Dicko tells islanders fly JQ or start your own airline

[DJ737]

From the Australian Financial Review 30/11

Qantas boss Geoff Dixon has politely suggested that the millionaire residents of Hamilton Island who do not like to travel with the riffraff on Jetstar should start their own airline.

The chief executive was responding to criticism in The Australian Financial Review by Hamilton Island's elite that described Qantas's low-cost carrier Jetstar as like "flying in a cattle truck".

"My heart goes out to those millionaires who are forced, when not reclining on their luxury yachts, to travel by air alongside their fellow Australians," Mr Dixon wrote in a letter to The AFR.

The wealthier inhabitants of Hamilton Island are furious at Qantas's decision to withdraw its full-service operation and replace it with Jetstar, which offers no food or allocated seating.

Some of the monied residents have suggested that Jetstar's cheap seats have lowered the tone of the prestigious resort by luring visitors who dress badly, shop on the cheap, prefer fish and chips on a bench to a la carte dining and cause domestic disputes on the island's main streets.

Mr Dixon said he felt "compassion" for the millionaires of Hamilton Island who had to travel with the general public, but pointed to an alternative.

"I can only suggest [they] start their own airline so they can be spared the indignity of quality cut-price travel and so that Jetstar's many happy customers can be spared the indignity of their company. Everybody will then be happy, including Qantas," Mr Dixon said.

Yachtsman Bob Oatley paid $200 million for the island last year and is investing another $180 million. Jetstar's cheap $29 tickets have contributed to hotel occupancy rates of 80 per cent.

No formal applications have been made for additional flights to Hamilton Island. Qantas only operates normal economy class on flights with its QantasLink arm from Cairns.

[Ultralights]

it amazes me how money can force people to loose touch with reality, and humanity! "im too rich to sit next to a a human!" oh the egos!

[sinala1]

Not agreeing with the stuck up people who made the comments regarding "people who dress badly, shop on the cheap, prefer fish and chips" etc etc, but I do agree there is a need for a full service airline to fly into HTI. I worked on the island for a year a few years back, and there is such a vast cross section of tourists who visit it - from backpackers to the very very rich.

Can I suggest though that the people who made those comments quoted above open their eyes and have a look at reality - HTI is promoted as a Family Island, and to feed a family of 4 at any of the islands restaurants is an expensive experience, and you are unlikely to get away from it for under $150 (which, for a family of 4 on a budget, $150 a night on food over say 6 nights on the island adds up very quickly). Nothing wrong with fish and chips on the beach or around the harbour - a very relaxing way to wile away an evening!!! It is these families that keep the island running, and keep the local businesses running - and keeping in mind that a lot of the locals own/run the businesses on the island that are not owned/run by Hamilton Island Enterprises, they would do well to not bag out their own customers!

[Mr. Hat]

I actually like this one from Dixon.

Finally the LCC is starting to bite a little.

Get used to it kids. You'll be able to see full service displays in aviation museums in years to come.

[Uncommon Sense]

Or from another angle...

If he owns the island / airstrip, tell QF/JQ they are not welcome anymore - and offer the service exclusively to Virgin? At least they do have allocated seating?

Who needs who more? (I admit I don't know the true answer to that one!)

[pullock]

Dickson is taking advantage of the Australian tall poppy syndrome to push the Jetstar bandwagon. Lets face it, there are some people out there who just don't want to be treated like a moron when they travel, and for those people - Jetstar isn’t the way to fly.

If you think it's elitist to want good service in air travel, when it is perfectly acceptable to choose a good restaurant, a nice suburb or a flashy car - yet it is not ok to desire to have the choice of a good airline service?

I will bet Dickson flies business class and wouldn’t often lower himself from the chairman’s lounge to the plain old Qantas club or even dare I say it a boarding lounge, and I bet where he has the choice to fly QF or JQ he takes QF business class. How hypocritical is it therefore for him to expect his customers at his own status in life to accept anything less.

I hope that they do start a quality service airline so that I can fly with them.

[jakethemuss]

The following was relayed to me by a party who would know, and in my opinion GD appears a little contradictory.

Picture the scene:

GD in Singapore wanting to board QF service to Sydney but informed that First Class is full. Not impressed as his entitlement as a Senior Qantas Executive (This was about 7 years ago, prior to the promotion) was for First Class.

What does any responsible Airline Executive do in this situation?

Not sure. But Geoff took himself and his bags around to the Gulf Air counter and paid approximately $7000 at the time for a First Class seat, as was his ENTITLEMENT and booked it to the company.

This is my recollection of the story and in my opinion shows a complete 180 degree offset to his current statements.

[Kaptin M]

What an arrogant reply from one whose snout is into the QANTAS trough to the tune of $6.1 million dollars per annum!

He needs to remember (for the sake of QANTAS, and the QF employees, and shareholders) that "those millionaires who are forced, when not reclining on their luxury yachts, to travel by air alongside their fellow Australians", also travel to other destinations besides HTI, and may well elect to spend their First or Business Class fares on QF's competitors, because of Dixon's jibe at them.

[Wirraway]

Wed "Daily Telegraph"

Snobs in paradise
By HEATH ASTON and PAUL KENT
December 1, 2004

IT'S BOAT shoes versus thongs at 10 paces on Queensland's Hamilton Island where budget airline Jetstar and its customers are ruffling the feathers of millionaire residents and management.

As thousands of tourists jet in for as little as $29 to soak up the once exclusive sun, enraged Hamilton Island home owners say the future of the island is under threat.

They say since Qantas stopped services to make way for Jetstar as sole operator in May, more people but less money has been brought to the island.

While denying this is an issue of class, most residents have a story at hand of tourists cramming into rooms, which come at a minimum $256 a night, or living off food brought in from the mainland. On Hamilton a stubby of beer costs $6.

There is even suggestions of an upsurge in crime and graffiti on the island and whispers of the term "yobbo".

But Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon seems to think it's just a case of snobbery.

"It must be dreadful for the secluded elite of Hamilton Island [including, apparently, its management and owners] to observe ordinary holidaymakers enjoying themselves and boosting the local economy," he said in an open letter responding to claims that Jetstar had brought a new style of "cattle class" to residents and tourists alike.

In angry response to Dixon's word, Hamilton Island resident Nick Ross – the man who donated his kidney to Kerry Packer – said the airline boss would have no idea what it was like to have Jetstar as his only mode of travel.

He said the airline had been hoisted on to Hamilton Island by Qantas, rendering useless his long-time membership of the Qantas frequent flyer club.

Other residents have complained so bitterly about the mad rush for seats on Jetstar, where no seat numbers are allocated, that the airline has changed its check-in system.

Jetstar chief executive Alan Joyce said a colour-coded system had been adopted to make the seating situation more "seamless".

Wayne Kirkpatrick, who runs the island on behalf of billionaire owner and former Rosemount Wine operator Bob Oatley, rejected that a culture of snobbery existed on Hamilton.

"Our objective has always been to have a quality product. I don't know that upmarket is the correct description, certainly that's what Bob Oatley is committed to," he said. "But that in no way should mean pretentiousness or snobbery, that's not the case at all."

Mr Ross said Jetstar needed to warn customers about Hamilton Island before they arrived, to avoid some people wandering around looking for cheap accommodation when none was available.

"It sounds elitist but it is a very real problem," Mr Ross said.

"The airline is promoting these deals but not explaining to people that when you get there there's nowhere you can get cheap food or drinks.

"Jetstar might be bringing people in but it's bringing in people who aren't spending any money.

==========================================

[Sunfish]

Who owns the airstrip? I have a feeling it might not be open slather for the residents to "Start another airline" even if they wanted to. I also suspect VB might jump at the chance.

Dixon is taking a cheap and obvious shot which I suspect he may one day regret.

Hammy Island is also a charter base for yachts as well as the airport for Hayman Island and a few other places. I'm not sure that I'd want to fly J* to Hammy if I can get in to proserpine or somewhere else via a better service.

By the way, does anyone remember the "Old" Hayman before it was "upgraded"? Best fringe benefit of all!!! I loved that place!:{ :{ :{

[Johhny Utah]

I think that the largest gripe that the operator(s) of the Island might have can best be shown by the following:

"Jetstar might be bringing people in but it's bringing in people who aren't spending any money.

Out of interest, how many $29 tickets have there been available on the route in question? From my research (watching prices carefully as I'm due to fly up there for a wedding next Mar) $29 tickets aren't available on the Syd-Hamilton Island route. The cheapest fares on offer appear to be $189 each way Jet Saver fares, with a Jet Flex ticket worth $415 each way - a far cry from the
thousands of tourists [who] jet in for as little as $29 to soak up the once exclusive sun

The Australian public voted with their feet for the likes of JetStar, and as such LCC's such as JetStar & Virgin Blue are the standard mode of travel. If the wealthy on Hamilton Island/Island operators are so enraged then market forces (of supply & demand) will eventually see a new operator step in to provide the required service (and no, I don't think that the people who are furious with JetStar will be any happier with Virgin Blue) :rolleyes:

[puff]

Seems like Nick Ross was well compensated for his kidney and helicopter flying to be living on Hammo! Good on em! Could think of worse places to retire

Question to be asked is does Dixon fly Jetstar up the back with the punters, or only flies First/Business class with his 'millionaire buddies'

[Kaptin M]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there an article on this forum a couple of months ago, about GOD trying to get a friend/relation (his daughter?) into Business Class and attempting to bump a full-fare pax?
The search engine hasn't turned anything up on it, so can someone refresh my memory, please.

[jettlager]

I know of an instance where a two class aircraft [without first class] has been substituted at the last moment for a 3 class aircraft without explanation.

Coincidence I'm sure that geoff dixon is on board.

Jettlager

[notmyC150v2]

The cancellation of two class flights into HI was a disgraceful and arrogant move from Q.

Forget the alleged "millionnaires" on HI for the moment and picture this, a celebrity or high profile business person from the USA books a two week holiday on Hayman Island in one of their suites ($2,500 per night avg). They fly to Aust in First Class then have to travel cattle class (without even allocated seating) to HI before a first class ferry trip to Hayman.

It's bad enough now that they can at least warn guests that superior service is no longer available for the domestic leg of their travel. But when Q cancelled the flights without notice and guests found out on the day of their travel. Well its just rude don't you think? And if said person wanted seclusion and privacy for a little while what do you reckon the chances are that they will decide to go somewhere else for their holiday instead.

And as for Dixon's open letter, what a wonderful way to describe people who have by and large worked their a@ses off for a long time and can now enjoy the rewards. If they are willing to pay for superior service why is it too much to give it to them? I never saw an empty Business Class seat on any of my trips to Hamilton Island so they can't say the service was not utilised.:mad:

[MoFo]

Dicko is a rich man from humble beginnings.

He finds himself wallowing in money, but verbally defending the ordinary man in the street, who only dreams of his wealth.

I wonder if any of the white shoe brigade on Hammo are in his network of business associates. I don't think anyone should take any of this seriously. They are probably having a laugh with Geofffrey over a glass of Bolinger.

[pantyripper]

Ahhh the memories on Hamo, could say more but....

[Dogslay]

I hope those "millionaires" take their money and spend it on anything but Qantas. The arrogant bastard!!!

[slice]

notmyc150v2 - if you are paying $2500 per night for a suite I would say you would be in the 'charter a private jet' league.

Is this not a situation where a flexjet (netjets?) arrangement might come into its own ?

[notmyC150v2]

Slice,

I don't honestly know whether they could or would want to charter a private jet. But I am relatively sure that chartering a Jet is just a tad more expensive than the old business class ticket.

And while there is only a relatively small price differential between a business class seat and a J* seat the difference in customer service is poles apart. Why should they have to look at chartering anything for decent service???

[Capt Claret]

Perhaps if there was sufficient demand to justify a two class service to HM, then Qantas would still be doing it?

It sounds similar to the squeals of angst from many regional towns throughout Australia, such as Tamworth and Dubbo, who want a jet service but don't have the pax numbers to support it, then claim Ansett (then) or QF are selling them down the river, simply because they won't provide a charitable service.

[Sunfish]

Ahhhhh! Memories - 200 drunken yachties singing "living next door to Alice" at 11.00pm. Race week - never again, my liver wouldn't stand it.

[OZ Junglejet]

Anyone know why Alliance Airlines had an F100 at Hamo a few weeks back?

Didn't Alliance operate charter flights to the island last summer.

Maybe those on the island will have their own airline soon.

[Kaptin M]

Solution: The owner(s) of Hamilton Island remove QANTAS & Jet Star's landing approval, and set up their OWN aircraft - probably only 2 - to operate a 2 class service into HTI from (say) SYD, MEL, & BNE!

[sinala1]

Solution: The owner(s) of Hamilton Island remove QANTAS & Jet Star's landing approval, and set up their OWN aircraft - probably only 2 - to operate a 2 class service into HTI from (say) SYD, MEL, & BNE!
Kaptin thats a great idea - truly it is - but would they be able to offer a service that is affordable to the majority of every day australians/tourists, yet a level of service (eg business class cabin) that is desired by the "elitists"?

Would be an interesting case study...

[rosscoe]

I think half the problem here is that there is no option.

I would prefer to pay the extra to travel with Qantas, either economy or business, but no other choice than to travel J*.

And although I work on Hammo, I don't live there and am not a millionare.

Yes I could fly virgin out of Prossie but the service is still basically the same ie cattle class.

While Qantas was operating 2 class flights it was well utilised and the change to J* has probably increased loading by about 2% average.

Best fare out of Hammo I've had was $45 one way to BN, have not seen anything cheap of late probably because all loadings are high.

[Watchdog]

Kaptin,
problem is they'd go broke in about a week :suspect:

[Eastwest Loco]

Pardon my apparent snobbery, but this little black duck (pull your horns in Woomera a the little statement!!!) prefers and continues to fly QF mainline.

How one can serve one of the finest 5 star resorts in Australia - ie: Hayman and the 4-5 star properties on Hammo itself with a bargain basement carrier amazes me.

Sure it is a lesiure market, but maybe the presentation of the service could use some normalisation. Off the J class USD7000 seat from LAX and into Southwest on valium? Great adverts for North Queensland tourism!!

I just spent 3 lovely nights courtey of QF holidays in Cape Tribulation, and went North in J and South in Y. Both experiences were excellent, and most enjoyable.

Imagine starting and finishing your Australian experience stuffed in like a sardine and running to get a seat,

I just wish this Irish twit would slink back to Ryanair.

Best all

EWL

[HAMO]

Having worked closely on Hamo with QF, I can assure you the J class seats were NOT heavily used. Those pax that were in J had usually got there by upgrading with their frequent flyer points. Anyway, in my time there, the 737s only operated Fr/Sat/Sun with the direct flight from MEL. All the others were 717 services with QFlink.

Dont think the issue is all about having J class, but rather the full service concept - we very rarely had complaints about the 717 service, and pax generally preferred it over the older 733s

[notmyC150v2]

Looks like Today Tonight (New Idea with moving pictures) on channel 7 is going to give a spray to anyone wanting service with their travel tonight.

They are advertising the story as "elite millionnaires who do not want to travel with ordinary Australians". Real Journalism at work:hmm: :hmm: :yuk:

[Uncommon Sense]

CH7?

No real impact.

Preaching to the great unwashed who elected for TV to do their thinking for them long ago.

[Oz Ocker]

May-be Dicko oughta keep 'is gob shut!
If e feels like that about Hammo, why doesn't 'e do it ter all er Qantas - an why doesn't E drive a bl@@dy Holden insteada oner them expensive fancy forain imports?

[Don Esson]

For EWL,

Iy's a shame that one of your your invariably sensible and logical posts ends in such a disparaging way. Apart from agreeing with most of what you say, the last comment about Jet*s CEO is not only unwarranted but also I think factually incorrect on a couple of grounds. He is far from being a 'twit' - if we had just half his intellect we would be doing better things than frequenting these forums. He needn't slink back to Ryanair as he never came from there. Yes, he is Irish and reportedly has or had some ex Ryanair people working for him but he did time with Aer Lingus. It is very diffictult to confuse Aer Lingus with Ryanair. Lastly, the poor fellow is just doing his job like the rest of us. Realistically, would you have acted much differently if you were to swap places?

Have a nice evening
:O

[Eastwest Loco]

Oh yes Don. No wonder we drink. I accept what you say, and will admit to being too harsh without actually having met the man and discussed his theories with him.

I accept I have made an unfair call, but still do no accept the concept or the repercussions for various markets it may have. inertia is a strong foce, and I will admit it is strong in me with things we all grew up with. Change for the sake of change is something I have trouble with.

However, there is a slightly messy but effective backdoor into Hamo. A little research reveals one can go via Cairns and pick up the seat allocated Dash out of Cairns.

This wil lbe more acceptable to the high dollar International tourists going for the 5 star holiday. They are used to single class allocated flights with normal baggage transhipment, particularly in the US and Japanese markets on short haul.

My worry has never been the bleating of the locals over the "quality" of the passengers being delivered into their midst - tourist destination - LIVE WITH IT!!! My main concern has been with corporates who live in the area and fly overseas from there and are inconvenienced with non-connectivity within the one group and high yield retired people going in for the 5 star holiday.

Our mate at JQ may have been a world beater at Aer Lingus and Ryan, but the single sector and make your own arrangements sector theory is not a good marketing tool in this airspace and sidelines many sectors of the market as unwanted and irrelevant.

Best all

EWL

[Kaptin M]

If you're headed off to Hammo for some R&R, then why not do it the way some of my mates (Canadian, Japanese, Mexican, Hungarian, Oz) have?
Take a bare-boat charter yacht, and sail across in luxury, from Cairns!!
They had a great time (from the video footage I've seen), sipping champagne, swimming, snorkelling, and enjoying the Whitsundays.............and the cost - when split between them - would have to be faaaar less than the extra they'd pay for a J Class seat, had they flown.

If time ISN'T of the essence, take your time!

[Eastwest Loco]

A great deal of good sense there Captin.

The older I get the more I realise how important disconnecting yourself and MAKING the time is tantamount to survival.

The more you flog yourself for perceived goals, the more you need the time-outs.

Until I took the 4 nights SIN and 11 nights DPS, I didn't realise how shagged I was.

By the way - got the Conrad in SIN for SGD114.00 ++ and the Ramada bintang in Bali for USD50 including taxes service and full brekky. If any of you want me to book this for you (non commissionable but always pleased to help) I can do this through the GDS and you just produce ID on arrival.

Much easier than farting around with staff travel department. In Oz 1800 067207 and from overseas +61 364 233244.

Happy to check out other destinations for you too.

Best regards

Ron

EWL

[Yusef Danet]

Awful nice offer, there EWL, noted with thanks.

If this is to be a rumour forum, it would seem that an inordinate number of ground crew have been training with VB's handler at Mackay, even considering their new schedule. What possible airport in the Mackay region could VB be planning to service.... one with a recently voided contract of exclusivity with QF perhaps?