the convenient vehicle of the moment. The suggestion that an airstrip upgrade is going to entice a domestic carrier into the region is farsicle and just plain blatant lying on behalf of this council so therefore any upgrade will be purely only beneficial to HARS - it stands to reason then that in this case, HARS should contribute significantly to the upgrade of the facilities at the airport!:ugh: and some in the community are about to demand that HARS contribute AT LEAST 50% of these costs! But more in question at present is how the present arrangements for the upgrade came about and why council DID NOT initially go out to tender and awarded the contract to their bed-buddies in the slimy yellow trucks - $M3 without any public consultation, no tender and a two year warning that they would be awarded the contract is unacceptable on all accounts - no wonder ICAC has been called in and no wonder the potential regional sponsors for HARS are running for cover:uhoh: Sorry guys, HARS has walked head-long into one of the most questionable little councils in NSW - there is every chance you might have to nominate a captain to go down with the ship (and soon):E Hope you have all your ducks in a row?:ok:

[Aquaboy]

Feather #3: I visited HARS a couple of Fridays ago and must say I was appalled. Arrived there and no-one was even interested in talking to me EXCEPT to sell me some trashy old garbage and membership. As was said before in other posts, it was obvious that this was an old-boys club and outsiders were not welcome unless they had heaps of money and were prepared to part with it in the name of HARS. I may only be an up and coming newbee to the industry but so were all the other old hands hanging around the place once. It is people like me (and the public) that will keep these aircraft flying into the future and the lack of interest showed to me personally (and not my wallet only) has certainly changed my mind about having anything to do with your organisation.
Winged Wonder - any chance of enlightening us on the progress of the enquiry/investigation although I would guess most of this stuff would be on hold over the silly season? and what sponsors have pulled out of the HARS project?

[WINGED WONDER]

Aquaboy, sorry about not replying earlier but have just had a glorious 4 days in sunny downtown Malacoota - now THAT is a place everybody should visit at least once in a lifetime! Your guess about the silly season is quite correct....investigations are ongoing and there is some news to be publicised in the early new year - stay tuned. BHP (now BlueScope) has pulled their lot out of the HARS foundation, literally...they were not comfortable with the prospects of ICAC sniffing around about the way this issue was dealt with by Shell Harbour council. Rumour has it that Cleary Brothers might also have pulled out their plans to relocate their earthmoving museum in with HARS too but some have had problems linking bulldozers with historic aircraft so it is probably not a bad thing afterall. Appears their involvement in the airfield upgrade has ruffled not a few feathers in their industry and they are ducking for cover also.:\ Could prove to be an interesting year in the old Gong:} hopefully ICAC might be able to sort out the chaff from the wheat and make sense about what has happened down there.;) and there are a few locals that are rubbing their hands together with glee at the prospects of finally getting at the truth. Can't move down there at the moment for the rats jumping for cover.

[Malfunction Junction]

HARS relocated to the sunny South Coast about 3 years ago. Was supposed to build a $M21 museum complex in 3 or 4 stages. Was supposed to have stage 1 up and running in time for AVIEX 2002. HARS's broken promises were a major catalist for the demise of AVIEX at a loss of nearly $600,000. Still to this day they have not completed stage 1 (only a meagre $M1.1) and I was informed yesterday that they are $500,000 short on the stage 1 project alone!
Now I ask you; what sort of council would approve such a project, AND commit heaps of community money to boot, for an outfit that was $M20 short on a $M21 project? I hope HARS were planning to be in the area for the long haul because at that rate, the project should be nearing completion around 2044 (and the Connie will definately be an antique by then).;) Did no-one do their homework and come to the conclusion that this outfit was broke and had no possible means of achieving their goals in a reasonable time frame?:uhoh:
WINGED WONDER: Ive seen that pile of junk that Cleary Bros passes off as their earthmoving museum - you cannot be serious suggesting that HARS was intending to include this crap in their museum?

[WINGED WONDER]

Mal, certainly am serious. Illawarra Mercury ran a story about the wonders of the airport a few days ago and highlighted the marvels of HARS, the outstanding Tractor and Dozer display being installed by Cleary Brothers and claiming the fantastic advantages of the NSW Air Charter launch.....on that one, failed to mention that their charter aircraft are no longer available (despite the fact they only ever did 1 charter in the past 4-6months) and that the same mob just featured in the Sydney papers claiming they are broke and can no longer provided their famous shark patrols.:\
On a positive note, I saw an advertisement for shark vacancies on the Wollongong/South Coast beaches....seems there is no longer any threat to them from the little yellow planes that used to put the fear of chr*st up them every weekend! (haha)

[Malfunction Junction]

I can now confirm that Bluescope Steel (formerly BHP) have retracted all support for anything happening at the Illawarra Regional Airport including anything to do with the upgrading of the runways.
They have indicated they have no intentions of any further involvement with the HARS projects, unless there is some complete change of attitudes in Bluescope and quite firmly indicated that they will not be getting involved with the upgrade projects on the airfield due to their own concerns about questionable processes and management issues.:* For a company of this size and stature to pull-back from such a community project says volumes about what might be happening at the Illawarra Regional Airport. I might also add that with the retraction of that level of support would say that a lot of projects on this airport are now dead-in-the-water!

[WINGED WONDER]

MJ,
Seems like you might be onto something of substance. Have been watching and listening to a very serious vendetta unfold at the Illawarra Regional Airfield of late. Appears this council has now targeted the helicopter business on the field for closure. Due to ICAC being called for some of the issues that have already been covered on this thread, a council officer has made it his business to close the operator down by not allowing them to renew their lease without going out to expressions of interest. This operator has claimed foul play for several years and claimed this was threatened over 4 years ago and now it is actually happening. Hard enough to make a living in GA nowadays anyway without being forced out of business by crooked council officers running their own personal agendas. Anybody have any further information about what is actually happening down the Illawarra or anybody else had suspect or troubled dealings with this council in the past?:\

[shortandsmelly]

Heard something about the choppers getting booted around April - this despite being the only operator that pays full commercial rates on the airfield. Figure that one out...:confused:

[fullflaps]

Seems this place needs a shake up!:*
There was trouble in the pipe line when I was down there flying, and it seems that the council officers won't let up. The last I heard was the council wanted HARS to get the hanger for a maintaince facility last year when the schools last lease came up for renewal. When the helicopter school got the hanger back for another year, the council officer involved was livid, as HARS are still out in the chilly winds with nothing but frame work on their own hanger.
That place appears to be turning into the field of welfare with nearly all the oganisations getting council support of some type or another, but the rest on tender hooks everyday with the promise of being thrown off the place! :confused:

If you want the prospects of starting a business in Wollongong, having a five year lease with NO option to keep your business after that, then welcome! welcome! welcome!
:mad:
Keep your chins up down there, and don't let the :mad: get you down!

As if GA ain't hard enough to make a living in........

FF.:ok:

[WINGED WONDER]

Just read an article in the Illawarra Mercury about the woes befalling the helicopter operator in the 'Gong..appears the stories about a council vendetta are correct. Spoke with 'a representative' of the organisation concerned this morning and have been told that the matter is now before the Ombudsman, relevent Minister and has even had Little Johnny in contact with Bob Carr seeking some answers!:ugh: This could be a stoush worth watching!
Good luck fellas and keep smiling!;)

[PROPSWINGA]

Was aksed over the weekend to review the case and inspect supporting evidence of interferrence and council's running smear campaign against the heli operator at Wollongong from "an outsiders' point of view. Believe you me; this issue is quite BIG and deep seated! Over the past 5 years, this operator has been singled out and had certain fees increased by a whopping 120% (in one go) whilst all other airfield users received a 10% increase for the exact same services. These increases were payback! They have had cameras installed by council through airservices specifically targetting their business operations and council has run a campaign of smears through claims of unsafe operations with CASA (all unfounded). They have even had council installing equipment on their building which had absolutely nothing to do with their operations, and then council expecting the business to pick up 90% of the running costs. There is more! The evidence supporting a vendetta and payback is substantial and quite scary - I think the only feasible result here is the immediate appointment of an administrator to this council and a thorough and complete investigation by ICAC!:\
Good luck fells; appears you'll need every bit of it!:mad:

[PROPSWINGA]

Just confirmed - an investigator HAS been appointed to this case. Stay tuned for the outcome.
Keep ur chins up down there and watch ya backs!:ok:

Swinga

[Malfunction Junction]

I bit the bullet last week and paid a visit to HARS at the Albion Park Airport and must admit, I too was very sadly disappointed. The place really is just a scrap yard with very little enthusiasm from anyone in attendance. I cannot see for the life of me how they could survive with so little patronage and really only open for 2 days of the week. I was invited to join but had to decline...couple of grand for a newsletter and a ride in a bucket of bolts masquerading as an aeoplane was a bit rich. I did quizz one chap on what had been written on here and he said "we are not allowed to participate in that website so I cannot comment, but we do all have a peek occasionally cause we find out more from there than the HeadShed is prepared to tell us".
See, whoever said Pprune wasn't informative?;)

[fullflaps]

All seems to be hotting up in the Illawarra......

Herd from a reliable gossip columnist yesterday that there appears to be one councillor and two council personnal that have rolled over and are assisting authorities with investigations on the hangar issues on the airport. :}
With the issue raised in the mockery during the preceding week and other national media crews now wanting in, it may make for interesting times in the near future for the SCC.:eek:

FF.:ok:

[OpsNormal]

With all due respect, I didn't start this thread to bash the living hell out of HARS.

I did however ask a valid question or two of those who are involved within HARS to which it would appear have been largely ignored for whatever reason.

We do not live in a police state (well, not just yet anyway), so find it hard to believe that they are not permitted to post freely in their own time, and of their own experiences.

I would ask that those wishing to post on this thread about these other matters that the thread has encompassed, please desist and start your own thread, don't use this one.

Ta....

OpsN;)

[fullflaps]

Ops Normal,

In the overall picture it appears that the HARS situation and the other situations on the airport are related on one way or another.
We all know that HARS is at the foot of a large hill in their struggle to keep those large aircraft in the air, and we all wish them the very best in addressing the problem. But this problem with the council and the other operator was festering when HARS arrived at the airport and word has it that an unnamed council officer offered the hangar in question to HARS as a maintaince facility when the other operation was to be ejected last year. I personally think that while HARS are "the innocent party" in all the problems at the airport, they are involved up to their belly buttons.
I too would like to see all the bitching and scratching go away, but it's not going to happen while there are businesses getting wrongly shafted, while other businesses are getting a dream run from the persons holding the rod!

Happy Flying,

FF.

[WINGED WONDER]

On Monday 31/1/05, the Illawarra Mercury ran an article titled “Upgrading runway firmly ‘on horizon’”. Finally, in the article, the President of HARS admitted that the runway was in need of an upgrade as the Constellation was doing damage to the flight strip. The President went on to say that the damage being caused to the strip is ‘minimal’; come on Mr D, closer of the flight strip for inspection after every landing and the cost for repairs now in excess of $50,000 in the past year alone cannot possibly be called minimal? The article also went on to say the GM of Shellharbour Council had told the Deputy Prime Minister some time back that the airfield required an urgent upgrade to encourage an airline to service the Illawarra; a clear exaggeration of the truth. (Impulse serviced the area with B1900’s with the airfield in its present condition for 3 years without any appreciable affect on their operations.) It is about time that council came clean on this issue and told their community that there really is no airline interested in servicing this region for a variety of reasons – least of which is the condition of the flight strip. What they also haven’t told the community is that if an Airline were to service the Illawarra, the costs associated with such a venture would now be almost impossible to justify considering the new security requirements needing to be established prior to any RPT operations being approved. A conservative estimate puts the overall costs at over $M2.5 for security fencing, baggage screening facilities etc etc, so we are really back to square one on this subject – the proposed runway upgrade really is for one aircraft to operate from the Illawarra! When we consider that as yet, this aircraft/operation has not generated one cent for the community of the Illawarra in the past 2 years, we really have to question the value of any such decision to significantly upgrade these facilities for the benefit of such a select few. Thankfully, the reporter for this article has finally seen the light and reports that several of the ideas being floated about the airport are nothing more than “pie in the sky’. Well done Bill!
On a final note, the President goes on to say in the article “that some in the community were pursuing a malicious and vexatious campaign against the airport” I go on record right now stating that my concerns for the airport are anything-but vexatious or malicious. I, like many others in the community, are concerned that ratepayers money (read MY MONEY) is fairly and properly spent and accounted for. I am yet to see one indication that spending $M2 upgrading the flight strip at the airport will bring any tangible benefits to the wider community and until someone shows me otherwise, I will retain that position.

[OpsNormal]

I asked that you start your own thread as this one now no longer is following the questioning line I started. Some of you don't seem to get it to well.....

W. While I'd hate for everyone to lose what they posted by deleting my original post, would you mind padlocking so that if they need to they can cut and paste what they might need from this thread?

Thanks,

OpsN.:}

[WINGED WONDER]

OpsNormal, I certainly hope you don’t remove your initial entry on this thread or that ‘W’ locks the thread? Your initial questions to HARS sparked some serious debates on the garbage happening at the Illawarra Airport and has caused some in the community to examine more closely the sordid little arrangements in play down there.
It is obvious that the community is not being told the whole truth about what is going on down there at all and afterall, it IS their money that is being thrown around like there is no tomorrow.
Try this little chestnut on for size:
We have just discovered that 2 principles of HARS and 2 others (engineers) have formed a private company to provide maintenance facilities to HARS (and possibly others). Sounds reasonably innocuous on the surface but digging deeper, the true impact of this arrangement becomes apparent.
· The community/members/sponsors build the facilities.
· No cost to the private company!
· HARS pays the rent
· No cost to the private company!
· HARS provides the tooling and GSE
· No cost to the private company!
· The volunteers provide the manpower/workforce.
· No cost to the private company!
· The private company charges HARS for any maintenance carried out!

Not necessarily anything illegal happening here but morally the arrangement is not at all acceptable and I wonder how many of the volunteers/membership/sponsors are aware that their efforts to keep these aircraft flying will also provide a nice little earner to a very select few of their membership?
:\

[Feather #3]

WW,

Pity you don't join HARS and come to the members briefings. Then you'd know about the other 3 companies which make up the organisation. No doubt further research will achieve results.

I'd suggest you save the shock horror revelations for something meaningful.

BTW, the first hangar is well on the way.

G'day ;)

[Woomera]

This thread has run it's course, if not out of control and this seems like a good point to . Click!

W

[Woomera]

In the interests of balance and fairness;

We are reliably informed that there was work being performed by several HARS people and whilst the money was going back to HARS, it was clearly outside the bounds of the HARS approval.

The organisation who had previously executed the work, quite rightly, took action with CASA; and HARS given knowledge of it, had taken the appropriate action with the staff concerned.

HARS issues aside might I make the observation to the Winged Wonder that he should support any ugrade to the field if only on the basis that properly promoted and maintained airports actually bring money and business to the local area.

I think it is Orange ??and several others who are spending money upgrading big time and advertising their airports and towns as places in which you need to do business.

In the US every town that is going forward has one and actively compete for the business that serves it.

Build it and they will come.