World Helicopter Championships 2005

[helifun]

I hear the committee of the helicopter club of great britain have screwed thing up again they have cancelled the world helicopter championships next year at kemble airfield. apparently they did not want the event to be on a grand scale with public or the media in attendance and did not like the idea of having to share control over the running of the airfield side of things so cancelled the event. the guys organising it have spent the last two years working on this and have now been stuffed by the short sighted pompous members of the club committee. this committee is a tiny majority of the club elected by a slightly larger number of their mates. its about time they started to respect the views of the 450 members of the helicopter club.

[Flying Lawyer]

What's your source for that snippet?
It will come as a surprise to the civvy and mil teams who were practising last weekend - in a practice organised by the Helicopter Club of GB.
I've heard Kemble was considered as a venue and rejected, but that's very different from what you've posted.

[Anne Tenner]

I am not sure where you are getting your information from, but you are incorrect.

The World Helicopter Championships have not been cancelled.

After a lot of consideration it was felt that Kemble might not be a suitable location, for several reasons, not least of which was safetly, as I understand the airfield would remain operational throughout the event.

Other locations are currently under consideration and apparently may shortly be nearing conclusion.

The committee is determined that this world champs will be run as safely and as successfully as it was the last time it was hosted in England, in Wroughton in 1992.

The organisers were in attendence at the British team training event at the weekend, as were most of the committee, standing outside in the biting cold wind, helping train the team to achieve their full potential as the team of the host nation.

Organising the World Championships is a non-trivial task. Whilst I am sure that between now and the event there will be many ups and downs and organisational difficulties, I also know that the committee are working very hard and giving up a lot of their time to make this a success for the club.

The club is very friendly, with members from all walks of life who come along to the various events, both flying and non-flying which are organised throughout the year. A lot of effort goes into thinking up new events that will be enjoyed by or useful to the club members.

If you are one of the 450 members, and feel your views are not being respected, why not give the Chairman a ring? He is a very friendly, down-to-earth person, not at all pompous, who I am sure would be very happy to chat to you about your views.

Much more useful to the club than just bitching - especially when you are wrong.

[helifun]

Firstly I did not state the championships were cancelled altogether just at kemble.

Information came from one of the committee members.

The guys organizing the event for the last 2 years have been doing a fantastic job at their own expense. Safety at kemble was never an issue along with, I am sure, all the other reasons that the committee will no doubt quote for canceling the event at this late stage at kemble.

The members of the british team at the practice this weekend had not been told of the cancellation of the event at Kemble even though as you say the chairman and other committee members were in attendance. Why ?

Lets hear the real story from the two guys who were organizing the event. I am sure it will come out eventually.

If any of the 450 members do feel there views are not being respected it is pointless talking to the Chairman or any other member of the committee as they do not listen any way and go off and do their own thing as any long standing member of the club knows.

As for the events organised by the club just look at who always goes to them its the same people who organize them or their mates in the club. The majority of the club members are never asked what, when or where they would like to go, the events are also much too expensive.

I am sure that after last years agm the committee members will change the rules to suit them selves as they did many years ago to get rid of people they did not like.

[Head Turner]

I have heard similar ripples from HCGB members that the newer members feel they are outside the thoughts of the established members. In other word get a cold shoulder from the older members. Perhap the rules should be altered to bring the newer members more into the fold.

[ppheli]

The Club has always shied away from publicising the British (and by inference the World) Championships on the reason/excuse that they do not have public liability cover. Choosing an airfield, such as Kemble, may (or may not...) get around this issue. Perhaps that's what's up here?? Kemble is not exactly a busy field, so closing it for plank-wing ops for a few days is hardly likely to hurt them, and for those plank-wingers who did want to use it that week, there's a great alternative up the road called EGBJ....

The owners of Kemble are, of course, keen to get as much publicity for events as possible, and their original press release in June stated "The competition flying will culminate in a Festival of Helicopters on Saturday 21st August with a chance to see military and civil helicopters from around the World. Helicopters will be on static and flying display throughout the day: including a static display of vintage and veteran helicopters, some from as early as the 1950’s with many still in flying condition. "

Both Kemble's site http://www.kemble.com and the 2005 championships site http://www.whc2005.com are both still listing Kemble as the venue.

Helifun, one other thing. What's this about HCGB events being "much too expensive"? The majority of members are very successful high-net-worth individuals, and this profile of people tend not to consider things as "expensive" or not - they are more likely to look at prices being "worth it" or not, something quite different. The exclusivity such an event gives them (rubbing shoulders with people of their own ilk) means that higher prices are probably OK. If it keeps moaners out, then I guess it's worth keeping the prices up! (BTW, Helifun, did you used to be known as "CountryMember"?)

[tagg]

ppheli

I think your last paragragh sums up what helifun and Head Turner were saying in their previous posts.

[purple chopper]

I know the two people that have been organising the event for the HCGB at Kemble and I know that they would never have compromised any safety aspects. Kemble also holds a number of highly successful flying events each year with the public in attendance and have always conformed with any UK CAA requirements.

They have organised the last two very successful British Championships and most people that know them were expecting the World event to be of the same if not higher standard.

[Whirlygig]

The majority of members are very successful high-net-worth individuals
You what???

No, that should read "The majority of members... who attend the events... are very successful high-net-worth individuals..."

There are also many members who, like me, ain't got two ha'pennies to scratch their ar$e with 'cos all hard-earned dosh goes on flying!

But hey, ppheli, I ain't moanin'; just don't attend the events so you can be rest assured that this particular riff-raff will steer clear!

Cheers

Whirlygig

[Whirlybird]

There are also many members who, like me, ain't got two ha'pennies to scratch their ar$e with 'cos all hard-earned dosh goes on flying!

Yep, another one of those right here. I've been a member for ages, and haven't been to an event yet; can't afford it. :{

[Heliport]

Ah, so the event isn't cancelled after all. They're just not holding it at Kemble. Not much of a story, is it?

When you said:
"I hear the committee ..... have cancelled the world helicopter championships next year at kemble airfield
and "apparently they did not want the event to be on a grand scale ........ and did not like the idea of having to share control over the running of the airfield side of things so cancelled the event, people must have thought you meant they'd cancelled the event. Odd that.
The other odd thing is that, if you're genuinely concerned about the HCGB, you register as a member of the most widely read helicopter forum in the world and bad mouth the people who run it.
Why don't you stand for election to the committee? If you're right about the general dissatisfaction with the way it's run, you'll be swept in.

Heliport

[Anne Tenner]

Well I don't have two ha'pennies to rub together either. I go to several events each year, usually all of the free ones, such as fly-ins (even if I have to drive), and the reasonably priced events, but just steer clear of the few that are out of my price-range.

There are lots of different events each year and I know that a lot of effort goes into thinking up new places to go, such as the recent visit to Bletchley Park (cheap and non-flying). Some of the events are very useful to helicopter pilots, like the bi-annual visit to the Heathrow Controllers.

I see lots of new faces at the various events, although I also see most of the Committee, who seem to come to the events regardless of whether they might encounter "riff-raff".

Of the many members I know, both on or off the committee, there certainly is diversity in their backgrounds. I know a second-hand car dealer, two engineers, a pub-owner, and an ex-para etc etc. Whilst they might have done well for themselves, they are very down to earth, and certainly not the sort to want to exclude "riff-raff"

When I encounter new faces at club events, I always take the trouble to go over and say hello, as do many of the members I know. Consequently I am always making new friends within the club and have never felt there was any wealth-discrimination - believe me if there was, they'd chuck me out for a start!

I am sure that the club does not want to get rid of people it does not like, although I could sympathise if it got weary of one particular trouble-maker who does his best to damage the club and its members whenever possible. He seems to confuse people not liking him with his inability to engender trust or respect, and blames the club for his own shortcomings. But that's another story.

So Helifun, are you the aptly named Country Member? (If so - we still remember!)

[helifun]

Ppheli your right the HCGB has never publicised the british championships not just for the lack of public liability insurance but because they do not have any insurance liability cover. They make all the competitors in the british championships sign an indemnity form and hope this is enough, at least kemble would have had all the insurance possible in place due to the airshows they put on each year.

It’s obviously a long time since you have flown into Kemble, the reason they would have continued with their normal daily activities is that they are a very busy active GA airfield. Flying schools, both fixed wing and rotary, operate from the airfield and the maintenance facilities are second to none. A lot of money has been invested in kemble and the championships would have been a great opportunity to show this to the world, and yes closing the “plank-wing ops for a few days” would have hurt them. What a prestigious international aviation event like a world championships needs is all the support facilities of a high class airfield.

Ppheli your wrong when you say that the “majority of members are very successful high-net-worth individuals, and this profile of people tend not to consider things as "expensive"’ the club is made up of a cross selection of people from many walks of life and many of whom joined the club to meet like mined people interested in helicopters and have fun. That’s why the helicopter weekend fly in at Weston is such great fun, perhaps kemble will have another helicopter show, like they had in previous years, in 2005.

Your comments are exactly why the club does not have an even larger membership as many potential members know that the minority of these high-net-worth individuals run the club for other high-net-worth individuals in the HCGB and so would not make them welcome and do not make them welcome.

No i am not CountryMember.

[Granny]

World Helicopter championship!!!:D
Is the winner the Worlds best Helicopter Pilot? !!!:hmm:
Dear o dear only the Poms would hold an event like that

[Heliport]

only the Poms would hold an event like that

Not quite Granny.
As Anne Tenner pointed out earlier in the thread, the last time the World Championships were held in the UK was 1992.

:rolleyes:

[Gordy]

For what its worth---- I was a member of the 1992 US team that competed at Wroughton. It was very well hosted and you "Poms" had your act together back then. The US team had the same similar issues that are being mentioned here (you are not alone!!!). I will make one point though----A lot of foreign teams were not happy that the Brits had pilots competing in event 5 only. We felt that in order to compete in event 5 (freestyle), a pilot should have competed in events 1 thru 4. The US team was not able to compete in event 5 due to insurance issues.
I am no longer involved in the US helicopter club or the US helicopter team due to "the select few with the money who like to control EVERYTHING, but no longer fly"---my own quote.

Hope you all work it out, because I had a great time at Wroughton and met a whole bunch of pilots from around the world. Good Luck.

[purple chopper]

Granny the reason it is called The World Helicopter Championships is because it is the WORLD. Next years event will be the 12th WORLD Helicopter Championships and the 11th was held in Austria in 2002.

This event attracted 15 Countries from around the WORLD including Japan, Russia, China, and USA. 56 civilian and military crews competed and it attracted 65,000 public visitors.

Any Country can enter the Championships as long as they are member of the FAI (www.fai.org) which I see from the FAI website Australian aero club are members. Why not get a team up and enter.

[Steve76]

Why not get a team up and enter.

Hmmm.... Lets see. Own house and car one day or enter "world" helicopter championships.

;)

Where have the "worlds" been held in previous years?
Who pays for the training time and transportation and what is the prize money like?

I think the real world championships occur every minute of the day where helicopter pilots rescue persons off mountains, longline logs, service offshore oil rigs, show humanity their planet, transfer patients from roads to hospitals, fight fires, muster cattle, keep cell towers working, service oil and gas reserves and ....

[Whirlybird]

I think the real world championships occur every minute of the day where helicopter pilots rescue persons off mountains, longline logs, service offshore oil rigs, show humanity their planet, transfer patients from roads to hospitals, fight fires, muster cattle, keep cell towers working, service oil and gas reserves and ....


Yes, possibly. But does that mean we shouldn't have the world championships? Because if so, then logically...

We'd better stop all car racing/rallying, because the real championships take place with all the long distance truck drivers, taxi drivers, and anyone else who drives for a living.

And we'd better get rid of horse racing and show jumping, becasue the cowboys do it better.

As for mountain walking, the "Three Peaks" and similar challenges, well, the mountain rescue teams would win hands down if they bothered to enter.

Forget all martial arts championships; the police, bouncers, bodyguards etc are doing it every day of the week.

As for writing competions; hey, I write for a living; what do these people think they're doing - bloody amateurs having short story writing competitions!

Etc, etc etc etc etc.

[AlanM]

Is Heythrop Park too small for the WHC?? Seemed to work well for the British Champs this August..

http://www.pbase.com/kbmphotography/image/32321756.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/kbmphotography/image/32321728.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/kbmphotography/image/32321496.jpg

[B47]

As a recent member of the HCGB and a first time competitor in this year's British Championships (yes, the white 47 above) I would like to lay to rest the whinging that the HCGB is a millionaire's club and a closed shop.

My co-pilot and I could not have been made more welcome, particularly in entering the Championships and everyone was extremely friendly. It helps if you have something to fly of course, but no one cares, or probably even knows, whether the machine you arrive in is owned or rented or if you're a cash strapped PPL just hitching a ride. Before joining I'd heard all the rumours that everyone was loaded with private turbines - it's just not true.

Granted, the centre of gravity for the social events is in the south, but that's where most members are. It doesn't suit us Northerners but the answer is for more people to join.

Don't knock it 'till you've tried it....

[helifun]

AlanM heythrop park did work well for the british championsips this year.

Is heythrop park too small for the WHC?? possibly. why ?

The british championships only had 28 competitors the world event could attract up to 60 competing helicopters.

Close to enstone just about worked well although the UK CAA were not happy with how close some of the fixed wing aircraft were flying to the competition area. English speaking helicopter pilots coped well with the close proximity of enstone and the brize norton zone but issues may a rise with some of the overseas crews. In fact a number of the competitors flew into the brize zone but only got away with it as it was the weekend.

The act guy was having difficulty coping with the competitors and visitors and concerns were rasied about having to fly over the main building to reach the competition field as well as all the trees on site.

Fire cover was commented on ie only one vehicle and crew but at least three areas to cover with very poor access to the sites and the same for the medical cover.

Fuel at enstone was expensive and included a landing fee for each up take.

And ha ho it’s a public venue with public footpaths crossing it and open to un restricted public access who’s going to pay for the insurance here then ?

B47 all your comments are true and actually reinforce the view that a small minority of the club have a millionaire's club mentality but they are the ones controlling the HCGB regardless of the views of the membership.

The reason that you were both welcomed was that you were mixing with the nice guys in the club while the millionaire's club members (who all own private turbines) were in their own social circle avoiding the riff raff.

[AlanM]

Thanks for that reply - it's a shame as it was a great venue (socially at least!)

What about quieter RAF stations, Benson/Odiham for example? Or even Shawbury or Middle Wallop as they send a few crews!

I have to say that as a non member of the HCGB, I was made to feel very welcome by a number of member's and organising staff, inc Pat Malone.

Fingers crossed that a location can be found.

[XT244]

Of course, I vote for Middle Wallop. :ok:
The ex.Home of my RAF XT244

If actually Middle Wallop then we flight the long way back to the roots of this ship.
Regards

http://www.ils-online.ch/cgi-bin/album/data/media/44/DSC_1500-small.JPG

EDIT: Correction. Please read AAC (Army Air Corps). RAF is wrong. Sorry

[zerosum]

helifun

I note that your original message was dated the same day as you registered with pprune and I suspect that you did so with a view to making mischief based on half truths and gossip.
Take a look at this web site
http://www.millini.co.uk/cerebos.html
It makes them tastier!

[Anne Tenner]

Helifun,
Well there's a mis-nomer if ever there was one!

Thank you B47 for backing up - as a new member- everything I have been trying to say. I am sure we must have crossed paths, as I swang my bucket, and was busy being accepted by both the Millionaire's Club and the "riff-raff" as no doubt you were too.

Maybe not, maybe the fact that we were friendly, you a new member and me a member of some years with a licence but no dosh, confines us both to "riff-raff" !

Must make a mental note to find out who the Millionaires Club are and who owns their helis rather than renting them, so I can find out who my friends are and who is shunning me.

Sounds to me rather like Helifun suffers from a chip on the shoulder - Lighten up! We are all "anoraks" when it comes to flying. A real interest in flying knows no social strata and everyone can enjoy talking about it. Try forgetting who you are or what you can't afford, just talk to fellow enthusiasts at the club about helicopter interests and all will be OK. Don't Moan - ENJOY! The glass can be half full as well as half empty!

[Pat Malone]

Gadzooks, the secret of the British Championships is out!
I had hoped that by publishing only 12 pages on them in the autumn issue of the HCGB magazine Rotor Torque, and two pages in AOPA's General Aviation, they would pass unnoticed. The advance notice threads on pprune didn't help. This means there's a risk somebody might see the seven pages on the World Championships in the winter edition of Rotor Torque. What's to be done?
Anyone who accuses the HCGB of elitism has some serious issues to address. I've been to many events as a member, and even more, recently, as the publisher of their magazine, and they're the most clubbable bunch you could imagine. (And not in the sense of baby seals, either).

[purple chopper]

We should not confuse the right to comment/complain/question the running of any organisation as moaning or someone having a chip on their shoulder. Everyone has the right to question and to stimulate healthy debate.

Although it is true to say that the way a club member highlighted issues last year may not have been supported by a lot of members the actual issues raised were heavily supported by Helicopter Club members.

Having been established over 30 years ago perhaps the club should put out a questionnaire to all its members to establish what they all think. A few well worded questions could be included with any future committee election ballot forms and with pre paid envelopes included could ensure a full response.

[northpoint]

I agree with Anne Tenner & Zerosum, helifun has a serious chip on his shoulder and judging by the tone of his ill founded tirade he's been using a lot of vinegar too.
If the HCGB is run by such a bunch of arrogant, elitist, self serving nepotists who seek to exclude and humiliate him on every possible occasion then why does he want to be a member of such a club?
I've never heard such pathetic nonsense. You had it right Anne Tenner, why does he not stand up and change things instead of hiding behind a vale of anonimity on pprune sniping at the heels of people who actually put themselves out and get stuff done.

Purple Chopper:- I don\'t think anyone seriously questions anybody\'s right to discuss and question matters but before \'going public\' then there is an obligation to ensure that you have got your facts straight.
This will include speaking to a number of people to ensure that you have all the information that is available and not just that which a particular individual feels supports their own position. (We can all be guilty of selective recall on occasion.)

[splitneedles]

I think I must belong to a different HCGB from Helifun. I've been a member for a while and remember well the first Club event I went to in my R(iff Raff)22. The Chairman and secretary both made a point of coming to introduce themselves and to introduce me to other members so that I immediately felt at home.
Turbine owning members have even been known to accept a lift from me.
The Helicopter Club is like life itself: you get out what you put in.
I thought we were all grown up people in the HCGB but perhaps I was wrong

[XT244]

Dear Heli-Friends in UK

I follow this discussion since a few days.
What shall foreign vistors think about this?
I plan to visit the contest next summer with my R(iff Raff) Bell47 (see posting above from 4th. Dec.).
Under this circumstances ........:confused:

Best regards

[md 600 driver]

as a member of the hcgb for a few years now ,after joining with a enstrom f28f and working up to a turbine i have always found the commitee and staff to be very welcoming and inviting even though i am northener from yorkshire

helifun

do i know you ?
why not join the commitee and change things
maybe you did try to join the comitee try again next year if you are who i think you are i supported you
regards steve

my 5 pence [or 2.5 cents ]worth

[redrod01]

Hello All,

I am writing to say I was extremely shocked to hear about the cancellation of The World Champs at Kemble. The organisers have spent two years or more planning this event and to have it cancelled at the 11th hour must be soul destroying!!

Anyway, as one of the three marshallers controlling the aircraft at Heythrop Park this year, I would be pleased to see the Worlds moved there. It is a wonderful venue and has more than adequate space to accommodate the expected aircraft.

We have discussed the safety issues and are sure that, if requested, we would be very pleased to marshall at the World Champs. The Competitors Parking area might have to be relocated to one of the larger fields but that is not a problem if the grass is cut and the residue is baled and removed.

Otherwise, I guess Middle Wallop could be an alternative!

Good luck to all with the pending re-organisation anyway.


Redrod01

[jerry712731]

I am confused about this thread

Are the Championships being held at Kemble or what ?

As I posted in an earlier thread, if there is some doubt, Shoreham would be a good venue, closer to the continent and a reasonable amount of accomodation and night life in Brighton.
Rumour has it that the management would go out of thier way to hold the event and it is the home field to a previous freestyle champion. It has been posted that every tom dick and Harry would only enter the Freestyle championship when it was last held in the UK, but we did win :)



Will it be at kemble or do the organisers need help to ensure that this event is held in the UK and given the high profile it deserves and make Helicopters more acceptable in the UK

JJ

[XT244]

The side FAI.ORG has nothing about this.:confused:

What's now?

[helifun]

It’s interesting that people choose to attack the person with a view or comment rather than look at and see the points being made. yes i and many others do care about the club and this forum is the place to highlight concerns as it is accessed by a large number of the club members. yes i have tried to change the many aspects commented on here from the committee without success.

The arrival this week of the current issue of the club magazine highlights many of the points that have been made. the chairman’s ramblings are exactly that. articles about wonderfully expensive trips again and again …………………. By the same people.

And wow how the committee must hate someone ! the new articles sent out all but name the person they are after.

will new members have to have declare any criminal record ? will you be thrown out if they find out you have a record at a later date ? will the club have the id card before the rest of the uk ?

but it will be ok if kill someone when drink driving as all driving offences are excluded !!!! so that’s all right then.

the right to veto a committee member even though he they had been elected by a vote from the membership ?

yes the committee are volunteers and everyone recognizes that but look past the trees – the reason no one puts their name forward is because the membership are not informed of the seats available until about 3 weeks before the agm. why was a notice not included in the current issue if the club magazine inviting nominations ? why are the name of the committee members to be replaced not published in good time ?

changes in the clause for the position of secretary mean that there could be a non-director serving until they die. i don not see that as a fair system of rule unless you live in zambia !!

if all of the paperwork that arrived this week from the committee is not an example of what is wrong with the club then ha ho i’ll put my new rose colored sunglasses on again and live happily ever after – just like real life

[zerosum]

OK, helifun, lets just take a look at what you say.
The chairmans ramblings, as you call them, do in fact cover some the cheapest events that the club has run this year and quite often when there is a charge it only to cover lunch - or do you expect a free lunch as well? There were no restrictions on the numbers for these events so you need not have had any fear of rejection, all you needed to do was put your name down.

I’m sure that you have been to some interesting place and had some interesting experiences so why not tell the magazine editor about them. That way there would be some new faces in the magazine.

In 2003 nine out of sixteen events were FREE. In 2004 ten out of seventeen events were FREE or at less than £10 per head, there were even some events which did include a FREE LUNCH! That does not sound expensive to me.

Nobody ever asks club members what, where or when they would like to go, you say. The events secretary is always asking members for suggestions (see page 9 of the winter edition of Rotor Torque), so come on lets hear something positive from you. Just what would you like to do and what would you be prepared to pay? If you give the guy a call he always takes notice of what members say and as you will have noticed he always gives due thanks and acknowledgement of all help and suggestions he receives.

If as you say you care about the club then why do you not use the club's own web site and the members forum. You above anybody should know about this. What have you to fear from doing so?

There is always plenty of time to nominate, or be nominated, for election to the club's management committee. And as Anne Tenner said if you really feel that you represent the groundswell of opinion within the club then you should stand for election, you'd walk it. And no, you would not be rejected by the encumbents all but one of whom are obliged by the club's rules to retire with no immediate possibility of re-election at the next AGM. Start your campaign now! You can work out who is due to retire by reference to the clubs rules and minutes of previous AGMs. Or its probably easier just to ask the Chairman or secretary; it’s not a state secret.

By the way, I object to being described as riff-raff.

[Whirlygig]

...er, zerosum,...er... it was me who first used the phrase "riff-raff" to paraphrase another Ppruner's post. It was self-deprecating and not directed at anyone - I don't think helifun used that term.

This is a discussion where I can see both sides. For whatever reason, and you can argue against it until the cows come home, but it is my impression that the HCGB is a bit elitist. OK, I have only been a member for a short while and I believe that things have changed in the last few months. All sorts of people out there can say, "oh no, Whirly, they're not elitist" and maybe they're not BUT that is the impression I have got. Sorry.

Secondly, I am Chairman of car club which is run entirely by volunteers. We have all sorts of members who appear to have nothing better to do than whinge but will not give up the time to help improve things. So I understand that, unless the committee of any club have feedback and input from the membership, then the committee can only act as they see best and within their sphere of experience.

Cheers

Whirlygig

[splitneedles]

Hi Whirlygig
Must confess to a momentary SOH failure there. I think that we should join forces to form "The Riff-Raff Tendency", a new ultra elitist group within the HCGB, shunning all Private Turbine owners or indeed anyone who even has aspirations to be one.

[oldbeefer]

The Poms generally don't win - that is usually down to the USA who's crews spend the best part of a year practising. But we do enjoy it (at least I did at Chantilly in ??'92)!

[cyclicmicky]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I have read some comments regarding events with the HCGB. I have travelled to some of these days over the last year ( in a friends turbine) as a guest of the HCGB and have always been welcomed by the members in attendance.

There has never been any show of elitism that I have noticed, and as a student pilot studying for my PPL(H) licence I have only received assistance and constructive direction from everybody that I have chatted to. At one event I even had a chance to (fly) a Lynx simulator- an opportunity, I hasten to add, that I refused so that the more qualified of the company on the day would make better use of!!- even experienced pilots crash!!.
I look forward to the championships at Heythrop Park, it is an impressive and comfortable hotel and the grounds are extensive to say the least. I visited the venue on the final day this year with another student pilot friend and my instructor, we were all made very welcome and had a wondeful day out, did anybody see the army crew "moon" their companion crew after the excellent torque turn they performed before leaving to return to base.
I hope the committee are not fazed by the comments made earlier in this thread and keep up their efforts to give us entertaining days out (not expensive at all) - you would spend more on a meal for two than most of the events. I hope to attain my licence in the near future and will apply the the HCGB for membership despite the earlier comments, and no!! I am not a millionaire either, just a normal run of the mill fellow next door

[Helihound]

I have been following this thread with interest for a while. I have been a member of the HCGB for a few years and have seen both sides of the points raised. I have been to several events and have seen no sign of elitism, but I only tend to go to the cheap ones anyway. It is true that there is within the club a clique of "hooray henries" but I don't go to the events that they favour so have never found this a problem. I guess this is normal in any similar organisation. It was interesting to see that in the latest edition of the new mag being produced by the ex editor of Rotortorque, there is a major article on the similarity between flying helicopters and playing polo. That says it all really.

I have only been once to the championships for an hour to watch, but any event that has as a major feature a black tie dinner on the Saturday night leaves me cold frankly. Personally I have no interest in competitive events like the Championships, but as I have an equal disinterest in the Olympics and all forms of sport then I am willing to accept that I may be in a minority.

Where I do think that there is a problem is in the tendency of the HCGB to keep its activities low key and not attempt to attract new members. In these days of ever increasing Eurorubbish, we need to provide effective lobbying and support to maintain our flying privileges. There are 3000 or so helo pilots in the UK, and the HCGB only has 450 members. They do almost nothing to recruit new members, preferring instead to keep it as a select group. We just cannot afford to do that these days, or our voice will never be heard. I am also a member of the PFA which has been going through similar upheavals over the last few years. They have now decided to rebrand their annual rally at Kemble as "Flying For Fun" to widen its appeal to all members of the aviation community. Where is the HCGB? None of the documentation from either body so far has even suggested an HCGB stand at the new event to drum up recruits and promote the club. I for one would happily volunteer to man the stand.

[FUll Skid]

:cool:

Heli hound may not have been reading Rotor Torque. Seems to me they do a good job representing heli pilots concerns - look at the floats issue this time last year. There was a very effective campaign against it, which worked! The Sec's page tells us about things we should worry about - like Europe, Eurocontrol and EASA, and the club seems represented in the right places to fight problems, which I think they do quite well.

Glad the horay henry Rotor Torque editor has gone!

and for what its worth I think the events are good too!

as for the World Championships, these guys are no fools, and no doubt there are interesting facts (as opposed to unsubstantiated rumours and gossip) that they'll share with us members when the time is right. After all, how many of us would want to discuss our ongoing business deals in public, and we wouldn't want the club to risk its funds in a financial nightmare would we!

[helicopter-redeye]

There are 3000 or so helo pilots in the UK, and the HCGB only has 450 members. They do almost nothing to recruit new members,



Just as an aside to this point, I only ever spoke to Pat Malone once and that conversation (on an AOPA matter) ended with ".. are you a member of HCGB", so maybe the times are a changing ??

I havn't returned the form (or the money) yet but if it is as valuable at representing the rotary club into the wider flying environment them I'll consider it an investment.

For everything else, there's AOPA ...

:cool:

[cyclicmicky]

As a matter of interest, and my inquiring nature, is anybody actually coming to the helichamps ??:8 :ok:

[Gordy]

In response to the post by "oldbeefer". The US does practice a lot when the military is involved. That was part of the problem in 92 because for once, half of the US team were civilians with no money or backing. So no the US did not win in 92.

[purple chopper]

Historically the Russians have dominated most of the previous world helicopter championships and much of this winning ability is due to many hours of practice they undertake. The British team have now started regular training events and the Swiss, German and Austrian teams will start training from the start of 2005.

In the last championships, held in Austria, competitors from: China, Japan, France, Germany, Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Austria, Great Britain, and Switzerland competed. The teams were predominantly civilian crews and a total of 60 crews competed during the five days.

I understand that as well as the above county’s Italy, Croatia, Ireland and Swedish are considering sending teams to the event in 2005.

[helifun]

Post deleted.



HCGB news is welcome in this forum. eg We publicise the annual championships, and we encouraged people to write to the CAA in support of Jeremy James' (successful) campaign opposing the proposed rules for cross-channel flights which would have adversely affected all private helicopter pilots, not just HCGB members.
However, bitching about people and the internal politics of the club are not welcome.

It seems as if you've never put yourself up for election to the committee. If as many members support your views as you believe, you should have a landslide victory if you stand at the next election. Encourage a few like-minded members to stand and you could transform the committee and make the club more to your liking.

In the meantime, please use the HCGB's own website for your campaign against the current proposals to exclude people with criminal records and/or your campaign against the committee in general.


Heliport

PS: It's up to you, but you and your campaign(s) might have more credibility if you try to be less petty and less personal in your attacks. Just a thought.

[cyclicmicky]

Well said Helifun,
a voice of sensibility at last.

Sorry,
That should read heliport- Not Helifun
Love and kisses
Micky:ok:

[northpoint]

Absolutely. Well said Heliport.
Helifun clearly has a string of personal issues here. Nobody asked him to make public statements slagging off a bunch of guys who by and large do a good job in running the HCGB so he shouldn't grumble when people take him to task and expose his prejudices.
Everyone is entitled to express their opinion and people will have respect for that opinion when it is based on fact not prejudice.

[CountryMember]

Just so everyone knows, I have only become aware of this thread and am not posting as multiple people. I shall read it and then comment.

[Bronx]

Very kind of you to post to tell us you'll be posting.
I guess folks will be waiting with baited breath for the oracle to pronounce.

"Just so everyone knows"?
Who cares?


Strange guy. :confused:

[CountryMember]

Post deleted.



Which part of "bitching about people and the internal politics of the club are not welcome" didn't you understand?


This thread is about the World Helicopter Championships 2005.
Use the HCGB's own website if you want to whinge about how the club is run.


Heliport

[DennisK]

The 2005 World Championships at Kemble.

Hi all heli fans out there,

Just to say I find it saddening to read the contentious nature of some of the posts on the forthcoming World Championships and the 'in fighting' taking place on the forum ...... HCGB rule changes and the back biting. All we want is a safe, well run event in the UK that we can be proud of. Having taken part in the three world champs held in the UK. The 2nd Champs at Middle Wallop 1973, the 6th at Castle Ashby in 1986 with the freestyle at Cranfield, the 1992 Wroughton event and the 11th Champs held at Aigen in Austria, I'm an interested party. albeit only in the freestyle section.

Organising anything on this scale is a daunting task and the 'few' HCGB guys who have taken it on without payment are to be massively thanked. But since we are talking about a 'World' championships, shouldn't we be thinking more upmarket in publicity terms. Just take a peek at any other area/sport in this league. F1 Grand Prix for example and the others. Even the humble darts champs beats our heli champs for publicity and exposure. (TV .... Embassy ... et al)

When I heard at Aigen that the 2005 champs were to come to the UK, I thought of the terrific publicity opportunities for our industry and the UK, but anything at that level would require professional, (ie paid for) organisation.

Something of the ilk of Harvey Goldsmith perhaps who organised the Blenhem Palace Airshow which ran like a swiss watch, and as far as I could tell, before a maximum capacity crowd.

But on the same tack, Glen at the revitalised Kemble Airfield is no slouch when it comes to organising airshows !! I have it from him personally that all he required from HCGB was to take the proceeds of the 'gate' and the resultant publicity in whatever areas he could muster. (In fact he is still planning to hold a Helicopter Airshow to coincide with the last day of the championships .... I have promised to fly the 'freestyle' for him)

I see the old chestnut/excuse of insurance has appeared which is a diversion. For insurance simply talk money !!!

And as another aside .. shame on the Ozzie for his 'pom bashing' The World Championships are an 'open' event and if he/she thinks he's as good as or better than than the last 2002 event winner, just enter in 2005 and show us.

But to get back to the subject and to be constructive. Cannot we look at placing any future event in professional hands thereby reaping the publicity benefit for our sometimes hard pressed industry. Helicopter hardware, Avionics, Heli Sales, Heli Engineering, Training Schools, CAA and NATS presence. Then Government involvement, Banks, Insurance and Finance Houses ... oh dear the list is endless.

P Pruners will know my major interest is the freestyle flying which always attracts the public/spectator interest. And of course if a good public attendance can be achieved. the floodgates open for the non aviation business participation above.

So I ask the question. Is that what the HCGB want ? I suspect not and if the answer is a confirmed 'no' then the event will remain as it has always been. A small 'clubby' affair which few care about and gives rise to more comments from our 'pommie basher.'

Thanks for reading my contribution. Any personal comments to my e mail. See you around the 2005 and best wishes for the 2005 World Helicopter Championships and their organisation.

DennisK

[headsethair]

Just so that the history is accurately recorded:

The campaign last winter to stop the "floats over water" change was actually successful because of this Forum. The HCGB magazine is published too infrequently to be fast enough to publicise such a campaign.
What in fact happened was that Jeremy James of HCGB wisely emailed members as soon as he heard of the Consultation document - and then a load of us fired things up on pprune. People like me got stats from the CAA for ditchings - and so it went on.

So well done to HCGB for emailing members - but well done to Rotorheads for giving us a widely read platform. If we had to rely on the HCGB website, the campaign would have failed.

[cyclicmicky]

Since everyone seems to be getting a litttle testy, here is a little ditty to lighten the proceedings.
:p
A military cargo plane, flying over a populated area, suddenly loses power and starts to nose down. The pilot tries to pull up, but with all their cargo, the plane is too heavy. So he yells to the soldiers in back to throw things out to make the plane lighter. They throw out a pistol. "Throw out more!" shouts the pilot. So they throw out a rifle. "More!" he cries again. They heave out a missile, and the pilot regains control.

He pulls out of the dive and lands safely at an airport. They get into a jeep and drive off. Pretty soon they meet a boy on the side of the road who's crying. They ask him why he's crying and he says "A pistol hit me on the head!"

They drive more and meet another boy who's crying even harder. Again they ask why and the boy says, "A rifle hit me on the head!"

They apologize and keep driving. They meet a boy on the sidewalk who's laughing hysterically. They ask him, "Kid, what's so funny?" The boy replies, "I sneezed and a house blew up!"

Ho Hum:ok:

[CountryMember]

What a farce this is! In this thread and others there are plenty of post slagging me off, almost by name. I reply with a gentle conciliatory email naming no one and it gets deleted. Heliport obviously has an axe to grind and is not interested in another point of view. Sounds like Pprune is just like HCGB, if you are liked then you are fine otherwise shut up, so I will.

[Heliport]

CountryMember

” Sounds like Pprune is just like HCGB, if you are liked then you are fine otherwise shut up, so I will.”

Don't be so silly. You found this thread two days after we'd reached the ‘Enough is enough’ point about HCGB internal politics. The decision applied to everyone.

In the post I deleted, you said you’ve been shunned by the club for reasons connected with your private life. If it's any comfort, you're welcome here. Rotorheads isn’t a private club so we take all-comers and, as as anonymous forum, know nothing about contributors, their characters or private lives.


The decision is final: No more bandwidth will be used to discuss the internal politics of the HCGB.

Heliport


Edit: Check your PM box.

[jerry712731]

Lets all get back on thread.
If the the championships are being held
1. Where ?
2. When ?
3. Who is organising them ?
4. How can we make them an event to be proud of ?
5. How can we help?

The helicopter community needs events that make Helicopters more accepted. The Image of Search and Rescue is great, but many people operate near small communities who put up with us. Anything that can help the helicopter be accepted, especially in the UK is important.

[cyclicmicky]

Amen to that Jerry!!:ok:

[CountryMember]

Post deleted, yet again.

Pursue your dispute with the HCGB on the HCGB website or anywhere else you care to post, but NOT ON THIS FORUM.

I am not prepared to waste any more time moderating discussion about some club's internal politics or the pros and cons of the way its committee conducts its affairs.


Warning:

Moderators' rulings are final.
If you fail to comply, you will not be allowed to post in this forum.


Heliport

[CountryMember]

I dont beleive it! That was a post about the WHC 2005!

[helifun]

Quote :

Rotorheads:
A haven for professional helicopter pilots to discuss the things that affect them.

[jerry712731]

Found this on the Kemble Website

12th World Helicopter Championships 2005


We regret to announce that the Helicopter Club of Great Britain (HCGB) has withdrawn from the agreement to stage the 2005 World Championships at Kemble. The only statement we have received from the HCGB in connection with the cancellation reads as follows:

“The proposal to hold the World Championships at Kemble was carefully considered by our Board, and we (HCGB) came to the conclusion that it was not financially or organisationally viable, due to the onerous burdens that would be place on us by the proposed contracts.”


In response, Kemble Airfield is deeply disappointed that the opportunity to stage this international event here in an appropriate setting has been lost and our sympathy really is for the HCGB member who has been working on this project for the last 18 months or more, and to our disappointed public. Despite what we feel is a lost opportunity we wish HCGB good luck with their event wherever they are to hold it.



The question I would like an answer to is....

Are the Chapionships being Held in the UK this year and where ?